Quran(Muhammad) Vs Confucius- Refuting Bahgat

[kenmirzz]

Continuation

Confucius said: "Gentlemen are harmonious and not clannish. Petty man are clannish and nor harmonious."

Quran(41:44): "Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"


The Quran is in Arabic, though there are some foreign words that had crept in, it's an overall an Arabic book. Muslims are commanded to pray to god in arabic, the sole language of communication approved by god. This is somehow tribal and clannish injunction. Ironically, Confucius highly disfavor of clannish and advocate harmonious relationship among humanity. A great differences between the two!

A false pretender is lack of coherence. His message is in one language, thus, everybody has to adopt his version of a particular story and use his language for ritual ceremony. A true sage is racially blind, though he may born in a particular environment within a particular clan, his message is universal and applicable for adoption by the humanity of differing nationalities. He is a man of coherence.


Humanity is but one family.

[yeezevee]

Indeed these are beautiful words from your post dear ken

"A true sage is racially blind. S/he may be born in a particular environment in a particular clan but his message is universal and applicable for adoption to all humanity irrespective of cultural background, nationalities and languages." ....kenmirzz

with best wishes
yeezevee

[kenmirzz]

Thank you Mr Yeezevee.

Continuation

Confucius said: "The gentlemen is at peace without being arrogant. The petty men is arrogant without being at peace."

Quran(8:33): "However, GOD is not to punish them while you are in their midst; GOD is not to punish them while they are seeking forgiveness."

A person who equates himself with god is arrogant. The Quranic verse above testify to this very fact. Arrogance is a frail vice. On the other hand, Confucius purported that a person who is at peace could never be arrogant. The difference between these two is quite remarkable.

A fake prophet believe in his own superiority because he is arrogant. He portrays himself to be of blessed nature, thus, fabricate stories about his being a savior. On the contrary, a true sage is a humble person who is at peace not only with himself, but to other as well. Arrogance and unnecessary pride are not part of his nature. He is a man of peace.


Humanity is but one family.

[Agha Shaytani]

Continuation

Confucius said: "Gentlemen are harmonious and not clannish. Petty man are clannish and nor harmonious."

Quran(41:44): "Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"


The Quran is in Arabic, though there are some foreign words that had crept in, it's an overall an Arabic book. Muslims are commanded to pray to god in arabic, the sole language of communication approved by god. This is somehow tribal and clannish injunction. Ironically, Confucius highly disfavor of clannish and advocate harmonious relationship among humanity. A great differences between the two!

A false pretender is lack of coherence. His message is in one language, thus, everybody has to adopt his version of a particular story and use his language for ritual ceremony. A true sage is racially blind, though he may born in a particular environment within a particular clan, his message is universal and applicable for adoption by the humanity of differing nationalities. He is a man of coherence.


Humanity is but one family.

Good post and thanks. I am using the information you provided against some of those brain dead muslims in another forum.

[kenmirzz]

Thank you Mr Agha

Continuation

Confucius said: "Resoluteness, persistence, simplicity and slowness to speak are close to benevolence."

Quran(87:6-7): "By degrees shall We teach thee to declare (the Message), so thou shalt not forget,Except as Allah wills: For He knoweth what is manifest and what is hidden."

The Quranic verses above proved that "Prophet" Muhammad did forget some of his alleged revelation due to prolonged span of time of his mission. His memory has depreciated over time. By Confucius standard, he failed the test of resoluteness, slowness to speak and lack the sign of benevolence.

An impostor is inconsistent. He said one thing now and said another in the future. He attributed his instability to god's canceling old message and revealing new message. In actual fact, his memory is frail and forgetfulness succumb him. However, a true sage, though he is a normal human like any of us, excelled in terms of resoluteness, persistence and simplicity. He speaks slowly and his words are bright. He is a bright human.


Humanity is but one family.

[kenmirzz]

Continuation

Confucius said: "Enthusiasm, exhortation, amicability can be considered as scholarly. Enthusiasm and exhortation among friends, and amicability among brothers."

Quran(9:23): "O ye who believe! Take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above faith: if any of you do so they do wrong."

While Confucius purely supported the amicable attitude among kinsmen and friends, "Prophet" Muhammad propagated enmity and division. The disunity of Muslims nowadays can trace its origin to this injunction.

A false prophet contemplates about division, clashes and distinguish human on the basis of cultist belief. Those who disbelieve in him are left outside the fold of his brotherhood and deserved to be maltreated. On the contrary, a true sage is an enlighten individual who cherish amicability and unity. He is a man of vision, rather than division.


Humanity is but one family.

[kenmirzz]

Continuation

Confucius said: "To send the people to battle without teaching them is to abandon them."

Quran(2:217): "They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein."

Quran(59:5): "Whether ye cut down (o ye Muslims!) the tender palm-trees, or ye left them standing on their roots, it was by leave of Allah, and in order that He might cover with shame the rebellious transgressors."

Confucius outlined the necessity to teach those who are going to send to battle because education in such matter is of prime importance. However, "Prophet Muhammad was convenient in violating the custom of "no war" which was a tradition and custom of Pre-Islamic Arabs in certain months. He taught them to be a raider, rather than a warrior.

A false prophet does everything for his own selfish benefits. To him, vengeance is a motivation of killing and war. He disregards the prevailing regulation and implement his own rules, of course, with god as his source. In contrast, a true sage is not a war-monger. He specifies the requirement to teach people in the matter of wars so that the damage will be minimized. He is a man of peace.


Humanity is but one family.

[kenmirzz]

Continuation

Confucius said: "A scholar with his heart set on property is not worthy to be called a scholar."

