Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
antineoETC
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)

So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

antineoETC wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:How about, you are dismissed
Another "slam dunk" by the "great debater" eh AB?
If you want to cosinder it a slam, please do, I won't

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Let me show you what a slam dunk is:
antineoETC wrote:Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)

So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?

4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. I’m taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.

For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I don’t need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.

And that is what is called :

Image

antineoETC
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Let me show you what a slam dunk is:
antineoETC wrote:Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)

So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?

4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. I’m taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.

For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I don’t need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.

And that is what is called :

Image

So "the messenger" in the verse I raised can mean "Ibrahim" and not just Muhammad? You regard Ibrahim as a model of conduct to be emulated in all things do you your Royal Slamdunkingness? Fair enough. Let us examine some of "Ibrahim's" conduct as recorded in the Koran:

"We bestowed aforetime on Ibrahim his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him. Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are devoted?" They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them." He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers." "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs".. So he broke them to pieces..." (Koran 21:51-58)

You had no trouble jumping in with a prompt and exhaustive response when you thought you could get one over on me did you Mr "Stopwastingmytime"? Even though I had not addressed the post to you personally. But before you die of self-adulation:

You think committing acts of unprovoked vandalism against non-Muslims' cherished religious objects a praiseworthy act then. Now explain why those ancient giant statues of the Buddha in Afghanistan which the Taliban blew to pieces were not "idols", as they obviously regarded them to be, and therefore why the Taliban were not being good Muslims in committing this act.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

parvez mushtaq
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by parvez mushtaq »

wow , ahmed amazing
it will take lot of time to even answer your opening post
such a bigggggg post ! wow really amazing
really , you deserve a huge applause
i think Muslims needs you more than this world
its a suggestion
i apologize if i hurt ffians
but this is what i think about ahmed
i cannot resists myself telling this
i cannot use PM's
let the world know what i think , that is my policy

with regards

Mushtaq

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Centaur
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by Centaur »

I think some thing wired happened to khalil.Living under the threat of Muslims?????????
How could someone realy be worried about Koran or hadith, in fact following either of them alone wouldn't really make any difference to the life of Muslims.As both of them contain enough to keep Muslims decadent for centuries to come

Its fact that 99% of Muslims dependent on hadith to implement Sharia or islamic traditions like hajj

So is the discussion about which is more violent or bad?
Click to win $50,0000 :rock:

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skynightblaze
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by skynightblaze »

parvez mushtaq wrote:wow , ahmed amazing
it will take lot of time to even answer your opening post
such a bigggggg post ! wow really amazing
really , you deserve a huge applause
i think Muslims needs you more than this world
its a suggestion
i apologize if i hurt ffians
but this is what i think about ahmed
i cannot resists myself telling this
i cannot use PM's
let the world know what i think , that is my policy

with regards

Mushtaq
Since when did long post mean correct and accurate? YOur conman has been caught . See my posts to him .
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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KhaliL
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by KhaliL »

Centaur wrote:I think some thing wired happened to khalil.Living under the threat of Muslims?????????
How could someone realy be worried about Koran or hadith, in fact following either of them alone wouldn't really make any difference to the life of Muslims.As both of them contain enough to keep Muslims decadent for centuries to come

Its fact that 99% of Muslims dependent on hadith to implement Sharia or islamic traditions like hajj

So is the discussion about which is more violent or bad?

Dear Centaur,

Nothing weird has happened to me. I was certain my post will incite these kinds of doubts in FFI, but let me say, I am staying under Sharia but gives no damn to it. I am still against Islam; you can check my recent post in Muslims and Ex-Muslims section. Here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


This thread was started by me and I brought forth a point which I thought will prove Quran only is not possible for Muslims. But that point has been refuted by Ahmed Bahgat and I was being honest to admit it. Let me say again: I appreciate Ahmed Bahgat’s work which refuted my opening post. If a point is refuted and if I understand it is no longer stands, I have no problem in admitting it. And the person who refuted me deserves credit too. I congratulated Ahmed for it.

And one point to understand is this thread is not meant to refute Islam, but a notion among Muslims. And what Ahmed Bahgat refuted is one of the many of my points and conclusion can made only after I bring forth all of my points. So this contest is still open. I mentioned it in my post to Ahmed too. I will be creating another thread with other points. My first post is refuted. All credit to Ahmed Bahgat. Now, I will bring my other points but let me take my time.

Please do not make any hasty conclusions. If Ahmed Bahgat is making good points, he deserves our respect because here clash of ideas occur; not clash of personalities..

I have many disagreements with Ahmed Bahgat and they still stand. But that is not a bar for me to respect the person when he is coming up with substance.

Please stay tuned.

Regards
KF

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Trojan
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible? Part 1.

