I think Ali will have to pay up

His life, his examples and his psychology
Idesigner
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Idesigner »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:I guess I am nothing but a Hitlerite Islam hater because I quote from the Quran. :lol:
Yeezeeve had shown similar verses in OT & NT which even SA Wahabi knows by heart .Phildidge is quoting them in every post.

But.. But ..But those Koranic verses are all applied to peculiar circumstance in life of prophet Mohemmed ( Peace be upon him) and his companions ( Allah's will be pleased with all of them). Those so called bad revealations Prophet received ( Peace be upon him) when he was persecuted and orured by Koresh of Mecca, and mocked by Jews of Medina. After all those Jewish tribes of Medina refused to believe in the true and last prophet of Allah. His book was his miracles, but Jews wanted my dear prophet ( Peace be upon him) to part Red Sea again. Its pure blasphemy to ask miracle from my beloved prophet.

Here unbelivers argue without understanding context in which those holy revealations were reieved. They were not coomand but just the incidents in life of prophet ( peacer be upon him)

Last nite I had a dream and Allah told me Mohemmed ( peace be upon him) is last and true prophet. All other religins of past, present and future are from Satan.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

Idesigner wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:I guess I am nothing but a Hitlerite Islam hater because I quote from the Quran. :lol:
Yeezeeve had shown similar verses in OT & NT which even SA Wahabi knows by heart .Phildidge is quoting them in every post.

But.. But ..But those Koranic verses are all applied to peculiar circumstance in life of prophet Mohemmed ( Peace be upon him) and his companions ( Allah's will be pleased with all of them). Those so called bad revealations Prophet received ( Peace be upon him) when he was persecuted and orured by Koresh of Mecca, and mocked by Jews of Medina. After all those Jewish tribes of Medina refused to believe in the true and last prophet of Allah. His book was his miracles, but Jews wanted my dear prophet ( Peace be upon him) to part Red Sea again. Its pure blasphemy to ask miracle from my beloved prophet.

Here unbelivers argue without understanding context in which those holy revealations were reieved. They were not coomand but just the incidents in life of prophet ( peacer be upon him)

Last nite I had a dream and Allah told me Mohemmed ( peace be upon him) is last and true prophet. All other religins of past, present and future are from Satan.
Yes, these are the "so called" fair and objective people who criticize Christianity while they invent excuses for Islam. And they really, honestly do fancy themselves to be objective. It's amazing. I never understood how trashing other religions defends Islam. I've never seen a Christian nor Jew defend their religion by trashing another religion. They reason in a more sound fashion and understand the logical fallacy of this.
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phildidge
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by phildidge »

Dear Muhammad bin Lyin

I am afraid it is not a case for proving them to be false, the case is for the hadiths to be proved authentic, with your lunatic theology on this, we can claim the same with the gosples as they need to be proved not authentic, yep you are of the school of knowledge, not, ha ha ha, tell that to any teacher, please, I will love their response and please post this on here.
I have answered everyone on here, just because you think you are right, does not mean you are my little cherub.
To think over 600,000 stories were handed down by word of mouth for over 300 years, word for word, :roflmao: :roflmao:
That is what i would normally expect from someone of faith, not someone who claims to be intelligent and has beaten me, dear me, please excuse me while i cry laughing :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: You live in the land of dreams, not reality I am afraid, lets face it with this line of thoughtThe Golden Fleece must exsist, :roflmao: :roflmao:
I am sure muslims have a method for the hadiths, so do western scholars, it is called, requiring contemporary outside sources to show any of these are true.

Richard Dawkins does not hide, but states religion is fake, why is he not under death threats, yet he mocks religion, do you know what common sense is and being fooled, I guess not, silly boy. No western scholars on islam are under threat and they dispute islam, why are they not under threat? This should be good.
Utter rubbish, he knows if he presents it as a paper, it will be debunked and you know it. Actually you can catch him for libe, if there any living relatives, they could sue for defamation of character, they could be non-muslim and show the works are not authentic and Ali has no right to insult him, sorry, the works would not be under trial he would fo rthe claim, whoopped your butt again there, so easy.

