"Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

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MesMorial
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"Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by MesMorial »

This is for the purpose of clarification and providing Qur'anic interpretation. Do not think of it as promoting the Qur'an rather than seeing if the Qur'an can be explained (necessary in order for people to give up hadith).

The Qur'an does after all prohibit hadith.


***


MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM (with a note on polygamy)
Spoiler! :
Adultery/fornication is not allowed (4:15-16, 5:5, 17:32, 24:2-3, 24:30, 25:68). However, those whom your oaths of care possess are valid for (consensual) sex.

War-captives should be treated well and released when possible (2:177, 4:25, 4:36, 5:89, 16:71, 24:33, 47:4, 90:13).

“Ma Malakat Aymanukum” translates to “what your oaths (of care) possess”. In the Qur’an, it refers to prisoners-of-war.

It is pre-supposed that sexual prisoners-of-war are females of marriageable age (e.g. 4:3). Group-sex with them would be prohibited since they would be exposing themselves to each other, thereby violating the restrictions between carer and captive.

Women can also possess MMA, but the Qur’an often addresses males exclusively (e.g. 4:19-25) thus for reasons of health/pregnancy they would not be allowed to have sex with them. Men are maintainers of women (4:34) and have superior authority (2:228, 24:31), therefore men can decide who gets MMA and to what degree. Moreover, men are the fighters and thus they would take them.

Here are the verses pertaining to them:


“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three or four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then only one or what your oaths possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.” (4:3)


“O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their oaths possess so that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (33:50)


“It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your oaths possess. Allah is Watchful over all things.” (33:52)


“Except before their mates or those whom their oaths possess, for they surely are not blameable.” (23:6)


“Except in the case of their wives or those whom their oaths possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed.” (70:30)


“And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your oaths possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (4:25)


“And let those who do not find the means to marry refrain (from doing so) until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your oaths possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (24:33)


“And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or those whom their oaths possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.” (24:31)


“There is no blame on them in respect of their fathers, nor their brothers, nor their brothers' sons, nor their sisters' sons nor their own women, nor of what their oaths possess; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is a witness of all things.” (33:55)


“O you who believe! let those whom your oaths possess and those of you who have not attained to puberty ask permission of you three times; before the morning prayer, and when you put off your clothes at midday in summer, and after the prayer of the nightfall; these are three times of privacy for you; neither is it a sin for you nor for them besides these, some of you must go round about (waiting) upon others; thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (24:58)


“And serve Allah and do not associate anything with Him and be good to the parents and to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the neighbour of (your) kin and the alien neighbour, and the companion in a journey and the wayfarer and those whom your oaths possess; surely Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful.” (4:36)


“And Allah has made some of you excel others in the means of subsistence, so those who are made to excel do not give away their sustenance to those whom their oaths possess so that they should be equal therein; is it then the favour of Allah which they deny?” (16:71)


“He sets forth to you a parable relating to yourselves: Have you among those whom your oaths possess partners in what We have given you for sustenance, so that with respect to it you are alike; you fear them as you fear each other? Thus do We make the communications distinct for a people who understand.” (30:28)


“And all married women except those whom your oaths possess; (this is) Allah’s ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (4:24)


NOTE ON POLYGAMY

Polygamy is restricted to wartime situations where there are orphans who cannot be adequately cared for outside marriage (i.e. there may be more women than men). Muslim men may marry up to four if necessary, but the Qur’an predicts that this will result in marital dissonance (4:129). Thus it is neither encouraged nor considered as socially palatable. Only under similar conditions would an Islamic society permit it.

Women cannot commit polygamy:


“(Forbidden to you are) all married women…” (4:24)


This is because men are considered “bread-winners” (4:34).

However, as per 33:52, people may be in sexual relationships with their spouse and any number of their MMA (at the same time).

FROM A CONVERSATION ABOUT TEMPORARY MARRIAGE
Spoiler! :
The Qur’an does not mention “mut’a” (temporary/pleasure marriage) and thus the fact that Shi’ite humans call marriage-for-sex “pleasure marriage” proves nothing.

If it is forbidden to use it for enjoyment, what is its purpose? 2:235 clearly allows males and females to talk to each other alone (nicely). They could go to the movies together. Besides, they can certainly be together with their parents, and so the only excuse for “temporary marriage” is a “sex contest”. Muslims often blame the West for relationship break-ups, but these “experiments” are no better.

Since mut’a is never mentioned in the Qur’an, one must derive it from 4:24. This verse only says that dowry should be paid after sex, and after the obligation (is paid) there is no blame for what is agreed on. This is mistaken as a license for free-divorce after sex. If they do not have sex and no dowry was appointed, what is the point? That is just being alone together where if one pays enough, they can have sex. If dowry is prescribed but there is no sex, they only pay half which clearly means sex is always implicit in the “contract” of dowry.

Therefore, mut’a is pointless without sex. Without a dowry sex should not take place. Mut’a must therefore be for sex alone. Otherwise it is simply being alone together (2:235).

Next, you attempt to create another form of marriage. Using 4:24, this is impossible because the Qur’an says “then for what you enjoy of it” (the key word = “it” meaning what it was just talking about – proper marriage). You say that proper marriage becomes an official “Temporary Marriage” if after getting married officially and having sex, they decide to divorce. This is silly because it is clearly talking about “it” (proper marriage as per the entire verse 4:24).

There is thus only one type of marriage, the true and lawful type for which divorce is discouraged (2:226, 4:3, 4:35) and which is a firm covenant (4:21). You say that the firm covenant is made prior to sex, but clearly the firm covenant is for future love and care, because sex is only a part of “sealing” the firm covenant for another thing (their future lives).

The firm covenant is the marriage, because firstly marriage involves a promise (2:235) and secondly it involves a tie in writing (2:235).

