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Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:33 pm
by The Cat
If we simply google, we find a lot of plagiarized work into the Koran...

Sam Shamoun
http://www.answeringislam.net/Responses ... rizing.htm
YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0fOrwtWxXM
Joseph Smith
http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/quran9e.htm
Qur'an- sura 5:31:
"Then Allah sent a raven, who cratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. 'Woe is me!' said he; 'Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?' Then he became full of regrets."

Targum of Jonathan-ben-Uzziah:
"Adam and Eve, sitting by the corpse, wept not knowing what to do, for they had as yet no knowledge of burial. A raven came up, took the dead body of its fellow, and having scratched at the earth, buried it thus before their eyes. Adam said, 'Let us follow the example of the raven,'

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In sura 3:35-37 we find the story of Mary, her father Imran, and the priest Zachariah.

The Proto-Evangelion's James the Lesser:
"And Anna (wife of Joachim) answered, 'As the Lord my God liveth, whatever I bring forth, whether it be male or female, I will devote it to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in holy things, during its whole life'...and called her name Mary...And the high-priest received her; and blessed her, and said, 'Mary, the Lord God hath magnified thy name to all generations, and to the very end of time by thee will the Lord shew his redemption to the children of Israel."

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a.The Palm Tree
In sura 19:22-26 we read the story of Mary, the baby Jesus, the Palm Tree, and the rivulet which flows below it. This story is not found in the Biblical account, but first appeared in an apocryphal fable of the second century C.E. (see lower passage; from The Lost Books of the Bible, New York, Bell Publishing Co., 1979, pg.38). Notice the similarities between the two accounts.

The Lost Books of the Bible:
Now on the third day after Mary was wearied in the desert by the heat, she asked Joseph to rest for a little under the shade of a Palm Tree. Then Mary looking up and seeing its branches laden with fruit (dates) said, 'I desire if it were possible to have some fruit.' Just then the child Jesus looked up (from below) with a cheerful smile, and said to the Palm Tree, 'Send down some fruit.' Immediately the tree bent itself (toward her) and so they ate. Then Jesus said, 'O Palm Tree, arise; be one of my Father's trees in Paradise, but with thy roots open the fountain (rivulet) beneath thee and bring water flowing from that fount.'

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In the same sura 19.29-33 we find that the baby Jesus can talk. Nowhere in any of the gospels do we find the baby Jesus talking.

The first Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ:
"... Jesus spake even when he was in the cradle, and said to his mother: 'Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God. That word which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel...'

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Creating birds from clay
Jesus, according to sura 3:49 breathed life into birds of clay. The source for this Qur'anic fiction is found in the earlier Thomas' Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, another apocryphal fable from the 2nd century:

Thomas' Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ:
"Then he took from the bank of the stream some soft clay, and formed out of it twelve sparrows...Then Jesus clapping together the palms of his hands called to the sparrows, and said to them: 'Go, fly away.'"

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a. Seven Heavens and Seven Hells
In suras 15:43-44 and 17:44 we find reference to the seven hells and the seven heavens. Without asking where these seven heavens and hells are located, it will be helpful to note that the same number of hells and heavens can be found in the tradition called Jagigah and Zuhal.

b. Mi'raj
In sura 17:1 we have the report of Muhammad's journey by night from the Sacred mosque to the farthest mosque. From later traditions we know this aya is referring to Muhammad ascending up to the 7th Heaven, after a miraculous night journey (the Mi'raj) from Mecca to Jerusalem, on a "horse" called Buraq.

More detail is furnished us in the Jewish Mishkat al Masabih. We can trace the story back to a fictitious book called The Testament of Abraham, written around 200 B.C., in Egypt, and then translated into Greek and Arabic.

Another account is that of The Secrets of Enoch, which predates Muhammad by four centuries. In 1:4-10 and 2:1 we read:
"On the first day of the month I was in my house and was resting on my couch and slept and when I was asleep great distress came up into my heart and there appeared two men. They were standing at my couch and called me by name and I arose from my sleep. Have courage, Enoch, do not fear; The Eternal God sent us to thee. Thou shalt today ascend with us into heaven. The angels took him on their wings and bore him up to the first heaven."