If you have learnt anything from history you will understand preaching hatred only creates more hatred, but I guess, you have no idea, when you have much hatred in your heart, shame really, bash one out, it may relieve the pressure.
Oh dear here we go again with verses:

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33



As I say, we lmight as well class all religion as evil, it seems they are all selfish, but are all able to love, so is it down to how it is taught? Of course it is, as many follow a faith, through love and peace, all have good and bad, your argument, redundent, as all have done bad and show evil and good, if you fail to recognise this, you show no common sense, but it is easy to show up bigots, thinkg I will do a little dance now :rock:
Last edited by phildidge on Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yeezevee
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by yeezevee »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote: How does this defend Islam?? Christians don't deny these verses and lie about them, but Muslims deny and lie about the Quran. And where does it tell Christians not to befriend anybody?? Where does it tell them that they will look down on those in hell and mock them when they are in heaven?? You are merely quoting from the book of Revelations which talks about God's wrath. These are things that God will do, not things that God asks men to do.
I am not defending anything "Muhammad bin Lyin"., I am merely STATING THE FACT., "that fellows like this Irish guy who can not string a proper English sentence in a post without a silly mistake are quite often very familiar with Violent verses of OT & NT and know nothing about Quran & Islam"
Last edited by yeezevee on Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yeezevee
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by yeezevee »

phildidge wrote:Dear Muhammad bin Lyin

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao:
:rock:
great, good post.., you should add more emoticons, that will serve your purpose in ffi phildidge..
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

phildidge wrote:Dear Muhammad bin Lyin

I am afraid it is not a case for proving them to be false, the case is for the hadiths to be proved authentic,
Take that up with Muslims who believe the hadiths, not with us or even Ali. The point is, if anybody is guilty of libel, it is the people who told these stories and the people who compiled them, not the person who quotes them. Can you possibly understand that??
phildidge wrote: with your lunatic theology on this,
Theology?? Do you even understand the meaning of that word?? Why are you misusing it?? What you meant to say is "with your lunatic rationale or approach". How come you keep coming up as such a dummy??
phildidge wrote: we can claim the gosples as need to be proved not authentic, yep you are of the school of knowledge, not, ha ha ha, tell that to any teacher, please, I will love their response and please post this.
If you say that the gospels are false, then how can you prove someone wrong that says Jesus was a good man? What basis would you use to PROVE that this claim is false?? You still don't get it. We;ll, maybe you actually do, but you are trying anything you can to save face.
phildidge wrote: I have answered everyone on here,
Not me and not peoshi either. We both asked you how you have proven Ali to be wrong and you never answer that. No matter how much you cast doubt of whether he is right or not, that still does not prove him wrong. Can't you understand that?? Of course you can but you refuse to understand that. This thread was over at page six.

