Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

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antineoETC
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

Ahmedbahgat. Just to reiterate my above post in case you missed it:


Anyhows, AB, could you please render the following into an english form acceptable to your good self?:

Laqad Kāna Lakum Fī Rasūli Allāhi 'Uswatun Ĥasanatun Liman Kāna Yarjū Allāha Wa Al-Yawma Al-'Ākhira Wa Dhakara Allāha Kathīrāan (Qur'an: 33.21)


Thanks
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

piscohot
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by piscohot »

Quran Only: Why it is not possible
I do know of one incident where it is not enough for Allah to just mention it in the quran. Allah needed Muhammad to show an example to the followers so that they can follow: the right to marry your daughter in law.

When Muhammad first had the 'revelations', there was NO complete quran. Verses were 'inspired' by circumstances over a period of more than 20 years. As such, it is only natural for the followers to follow the examples set by Muhammad. Eg: kissing of the stone at Kaba, praying postures, robbing caravans, the wives submitting to the lust of the husbands as and when they want it, etc.... all these certainly were not in the quran.

What about now that the quran is 'complete'? Do they need to follow the examples of Muhammad?
Of course! Allah himself said that if you want to go to heaven, you need to emulate Muhammad.

(And you (stand) on an exalted standard of character.) (Al-Qalam 68: 4)
(Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah.) (Al-Ahzab 33: 21)


Why would Allah tell you to follow the 'beautiful pattern' of Muhammad knowing there was no mention of these 'patterns' in the quran?
Because the conduct of Muhammad was there for the followers to see and record in the hadiths.
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

piscohot
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by piscohot »

skynightblaze wrote:@ahmed

I just have one question for you in response to Khalils argument. YOu said that you can follow Muhhamad just like Muhhamad followed Abraham. I just want to know how you are going to follow him without any of the books other than quran?
or how exactly did Muhammad followed the religion of Abraham?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

Nosubmission
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by Nosubmission »

One of the problems with the Koran-only stand is that the Islamic social code of conduct is based on Mohammad's words and actions. Even some of the verses of the Koran are results of Mohammad's problems in life. For instance, Mohammad's marriage with Zainab is presented in the Koran as an official example to be followed by all Muslims. In this case Mohammad's example precedes the supposed revelation arranging marital relations. Thus, Allah allegedly adapts His revelation to Mohammad's actions by determining him as an authoritative example.

More, nowhere in the Koran does Mohammad state that reading the Koran is sufficient for salvation or walking in the straight path. He never turns down people who consult HIM for guidance by directing them to the Koran. According to the verses in the Koran, Mohammad is not only a means by which the supposed revelation is given to mankind, but a TEACHER of scripture AND wisdom:

Surah 2:151
Even as We have sent unto you a messenger from among you, who reciteth unto you Our revelations and causeth you to grow, and teacheth you the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth you that which ye knew not.

Finally, a chapter of the Koran talks of an interesting dialogue between Moses and an unnamed figure who teaches Moses the right conduct of the things:

Surah 18:66
Moses said unto him: May I follow thee, to the end that thou mayst teach me right conduct of that which thou hast been taught ?

Moses needs a teacher and a role model despite the scripture given him!
Elohim has come, Allah has vanished

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

skynightblaze wrote:@ahmed

I just have one question for you in response to Khalils argument. YOu said that you can follow Muhhamad just like Muhhamad followed Abraham. I just want to know how you are going to follow him without any of the books other than quran?
Well, the religion of Ibrahim is really nothing than submitting to Allah, you know Ibrahim was the one who called us Muslims, again your man made books of hadith are not needed but if you desire to shove it up yours, please do, I can help ya in that too

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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible? Part 1.

Post by Trojan »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Ki Santoso Sejati wrote:you said books of hadith can not be admissible as a religious evidence due to its massive flaws. Don't you know that most of islam rituals such as shalat and pilgrimage to mecca is based on hadith
Why don't u bring those hadith that teach me those rituals in here and I let u know if I accept them or not
Ahmed,
I know you will ignore me, but for the benefit of others and the thread, will you please explain the following:
Where in the koran did allah tell you that all Muslim males have to be circumcized? Show me a single verse in the koran that says it. Yet you have willingly lobbed of the end of your son's penis' for generations .....no? Did this ritual not come from the hadiths ? ? ?