Next, you say that what is “mutually agreed upon” refers to the longevity of marriage. This is an assumption which if true, merely means that if circumstances prefer, they can divorce. It is not a mandate to exploit loopholes and have fun.

4:24 says the payment of a dowry is obligatory where sex is involved. It could say that what is agreed on after this payment is confirmed is not blameable. Once he has paid it, they can renegotiate it if circumstances prefer. Examples of negotiating the dowry can be found in 2:237 and 4:3.

Consider: If “what you mutually agree of it from after the obligation” referred only to divorce, it would be a completely pointless statement because there are only two possibilities: they stay together, or they intend it to be temporary (and thus require divorce). If they intend to stay together, then obviously there is no blame. There is now only one possibility, and that is that it is intended to be temporary. Since this is the only option, why does the Qur’an say “for what you mutually agree of it from after the obligation” rather than “divorce”? There are so many possibilities for what could be agreed upon. They could agree to divorce when tired of having sex even if they have had a child together. If 4:24 does not refer to what is agreed regarding the dowry, then mutually agreeing to do this is certainly not blameable. Since this would contradict the necessity for common-sense, we cannot accept temporary marriage with the Qur’an alone. “Lesson 15” presents obvious evidence.

If “what you mutually agree of it” refers to what you agree of marriage, then temporary marriage is still not allowed because the agreement for divorce must be made after the dowry, not before. Otherwise, marriage would be purely based on performance in bed and thus would be pointless and un-Islamic. The intention to stay together should be there before.

Of course marriage can be useful (e.g. 4:3). However this is just in situations where their financial and other needs cannot be satisfied. If they did not wish to be married, people would help them to obtain some form of “welfare”. Marriage is a product of consent and wanting and intending to live together in a state of harmony. If discomfort in marriage is foreseeable, people will not marry. If unforeseen discomfort occurs, they may eventually separate.

The rest is my original post before I cross-checked a translation. Cassie's replies relate to it, although it is no longer relevant.
Spoiler! :
With thanks to Submission.org


Adultery/fornication is not allowed (4:15-16, 5:5, 17:32, 24:2-3, 24:30, 25:68).

War-captives should be treated well and released when possible (2:177, 4:25, 4:36, 5:89, 16:71, 24:33, 47:4, 90:13).


“Ma Malakat Aymanukum” translates to “what your right hand possesses”.

When we study the verses that talk about “Ma Malakat Aymanukum”, we will understand this sensitive issue:

MMA covers five (overlapping) categories of people, and they can be men, women, boys or girls. The expression of MMA has different meanings in different verses, although all of them fall under the same classification – a group of people who depend on you, almost totally, for their living requirements, security and well-being. We realise that MMA are a part of our families who should be treated with respect and given their rights as human beings. Only in two categories out of five is sexual relationship permitted, and only after these MMA are in a registered, consensual, committed “marriage-like” relationship. Even in cases of war, all the captured women (and men) fall under the protected MMA and cannot be considered as sex-objects. They should be treated with respect and asked for marriage, and given their due dowries. Rape of women during wartime is a crime as it is during peacetime. Righteousness is defined by an established moral value, which is best judged (in this context) by the words of the Qur’an.

The following is a description of these categories of MMA in the Qur’an, the verses that mention them and the expected relationship:


(1) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = “what you already have”. The first category of MMA is the category of women who were already married to their husbands even if their marriages do not follow the Qur’anic rules (e.g. because their marriage occurred before the revelation of the Qur’an or before their conversion to Islam). This can be comprehended from the wording of 4:3.

In this case, if you already have a wife or wives, even from a category that became prohibited after the revelation of the Qur’an, you can keep them. You do not have to divorce them as God would not break an established tie. This category of MMA is considered permitted for these particular people and falls under what you already possess. Since they are a married couple, a sexual relationship is permitted.


“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three or four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry/be content with) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.” (4:3)


“O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom you already have out of those Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom they already have in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (33:50)


“It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what you already have. Allah is Watchful over all things.” (33:52)


(2) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = “What is rightfully yours”. In this category sexual relationship is permitted. However, we have to be very careful in understanding this law in the Qur’an. The Qur’an deliberately used the word “OR” when permitting the sexual relationships between men and MMA. It is actually EITHER their spouses OR MMA. It did not use “AND” in these particular verses, (their spouses and MMA). In this category of what is rightfully theirs are (for example) situations where a man and woman married each other (before Islam) without registering their marriage with the appropriate authorities. Common-law marriage in USA is one of these cases where both the man and the woman agrees to live together as a husband and a wife in front of God, but do not register their marriage. It can also include cases described in the first category where MMA becomes rightfully theirs by prior permission given to them. The continuance of such a contractual relationship would depend upon consensus of both parties.

Use of “or” rather than “and” also indicates that a person cannot be in a sexual relationship with such contractual MMA and a spouse at the same time. It is essentially “unofficial marriage”.

Short-term agreement to have sex is not included in this category. This short-term agreement is prostitution and is forbidden by the Qur’an’s ruling. In such agreements the man deprives the woman from her legal rights of a wife, and frees himself from any obligation following divorce. “Muta” marriage was addressed in Lesson 14.


“Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable.” (23:6)


“Except in the case of their wives or those whom they legally possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed.” (70:30)


(3) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = slaves, if any. Since slaves are dependent totally upon their owner, they are considered MMA. Although the Qur’an advocates the freeing of slaves in every possible occasion, the law is placed in the Qur’an to protect those who were slaves at the time of the revelation and for those who may be (in the position of) slaves in future. Slaves and servants are protected and not considered as sexual partners outside of lawful marriage.