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c. Hell
The Qur'anic description of Hell resembles the descriptions of hell in the Homilies of Ephraim, a Nestorian preacher of the sixth century (Glubb, pg.36)

d. Balance
The author of the Qur'an in suras 42:17 and 101:6-9, utilized The Testament of Abraham to teach that a scale or balance will be used on the day of judgment to weigh good and bad deeds in order to determine whether one goes to heaven or to hell.

e. Paradise
The description of Paradise in suras 55:56-58 and 56:22-24,35-37, which speak of the righteous being rewarded with wide-eyed houris who have eyes like pearls, has interesting parallels in the Zoroastrian religion of Persia, where the name for the maidens is not houris, but Paaris.

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Harut and Marut
In sura 2:102 the two angels Harut and Marut are mentioned. Who exactly are these two characters? While Yusuf Ali believes these were angels who lived in Babylon, historical records show us that they were idols which were worshipped in Armenia. Their existence was inspired by Marut, the Hindu god of the wind. We find this story related in the Talmud (Midrash Yalzut, chapter 44).

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The Cave of the Seven Sleepers
The story which was mentioned in an earlier section of this paper, concerning the seven sleepers and a dog who slept for 309 years in a cave, is found in sura 18:9-25. It has a striking resemblance to a book called The Story of Martyrs, by Gregory of Tours. In this account it is a legendary tale of Christians who were under persecution, and who fell asleep in a cave for 200 years.

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The Sirat
Though not mentioned in the Qur'an by name, the bridge over which all must pass to their final destiny is referred to in sura 19:71. As in the case of the Mi'raj, we must go to the Hadiths to find out what the Sirat really is. And when we do, we wonder from whence such an idea originated. We don't need to look far, for a similar bridge leading over the deep gulf of hell to Paradise is called Chinavad (the connecting link) in the Zoroastrian book Dinkart.

Conclusion:
We were astonished at how an "eternal divine document of God" could contain within its text not only abrogations of itself, but errors which give doubt to its entire veracity. If God's word is to retain its integrity, it must remain above suspicion. Even the Qur'an demands such a standard. In sura 4:82 we read, "Do they not consider the Qur'an? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancies" (sura 4:82). The testimony of the material we have covered here convicts the Qur'an of failing in the very claims it purports to uphold, and sustain. This bodes ill for its claim to inspiration, while negating any hope of any recognized authority.

Quran plagiarized Galen the Greek on embryology
http://www.answering-islam.org/Response ... embryo.htm

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:51 pm
by Pragmatist
This was all done deliberately by allah's inventor Mohammad in an attempt to give some respectability and legality to his CULT. Unfortunately while plagiarizing he also made many mistakes so the solution thought up by this NPD suffering fool was to claim that the original books had been corrupted. His lack of logical ability also meant that he could now make ridiculous claims for the book his sock puppet allah supposedly dictated that he allah would protect it from corruption. Which of course raises the logical question' If allah can protect the Krap Kran from corruption why could he not protect his previous works from corruption' to which Mohammad replied KILL HIM. Well Old Mo couldn't have anyone spoil his party could he and the 20% profit was coming in handy.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:13 pm
by The Cat
In the old forum I found this from Khalil...

Allah plagiarized... the Pharaoh.
In 5.33 (112th)
5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

plagiarizing 20.71 (45th)
20:71 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he is your chief who taught you magic. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees, and ye shall know for certain which of us hath sterner and more lasting punishment.

