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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:53 pm
by sum
Hello YahooChatIslam1

Will you be telling us why Muhammad married so many women?

sum

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:59 pm
by SAM
sum wrote:Hello YahooChatIslam1

Will you be telling us why Muhammad married so many women?

sum
Hello sum... The questions can be answered by a student at the Madrasah.. :)

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:42 pm
by sum
Hello SAM

You suggest that students should be able to answer the question. Is this because YahooChatIslam1 is unable to give an answer?

sum

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:12 am
by SAM
sum wrote:Hello SAM

You suggest that students should be able to answer the question. Is this because YahooChatIslam1 is unable to give an answer?

sum
I don't think so... he's smart enough to know how to give you a useful answer.

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:28 pm
by darth
YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
What practical solution? Polygamy is not a practical solution.
I asked you about the description of a practical solution. I did not ask you to tell me what is not a practical solution.
Let us understand a few things first.

It was wars that caused the number of women to outnumber men. The wars that were started by your prophet. A better solution would have been for your prophet not to have been a war monger.

Secondly, if your "prophet" had started a women's army unit, the women would not have outnumbered men because they too would have died in the wars started by your prophet.

Thirdly, even if women outnumber men who told you that every woman needed a man? Many may choose to be single. Very rarely do they "choose" to be part of a harem. (In your "prophet"'s case many of his women were booty from war, were they not?. And your prophet's home life was so full of strife that he needed divine verses to help him out of many situations. Some "practical" solution...)

You ask, what would those single women do if they wanted children. Who told you that every single women wants to have babies or be owned by men. Ever heard of sperm banks (oops, I forgot your prophet was not scientifically advanced to think of one). Most women I know would rather have a baby using a sperm from a sperm bank rather than be a part of a harem.

You ask for a practical solution, but modern societies have superior practical solutions. Polygamy is not legal and everyone has a choice - to be married or not, to stay single or not, to be married and have children or not, to have children as a single parent or not. You call the children of single parents "bastards" with the intention of belittling them. But these "bastards" of the West have achieved much more than children of your polygamous families.

The excuses that you muslims come up with -
Mo married ayesha to teach her about islam (Hmm, could he not have done this without marrying and having sex with a nine year old)
Mo married safiya to protect her (Hmm, as a "prophet" he could not give her protection without having sex with her)
Mo married his cousin to show people that they can marry their adopted son's wives (this one is the stupidest of all )

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:39 pm
by darth
And one more things, YahooChatIslam1 -

None of mo's wives could marry after his death because of the quranic verse preventing them from doing so. Consider this, ayesha, when mo died was 18, safiya must have been in her 20s. So they had to spend the rest of her life as celibates, without children. That was the "practical" solution that your "prophet" had for them. But for his enemies wives and daughters his "practical" solution was sex slavery, concubinage, harem etc.

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:17 pm
by SAM
darth wrote:And one more things, YahooChatIslam1 -

None of mo's wives could marry after his death because of the quranic verse preventing them from doing so. Consider this, ayesha, when mo died was 18, safiya must have been in her 20s. So they had to spend the rest of her life as celibates, without children. That was the "practical" solution that your "prophet" had for them. But for his enemies wives and daughters his "practical" solution was sex slavery, concubinage, harem etc.
Despite all you claim to know from reliable source or you've find evidence for it in the Qur'an.. It's clearly you know nothing Muhammad's teaching..

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:15 pm
by darth
SAM wrote:
darth wrote:And one more things, YahooChatIslam1 -

None of mo's wives could marry after his death because of the quranic verse preventing them from doing so. Consider this, ayesha, when mo died was 18, safiya must have been in her 20s. So they had to spend the rest of her life as celibates, without children. That was the "practical" solution that your "prophet" had for them. But for his enemies wives and daughters his "practical" solution was sex slavery, concubinage, harem etc.
Despite all you claim to know from reliable source or you've find evidence for it in the Qur'an.. It's clearly you know nothing Muhammad's teaching..
quran 33.53 -
Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time.

If you have anything of sense to say, SAM, say it. If you want to refute the above quranic verse, then refute it. Don't waste our time with useless comments.