“And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (4:25)


In this verse, it clarifies the status of MMA as being honourable women who may marry believing men with permission from their guardians. If these slave women are the sexual partners of their guardians, how can they be offered to believing men? The Qur’an tells them to MAINTAIN their moral behaviour by not committing adultery or having secret lovers. This verse clearly shows those slave women (MMA) are not sexual partners of their guardian (e.g. 24:31, 33:55). Moreover, men would not have to keep chaste if they could have sex outside of marriage.


“And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (24:33)


Two important teachings are found in this verse – to free the slaves (servants) so they can get married, and not to force the girls to commit prostitution. In this verse, MMA, servants (slaves), can be freed from slavery to get married, and even helped with money to do so. Had they been legitimate sexual partners of the owner or guardian, they could not be available for marriage whenever they wanted to (as this verse says). Forcing them to have sex will be prostitution or rape. This verse reminds us that Muslims must not have sex outside marriage.


(4) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = servants. Since servants are dependent on us for their living, we are responsible for their well-being. However, they are not our sexual partners:


“And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.” (24:31)


There is a lesson in this verse. The Qur’an informs us that the believing women may possess the same category (MMA) as the men. Notice that the verse starts by asking the believing women to maintain their chastity.

The male scholars who gave permission for men to have sex with MMA do not allow the same right for a woman who owns the same category (MMA). These scholars fabricated laws of their own that apply to the men but not to women. Such laws have no basis in Qur’anic mandate. The Qur’an prohibits sexual relationships with MMA outside of marriage for both the men and the women alike.


“There is no blame on them in respect of their fathers, nor their brothers, nor their brothers' sons, nor their sisters' sons nor their own women, nor of what their right hands possess; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is a witness of all things.” (33:55)


(It is possible to interpret MMA in 24:31 and 33:55 as slaves, but either way a female cannot have sex with MMA. Of course this applies to males, proving that slaves and servants are not permitted for sex.


“O you who believe! let those whom your right hands possess and those of you who have not attained to puberty ask permission of you three times; before the morning prayer, and when you put off your clothes at midday in summer, and after the prayer of the nightfall; these are three times of privacy for you; neither is it a sin for you nor for them besides these, some of you must go round about (waiting) upon others; thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (24:58)


It is clear from this verse that MMA (servants) do not have the permission given to your spouse (sexual partner) of freely entering your sleeping quarters. Had these MMA (servants) been considered as your sexual partners, such permission would not be needed.


“And serve Allah and do not associate anything with Him and be good to the parents and to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the neighbour of (your) kin and the alien neighbour, and the companion in a journey and the wayfarer and those whom your right hands possess; surely Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful.” (4:36)


“And Allah has made some of you excel others in the means of subsistence, so those who are made to excel do not give away their sustenance to those whom their right hands possess so that they should be equal therein; is it then the favour of Allah which they deny?” (16:71)


“He sets forth to you a parable relating to yourselves: Have you among those whom your right hands possess partners in what We have given you for sustenance, so that with respect to it you are alike; you fear them as you fear each other? Thus do We make the communications distinct for a people who understand.” (30:28)


(5) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = A special category of women who leave their disbelieving husbands during wartime and join the believers’ camp. This category is also protected in the Qur’an and not exempted as sex slaves. They must be treated like any free woman, asked for permission for marriage and given all the due respect and payments that apply to legal marriage. This is demonstrated in 60:10.


“And all married women except those whom your right hands possess; (this is) Allah’s ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (4:24)


“O you who believe! when believing women come to you flying, then examine them; Allah knows best their faith; then if you find them to be believing women, do not send them back to the unbelievers, neither are these (women) lawful for them, nor are those (men) lawful for them, and give them what they have spent; and no blame attaches to you in marrying them when you give them their dowries; and hold not to the ties of marriage of unbelieving women, and ask for what you have spent, and let them ask for what they have spent. That is Allah's judgment; He judges between you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (60:10)
Last edited by MesMorial on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:21 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Cassie »

This is a ridiculous apologetic. For example:
submission.org wrote:Use of “or” rather than “and” also indicates that a person cannot be in a sexual relationship with such contractual MMA and a spouse at the same time. It is essentially “unofficial marriage”.
Clearly this implies that a Muslim cannot have an MMA and a wife at the same time = PREMISE 1.

Yet:
submission.org wrote:“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three or four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry/be content with) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.” (4:3)
The phrase, "but if you fear that you will not do justice... blah... blah... blah" suggests that a Muslim can marry wives and carry on a sexual relationship with an MMA if he does NOT fear that he will not do justice.

Now, since an MMA, by submission.org's premise is a pre-existing pre-Islamic de-facto "marriage", this blows Premise 1 to smithereens.

The stupid thing about 4:3 is that it links fear of inequity towards orphans with polygamy. It's ridiculous and morally repulsive.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

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Cassie wrote:This is a ridiculous apologetic. For example:
submission.org wrote:Use of “or” rather than “and” also indicates that a person cannot be in a sexual relationship with such contractual MMA and a spouse at the same time. It is essentially “unofficial marriage”.
Clearly this implies that a Muslim cannot have an MMA and a wife at the same time = PREMISE 1.

Yet:
submission.org wrote:“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three or four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry/be content with) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.” (4:3)
The phrase, "but if you fear that you will not do justice... blah... blah... blah" suggests that a Muslim can marry wives and carry on a sexual relationship with an MMA if he does NOT fear that he will not do justice.

Now, since an MMA, by submission.org's premise is a pre-existing pre-Islamic de-facto "marriage", this blows Premise 1 to smithereens.

The stupid thing about 4:3 is that it links fear of inequity towards orphans with polygamy. It's ridiculous and morally repulsive.
Cassie you are relentless., greetings and how are you doing?? you are relentless and recently you have not posted anything to Iffo's folder

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by MesMorial »

Cassie wrote:This is a ridiculous apologetic. For example:
submission.org wrote:Use of “or” rather than “and” also indicates that a person cannot be in a sexual relationship with such contractual MMA and a spouse at the same time. It is essentially “unofficial marriage”.
Clearly this implies that a Muslim cannot have an MMA and a wife at the same time = PREMISE 1.