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Centaur
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by Centaur »

Qur'an revolves and evolves around Muhammad's life. Muhammad recited the words of the Qur'an in response to various situations in his life, but what these situations were is not recorded in the Qur'an. That is, the Qur'an does not provide its own context or chronology. Knowing the correct context and chronology is essential to understand the Qur'an. But to know this context and chronology you must go outside of the Qur'an to the Islamic traditions - books like the Hadith or Sira literature. These books provide the context for the Qur'an. The Islamic scholar Habib Ur Rahman Azami clearly states the Qur'an's dependence upon the Hadith and Sira.

(I)t is almost impossible to understand or explain the meaning of a large number of Qur'anic verses if the Traditions are rejected as useless and inauthentic. (Habib Ur Rahman Azami, The Sunnah in Islam, pp. 29-31.)

The Bible, however, is very different. It provides all of its own context and chronology. Its revelation begins with creation and tells the story right through to the new creation, the age of the resurrection. When the Bible gives various commands or announces the gospel it does so within a context that it itself has revealed. Thus, to understand the Bible you only need the Bible. The Bible is self-sufficient, as the word of God should be. Therefore to compare the Bible to the Qur'an alone is misleading and inaccurate.

Reason 2. Practices and Beliefs

The Qur'an does not contain most of the basic practices or many of the beliefs of Islam.


The Sunnah (the example of Muhammad) is the crucial complement to the Koran; so much so, that there are in fact isolated instances where, in fact, the Sunnah appears to prevail over the Koran as, for example, when the Koran refers to three daily prayers (24:58 and 11:116), but the Sunnah sets five. On the other hand, there are cases from the earliest days of Islam of universal practices which appear to contradict express Sunnah. Moreover, the Koran does not make explicit all of its commands; not even all those which are fundamental. Thus it enjoins prayer, but not how it is to be performed: the form of canonical prayer (salah) is based entirely on Sunnah. (Cyril Glassé, "Sunnah", The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, pp. 381-382.)

(T)he obligatory injunction to establish Salah (regular, formal worship) was revealed in the Qur’an as were some of the elements of Salah (like Qiyam, Ruku`, Sujud and Qira’ah). But the actual manner of offering Salah and the order in which the various acts connected with it were to be performed, were not described in the Qur’an. ... Similarly the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca) was prescribed as a religious duty in the Qur'an but its method and formalities were not defined. The Prophet showed the correct way by performing the Hajj himself. (Habib Ur Rahman Azami, pp. 10-11.)

Islamic Shariah is complete only with recourse to both the Qur'an and the Sunnah. (Habib Ur Rahman Azami, p. 5.)


How, when and what to pray, what to do on Hajj, circumcision, in fact most of the essential Islamic practices and beliefs come from the sunnah (practices) of Muhammad. The sunnah is essential to Islam but it does not come from the Qur'an but the Hadith and Sira. Again, this is not the case with the Bible. The Bible has everything a Christian needs. The Bible fully declares what God has done to save us and bring glory to himself and how we are to live. It is the basis for our wisdom and defines our liberty. Therefore to compare the Bible to the Qur'an alone is misleading and inaccurate.

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible? Part 1.

Post by AhmedBahgat »

Ahmed chose to reply to one of the CCCLDFFI inmates
Trojan wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Ki Santoso Sejati wrote:you said books of hadith can not be admissible as a religious evidence due to its massive flaws. Don't you know that most of islam rituals such as shalat and pilgrimage to mecca is based on hadith
Why don't u bring those hadith that teach me those rituals in here and I let u know if I accept them or not
Ahmed,
I know you will ignore me, but for the benefit of others and the thread, will you please explain the following:
Where in the koran did allah tell you that all Muslim males have to be circumcized? Show me a single verse in the koran that says it. Yet you have willingly lobbed of the end of your son's penis' for generations .....no? Did this ritual not come from the hadiths ? ? ?
I have replied to this many times, do not follow the footsteps of uncrcumcised and filthy pisscohot

As I said many times, Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, and as you know a Doctor is one who have authority to have a say regarding such matter that can cause filth and risk to the human health, and because most doctors agreed that it should be done for males to protect their health, the Muslims should obey them, on the other hand I do not think that by not obeying them they would have committed any sin

back to your cell

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

antineoETC wrote:Ahmedbahgat. Just to reiterate my above post in case you missed it:


Anyhows, AB, could you please render the following into an english form acceptable to your good self?:

Laqad Kāna Lakum Fī Rasūli Allāhi 'Uswatun Ĥasanatun Liman Kāna Yarjū Allāha Wa Al-Yawma Al-'Ākhira Wa Dhakara Allāha Kathīrāan (Qur'an: 33.21)


Thanks
How about you be strightforward first and tell me what is that you are trying to prove?