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:09 am
by YahooChatIslam1
darth wrote:
quran 33.53 -
Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time.

If you have anything of sense to say, SAM, say it. If you want to refute the above quranic verse, then refute it. Don't waste our time with useless comments.
1: The wives were offered to seek divorce if they preferred worldly comforts.
2: The prophet was advised to let whoever wants to seek divorce, and in a handsome manner.

3: They all decided to stay married with the prophet.
4: The verse only prohibits the marriage with widow of the prophet, not a divorcee.

A further condition to be applied on a wife of the prophet because the quran says:
5: The wives of the prophet were warned of double the penalty for crossing the limits set for other muslim women.

In conclusion: It would have been easier for any wife to seek divorce, sent away with wealth and in handsome manner but they chose to remain wives of the prophet with all those conditions placed on such high status.

I could have given you the relevant verses which I have just read; but considering your attitude; I will let you search them by yourself.

The age of Aisha ra is disputable. Some put it at 15 years, and other estimates put it at 19 years at the time of consummation. I am not obliged to discuss this further at this point.

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:39 am
by ThereIs1Adonai
The subject is not divorce of Muhammad's wives, but of their inability to marry again when widowed. This is a special rule for them that left them without a husband the rest of their lives. He was apparently still jealous of them after death.

You are not obliged to discuss anything on here, but using that comment about not being obliged to discuss Aisha's age when Mohammad had sex with her, or her not consenting for that matter, is a way of saying you have no real rebuttal left. Her own statements tell the story, and I think what she said carries more weight than what Muslims say to convince themselves and others that Mohammad was not a pedophile rapist of a 9 year old child.

Some of your arguments are that she had her period. Others are she was older. Although you are not obliged to discuss it further, I will ask you: Which is it? Was she older or did she have her period at 9? These are just the usual misguided, contradictory answers we see from Muslims who cannot fathom their "prophet" being less than perfect, and indeed sinful.

Peace, Shalom

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:20 am
by SAM
darth wrote:
SAM wrote:
darth wrote:And one more things, YahooChatIslam1 -

None of mo's wives could marry after his death because of the quranic verse preventing them from doing so. Consider this, ayesha, when mo died was 18, safiya must have been in her 20s. So they had to spend the rest of her life as celibates, without children. That was the "practical" solution that your "prophet" had for them. But for his enemies wives and daughters his "practical" solution was sex slavery, concubinage, harem etc.
Despite all you claim to know from reliable source or you've find evidence for it in the Qur'an.. It's clearly you know nothing Muhammad's teaching..
quran 33.53 -
Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time.

If you have anything of sense to say, SAM, say it. If you want to refute the above quranic verse, then refute it. Don't waste our time with useless comments.
As I said,"It's clearly you know nothing Muhammad's teaching."

Quran 33:53 It is not for you to cause hurt to God's Messenger, as it is unlawful for you ever to marry his widows after him. That (marrying his widows) would be an enormity in God's sight....

Did you know you what does the Ahl al-Bayt(THE HOUSEHOLD) mean to you ? Pls answer me...

It is addressed to a group of people and the wives of the Prophet in their capacity as members of Ahl Albayt... In which Allah says: “And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, you Ahl al-Bayt (People of the House), and to make you pure and spotless.”

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:29 am
by ThereIs1Adonai
SAM wrote: It is addressed to a group of people and the wives of the Prophet in their capacity as members of Ahl Albayt... In which Allah says: “And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, you Ahl al-Bayt (People of the House), and to make you pure and spotless.”
SAM, that is the point being made, which is that Mohammad wrote the book to give different rules for himself and his family than for others, in order to satisfy his own desires. His widows could not remarry, but he married the widows of those he slaughtered. Can you not see the evidence that this was not from God, but Mohammad creating the rules for his own reasons?

It is certainly not for purity, given that some of those wives had already been with other men. If purity was needed, Mohammad would have been prohibited from taking any woman as a wife who was not a virgin. That would prohibit the widows.

Mohammad just made it up as he want along according to what he wanted, and the double standards and hypocrisy of the Quran show it.