phildidge wrote: just because you think you are right, does not mean you are my little cherub.
And the same doesn't go with you?? What is the matter with your head?? What is eating at it??
phildidge wrote: To think over 600,000 stories were handed down by word of mouth for over 300 years, word for word, :roflmao: :roflmao:
I never said word for word and I even said there could be some embellishments and even inaccuracies, but I don't see where that dismisses the validity of all of them, or even many of them. Again, go have it out with the 90% of Muslims that believe in the integrity of the hadiths. Why have it out with us?? You can't prove Ali wrong if you throw the hadiths out and I've already told you why and you even know this, but you continue to ignore it because it exposes the fundamental misunderstanding of the challenge that you made. And again, this was settled on page six, troll.
phildidge wrote: That is what i would normally expect from someone of faith, not someone who claims to be intelligent and has beaten me,
All you have to do is to show me how you have proven Ali wrong. At most, you have prevented him from being proven right, that's all. Honestly, what is so difficult about this that your thick head can't see it?? It's nothing but straightforward, logical common sense.
phildidge wrote: dear me,
Oh, quit faking it, OK?? We're not stupid here and we can see through an act.
phildidge wrote: please excuse me while i cry laughing
You're not laughing at all. Again, people aren't stupid here and they see right through your silly little fake act. When i see behavior such as this, I know that the exact opposite of what the person is claiming is actually true. I'm sorry that you simply can't admit when you've made an error, but that's your problem, not mine.
phildidge wrote: You live in the land of dreams, not reality I am afraid, lets face it with this line of thoughtThe Golden Fleece must exsist,
So you don't even understand my ;line of thought properly?? Is it actually possible that you could be this stupid or is it simply stubbornness??
phildidge wrote: I am sure muslims have a method for the hadiths, so do western scholars, it is called, requiring contemporary outside sources to show any of these are true.
Again, you should be having these arguments with the 90% of Muslims who find the bulk of them to be authentic, not us. This is silly. All that Ali does is to accurately quote from a source that 90% of Muslims accept. Tell me how that is supposed to be lying?? If anybody is lying, it would be the initial story tellers or the 90% of Muslims that say most hadiths are authentic, not Ali. Why is this so hard for you to understand? You make it sound like Ali made all of this up. That's how horrible your reasoning is. If he misquoted them on purpose, THEN he could be charged with libel. Get it?? Get it?? Of course you don't because you don't WANT to get it.
phildidge wrote: Richard Dawkins does not hide, but states religion is fake,
Van Gogh didn't hide either and that's why he got stabbed and killed. Funny how you blatantly ignore that. Salmon Rushdie didn't hide at first either and used his real name, which caused him to have to go into hiding because of the death fatwa issued against him. Go ahead, just blatantly ignore that. Absolutely amazing.
phildidge wrote: why is he not under death threats, yet he mocks religion,
Because he is not specific to mocking Muhammad like Van Gogh, Rushdie and Ali Sina are. It's a pretty easy question to answer. Where is your common sense??
phildidge wrote: do you know what common sense is and being fooled,
Do you?? This is ridiculous.
phildidge wrote: I guess not, silly boy. No western scholars on islam are under threat and they dispute islam, why are they not under threat?
Because they walk on eggshells and are not directly critical of Muhammad himself. There, easy, simple answer.
phildidge wrote: This should be good.
How do you like it now?? Sure, just go ahead and blatantly ignore Van Gogh and Rushdie. How in the world you could possibly consider yourself a solid, objective thinker, I will never know.
phildidge wrote: Utter rubbish, he knows if he presents it as a paper, it will be debunked and you know it.
What is the difference between a paper and an entire book that is published for everyone's consumption?? What is the matter with you?? Are the scholars somehow prevented from reading his book?? Look at how ridiculous and desperate you are being.

phildidge wrote: Actually you can catch him for libe,
Any more than any Muslim who quotes the hadiths??? That's all he does. You make it sound like HE invented this stuff. You're out of your mind.
phildidge wrote: if there any living relatives, they could sue for defamation of character,
Look, would you stop trying to act like an attorney. It couldn't be any more obvious that you are no such thing, so stop pretending to be one. Here's a stupid question that your stupid mind never thought of. If Ali could be sued for libel, why hasn't any Muslim done that?? He could be sued in absenteea. Now shut your festering gob. :lol:

phildidge wrote: they could be non-muslim and show the works are not authentic and Ali has no right to insult him, sorry, the works would not be under trial he would fo rthe claim, whoopped your butt again there, so easy.
What is preventing them from doing that now?? He has a book that is available for all to read. You never answer this because you can't.
phildidge wrote: If you have learnt anything from history you will understand preaching hatred only creates more hatred,
Prove it. That's your opinion. For every example you show me, I can show you one that says the opposite.
phildidge wrote: but I guess, you have no idea, when you have much hatred in your heart,
And now here we go with the appeal to emotion, when it is actually you that are emotional about it.
phildidge wrote: shame really, bash one out, it may relieve the pressure.
Oh dear here we go again with verses:
Yeah, whatever. :roll:
phildidge wrote: Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33
How does this excuse the Quran verses?? Never mind, I know you won't answer that.

Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.[/quote]

Quran 9:113
"Neither the prophet, nor those who believe shall ask forgiveness for the idol worshipers, even if they were their nearest of kin, once they realize that they are destined for Hell."


phildidge wrote: As I say, willmight as well class all religion as evil, it seems they are all selfish, but are all able to love, so is it down to how it is taught?


It's down to what the verses themselves say.

phildidge wrote: Of course it is, as many follow a faith, through love and peace, all have good and bad, your argument, redundent, as all have done bad and show evil and good, if you fail to recognise this, you show no common sense, but it is easy to show up bigots, thinkg I will do a little dance now :rock:


I guess you never could have imagined how bad your post would be debunked.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

yeezevee wrote:
phildidge wrote:Dear Muhammad bin Lyin

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao:
:rock:
great, good post.., you should add more emoticons, that will serve your purpose in ffi phildidge..
That's what people do when they are not laughing but want everyone to think they are. It's pretty transparent, but this guy obviously is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier if he thinks this act will work.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

yeezevee wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote: How does this defend Islam?? Christians don't deny these verses and lie about them, but Muslims deny and lie about the Quran. And where does it tell Christians not to befriend anybody?? Where does it tell them that they will look down on those in hell and mock them when they are in heaven?? You are merely quoting from the book of Revelations which talks about God's wrath. These are things that God will do, not things that God asks men to do.
I am not defending anything "Muhammad bin Lyin"., I am merely STATING THE FACT., "that fellows like this Irish guy who can not string a proper English sentence in a post without a silly mistake are quite often very familiar with Violent verses of OT & NT and know nothing about Quran & Islam"
Oh, OK. I understand now.
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phildidge
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by phildidge »

yeezevee wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote: How does this defend Islam?? Christians don't deny these verses and lie about them, but Muslims deny and lie about the Quran. And where does it tell Christians not to befriend anybody?? Where does it tell them that they will look down on those in hell and mock them when they are in heaven?? You are merely quoting from the book of Revelations which talks about God's wrath. These are things that God will do, not things that God asks men to do.
I am not defending anything "Muhammad bin Lyin"., I am merely STATING THE FACT., "that fellows like this Irish guy who can not string a proper English sentence in a post without a silly mistake are quite often very familiar with Violent verses of OT & NT and know nothing about Quran & Islam"
That is the bases for your argument, I have made some spelling mistakes, my mum is Irish, I am British and have read for the last 5 years so much in regards to islam, does a person's IQ be dependent on spelling, have you thought that I am just not going back over my post, as I am typing fast, no problem, if this bothers you will check, what a muppet. :roflmao:
phildidge
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by phildidge »

yeezevee wrote:
phildidge wrote:Dear Muhammad bin Lyin

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao:
:rock:
great, good post.., you should add more emoticons, that will serve your purpose in ffi phildidge..
yes just like you on my spelling, that always wins.
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by RichardTheLionheart »

phildidge wrote:I am British and have read for the last 5 years so much in regards to islam
Which particular books, papers and the writers who published them are at the top of your list?

I feel I should become familiar with them myself. :turban:
Ex-Muslims needed to answer my questions: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4519 Serious posts only.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

phildidge wrote:
yeezevee wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote: How does this defend Islam?? Christians don't deny these verses and lie about them, but Muslims deny and lie about the Quran. And where does it tell Christians not to befriend anybody?? Where does it tell them that they will look down on those in hell and mock them when they are in heaven?? You are merely quoting from the book of Revelations which talks about God's wrath. These are things that God will do, not things that God asks men to do.
I am not defending anything "Muhammad bin Lyin"., I am merely STATING THE FACT., "that fellows like this Irish guy who can not string a proper English sentence in a post without a silly mistake are quite often very familiar with Violent verses of OT & NT and know nothing about Quran & Islam"
That is the bases for your argument, I have made some spelling mistakes, my mum is Irish, I am British and have read for the last 5 years so much in regards to islam, does a person's IQ be dependent on spelling, have you thought that I am just not going back over my post, as I am typing fast, no problem, if this bothers you will check, what a muppet. :roflmao:
Spelling ridiculous as ridiculas more than once is not a typo caused by fast typing. I think you are a British/Irish Pakistani because you brought up Pakistanis as opposed to other Muslims and your spelling is atrocious for someone who fancies himself to be scholarly, particularly if you went to Catholic school when you were younger. You might have been raised a Christian, but I find it curious that you defend Islam while Muslims burn churches left and right in Pakistan.