Quran(59:6):"And what Allah gave as booty (Fai) to His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) from them, for which you made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry. But Allah gives power to His Messengers over whomsoever He wills. And Allah is Able to do all things."

Property can be obtained in many forms. Booty acquired from war is within the definition too. It's not advisable for a scholar to set his heart upon property because people will eventually question his sincerity in preaching. On the contrary, "Prophet" Muhammad who feigned being poor had his portion in property obtained through booty every time.

A fake prophet accumulates wives and properties. He disguised himself as a pious man while he himself codify laws for reservation of properties in every battle. He is a man of the world. In contrast, a true sage acts on his preaching. He never violate his advice. He is a man of principle.


Humanity is but one family.

[piscohot]

When you read the hadiths, you will know that booty (spoils of war) are what most muslims in Muhammad's time were most concerned about.

The fact that there is a Sura 8, Spoils of war, revealed the aggressive nature of muslims such that rules need to be established concerning booties which they will get when they attack the other tribes.

[kenmirzz]

Hello Mr Piscohot. Yes, according to hadiths, the early Muslims went to war and raids for the purpose of booty, though their aspiration to attain martyrdom cannot be denied either. Both also stemmed from materialistic desire, either worldly or next worldly. Nevertheless, I avoid using hadith in this thread due to some Muslims who distrust the source. I strictly used Quranic verses in this comparison.


Continuation

Confucius said: "A man who has virtues speaks when necessary. A man who speaks unnecessarily perhaps has no virtues. A man of benevolence is sure to have courage. A man courage does not mean that he is benevolence."

Quran(8:17): "It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Confucius praised those who possess the ability to control his speech as this is part of virtues. He drew a clear line of distinction between courage and benevolence as the latter is superior in deriving courage, not vice versa. On the contrary, "Prophet" Muhammad justified his action of killing through the god, this act cannot be categorized as courage, but it's purely cowardice.

An impostor has nothing at his disposal that worth praising. Thus, he desires his followers to praise him day and night. By doing so, his act of cowardice can be covered through this type of brainwashing. On the other hand, a true sage is uncomfortable with praises lavished by his followers, he keeps consistently provide good advice of wisdom that is relevant for all time. He is truly a man.


Humanity is but one family.

[kenmirzz]

Continuation

Confucius said: "There are times when a gentleman do not act benevolently. But petty men do not have benevolence at all."
He also said: "Nowadays, an ideal human is when he thinks of righteousness where he sees advantages, risk his life when he sees others endangered and does not forget the words he had said at any time in his life."

Quran(2：106): "None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar; knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?"
Quran(13:39): "Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book."


The first wisdom of Confucius alluded to the frailness of human being and sometime lapse into non-virtuous act. But a person with dignity and gentle-manliness will most of the time act in benevolent way. His second advice is referring to sublime character of human being in enforcing righteousness and sacrifice for saving others. Besides that, he warned against forgetting one's own good words. In contrast, "Prophet" Muhammad sometimes forgot about his so called "revelation" and substitute with another, falsely claim to be an abrogation of previous rules.

An impostor when forgetting something of his own preaching, devise a stratagem as an easy way out. He claimed god as the source of the abrogation. His credulous followers do get impressed at such weak reasoning. On the contrary, a true sage abide by his own principles until death. There's no compromise in this, only a petty man can say one thing and do another.


Humanity is but one family.

[winston]

Nice Posting Kenmirrz,

I'm currently living in a Confucianist country but didn't know too much about his teachings. It's reassuring to see his message is far superiour to 'The Seal of the Prophets'.

[piscohot]

Nice Posting Kenmirrz,

I'm currently living in a Confucianist country but didn't know too much about his teachings. It's reassuring to see his message is far superiour to 'The Seal of the Prophets'.

You are right, winston.

Confucius' was far superior in his teachings and setting of examples than Muhammad who appeared almost 1000 years after Confucius.

funny that Allah could only muster such a poor example of a man compared to one who lived 1000 years before.

[kenmirzz]

Thank you to both gentlemen, Mr Winston and Mr Piscohot. If you found any error or mistake on my part, please point out to me in order to improve this thread.

Someone asked Confucius: "Is it true that gentlemen do not speak, do not smile and do not keep property?"
Confucius replied: "This is an exaggeration. A gentlemen speaks when necessary and no one resent his manner of speaking. He smiles when he is happy. He acquires property in legal way and no one criticize this acquisition because it's in proper procedure."

Quran(3:153):"Behold! ye were climbing up the high ground, without even casting a side glance at anyone and the Messenger in your rear was calling you back. There did Allah give you one distress after another by way of requital to teach you not to grieve for (the booty) that had escaped you and for (the ill) that had befallen you. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do."

Anyone with a civilized and sane mind can detect the obvious differences between those Confucius words and the verses from Quran. The former is a universal injunction for humanity as a whole, while the latter is more of tribal and clannish issues that has nothing to do with improvement in life. Even in the matter of property, Quran failed by any standard.

A fake prophet narrated tribal event that exclusively belong to his environment, which has no universal value of human right at all. On the contrary, a true sage like Confucius do not prohibit certain enjoyment in life without exceeding the boundary of Golden Rule. He never troubled his followers with mission of war, raid and booty-acquiring. He is a man of peace.



Humanity is but one family.

[ThereIs1Adonai]

This thread makes me want to weep and convert to being Chinese! Uh.... can one do that?

Thanks for sharing the words of Confucious, who never said he was a god or a prophet.... just a philosopher who shared from his years of wisdom what the had learned and pondered.


Peace, Shalom