Peace, Shalom

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:43 am
by YahooChatIslam1
ThereIs1Adonai wrote:
The subject is not divorce of Muhammad's wives, but of their inability to marry again when widowed.
Clearly, some people have trouble joining simple dots. If you read my previous post, you will realise that the wives knowing their exclusive high status decided in favour of that rule, and accepted it because all the verses had been revealed prior to the death of the prophet.

The wives could have taken the route of raising objections as they wanted to whatever rules applied to them; and also saught separation from the prophet with handsome wealth reward at any time before the prophet died.

If that separation was to happen, of which the wives were given the clear option, the rule of "not marrying with widows" would NOT apply to them.

Obvious gaps in the argument exposes bigotted minds amongst people. How is that so? I will not elaborate it because if you people were honest, you wouldnt need such explanations.

Do you want me to carry on spoon feeding you?

And, yes, thanks for informing me about what I am not obliged to do here.

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:42 am
by SAM
ThereIs1Adonai wrote:
SAM wrote: It is addressed to a group of people and the wives of the Prophet in their capacity as members of Ahl Albayt... In which Allah says: “And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, you Ahl al-Bayt (People of the House), and to make you pure and spotless.”
SAM, that is the point being made, which is that Mohammad wrote the book to give different rules for himself and his family than for others, in order to satisfy his own desires. His widows could not remarry, but he married the widows of those he slaughtered.
Again this is totally false.... misconception leads you to the poor in all fields of knowledge of Islamic doctrine. (Muhammad's teaching)
Can you not see the evidence that this was not from God, but Mohammad creating the rules for his own reasons?
Totally incorrect! What you consider as an evidence with you it. It is that you can't see the connection and the correlation between this subjects..
It is certainly not for purity, given that some of those wives had already been with other men. If purity was needed, Mohammad would have been prohibited from taking any woman as a wife who was not a virgin. That would prohibit the widows.

Mohammad just made it up as he want along according to what he wanted, and the double standards and hypocrisy of the Quran show it.

Peace, Shalom
You do NOT know the sources of information, if you did, you'd know that your sources are your own brain or out all of your assumptions as part of that supports your thoughts and ignores the information that contradicts to it without any additional thought...am I right!..

I know more than you think you know because I am part of the Purity...but have not yet been fully "Knight of Purity" :*)

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:44 pm
by darth
YahooChatIslam1 wrote:ThereIs1Adonai wrote:
The subject is not divorce of Muhammad's wives, but of their inability to marry again when widowed.
Clearly, some people have trouble joining simple dots. If you read my previous post, you will realise that the wives knowing their exclusive high status decided in favour of that rule, and accepted it because all the verses had been revealed prior to the death of the prophet.
Seriously, you think they were going to exchange their position, wealth, power with the prophet (warlord) to being non entities again? Your really think that was a "choice"?

And were they given the "choice" not to remarry after his death? Are the quranic verses a "choice". Do not lie.

No, this condition after mohammad's death was not their choice. It was forced on them regardless of the fact that they were young and they had no children.
(Ayesha was probably so bored (since islamic women could do nothing much else) that she started a war that killed thousands of muslims...)

The wives were in the same state that you insist makes polygamy necessary. Basically your prophet chose the condition of spinsterhood, celibacy, barrenness for his wives after his death. So don't try and come and spout nonsense to us about how bad spinsterhood, celibacy etc. are bad and how polygamy is an institution to relieve this. Either way shows your prophet to be a hypocrit. (If protecting widows had been the only objective then safiya could have been given to diya as well. But he saw her and decided he wanted her himself, did he not?)

Basically, your prophet
a) Caused women to outnumber men by wars
b) Captured women in wars to satisfy his own desires and that of his men

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:46 pm
by ringmaster
Amusing how the likes of SAM and YahooChatislam twist words and use mental gymnastics to twist and attempt to cleanse the filth of their religion and its teachings.

Their other very clear MO, when they realize they are in a corner, is to be condescending (words such as "you don't understand").

Insofar as interpreting the filth of the koran is concerned, the following can be said.

It doesn't matter what SAM says.

It doesn't matter what YahooChatislam says.