Yet:
submission.org wrote:“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three or four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry/be content with) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.” (4:3)
The phrase, "but if you fear that you will not do justice... blah... blah... blah" suggests that a Muslim can marry wives and carry on a sexual relationship with an MMA if he does NOT fear that he will not do justice.

Now, since an MMA, by submission.org's premise is a pre-existing pre-Islamic de-facto "marriage", this blows Premise 1 to smithereens.

The stupid thing about 4:3 is that it links fear of inequity towards orphans with polygamy. It's ridiculous and morally repulsive.
But where did you get the big "NOT"? Your concern was addressed by the first sentence in the verse. Again, 4:3 provides an exception to the rule. Even so, "MMA" has a number of meanings, and if we look to 4:25 we find that it probably does not convey "what you already have". In that way the exclusion-principle of MMA is not broken. MMA can be married instead of orphans, and polygamy was only for the orphans.

In 23:6, MMA cannot mean captives, but rather what one already had (by oath). Sex with slaves/captives was ruled-out by 4:25 and 24:33.
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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by MesMorial »

I just noticed 24:33 was not translated properly. This changes everything (makes it simple):

Spoiler! :
Adultery/fornication is not allowed (4:15-16, 5:5, 17:32, 24:2-3, 24:30, 25:68). However, those whom your oaths of care possess are valid for (consensual) sex.

War-captives should be treated well and released when possible (2:177, 4:25, 4:36, 5:89, 16:71, 24:33, 47:4, 90:13).

“Ma Malakat Aymanukum” translates to “what your oaths (of care) possess”. In the Qur’an, it refers to prisoners-of-war.

It is pre-supposed that sexual prisoners-of-war are females of marriageable age (e.g. 4:3). Group-sex with them would be prohibited since they would be exposing themselves to each other, thereby violating the restrictions between carer and captive.

Women can also possess MMA, but the Qur’an often addresses males exclusively (e.g. 4:19-25) thus for reasons of health/pregnancy they would not be allowed to have sex with them. Men are the maintainers of women (4:34) and have a higher degree of authority (2:228), thus they would decide who had MMA and to what degree (plus men are the fighters thus would take them).

Here are the verses pertaining to them:


“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three or four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then only one or what your oaths possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.” (4:3)


“O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their oaths possess so that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (33:50)


“It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your oaths possess. Allah is Watchful over all things.” (33:52)


“Except before their mates or those whom their oaths possess, for they surely are not blameable.” (23:6)


“Except in the case of their wives or those whom their oaths possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed.” (70:30)


“And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your oaths possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (4:25)


“And let those who do not find the means to marry refrain (from doing so) until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your oaths possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (24:33)


“And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or those whom their oaths possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.” (24:31)


“There is no blame on them in respect of their fathers, nor their brothers, nor their brothers' sons, nor their sisters' sons nor their own women, nor of what their oaths possess; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is a witness of all things.” (33:55)


“O you who believe! let those whom your oaths possess and those of you who have not attained to puberty ask permission of you three times; before the morning prayer, and when you put off your clothes at midday in summer, and after the prayer of the nightfall; these are three times of privacy for you; neither is it a sin for you nor for them besides these, some of you must go round about (waiting) upon others; thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (24:58)


“And serve Allah and do not associate anything with Him and be good to the parents and to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the neighbour of (your) kin and the alien neighbour, and the companion in a journey and the wayfarer and those whom your oaths possess; surely Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful.” (4:36)


“And Allah has made some of you excel others in the means of subsistence, so those who are made to excel do not give away their sustenance to those whom their oaths possess so that they should be equal therein; is it then the favour of Allah which they deny?” (16:71)


“He sets forth to you a parable relating to yourselves: Have you among those whom your oaths possess partners in what We have given you for sustenance, so that with respect to it you are alike; you fear them as you fear each other? Thus do We make the communications distinct for a people who understand.” (30:28)


“And all married women except those whom your oaths possess; (this is) Allah’s ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.” (4:24)


NOTE ON POLYGAMY

Polygamy is restricted to wartime situations where there are orphans who cannot be adequately cared for outside marriage (i.e. there may be more women than men). Muslim men may marry up to four if necessary, but the Qur’an predicts that this will result in marital dissonance (4:129). Thus it is neither encouraged nor considered as socially palatable. Only under similar conditions would an Islamic society permit it.

Women cannot commit polygamy:


“(Forbidden to you are) all married women…” (4:24)


This is because men are considered “bread-winners” (4:34).

However, as per 33:52, people may be in sexual relationships with their spouse and any number of their MMA (at the same time).
Last edited by MesMorial on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cassie
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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Cassie »

Mesmorial wrote:But where did you get the big "NOT"? Your concern was addressed by the first sentence in the verse. Again, 4:3 provides an exception to the rule. Even so, "MMA" has a number of meanings, and if we look to 4:25 we find that it probably does not convey "what you already have". In that way the exclusion-principle of MMA is not broken. MMA can be married instead of orphans, and polygamy was only for the orphans.

In 23:6, MMA cannot mean captives, but rather what one already had (by oath). Sex with slaves/captives was ruled-out by 4:25 and 24:33.
4:3 says this:

“And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three or four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry/be content with) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.” (4:3)

The bold red bits mean that the Muslim must already have an MMA. But he can still choose to marry multiple wives, if he does not fear he will not do justice towards the orphans.

Let me clarify:
If he fears blah blah blah... he should only limit himself to the MMA.

But the corollary is that if he DOES NOT fear blah blah blah... he can avail himself to multiple wives.

The choice is with the Muslim - whether he fears OR NOT.