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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by yeezevee »

Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, ......
Allah didn't order Muslims to obey Allah and his messenger?? Are you sure about that dear Ahmed? did you really read your q'uran.. or you just translate it??

with best
yeezevee

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

yeezevee wrote:
Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, ......
Allah didn't order Muslims to obey Allah and his messenger?? Are you sure about that dear Ahmed? did you really read your q'uran.. or you just translate it??

with best
yeezevee
i said after it 'rather a & b and c......', are you that dumb?

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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by yeezevee »

AB says a,b,c..
i said after it 'rather a & b and c......', are you that dumb?
What a, b, c are you talking dear AB?? I only see this from you
I have replied to this many times, do not follow the footsteps of uncrcumcised and filthy pisscohot

As I said many times, Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, and as you know a Doctor is one who have authority to have a say regarding such matter that can cause filth and risk to the human health, and because most doctors agreed that it should be done for males to protect their health, the Muslims should obey them, on the other hand I do not think that by not obeying them they would have committed any sin

back to your cell
May be you are not writing it properly dear A_B., so cut down those silly abusive words., that might improve the meaning of your responses.

with best
yeezevee

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KhaliL
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by KhaliL »

________________________________________

My afterthoughts:

Piscohot asks how exactly Muhammad followed the religion of Abraham; It is easy as Ahmed made it clear in his response.


The verse Ahmed chosen to start is Quran 3:68 read as:

Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Messenger and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.[Quran 3:68]

This should be understood in its context. The verse precedes it(67) confirms Abraham was neither Jewish nor Christian but was a Hanif Muslim. Just knowing Abraham was a Muslim was made sufficient for Muhammad and Muslims under him to follow Abraham’s way of submitting.

Ahmed Bahgat has a solid case here as a Muslim.

If Muhammad could follow Abraham’s way of submitting because Allah assured him within a few words, that is sufficient for Ahmed Bahgat to argue the same Allah’s words Quran is sufficient for Muslims to follow Muhammad’s way of submitting to Allah. No additional materials are necessary. A Muslim can research through Quran and find out the truth about his god and the way of submitting to him.

To be succinct, Ahmed proved following Muhammad does not require knowing the person’s details rather what Allah said about the person Muhammad and Muhammad’s way of submitting is enough. So, the argument I brought in my OP as to follow a person one should know the person in details is thoroughly refuted by Ahmed Bahgat using Quran. I am convinced in this matter.

In normal lives we can argue if I want to follow a person for example Gandhi, I should know Gandhi in details. But here the matter is connected to faith. Faith does not require more but just believing in what has said to be believed is sufficient for a believer. And Ahmed Bahgat is a believer and he can believe whatever Quran commands him to believe in the way Allah instructed. If Muhammad and Muslims under Muhammad could follow Abraham without the help of any other sources except Allah’s words of assurance, why should Ahmed Bahgat a Muslim needs any other materials than Allah’s words (Quran) to believe in Allah and to submit to him in subservience?

Ahmed Bahgat proved his case, so my argument in the OP does not stand. It is all I meant.
______________________________________________________

And @Ahmed Bahgat,

When I said you should consider submitting some of your papers in Academic faculties, I was serious because you made a very solid case before too in the case of Jesus’s death. From Quran you proved Jesus has been died of natural causes. That too was a solid case. I mean these are new findings in Quran and only a person with enough expertise in Quran and its language can pull off these kinds of novel abstractions. You should seriously consider compiling your findings and presenting the compilation for serious consideration. Not for the purpose of extpanding your Academic credentials but you can make a difference in Muslim world which is stuck in hardcore views like killing apostates and stoning adulterers are holy prescripts. IF you are sincere in reforming and redefining Islam based on Quran why not try for it? Acquiring a PhD should not be your aim rather your efforts can sometimes help Muslims to shed their seventh century burden and get along with the evolving time. {But you should be careful in this case, as there are fanatics around who can not tolerate your views}

And I was joking when I said; you can not submit a paper in academic settings if there are enough punks and jerks in it. You may use them here in this forum but not in a paper if you want to submit for serious consideration. That is what I meant. Here in this forum you can not do without them or, we will have a different Ahmed Bahgat which I do not like to have. Your way of dismissing, slam dunking, life dismissing, all are welcome dear Ahmed. It reveals how funny and an innocent believer you are. Right now, I went to your database where you keep life dismissed inmates. And I found the new comer Nihiist too in that list. Within such a short time? Surprising..!! And the way you dismissed Akshay made me laugh all the day. These both dismissals happened in a very short time. Really funny indeed; (I do not mean any offense to either Akshay or Nihilst. We all know what Ahmed means by life dismissals since he himself chooses to abrogate it) :lol: Ahmed can not put people permanently there.