Post by Trojan »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
I have replied to this many times, do not follow the footsteps of uncrcumcised and filthy pisscohot

As I said many times, Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, and as you know a Doctor is one who have authority to have a say regarding such matter that can cause filth and risk to the human health, and because most doctors agreed that it should be done for males to protect their health, the Muslims should obey them, on the other hand I do not think that by not obeying them they would have committed any sin

back to your cell
Ahmed,
It is a shame that you would consider the words of "some" doctors over the silence of the koran.
Obviously allah did not deem it neccessary, therefore it is not mentioned. Yet you find excuses to justify what is clearly a jewish religious ritual.... and nothing more. BTW,There is absolutely no record of the prophet Mohammed ever being circumcised, so you should reserve your slurs directed towards piscohot.

Please dispel some of your misconceptions about the neccessity of this dated ritual.
http://www.cirp.org/library/general/warren2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.cirp.org/library/general/gellis1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"These, then, are the human genitals. Considering their great delicacy, complexity and sensitivity,
one might imagine that an intelligent species like man would leave them alone. Sadly, this has
never been the case. For thousands of years, in many different cultures, the genitals have fallen
victim to an amazing variety of mutilations and restrictions. For organs that are capable of giving
us an immense amount of pleasure, they have been given an inordinate amount of pain."
Desmond Morris Body Watching Crown Publishing/New York 1985

"Muslims are the first victims of Islam, to liberate them from this religion is the best service that one can render them..."
Ernest Renan (1823-1892)

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Hey Khalil

Here is an idiot shiekh from Saudi Arabia prohibiting the Biofuel

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/02/20/she ... -by-islam/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


see, where he got the law from, again froom the crap books of hadith, despite the Quran tells us that in Alcohol there is benefit for us and harm, however its harm is more tha its benefit, that is of course if we drink it, not use it as fuel or other useful needs in the hospital for examples

the above is a perfect example of those who prescribe in the religion what Allah never sanctioned, yet the shiekh is alleging that the Biofuel is haram while the Quran warned him not ot say that is harm or that is halal, how confused

Salam

zulbrain
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by zulbrain »

AhmedBahgat wrote:Hey Khalil

Here is an idiot shiekh from Saudi Arabia prohibiting the Biofuel

http://cleantechnica.com/2009/02/20/she ... -by-islam/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


see, where he got the law from, again froom the crap books of hadith, despite the Quran tells us that in Alcohol there is benefit for us and harm, however its harm is more tha its benefit, that is of course if we drink it, not use it as fuel or other useful needs in the hospital for examples

the above is a perfect example of those who prescribe in the religion what Allah never sanctioned, yet the shiekh is alleging that the Biofuel is haram while the Quran warned him not ot say that is harm or that is halal, how confused

Salam
chuckle. Thye stupid shiekh does not know biofuel is going into vehicles. useless fatwa masters. harama and halal in fuels!

antineoETC
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

Just to redo my above response to AB in case he missed it:
AhmedBahgat wrote:Let me show you what a slam dunk is:
antineoETC wrote:Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)

So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?

4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. I’m taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.

For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I don’t need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.

And that is what is called :

Image

So "the messenger" in the verse I raised can mean "Ibrahim" and not just Muhammad? You regard Ibrahim as a model of conduct to be emulated in all things do you your Royal Slamdunkingness? Fair enough. Let us examine some of "Ibrahim's" conduct as recorded in the Koran:

"We bestowed aforetime on Ibrahim his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him. Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are devoted?" They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them." He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers." "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs".. So he broke them to pieces..." (Koran 21:51-58)

You had no trouble jumping in with a prompt and exhaustive response when you thought you could get one over on me did you Mr "Stopwastingmytime"? Even though I had not addressed the post to you personally. But before you die of self-adulation:

You think committing acts of unprovoked vandalism against non-Muslims' cherished religious objects a praiseworthy act then. Now explain why those ancient giant statues of the Buddha in Afghanistan which the Taliban blew to pieces were not "idols", as they obviously regarded them to be, and therefore why the Taliban were not being good Muslims in committing this act.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

antineoETC
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

What about you zulbrain. You agree with Ahmed bahgat that Ibrahim's unprovoked vandalism of Pagan's idols is a praiseworthy act to be emulated?
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

antineoETC
Posts: 1804
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

The basic problem with the "Koran only" stance is that none of those who claim to subscribe to it truly do so. The sahih hadith and histories like ibn Ishaq's are appalling indictments of Islam and its "prophet" which are obviously a major impediment to Muslims trying to persuade potential converts that Islam is "a religion of peace". So some deceitful Muslims have taken to claiming that the Koran alone is the only valid source of guidance and the "true Islam" derived from it is all sweetness and light and peaceful coexistence with anybody and everybody that leaves the Muslims unmolested in the ritualistic practices of their faith - the so-called "five pillars". Muslims, however, can't help but spill the beans as a certain Muslim I will not name lest I am "garbage-canned" by the moderators once again demonstrates above.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

antineoETC wrote:The basic problem with the "Koran only" stance is that none of those who claim to subscribe to it truly do so. The sahih hadith and histories like ibn Ishaq's are appalling indictments of Islam and its "prophet" which are obviously a major impediment to Muslims trying to persuade potential converts that Islam is "a religion of peace". So some deceitful Muslims have taken to claiming that the Koran alone is the only valid source of guidance and the "true Islam" derived from it is all sweetness and light and peaceful coexistence with anybody and everybody that leaves the Muslims unmolested in the ritualistic practices of their faith - the so-called "five pillars". Muslims, however, can't help but spill the beans as a certain Muslim I will not name lest I am "garbage-canned" by the moderators once again demonstrates above.