To make the choice between marrying wives OR limit himself to his MMA, he must already have the MMA. That is a given. If he does not have the MMA then how can he choose between new wives AND his existing MMA?

You need to think more clearly - especially if you are given a choice. Choices mean more than one option. You seem to be limiting, like other brainwashed Muslims, to only what you want to see. Not what the verse actually says.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Cassie »

Mesmorial wrote:In 23:6, MMA cannot mean captives, but rather what one already had (by oath). Sex with slaves/captives was ruled-out by 4:25 and 24:33.
23:6 = Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they will not be blamed -

Doesn't say those MMA cannot be captives.


4:25 = And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Doesn't say those MMA cannot be captives.


24:33 = But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess - then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.

Doesn't say those MMA cannot be captives either.


So none of these verses say the MMA cannot be captives. You are making things up or twisting the verses to your perceived needs.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Cassie »

submission.org wrote:It is clear from this verse that MMA (servants) do not have the permission given to your spouse (sexual partner) of freely entering your sleeping quarters. Had these MMA (servants) been considered as your sexual partners, such permission would not be needed.
Stupid reasoning. A slave is a slave, whether sexual or not. One does not preclude the other. For example, some men make their wives seek permission to leave the house. Others do not. Why would the necessity for permission rule one thing or another out?

submission.org wrote:Ma Malakat Aymanukum = slaves, if any. Since slaves are dependent totally upon their owner, they are considered MMA. Although the Qur’an advocates the freeing of slaves in every possible occasion, the law is placed in the Qur’an to protect those who were slaves at the time of the revelation and for those who may be (in the position of) slaves in future. Slaves and servants are protected and not considered as sexual partners outside of lawful marriage.
Another outright lie. Doesn't the quran says an MMA is lawful for the Muslim? Whether MMA = slaves or servants is relevant because the Quran says the MMA is lawful for the Muslim to have sex with.

It is merely an unsubstantiated apologetic that the MMA is 'legally married' to the Muslim. There is no Quranic verse that says the MMA must be married to the Muslim. The Muslim can marry an MMA but that is not necessary. This is the fallacy of composition. It's like saying that a man can marry a work colleague - then all work colleagues are married to other work colleagues. The fact that a Muslim can marry his MMA does not mean that he must be married to all his MMAs. This is just an example of the Muslim trick.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by MesMorial »

So none of these verses say the MMA cannot be captives. You are making things up or twisting the verses to your perceived needs.
Hello;

Had it not been for the mistranslation which I was honestly following, your arguments would have had no ground. However, after a quick investigation, I would agree.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by yeezevee »

The Ideal Muslim Woman and Her Husband By Dr. Muhammad ‘Ali Al-Hashimi

(An Excerpt from the Book “The Ideal Muslimah: The True Islâmic Personality of the Muslim Woman as Defined in the Qur’ân and Sunnah”)
Marriage in Islam

In Islam, marriage is a blessed contract between a man and a woman, in which each becomes “permitted” to the other, and they begin the long journey of life in a spirit of love, co-operation, harmony and tolerance, where each feels at ease with the other, and finds tranquility, contentment and comfort in the company of the other. The Qur’an has described this relationship between men and women, which brings love, harmony, trust and compassion, in the most moving and eloquent terms:

( And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your [hearts] . . .) (Qur’an 30:21)

This is the strongest of bonds, in which Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) unites the two Muslim partners, who come together on the basis of love, understanding, co-operation and mutual advice, and establish a Muslim family in which children will live and grow up, and they will develop the good character and behavior taught by Islam. The Muslim family is the strongest component of a Muslim society when its members are productive and constructive, helping and encouraging one another to be good and righteous, and competing with one another in good works.

The righteous woman is the pillar, cornerstone and foundation of the Muslim family. She is seen as the greatest joy in a man’s life, as the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:
....................................

She chooses a good husband

One of the ways in which Islam has honored woman is by giving her the right to choose her husband. Her parents have no right to force her to marry someone she dislikes. The Muslim woman knows this right, but she does not reject the advice and guidance of her parents when a potential suitor comes along, because they have her best interests at heart, and they have more experience of life and people. ................
“My father married me to his nephew, and I did not like this match, so I complained to Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). He said to me: ‘Accept what your father has arranged.’ I said, ‘I do not wish to accept what my father has arranged.’ He said, ‘Then this marriage is invalid, go and marry whomever you wish.’ I said, ‘I have accepted what my father has arranged, but I wanted women to know that fathers have no right in their daughter’s matters (i.e. they have no right to force a marriage on them).’” 2

At first, the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) told al-Khansa’ to obey her father, and this is as it should be, because the concern of fathers for their daughters’ well-being is well-known. But when he realized that her father wanted to force her into a marriage she did not want, he gave her the freedom to choose, and saved her from the oppression of a father who wanted to force her into an unwanted marriage.
..............................................
Islam has protected woman’s pride and humanity, and has respected her wishes with regard to the choice of a husband with whom she will spend the rest of her life. It is not acceptable for anyone, no matter who he is, to force a woman into a marriage with a man she does not like.
There is no clearer indication of this than the story of Barirah, an Ethiopian slave-girl who belonged to ‘Utbah ibn Abu Lahab, who forced her to marry another slave whose name was Mughith. She would never have accepted him as a husband if she had been in control of her own affairs. ‘A’ishah (radhiallahu anha) took pity on her, so she bought her and set her free. Then this young woman felt that she was free and in control of her own affairs, and that she could take a decision about her marriage. She asked her husband for a divorce. Her husband used to follow her, weeping, whilst she rejected him. Bukhari quotes Ibn ‘Abbas describing this freed woman who insisted on the annulment of her marriage to someone she did not love; the big-hearted Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) commented on this moving sight, and sought to intervene. Ibn ‘Abbas said:
...........................