The only drawback I see is sometimes you are a bit on top with insults. Funny, creative insults are a real treat and I would be much happy when you dismiss, slam dunk and finally life dismiss people including me. I was lucky to have a parole, and I don’t know when I end up there once again. :lol: But still you are welcome Ahmed, :)

PS: And in the previous message I made a mistake in reference. Instead of pointing out you made your case bring up 3:68 I referred some other verse which is not right. I have edited my post to correct it, and if you do not mind, you too can edit your post where you quoted me.

Cheers
KF

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skynightblaze
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by skynightblaze »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:@ahmed

I just have one question for you in response to Khalils argument. YOu said that you can follow Muhhamad just like Muhhamad followed Abraham. I just want to know how you are going to follow him without any of the books other than quran?
Well, the religion of Ibrahim is really nothing than submitting to Allah, you know Ibrahim was the one who called us Muslims, again your man made books of hadith are not needed but if you desire to shove it up yours, please do, I can help ya in that too

Haha you have proved that you are a complete failure with quran only approach. I asked you how are you supposed to follow Muhhamad without any reference outside quran? You never answered that . Following someone includes everything and not just his message. Btw you are also yet to tell us WHY BUKHARI LIED WHEN HE SAID THAT MUHHAMAD DEFLOWERED A KID OF 09 YEARS WHEN NO MUSLIM CAN DEFAME MUHHAMAD ACCORDING TO YOU??? I hope you dont escape without showing your filthy arse this time.By 2011 i expect you to be totally a hadith believer. You should say like " Punk Piss off and Shove quran up your arse and bring only the hadith to argue."
Last edited by skynightblaze on Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by skynightblaze »

piscohot wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:@ahmed

I just have one question for you in response to Khalils argument. YOu said that you can follow Muhhamad just like Muhhamad followed Abraham. I just want to know how you are going to follow him without any of the books other than quran?
or how exactly did Muhammad followed the religion of Abraham?
This question would divert the attention tO Abraham - Muhhamad. AS we know muslims are just looking for a way out including our ARSE LOVER and thats why didnt press him on that :D
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

KhaliL FarieL wrote:And @Ahmed Bahgat,

When I said you should consider submitting some of your papers in Academic faculties, I was serious because you made a very solid case before too in the case of Jesus’s death. From Quran you proved Jesus has been died of natural causes.
Sure, and for the case I made regarding Jesus death, it is not something that I invented, it was something that I learnt many years ago from a Muslim sheikh who is very well respected by all Muslim Ummah, Shiekh Sharaawi who died about three years ago, that sheikh was a professor in the Arabic language, and he was the most wanted to do the Hajj Khutba, he is an Egyptian though, all accresses and actors in Egypt who quit acting, did so after talking to him directly. In fact the Saudi government one day asked the Egyptian government to relocate him to S A and they will pay his weight as gold and the offer was declined, he is my Quran mentor and through him I learnt how to cross reference the Quran, and possibly it will be done better by someone who has access to technology and even can create technology for it.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: That too was a solid case. I mean these are new findings in Quran and only a person with enough expertise in Quran and its language can pull off these kinds of novel abstractions.
Ironically mate, I found it so easy to search the Quran if you know the words Arabic root, I wonder how all those confused Arab Muslim don’t do it after the massive computer revolution for the last 10 years or so
KhaliL FarieL wrote: You should seriously consider compiling your findings and presenting the compilation for serious consideration. Not for the purpose of extpanding your Academic credentials but you can make a difference in Muslim world which is stuck in hardcore views like killing apostates and stoning adulterers are holy prescripts.
The one who can make a difference is Allah, possibly they have been cursed into the days of Jahilyah again, who klnows, what I can only do is my best in proving that many of these idolgies that we inherited do not belong to the Quran, rather may be influenced by some sick human minds, the women marriage and divorce is a clear case of that, however they manipulate Allah laws to suit their desires of continuing to oppress the women, an act they inherited from their fathers again, you can see this clearly in a country like S A where their oppression of women is so bold that they prevent them from driving, while we see in the Quran te wives of the prophet have been appointed to an executive role.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: IF you are sincere in reforming and redefining Islam based on Quran
That can not be called reforming nor redefining, rather back to originality, especially that I am a literal type of guy,, i.e. I take all the Quran words as literal unless there is good logical reason not to do so, i.e. I should take it as a metaphor, and even in such case I do not violate my own literal law, because for me the literal meaning of a metaphor is a metaphor.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: why not try for it?
Certainly it is an objective that I have, I will be delighted to dedicate my 24 hours a day for serving Allah, currently I can’t as I have debits to take care of, mortgages to pay and young children to raise, however I am trying to fit it as a full time job sithin all these must do activities to survive.