Then about punishing 'mischiefs in the land', from 7.127 (39th).
7:127 The chiefs of Pharaoh's people said: (O King), wilt thou suffer Moses and his people to make mischief in the land, and flout thee and thy gods ? He said: We will slay their sons and spare their women, for lo! we are in power over them.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:58 am
by Cassie
Muslims are unperturbed by the blatant plagiarism in the Quran. They don't care that Muhammad mistook a Roman myth or the words of a Rabbi as the word of God. They don't care that Muhammad thought that the later apocryphal texts (invented by men) were actual historical events. A critical and objective mind is essential to see that these are evidence of the fraud that is Islam. It is too much to expect Muslim minds to be critical and objective.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:55 am
by Pragmatist
Cassie wrote:Muslims are unperturbed by the blatant plagiarism in the Quran. They don't care that Muhammad mistook a Roman myth or the words of a Rabbi as the word of God. They don't care that Muhammad thought that the later apocryphal texts (invented by men) were actual historical events. A critical and objective mind is essential to see that these are evidence of the fraud that is Islam. It is too much to expect Muslim minds to be critical and objective.


Or LOGICAL too but they do a great HYPOCRITICAL :*) :*) :*)

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:46 pm
by Ibn Rushd
Excellent stuff Cat.

I was thinking of doing some work on a similar theme: letter writing of Jesus to Abgar the Great, and letter writing of Muh. to an Ethiopian monarch. I think these have the same source.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:15 pm
by The Cat
Thanks, Ibn Rushd.
You and I share a passion for anthropology and I'm committed, ever since Mircea Eliade, to comparative religions.

You should like this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_and_the_Qur'an

But it's of course a bit of the iceberg. An important book to read would be The Book Of Enoch 1 & 2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Enoch

A closer look at the Ethiopian Christian Church is also required.

Oh, the story of Satan refusing to bow to Adam is also plagiarized from the apocryphal Jewish work: Life of Adam & 1_Enoch!
In 2_Enoch we find a similar description to that of Muhammad's journey into the levels of heaven (Mir'aj).

The obvious plagiary of many parts of the Koran is not something Muslims want to discuss...

Bye.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:02 pm
by yeezevee
This is another extremely important folder from you to educate the readers about Islam dear Cat..

I wish you could color contrast verses from Q'uran and the Scripture from original source these quranic writers plagiarized

with best wishes
yeezevee

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:33 pm
by Ibn Rushd
Also the journey to heaven is a copy of the Midrashic story of Moses' own trip. There is a similar one in Zoroastrian texts from the 5th-8th century. Someone went to heaven to ask what was happening. It's printed in Mary Boyce's Textual Sources for the Study of Z.. I find the Late Antiquity period to be the most fruitful in researches because so much happened that has an effect today. Too bad not more ppl study it today, everyone likes 20th century, ancient Greece, medieval Europe, etc., but not that time from 100AD-850AD.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:26 pm
by Ibn Rushd
I found this at the bottom of the Legends link you gave.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:10 am
by The Cat
Ibn Rushd wrote:I found this at the bottom of the Legends link you gave.

Hi Ibn Rushd.
There's no way that Arabic was a formed written language in the 7th century. Many proper names come directly from Syriac,
not even from Hebrew, most of the time. So the oldest Koran we possess are written in the Kufi script, with the possible
exception of the Yemeni (Sana'a) manuscript, I don't know much about. In the case of the virgins though, Luxenberg erred.

Much I could gathered on this is there:

Was the Qur'an originally in Arabic?
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39753
In Resource Center: Was the Qur'an first in Arabic?
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39999

To yeezevee:
Time given I'll work something from this in the Resource Center.
But time is gonna be a problem for a long while.
If you or Ibn Rushd want to go ahead with it, please do...
Bye.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:24 am
by Ibn Rushd
How did Luxenberg err on the case of virgins? I was more convinced with the grapes idea because it fit in with current Syriac views on paradise. It also agrees with Wansbrough's Quranic Studies which showed that the motifs in the Quran on heaven were similar to themselves, and seemed to have an outside source. I'll have to re-read his sections.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:45 pm
by antineoETC
Ibn Rushd wrote:How did Luxenberg err on the case of virgins? I was more convinced with the grapes idea because it fit in with current Syriac views on paradise.


However, the "heaving-breasted" "doe-eyed" houris idea fitted with sex-starved bedouins ideas of paradise!

