I really think I have said all that I had to say on the issue. Stretching the discussion doesn't seem very fruitful to me anymore. I will just touch upon a few points of your post.
Charles wrote:Show me a mystic who can explain the difference to a person who has not tasted both the fruits.
So you admit that scientists can't explain the difference in an objective way? That is why the mystics say that one has to experience it for himself/herself.
At one point you wrotenow you are de-emphasizing the need to know about the world outside me?and you think that mystics don't know that we live in relation to the universe and all others?
No wonder I say, theistic mind, be it mystic lover, meditation lover is incoherent.
There is no incoherence; we prioritize things all the time and act accordingly. If one thinks that peace is more important than having the various luxuries, it doesn't mean that he has to denounce/shun/oppose the luxuries. It is simply a question of priority.
Another point against mysticism and meditation is that they de-emphasize the importance and necessity of passion. They say, don't want things, worldly things.
I say, bull shiiit.
Not surprising at all. The whole world is running after passion, and worldly things. Many are running after some imaginary things too (houris, heaven, hell, eternal life etc) with great passion. It takes a different kind of understanding, and a different angle to look at things, to stop running.
Give me the serenity of a Buddha over any luxury any day.
One is living and another is just surviving.
I could try telling you that the way we live, engrossed in thoughts of either the past which is no more, or the future which is not yet, is living in a sleep. I could try telling you that the way to live is to live in this very moment as reality is always only in the present. But I know it is no use; our very approaches are different.
Why would they make me meditate? To what end?
Answer: CAE and HUP will make you do it.
I asked why, and not who.
Tell me how did you understood that "your thought is not yours own" by meditation? You said you experienced it. Did you experienced that thought is not your own?
I saw it. Try watching/observing your own thoughts some day (another way to meditate) and you will see that too.
I disdain, irrationality. I almost hate super-naturalist. I have concluded the root cause of all evil is super-naturalism either consciously or subconsciously.
I read your statement as: a certain ECR/ECP (electrochemical reaction/process) disdains irrationality which is another type of ECR/ECP. One ECR/ECP almost reacts differently (hates) another ECR/ECP. One ECR has reacted in a particular way (concluded) the root cause of another ECR/ECP (all evil) is yet another ECR (super-naturalism) either a particular ECR (consciously) or another kind of ECR( subconsciously).
Yes it is also true that Fathom's irrationality is also due to CAE and HUP.
Then how does a particular ECR decide if your kind of ECR is superior to Fathom's?
I will now ask you a very tough question.
Do you think dumb people, with lower IQ, with little knowledge of the world we live in could be a good person?
Your question is like, if Sodium's reaction with Chlorine is better or worse than Magnesium's reaction with Chlorine. Unless you define what is "good", your question is meaningless.
I really feel I haven't much left to say on the issue. The Cat has been raising good points about free will which are backed up by scientific experiments. I don't remember you addressing those points. If you have, please give me the links to your responses.