The true Muslim woman devotes herself to taking care of her house and husband. She knows her husband’s rights over her, and how great they are, as was confirmed by the Prophet’s words:

“No human being is permitted to prostrate to another, but if this were permitted I would have ordered wives to prostrate to their husbands, because of the greatness of the rights they have over them.”10

And:

“If I were to order anyone to prostrate to anyone else, I would have ordered women to prostrate to their husbands.”11

‘A’ishah (radhiallahu anha) asked Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Who has the greatest rights over a woman?” He said, “Her husband.” She asked, ‘And who has the greatest rights over a man?” He said, “His mother.”12

A woman came to ask the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) about some matter, and when he had dealt with it, he asked her, “Do you have a husband?” She said, “Yes.” He asked her, “How are you with him?” She said, “I never fall short in my duties, except for that which is beyond me.” He said, “Pay attention to how you treat him, for he is your Paradise and your Hell.”13

How can the Muslim woman complain about taking care of her house and husband when she hears these words of Prophetic guidance? She should fulfill her household duties and take care of her husband in a spirit of joy, because she is not carrying a tiresome burden, she is doing work in her home that she knows will bring reward from Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala).

......................
The Muslim woman does not forget that her obedience to her husband is one of the things that may lead her to Paradise, as the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“ Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: ‘Any woman who dies, and her husband is pleased with her, will enter Paradise.’” 15


.....................
When these hadith refer to the husband being angry with his wife, they refer to cases in which the husband is right and the wife is wrong. When the opposite is the case, and the husband is wrong, then his anger has no negative implications for her; in fact, Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) will reward the wife for her patience. But the wife is still required to obey her husband, so long as no sin is involved, because there should be no obedience to a created being if it entails disobedience to the Creator. Concerning this, the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:
.....................

She is obedient, kind and loving towards her husband, ever eager to please him. She does not disclose his secrets or upset his plans. She stands beside him at times of hardship, offering her support and wise advice. She shares his joys and sorrows. She endears herself to him by the way she looks and behaves, and fills his life with joy and happiness. She encourages him to obey Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) in different ways, and motivates him by joining him in different activities. She respects his mother and family. She refrains from looking at other men. She keeps away from foolish and worthless talk. She is keen to provide an atmosphere of peace, tranquility and stability for her husband and children. She is strong of character without being rude or aggressive, and is kind and gentle without being weak. She earns the respect of those who speak to her. She is tolerant and forgiving, overlooking errors and never bearing grudges.

Thus the Muslim wife deserves to be the most successful wife. She is the greatest blessing that Allah (Subhanahu wa ta’ala) may bestow upon a man, and an incomparable source of joy in this life. The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) indeed spoke the truth when he said:

“This world is nothing but temporary conveniences, and the greatest joy in this world is a righteous woman.”73
Well there is a load sh!t in that link..

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Eagle »

Whats this, these disbelievers will keep disputing about topics that have been explained to them years ago.

23:1-6
Successful indeed are the believers (mu'minun), Who are humble in their prayers, And who keep aloof from what is vain, And who are givers of poor-rate, And who guard their private parts, Except before their mates (azwajihim) or ma malakat aymanukum, for they surely are not blameable.


70:30,23:6 tell the believers to "guard their private parts" (avoid sexual relation) with all persons outside their mates OR/AW ma malakat aymanukum. Meaning legal sexual relations are only permitted with the zawj (husband or wife) as well as the mulk yamin (male or female).

Now first of all in order to clarify who these "MMA" are a simple look at a few Quran verses will show it. In 33:50 for example the prophet Muhammad is told that among the categories of women lawful for marriage are Ma Malakat yaminuka (singular) FROM AMONG the prisonners of wars, meaning they are a seperate group from war prisonners. Or in 24:58 setting the limits of privacy inside a home between an adult and the rest of his household, including the MMA. 24:33,58 all show that the MMA cannot logically be war prisonners mingling normally with us and are people of both sexes as seen in 24:33 for anyone who understands Arabic and its grammar.

Ma malakat aymanikum are therefore some special people in society, men or women, who are maintained and provided for in a Muslim household. The poor and weak of society always have a place reserved for them and must be considered as illustrated through their right to a share in the harvest of the fields and gardens owned by their more fortunate fellow-men 6:141,68:24. In 4:33 they are guaranteed a rightful portion in inheritance and this injunction is preceded by a clear warning not to abuse the rights of the weak in society 4:29-32"believers, do not devour your property among yourselves falsely..And whoever does this aggressively and unjustly, We will soon cast him into fire..And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others".

4:23-24 expands on the categories of women that are illegal for intimate relations however it makes an exception for already married Ma Malakat aymanikum.
These married mulk yamin who are lawful can be:
- A married woman who embraces Islam and decides to desert her non-Muslim husband (only for the sake of her new faith) and comes to seek protection and shelter in a Muslim area. If after examination she is believed to be sincere in her faith then she cannot be turned back to her previous home, not only for safety reasons but also because -in the case her husband is an idolator- her new faith has made unlawful intermarriages with idolaters 2:221. A Muslim man may take her under his wing in his household, thus making her his mulk yamin. They become legal for eachother and if they wish to marry, they may only do so after payment of the dower to her initial husband thus definately annuling the previous marriage ties 60:10.
- A married war prisonner taken in a Muslim household and provided for thus becoming a mulk yamin. Under such status where she is maintained and cared for, she becomes lawful to her guardian. If he desires to be intimate with her and she refuses he may either keep her in his household and stop insisting or send her away from his household and revert her to her previous status of war prisonner.