You claim all religions are false, but you seem to get particularly emotional about attacks on Muhammad. Why?? If he is false, then why bother to get upset about anything that is said about him?? You also clearly argue from an angle of obvious emotionalism, particularly about Muhammad. You have no problems bringing up any negative verses from the Bible but never want to discuss any negative verses from the Quran, or if you do, you make excuses for them.

I also find it interesting that you have read about Islam for 5 years when it seems apparent that you have never even read the Quran in it's entirety.

A ploy frequently carried about by Muslims who come on this site is to pretend they are a Christian or an Atheist because in their twisted mind, they think that this will somehow give them greater credibility. If this is what you are doing, believe me, you wouldn't be the first.

You also demand that Ali reveal his true identity, which is what so many Muslims who come here demand. Why should he?? What does it mean to you anyway?? What would it change? Ah, but see if your were a Muslim and were personally hurt by his insults of Muhammad, as Muslims always are, then it would make sense for you to demand that he give his real identity.

Many people have come here before you with the same stupid ideas. You are far from unique, no matter how much you actually thought you were.
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phildidge
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by phildidge »

Muhammad bin Lyin

I have taken this up with muslims and as you can see with numpties like you, I think I have stated this already, you really need to take note.
Theology: Religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed, so quite correct your lunatic theology, that must be 25-0 now, silly boy.

Ask yourself, are the gosples taken as authentic historical accounts of Yeshua's Life? Many scholars recognized that all four gospels were just as much a product of theology as they were of history, Mark's gospel was ahistorical and shaped by early Christian belief. It is now generally accepted that the gospel writers engaged in an anachronistic portrayal of Jesus, projecting back onto him a highly sophisticated and elaborate Risen Christ motif. Modern Western scholarship has seriously questioned the historicity and authenticity of the hadith", maintaining that "the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet Muhammad were actually written much later. If any can be shown to be forged or elaborations, then all fall under scrutiny and are deem not authentic.
I have responded to you bot actually, read back. I have stated this many times to muslims also, that they are man made later fabrications of his life, I am an athiest so do challenge where I see something is incorrect.

If Ali's argument is based on material that is not historical, it is a non-starter, let him present the paper, I would love him too, as I know I would be proved right. He claims he wants muslims to turn away from Islam, yet does so in form of incitement and hatred, that for a man of intelligence is dum, when I can show all faiths are the same, he is just has singled out islam, showing double standards, considering they all believe in the same diety, it is stupid. There are better ways to show how a faith is wrong, do you really believe it is better to create conflict, by his method? He is not the first, many have done the same throughout the centuries and what did that achieve?

You claim people are not stupid, then why incite hatred towards a faith, that is not intelligent, please explain how this is so, we have the last 2000 years of history to see how hatred creates bloodshed, how inciting trouble creates bloodshed. So you think it is intelligent to claim a person that people believe brought a message from a diety, is then called all these evil things and you think it won't incite trouble, can you please explain how that is intelligent, I am all ears?

So how does it work for the 10% of muslims that don't believe then? They just have to except this do they, when they don't believe in the hadiths, please explain this illogical statement?

Of course Richard is insulting Islam, when he states there is no God, is calling a muslim and mohammed a liar, so you are saying that is not an insult, oh dear me, no wonder your logic is so all over the place.
So now Western scholars who refute claims on mohammed, is not insulting either :roflmao: you really are talking out of your huge behind.

Ali has made claims on the character of mohammed, so he could be done for defamation of character.
A certain american pastor is going to take mohammed to court. Now shut my gob, is that the best you can do sweet cheeks, ha ha ha.


So now you are saying inciting and preaching hatred does not create more, man do you know nothing of the last 200o years, okay start with the hatred of the Jews in the 20th century, this should be good?