There is no such thing called 5 pillars you confused, please dismiss yourself

antineoETC
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
antineoETC wrote:The basic problem with the "Koran only" stance is that none of those who claim to subscribe to it truly do so. The sahih hadith and histories like ibn Ishaq's are appalling indictments of Islam and its "prophet" which are obviously a major impediment to Muslims trying to persuade potential converts that Islam is "a religion of peace". So some deceitful Muslims have taken to claiming that the Koran alone is the only valid source of guidance and the "true Islam" derived from it is all sweetness and light and peaceful coexistence with anybody and everybody that leaves the Muslims unmolested in the ritualistic practices of their faith - the so-called "five pillars". Muslims, however, can't help but spill the beans as a certain Muslim I will not name lest I am "garbage-canned" by the moderators once again demonstrates above.

There is no such thing called 5 pillars you confused, please dismiss yourself
I said "so-called" five pillars. I agree the phrase is to be found nowhere in the Koran although the components are.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

antineoETC wrote:Just to redo my above response to AB in case he missed it:
AhmedBahgat wrote:Let me show you what a slam dunk is:
antineoETC wrote:Right let us use Pickthall's english rendering of Koran verse 33:21:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. (033.021)

So: can any Muslims give us some examples from the Koran alone of Muhammad's words and deeds on which his followers can base their own conduct?

4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. I’m taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.

For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I don’t need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.

And that is what is called :

Image

So "the messenger" in the verse I raised can mean "Ibrahim" and not just Muhammad? You regard Ibrahim as a model of conduct to be emulated in all things do you your Royal Slamdunkingness? Fair enough. Let us examine some of "Ibrahim's" conduct as recorded in the Koran:

"We bestowed aforetime on Ibrahim his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him. Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are devoted?" They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them." He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers." "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs".. So he broke them to pieces..." (Koran 21:51-58)

You had no trouble jumping in with a prompt and exhaustive response when you thought you could get one over on me did you Mr "Stopwastingmytime"? Even though I had not addressed the post to you personally. But before you die of self-adulation:

You think committing acts of unprovoked vandalism against non-Muslims' cherished religious objects a praiseworthy act then. Now explain why those ancient giant statues of the Buddha in Afghanistan which the Taliban blew to pieces were not "idols", as they obviously regarded them to be, and therefore why the Taliban were not being good Muslims in committing this act.

Answer this question you dumb

was Ibrahim a prophet from God to fix the flaws of the unbelievers?

if you answer yes, then his action of destroying the idols is provoked by the stupid mentality of the kafirs

Now for the Taliban gang, why don't you shove them up yours?


Taliban were never fighting for the way of Allah nor anyone of them is a prophet, with Ibrahim case, he wanted to make a point that the idols could not defend themsleves, if he wanted to destroy them, then he should have destroyed them all as the taliban did, but we know that Ibrahim did not destroy them all, rather left the biggest of them that suppose to be the master idol of the, TO MAKE A POINT, you confused

For Taliban gang action, of course I am against bombing the idol, however I will give the kafirs a chance to remove their idol from public places, just keep it indoor and they can worship it all day long, I have no fukin problem with that

all you need to do now is dismiss yourself

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

antineoETC wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
antineoETC wrote:The basic problem with the "Koran only" stance is that none of those who claim to subscribe to it truly do so. The sahih hadith and histories like ibn Ishaq's are appalling indictments of Islam and its "prophet" which are obviously a major impediment to Muslims trying to persuade potential converts that Islam is "a religion of peace". So some deceitful Muslims have taken to claiming that the Koran alone is the only valid source of guidance and the "true Islam" derived from it is all sweetness and light and peaceful coexistence with anybody and everybody that leaves the Muslims unmolested in the ritualistic practices of their faith - the so-called "five pillars". Muslims, however, can't help but spill the beans as a certain Muslim I will not name lest I am "garbage-canned" by the moderators once again demonstrates above.

There is no such thing called 5 pillars you confused, please dismiss yourself
I said "so-called" five pillars. I agree the phrase is to be found nowhere in the Koran although the components are.

not only that, there is no such thing called the first pillar of Islam, the shahada, you won't find such thing in the Quran either

zulbrain
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by zulbrain »

AhmedBahgat wrote: not only that, there is no such thing called the first pillar of Islam, the shahada, you won't find such thing in the Quran either
The pillars are manmade. The pillar topics are alraedy described in Quran. Islam is not a Colonnade like soem poeple think..

Pragmatist
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by Pragmatist »

Yes we all know Islams REAL five pillars these are

1) Misogyny

2) HYPOCRISY

3) Mindless VIOLENCE

4) CORRUPTION

5) Anti Semitism
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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