That these mulk yamin cannot be forced into intimacy by the guardian is exemplified through the story of prophet Yusuf, bought as a slave and whom his mistress wanted to abuse sexually under the threat of emprisonnement. The Quran condemns such action, calls it an indecency/fahisha for the owner of a slave to have intercourse with him/her under compulsion 12:24 a grave fault and a manifest error 12:29-30. Yusuf desired to keep his chastity so he refused and preferred emprisonnement 12:30-4. Just as the Quran condemned Yusuf's mistress from acting against her servant's desire to remain chaste, the Quran again prohibits the guardian from acting contrary to his mulk yamin's desire for chastity such as by forcing her into prostitution as was the custom in pre-islamic times and if he does so despite the prohibition then the abused woman is certainly not to blame 24:33.

Contrary to the OT sanctionned letter for letter by Jesus which allows in no uncertain terms the rape of female prisonners Isa13:15-18, the extermination of entire population save their virgins Numbers31:17-18 etc even in the contexts of wars that fall into the category labelled even today by the rabbis as wars of "national glory" ie not in self-defense or under divine injunction, in which case the subjugation of a people either through taxes or enslavement are allowed Deut20, the Quran changed the way such categories of people that already existed in the society it came to reform, had to be treated.
It did so by igniting the believers' taqwa/God-consciousness, elevating the status of such weak categories whom there was now no shame of marrying 4:3,25,24:32,33:50 and honoring them. For example in 4:36 the Quran speaks of how they must be treated with kindness, without pride as one would treat the parents, neighbors or the weak in society. This means their guardians cannot abuse them in anyway just as one would not abuse the other groups mentionned in the verse. By further limiting the aquisition of slaves to defensive war campaings 8:67 (thus forbidding making free people slaves) and ultimately forcing their freedom after the war 47:4, the Quran ended the economic motivation to trade in them, striking at the means of such situation to arise in the first place.
Male and female war prisonners who became mulk yamin now fell under masters who treated them kindly to such an extent they had to be guaranteed a share of the inheritance if present 4:33. Again, in sharp contrast with both the OT and NT where beating them was allowed Ex21:20-21 or passing them down against their will Lev25:44-46 or where they are told to lookup to their masters as equals of God Col3:22-24 or submit even to harsh masters 1Pet2:18.
Since the Quran forbids the making of free persons slaves, restricts it to war campaigns after which they must be freed, it means this measure is essentially a punishement for those who initially attack us, a consequence of their ill behavior. However even during captivity they must be treated with the utmost kindness as well as maintained contrary to both the OT and NT where they can be abused and mistreated.
Last edited by Eagle on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Eagle »

As regards to the other subject touched upon, the issue of polygamy, by these restless disbelievers this is what the Quran clearly says and what they already have been explained yet they keep on disputing it.

Contrary to the falsehood they attempt to convey, the Quran did not invent polygamy, but 4:3 uses that pre-existing practice for the orphans' sake, making it CONDITIONAL on the premise that one might have helpless orphans under care and fears not to act with full equity towards them 4:3"And IF you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, THEN marry..." This means that the absence of that premise (presence of orphans under care) invalidates multiple marriages. The Quran is speaking of those orphans whose fathers have died -mainly in wars considering the context of revelation of the verse- and left them helpless with mothers unable to guarantee their full rights because of their (the mothers') difficult situation, or even without mothers at all. In Arabic a child is considered orphaned if he looses his father or both his parents.

In order to securize the wellbeing of these children as well as their future in society once they reach adulthood, in addition to the many verses all over the Quran telling the believers to help the weak in society namely the orphans, and stating that one of the marks of those who will be succesfull in the hereafter are those who do good to the orphans, this verse told the Muslim men with some of these orphans under their care and who feared to do any injustice to them to marry up to four widows (assuming each widow has a minimum of 1 orphan) because obviously none other than a mother will guarantee her own child's rights if it is within her power and marrying such widows will give these mothers the comfort and means to do so. In case a man has under his care orphans without both father and mother then he may marry up to 4 women he may choose in order to solve this fear of not being fully equitable with these orphans, thus sharing the burden of responsibility with them.
Marrying the orphan's mother or another woman in case the orphan's mother is dead with the purpose of caring for one's orphan solves the conditional clause of fear not to "act equitably towards orphans". The difficult responsibility of sustaining the orphan physically and emotionnaly, protecting his rights, wealth an property is this way shared by both parents. By taking them in his household, the husband is bound to provide for them as he would do with a regular wife and childen, as well as giving them increased advantages (possible inheritence in case the adoptive father dies and leaves a will, in addition to what must be given to the orphan even if there is no will 4:8, and the mother's dowry could also be used for the orphan's wellbeing) and even fill the emotional gap of a child with no father.
However the verse finishes by saying that in case the man fears he would not be able to deal justly with more than one woman as regards to her conjugal rights to the extent it would cause a wife to be neglected for the sake of another 4:129 to marry just one woman or a mulk yamin already under his possession.

One might ask, why would it be allowed to marry more than one with the condition to deal equitably with all wives when the Quran itself states in 4:129 that such condition cannot be fulfilled even if one sincerely tries?
The fact is the two verses together 4:3,129 are addressing that conditional clause of equity towards wives from two perspectives to create mutual understanding from all parties involved:
- the perspective of the women, by saying in 4:3 that they have the right to equitable treatement and the man must be aware of that right regardless of his will to care for the orphans
- the perspective of the man, by saying in 4:129 that he will not be able to be perfectly just with all wives no matter how hard he sincerely tries, and the women should be aware of the husband's sincere will to be just between them even though he fails to do so, and keep in mind that the true objective of such unions is caring for the orphans. Allah is this way absolving the husband's shortcomings who is sincerely trying to be just with his wives for the sake of orphans and at the same time creating an understanding from the part of the wives, again for the sake of orphans. However, although the verse absolves the husband from unintentional shortcomings and the wives implicitly asked to be understanding, the husband is explicitly warned not to intentionaly negate a wife's most obvious rights and injure her morally for the sake of another "but be not disinclined (from one) with total disinclination, so that you leave her as it were in suspense". This shows that the conditional clause of equity between wives in 4:3 covers the obvious and basic rights, not the shortcomings of a man sincerely trying to make a complex union work for the sake of orphans.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by MesMorial »

Now first of all in order to clarify who these "MMA" are a simple look at a few Quran verses will show it. In 33:50 for example the prophet Muhammad is told that among the categories of women lawful for marriage are Ma Malakat yaminuka (singular) FROM AMONG the prisonners of wars
Well I once used that argument. It does not mention "prisoners-of-war" in that verse. However, it is easily understood as the particular prisoners-of-war which Muhammad maintained personal possession of (i.e. not the ones given to others). Besides, 33:50 makes it clear that the MMA of 23:6 and 70:30 are explicitly the prisoners-of-war.