Acquiring a PhD should not be your aim rather your efforts can sometimes help Muslims to shed their seventh century burden and get along with the evolving time. {But you should be careful in this case, as there are fanatics around who can not tolerate your views}
KhaliL FarieL wrote:And I was joking when I said; you can not submit a paper in academic settings if there are enough punks and jerks in it. You may use them here in this forum but not in a paper if you want to submit for serious consideration.
I agree, but as you can predict that my first line of fire is going to be the Arab Muslims, and I can assure you that when dealing with Arabs and corner them, they will start attacking you maliciously, I inherited such malice attack from them, however my causes to attack is absolutely different to them, I attack who attack, I never start with an attack, yet again, I am doing what the Quran tell me to do exactly.

The Arabs too are known for resorting to cheap moves, something that I never do or at least try not to do, sometime you are forced to be cheap though, the bottom line is this, iit is not like I will go and tell them in the most nicest way, come on guys, you are wrong because the Quran said so and so, I must be attacked and they must attack my own personality, I am sure you have seen it in here, and I have seen it myself so many times with such unique race of people, not unique in any ting better than others, rather unique in their way of life and in their way of understanding life, an example is this:

That guy whom I mentioned in my article in this thread who I confronted with 42:21 and he acted dumb by telling me that 42:21 does not say that following Bukhari book is shirk, that guy asked me to talk directly through msn, while I really hate such chat as it is a huge time wasting activity, I did not let him down and gave him my msn address, he quickly contacted me and at that time I had my avatar of myself, my wife and my two children, now my wife is a Muslim western woman, who pears pair of pants like most western women and even Arab women do, the arsehole used such image to attack me, and my wife on such Arabic web site, by all of a sudden telling everyone not to listen to me because I am full of sh!t and that was obvious from the photo of my family that he saw, then he started talking ill about my wife, what a piece of jerk he was mate, I totally demolished him in the most malice manner possible, those confused people do not even understand the message of the Quran that no one can guide anyone even the loved ones but Allah guides whomsoever he wills, that does not mean that my wife is not guided, quite the contrary she is a Hajjah as well, something that I yet to do, all in all dealing with such race is different and I believe that I will be most suited to deal with them because I came from them then blessed with the chance to gain knowledge and educate myself in civilised environment, that is what is going to make me effective with them, on the other hand it will take a great deal from me to ignore their personal attacks and continue in a nice way, I must attack those who attack me, this is everyone’s right, with religion or without, self defence is a must.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:That is what I meant. Here in this forum you can not do without them or, we will have a different Ahmed Bahgat which I do not like to have.
But I am sure many of them read my writings in here, and as you can see for yourself that non of those so called Muslim is able to reply to me, XXX is another example of such, I even went to their web sites, and surely I have taken their attention, but quick they show the other face and either ban you or threaten you, that is why I created Free Islam.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: Your way of dismissing, slam dunking, life dismissing, all are welcome dear Ahmed.
Look, I am trying to give it a bit of funand a bit of a story line, you know as inmate pis alleges, I am the story telle. The bottom line is this, if I do not do that, it will be a very boring game to play.
KhaliL FarieL wrote: It reveals how funny and an innocent believer you are. Right now, I went to your database where you keep life dismissed inmates. And I found the new comer Nihiist too in that list. Within such a short time? Surprising..!! And the way you dismissed Akshay made me laugh all the day. These both dismissals happened in a very short time. Really funny indeed;
See, on that period of time, I had a dismissal sale, and you should expect that it will attract more customers, everyone is looking for bargain
KhaliL FarieL wrote: (I do not mean any offense to either Akshay or Nihilst. We all know what Ahmed means by life dismissals since he himself chooses to abrogate it) :lol: Ahmed can not put people permanently there.
I reckon Miss Waste at least will be permeant in there
KhaliL FarieL wrote:The only drawback I see is sometimes you are a bit on top with insults.Funny, creative insults are a real treat and I would be much happy when you dismiss, slam dunk and finally life dismiss people including me. I was lucky to have a parole, and I don’t know when I end up there once again. :lol: But still you are welcome Ahmed, :)
Keep it clean and do not insult Allah or any of his prophets and you will never be there, you may mock Isla,m, Muslims and the Quran and myself, but I just cannot see myself dialoguing with people who mock Allah or any of His prophets, it won’t happen. Even with so called Muslims. And I consider their man made books of hadith is clear mocking to the prophet and even to Allah.
KhaliL FarieL wrote:PS: And in the previous message I made a mistake in reference. Instead of pointing out you made your case bring up 3:68 I referred some other verse which is not right. I have edited my post to correct it, and if you do not mind, you too can edit your post where you quoted me.
Cheers
KF
No worries