I think you are finally getting it one verse says not to kill innocents, we have another verse in the gosple speak of peace and love and others that say to shun others, all it shows is the contradictions of the written works in all the faiths, so are they evil? No, only those who teach an evil interpretation are evil, majority of muslims, Jews and christians are peace loving people, it is idiots that try and instill hatred though that make the faiths look bad and idiots that claim they are evil, both as bad as each other and equally stupid. As to being debunked, ha ha ha, yeah right oh, keep dreaming.
Last edited by phildidge on Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
phildidge
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by phildidge »

Muhammad bin Lyin

So now I am now Pakistani, ha ha, no my Father is Maltese/Scilian, as to my spelling, well if you wish me to check, fine, I am at work and try to get in a quick response, I did not realise this was such a big deal, if it is, sorry but tough luck, it still does not win the debate, you can try and make me out to be someone all you like, I will still run rings around your posts, as I have been doing from the start.

All religions are false and no not emotional against mohammed, but against idiots like yourself, that promote hatred, I do the same for people that make incorrect statements against Jews and christians also, basically, you want to create war with muslims by incitment, that is not intelligent, but basically very dim, we have seen this countless times in history. I never get upset, another assumption, which many here are full of I just show up how silly your claims are and get you worked up dancing to my tune, it is so easy, look how long this thread has been going and you are all still trying to prove your claim of hatred, so who really is up set here, not me but many who keep responding.

There are many negative verses in the quran, does that make the faith evil, no, all of them have the same, hence why they are man made forms of controlling people. If people wish to believe in nonsense, then thay can be my guest, if they try and kill in the name of a faith, I will stand up against them, if people try to claim something is evil, I will stand up against stupidity, is simple really.

You make many claims in regard to what I have done, yet this is your only response and I quote " you must be pakistani, you have not read the quran ect ect" this is all you do to debate, is fine with me, it does not win your point though.

I am sure some christians and muslims do, do you wish to think I am also, is this how you are left and have exhausted all lines of debate and left to trying to claim I am this and that, love it, carry on mate.
I never demanded he reveal his identity, that is a lie, I said why does he not reveal, I will wait your apology for being wrong again.
Last edited by phildidge on Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Chiclets »

No, Islam does not deserve respect. It's an idea, and a spectacularly bad one, at that. Ideas are not deserving of respect.
Treat people with respect, because that's simply respecting oneself. Ideas, though, are fair game, and bad ideas exist only to be destroyed.
gupsfu wrote:When someone uses the "taken out of context" argument without explaining what it's really supposed to mean, you know he's lying.
Muslims are so secure in their faith that they need to kill those who don’t share it.
phildidge
Posts: 414
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:55 pm

Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by phildidge »

Chiclets wrote:No, Islam does not deserve respect. It's an idea, and a spectacularly bad one, at that. Ideas are not deserving of respect.
Treat people with respect, because that's simply respecting oneself. Ideas, though, are fair game, and bad ideas exist only to be destroyed.
So you wish only for war then?
Idesigner
Posts: 1867
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:51 pm

Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Idesigner »

Phildge you did not respond about conversions of muslims to christianity in Egypt. Large scale conversion in Bonghistan and Iraq.

Qute some sources.

Government of Egypt does not recognise conversion to christianity and you are telling me that conversions are allowed. Spouse has to divorce muslim partner. Show me such laws in your native Ireland, England. Ask your muslim friends. If you want to do dawah , go to some better Islamic school. :*)

If muslim still convert to christianity, it tell me lots about how bad is Islam.
Idesigner
Posts: 1867
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:51 pm

Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Idesigner »

phildidge wrote:
Chiclets wrote:No, Islam does not deserve respect. It's an idea, and a spectacularly bad one, at that. Ideas are not deserving of respect.
Treat people with respect, because that's simply respecting oneself. Ideas, though, are fair game, and bad ideas exist only to be destroyed.
So you wish only for war then?
Islam does not respect Kaffirs still I dont believe in going to war with them. I will fight their ideology. Hound them and expose their lies.
crazymonkie_
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:01 am

Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by crazymonkie_ »

phildidge wrote:Ask yourself, are the gosples taken as authentic historical accounts of Yeshua's Life? Many scholars recognized that all four gospels were just as much a product of theology as they were of history, Mark's gospel was ahistorical and shaped by early Christian belief. It is now generally accepted that the gospel writers engaged in an anachronistic portrayal of Jesus, projecting back onto him a highly sophisticated and elaborate Risen Christ motif. Modern Western scholarship has seriously questioned the historicity and authenticity of the hadith", maintaining that "the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet Muhammad were actually written much later.
Source! (after the header "Keyrgmatic Sources for the Jesus Movement). So a fake atheist, fake historian, and now plagiarist. My my- quite the list we've got going, ed phil? You could have at least TRIED to use your own words. All I did was copy and paste the quote above into google and lo and behold- you were exposed.

Sorry... as a REAL teacher (just finishing my first semester teaching at the college level, and about three years' experience with elementary school) plagiarism makes me want to puke. But sure, keep digging a hole for yourself. Your debating skills just got that much more pathetic with that little stupid decision (un-cited sources)
If any can be shown to be forged or elaborations, then all fall under scrutiny and are deem not authentic.
There's a difference between "authentic" and "true." And someone who was not a Muslim pretending to be an atheist would know that. The Gospels are not necessarily true in the strictest (post-18th century Western historiographical) sense, not necessarily to be taken as very accurate accounts of events as they happened, but they are authentic in that they are BELIEVED to be true, and historically- and theologically- that's what matters.

Same with the Quran and ahadith, especially for Ali Sina's challenge. It doesn't matter if Muhammad never existed as a real man- what matters is that those authentic sources are believed to be true, and that the 'truth' of the Quran and ahadith convicts Muhammad as a really nasty individual.

Of course, someone who went to Catholic school (especially if one is older- say 40 or more years old) would have known that. It's very basic classical knowledge, you lying plagiarist Muslim.
I am an athiest so do challenge where I see something is incorrect.
If you are an atheist (I'm not convinced), you're certainly not an ex-Catholic. Nobody but a Muslim or ex-Muslim with a LOT of cultural baggage would defend Islam, Muhammad, or the Quran's "historical context" (while somehow also saying most or all of the ahadith are untrue.... even though THAT'S where the "context" comes from).

If you were an ex-Catholic, you'd be going after the New Testament. You've barely touched it... except to do ANOTHER obviously Muslim thing, and blame Paul (you're THIS CLOSE to outing yourself- you've nearly said "cunning Paul"- a dead giveaway "buzz term" for Muslims talking about Christianity) for changing/corrupting Christianity. Again: NO EX-CHRISTIAN WOULD DO THIS. You are a liar, a cheat, and a stealer.
He claims he wants muslims to turn away from Islam, yet does so in form of incitement and hatred, that for a man of intelligence is dum, when I can show all faiths are the same, he is just has singled out islam, showing double standards, considering they all believe in the same diety, it is stupid.
A couple of things here: The point of Ali Sina's challenge is to show that Islam is, at its core, a hateful ideology. Read Sura 2 and tell me there's not hatred in there. Second, where's the incitement and hatred? It seems like it's always only Muslims who get upset about theological discussions, or take "insults" to "the prophet" or their god personally (evidence: you do the same level of "incitement" with Christians, or Jews, or, hey just for fun, Buddhists, and what happens? Maybe a verbal fight, but rarely anything else). It's just talking, in other words. If it's incitement, it's only something that would happen anyway: It's something inherent in Islam (NOT the cultures it swallowed up- Pakistan's Sikh's don't do this) that causes this sense of intense personal distress with anything to do with Islam that believers don't want to hear gets mentioned.
Third: NO, IT IS NOT THE SAME DEITY, you lying, cheating, stealing fake ex-Catholic. Now I KNOW you're lying, because there's definitely no Christian who would say that- ex- or current.
There are better ways to show how a faith is wrong,
Like semaphore codes?
do you really believe it is better to create conflict, by his method? He is not the first, many have done the same throughout the centuries and what did that achieve?
Again: This is a problem with Islam itself. The tiniest perceived insult is taken to heart and becomes the flash point for violent reactions against the offender, or anyone that seems kind of like the offender. There are too many examples to list- but one that comes to my mind was the murder of several UN workers in Afghanistan (a mob STORMED A FORTIFIED COMPOUND) after a loony Christian preacher in Floridiot- er, sorry, Florida- burned a Quran (which could have been an English translation, for all we know).