Anybody under possession of someone's oaths classifies as MMA, and women of marriageable age are eligible for consensual sex.
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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Eagle »

MesMorial wrote:It does not mention "prisoners-of-war" in that verse.
Look at the usage of the statment "ma Afa'a Allah ala" in the Quran which points to spoils of war only. The verse is telling the prophet legal to him are such MMA from among the spoils of war meaning they are a different category.
MesMorial wrote:However, it is easily understood as the particular prisoners-of-war which Muhammad maintained personal possession of (i.e. not the ones given to others).
Not all war prisonners were automatically taken as MMA in Muslim households, some were and others werent.
MesMorial wrote:Besides, 33:50 makes it clear that the MMA of 23:6 and 70:30 are explicitly the prisoners-of-war.
How

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by MesMorial »

Look at the usage of the statment "ma Afa'a Allah ala" in the Quran which points to spoils of war only. The verse is telling the prophet legal to him are such MMA from among the spoils of war meaning they are a different category.
Yes but again it does not mention "prisoners-of-war", rather "what Allah has given to you". This can be anyone given to Muhammad or to the muslims, while the MMA are those which Muhammad personally retained (out of necessity).
Not all war prisonners were automatically taken as MMA in Muslim households, some were and others werent.
Those prisoners-of-war which WERE are the MMA, which is what we are dicussing.
How
Explicitly but not exclusive to prisoners-of-war (however I am sure the verse is referring to prisoners-of-war as a matter-of-fact). The verse declares that the women allowed to Muhammad are from the prisoners-of-war.

If I say that you can have a donut out of the chocolate donuts, it means the chocolate donuts are allowed to you.
Last edited by MesMorial on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by Eagle »

MesMorial wrote:Yes but again it does not mention "prisoners-of-war", rather "what Allah has given to you".
Yes what Allah afa'a on the prophet and the word comes from Fay' which refers to the spoils of war obtained without fighting. This includes the human prisonners. Did you look up what "ma Afa'a Allah ala" in the Quran points to?
MesMorial wrote:This can be anyone given to Muhammad or to the muslims,
No the Fay must be controlled entirely by "God and the Messenger", ie the State in order for it to be redistributed exclusively to those in need, and avoid it falling between the hands of those who can sustain themselves 59:7"so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich" and for the general welfare of the community 59:7"the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer..the poor who fled their homes and their possessions". Since the fay was obtained without fighting, the warriors had no share in it. It is to be noted that in both cases, the prophet's share is put in the same group as that of the weak people of society meaning he never had a share exclusively for his own person.
MesMorial wrote:while the MMA are those which Muhammad personally retained (out of necessity).
From among the fay meaning they are a different category
MesMorial wrote:Those prisoners-of-war which WERE are the MMA, which is what we are dicussing.
Of course
MesMorial wrote:Explicitly but not exclusive to prisoners-of-war (however I am sure the verse is referring to prisoners-of-war as a matter-of-fact. The verse declares that the women allowed to Muhammad are from the prisoners-of-war.
Right and the Quran restricted the taking of prisonners to war campaigns only, after which they had to be freed

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by MesMorial »

Yes what Allah afa'a on the prophet and the word comes from Fay' which refers to the spoils of war obtained without fighting. This includes the human prisonners. Did you look up what "ma Afa'a Allah ala" in the Quran points to?
It means to give, restore, return. You can use the Qur’an to give the definition, but there are different verb forms as well. The Qur’an uses “afaa” only three times, and in only 2 contexts.
No the Fay must be controlled entirely by "God and the Messenger", ie the State in order for it to be redistributed exclusively to those in need, and avoid it falling between the hands of those who can sustain themselves 59:7"so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich" and for the general welfare of the community 59:7"the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer..the poor who fled their homes and their possessions". Since the fay was obtained without fighting, the warriors had no share in it. It is to be noted that in both cases, the prophet's share is put in the same group as that of the weak people of society meaning he never had a share exclusively for his own person.
Yes, given to Muhammad and Allah to distribute. Once again, those retained are Muhammad’s personal MMA.

Now the spoils are for “Muhammad and Allah” whether there is fighting or not (8:1).
From among the fay meaning they are a different category
Muhammad was allowed donuts (MMA) from among the chocolate donuts (prisoners-of-war who became MMA).
Of course
Indeed.
Right and the Quran restricted the taking of prisonners to war campaigns only, after which they had to be freed
That’s fine.

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Re: "Ma Malakat Aymanukum", Polygamy and "Temporary Marriage"

Post by piscohot »

MesMorial wrote:This is for the purpose of clarification and providing Qur'anic interpretation. Do not think of it as promoting the Qur'an rather than seeing if the Qur'an can be explained (necessary in order for people to give up hadith).

sum:Hello
If Muhammad was not God`s messenger, what was he? If he did not relay God`s message then the Koran is completely false.
Am I misunderstanding your position? Please clarify your position for me.

MesMorial:Well coincidentally that was the same conclusion I came to!


why bother with a book that you too concluded is 'completely false', Mesmorial?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

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