Salam

piscohot
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible? Part 1.

Post by piscohot »

AhmedBahgat wrote:I have replied to this many times, do not follow the footsteps of uncrcumcised and filthy pisscohot

As I said many times, Allah not ordered us to obey Allah and His messneger rather Allah and His messeneger and Ulu Al Amr, i.e. those with authority, and as you know a Doctor is one who have authority to have a say regarding such matter that can cause filth and risk to the human health, and because most doctors agreed that it should be done for males to protect their health, the Muslims should obey them, on the other hand I do not think that by not obeying them they would have committed any sin

back to your cell
What doctors? Can't resist lying, can you, ahmed?
Institution Advocates Circumcision ?
American Medical Association ----- No
American Cancer Society ------ No
Center for Disease Control ----- No
National Institute of Health ----- No
American Academy of Pediatrics ----- No
Pediatric Urologists Association ----- No
Amer. College of Obst. & Gyn. ----- No

other countries
Canadian Pediatric Society ----- No
Canadian Medical Association ----- No
European Medical Societies (any) ----- No
All of these public health authorities take seriously their responsibility to protect your child's health. None of them advise you to circumcise your child.

Is Ahmed lying?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

antineoETC
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

AhmedBahgat wrote:
antineoETC wrote:Ahmedbahgat. Just to reiterate my above post in case you missed it:


Anyhows, AB, could you please render the following into an english form acceptable to your good self?:

Laqad Kāna Lakum Fī Rasūli Allāhi 'Uswatun Ĥasanatun Liman Kāna Yarjū Allāha Wa Al-Yawma Al-'Ākhira Wa Dhakara Allāha Kathīrāan (Qur'an: 33.21)


Thanks
How about you be strightforward first and tell me what is that you are trying to prove?
Why don't you just answer my straightforward question Muslim? Otherwise just say "I'm not answering that" and let people draw their own conclusions. I'm not going to bring an english rendering of that verse and have you take issue with its accuracy.
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

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AhmedBahgat
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Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by AhmedBahgat »

antineoETC wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
antineoETC wrote:Ahmedbahgat. Just to reiterate my above post in case you missed it:


Anyhows, AB, could you please render the following into an english form acceptable to your good self?:

Laqad Kāna Lakum Fī Rasūli Allāhi 'Uswatun Ĥasanatun Liman Kāna Yarjū Allāha Wa Al-Yawma Al-'Ākhira Wa Dhakara Allāha Kathīrāan (Qur'an: 33.21)


Thanks
How about you be strightforward first and tell me what is that you are trying to prove?
Why don't you just answer my straightforward question Muslim? Otherwise just say "I'm not answering that" and let people draw their own conclusions. I'm not going to bring an english rendering of that verse and have you take issue with its accuracy.

How about, you are dismissed

antineoETC
Posts: 1811
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Quran Only: Why it is not possible?

Post by antineoETC »

AhmedBahgat wrote:How about, you are dismissed
Another "slam dunk" by the "great debater" eh AB?
It is in the nature of wasp nests that some of their inhabitants are bound to sting someone. The closer you are to are to a wasp nest the more likely you are to get stung, sometimes fatally. Who would encourage wasps to establish a nest in their house?

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