Muslims should not be indulged, they should not be excused, and they should not be forgiven their responsibilities as people of the modern age to grow up and stop getting pissy every time someone does something they don't like regarding their precious, fragile little religion.
You claim people are not stupid, then why incite hatred towards a faith, that is not intelligent, please explain how this is so, we have the last 2000 years of history to see how hatred creates bloodshed, how inciting trouble creates bloodshed.
It's not hatred. Muslims have no excuse- they're just being infantile. Children angry that Santa Claus doesn't exist, or that the Tooth Fairy is really their parents putting loose change under their pillow for their baby teeth. Tell your people, plagiarizing Muslim, to stop being childish.
Ali has made claims on the character of mohammed, so he could be done for defamation of character.
A certain american pastor is going to take mohammed to court. Now shut my gob, is that the best you can do sweet cheeks, ha ha ha.
Problem: Ali Sina is using the sources that Muslims see as authentic. Again, look further up in this post to understand the difference between authentic and true, and to see just how much of an ass you've made yourself.
So now you are saying inciting and preaching hatred does not create more, man do you know nothing of the last 200o years, okay start with the hatred of the Jews in the 20th century, this should be good?
Deflection, and more tu quoque- as MBL has said in a lot of other threads (in other ways), pointing out holes in others' boats while yours is sinking doesn't mean the holes in your boat don't exist. You're the OP, and started talking about Islam. When that went sour, you started doing the standard Muslim thing and deflecting attention from your own failings by talking about other religions.
only those who teach an evil interpretation are evil, majority of muslims, Jews and christians are peace loving people, it is idiots that try and instill hatred though that make the faiths look bad and idiots that claim they are evil, both as bad as each other and equally stupid.
First of all: Judaism already makes allowances for historical changes and god's law- they had to. There are no more Levites, and for that reason alone, they can't follow the Mosaic laws perfectly. And certainly no Catholic can, right phil? :roflmao:
*Ahem*, anyway- my point is, Judaism already has some flexibility. The laws are in place until humans can no longer abide by them.
Christianity (as I'm SURE you know, being an ex-Catholic :lol: ) has the idea of the New Covenant, which also means that certain laws (quite a few of them) can be ignored. So there goes that excuse.
Now Islam- Where in the Quran does it say that any of the commands or laws in that book (no, don't look to ahadith- you can't tell us which are authentic or false, and why) are NOT for all time? Where does it say that the command to not take Jews and Christians as friends is not timeless? Where does it say that 9.29 was only for a little while? How, in fact, can a context-less and disorganized book like the Quran claim to be "historical" or have context in that sense? The short answer is: It can't. The laws and commands are for all time unless otherwise stated.... and historically, that's what the "Medinan" verses did to the "Meccan" verses.

But, keep acting like you're winning, and that you're an atheist ex-Catholic, and that you're not a plagiarist, and that you're actually fooling anyone. It's entertaining to all of us.
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Chiclets
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Re: I think Ali will have to pay up

Post by Chiclets »

phildidge wrote:
Chiclets wrote:No, Islam does not deserve respect. It's an idea, and a spectacularly bad one, at that. Ideas are not deserving of respect.
Treat people with respect, because that's simply respecting oneself. Ideas, though, are fair game, and bad ideas exist only to be destroyed.
So you wish only for war then?
?????

Can you please indulge me and reveal how you came to that conclusion from my post.
gupsfu wrote:When someone uses the "taken out of context" argument without explaining what it's really supposed to mean, you know he's lying.
Muslims are so secure in their faith that they need to kill those who don’t share it.
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