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:50 pm
by The Cat
Ibn Rushd wrote:How did Luxenberg err on the case of virgins? I was more convinced with the grapes idea because it fit in with current Syriac views on paradise. It also agrees with Wansbrough's Quranic Studies which showed that the motifs in the Quran on heaven were similar to themselves, and seemed to have an outside source. I'll have to re-read his sections.

It has been recently discussed...
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=820

bye...

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:31 pm
by marduk
The story of the seven sleepers is interesting, because we know the actual dates involved and can easily compare them with those stated in the Quran.

The Seven Sleepers, commonly called the "Seven Sleepers of Ephesus", refers to a group of Christian youths who allegedly hid inside a cave outside the city of Ephesus around 250 AD, to escape a persecution of Christians being conducted during the reign of the Roman emperor Decius. Having fallen asleep inside the cave, they purportedly awoke approximately 150-200 years later during the reign of Theodosius II, following which they were reportedly seen by the people of the now-Christian city before dying. An outline of this tale appears in Gregory of Tours (b. 538, d. 594), and in Paul the Deacon's (b. 720, d. 799) History of the Lombards. The best-known Western version of the story appears in Jacobus de Voragine's Golden Legend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sleepers


From the same page;

Quran

[18:25] They stayed in their cave three hundred years, increased by nine. [18:26] Say, "GOD is the best knower of how long they stayed there." He knows all secrets in the heavens and the earth. By His grace you can see; by His grace you can hear. There is none beside Him as Lord and Master, and He never permits any partners to share in His kingship."


Let's do some math. 250 AD plus 309 years= 559 AD.

Another quote from the page;

Syriac origins

The story appeared in several Syriac sources before Gregory's lifetime. It was retold by Symeon Metaphrastes. Another Syriac version is printed in Land's Anecdota, iii. 87ff; see also Barhebraeus, Chron. eccles. i. 142ff., and cf Assemani, Bib. Or. i. 335ff.

The Seven Sleepers form the subject of a homily in verse by the Edessan poet Jacob of Saruq ("Sarugh") (died 521), which was published in the Acta Sanctorum. Another 6th-century version, in a Syrian manuscript in the British Museum (Cat. Syr. Mss, p. 1090), gives eight sleepers. There are considerable variations as to their names.


So the story was reported by a man who died in 521 AD, 38 years before Muhammad says the sleepers were resurrected. How did he know the story before it had taken place? Roman Emperor Decius only ruled from 249-251 AD, so nobody can say that maybe the sleepers went in the cave very early in Decius' rule.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:30 pm
by Connedbymo+co
Great thread! :)

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:13 am
by Al-Ansari
Bismillah,
Regardless of the actual existence of so called sources during Prophet's PBUH time, this is not called plagiarization. History was same for Allah and all those who wrote in the field. If somehow an incident mentioned by Qur'an, is found to be present in a book before the revelation of Qur'an, that doesn't mean Allah copied it, Na'udhu billah. There might be several people who could have written or orally narrated the incident of Abel and Cain, since the time of incident. Allah (subhahu wa ta'ala) is mere relating an incident for the rememberance of mankind. Further, Allah didn't say in His Book that such and such incident was not known by anyone in history. Did he? Think befor writing. It is like i said that wtc was attacked on 11th of september, and you guys came up saying that i plagiarized it because the date was already published by some news paper years ago.

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:02 am
by pr126
@Al-Ansari

In case you missed it on an other thread:

Anything New in the Quran?

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:08 am
by Al-Ansari
Probably, you didn't get what i was saying. Anyways...

Re: Allah plagiarized

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:48 am
by pr126
@ Al-Ansari
You may be wondering why Muhammad based his new religion on old Bible stories, and why he found it necessary to alter them. Muslim scholars insist that the characters and events, at least up to the point of departure, are similar because Yahweh and Allah are the same god. Unfortunately, that makes less sense than the sun falling out of a chariot and angelic wings blotting out the moon. If Allah is Yahweh, simply translate the Old Covenant into Arabic and be done with it. We have proved that the Bible has not changed with the passage of time, so, if it was divinely inspired - as Muhammad claims - it must still be true.


source