It doesn't matter what darth says.

It doesn't matter what I say.


What matters is what the Tafsirs say. Here is the Tafsir of Al Jalalayn.

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Bottom line:

Darth has interpreted verse 33-53 correctly. Verse 33-53 is just another example of the prophet being a manwhore. Allah is the god of the vagina.

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:55 pm
by ThereIs1Adonai
@ SAM and YahooChatIslam

I feel not need to respond to your posts since Ringmaster and Darth have answered so succinctly. Your mind games do not phase me. The Quran says what it says, and you have great difficulty explaining it away. So you resort to insults. Do you really think I am troubled by something a total stranger says on an Internet site? I've read the books (Bible and Quran) and I find the Quran seriously lacking in common sense. Worse, is the interpretations given by Muslims in attempts to explain away the obvious. I realize that admitting the Quran was not given by God, and is indeed the work of Mohammad for his own purposes, would crash your whole belief system. Nevertheless, truth is truth. You might try opening your minds to some of the things said on here, and at least consider that Mohammad may have deceived you.

Peace, Shalom

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:31 pm
by SAM
ringmaster wrote:Amusing how the likes of SAM and YahooChatislam twist words and use mental gymnastics to twist and attempt to cleanse the filth of their religion and its teachings.

Their other very clear MO, when they realize they are in a corner, is to be condescending (words such as "you don't understand").

Insofar as interpreting the filth of the koran is concerned, the following can be said.

It doesn't matter what SAM says.

It doesn't matter what YahooChatislam says.

It doesn't matter what darth says.

It doesn't matter what I say.


What matters is what the Tafsirs say. Here is the Tafsir of Al Jalalayn.

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Bottom line:

Darth has interpreted verse 33-53 correctly. Verse 33-53 is just another example of the prophet being a manwhore. Allah is the god of the vagina.
Because you do not have the acquisition of Knowledge of Islam (ilm) it is one of the most essential requirement of us (human being) to know.
Al-Baqarah 2:151...Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know.

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:40 pm
by SAM
ThereIs1Adonai wrote:@ SAM and YahooChatIslam

I feel not need to respond to your posts since Ringmaster and Darth have answered so succinctly. Your mind games do not phase me. The Quran says what it says, and you have great difficulty explaining it away. So you resort to insults. Do you really think I am troubled by something a total stranger says on an Internet site? I've read the books (Bible and Quran) and I find the Quran seriously lacking in common sense. Worse, is the interpretations given by Muslims in attempts to explain away the obvious. I realize that admitting the Quran was not given by God, and is indeed the work of Mohammad for his own purposes, would crash your whole belief system. Nevertheless, truth is truth. You might try opening your minds to some of the things said on here, and at least consider that Mohammad may have deceived you.

Peace, Shalom
Bear in your mind..... I am what I am. Iblis succeeded brilliantly and very easily in deceiving Adam including you but not Muhammad.. :heh:

Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:10 pm
by ThereIs1Adonai
SAM wrote:
ThereIs1Adonai wrote:@ SAM and YahooChatIslam

I feel not need to respond to your posts since Ringmaster and Darth have answered so succinctly. Your mind games do not phase me. The Quran says what it says, and you have great difficulty explaining it away. So you resort to insults. Do you really think I am troubled by something a total stranger says on an Internet site? I've read the books (Bible and Quran) and I find the Quran seriously lacking in common sense. Worse, is the interpretations given by Muslims in attempts to explain away the obvious. I realize that admitting the Quran was not given by God, and is indeed the work of Mohammad for his own purposes, would crash your whole belief system. Nevertheless, truth is truth. You might try opening your minds to some of the things said on here, and at least consider that Mohammad may have deceived you.

Peace, Shalom
Bear in your mind..... I am what I am. Iblis succeeded brilliantly and very easily in deceiving Adam including you but not Muhammad.. :heh:

I did not say Mohammad was deceived, but rather that he was the great deceiver of Islam. His statements about what Allah supposedly said made him a virtual king over his people, created a strong army he used to rape, pillage, plunder, and destroy any who opposed him. He used what he said to give him women who belonged to other men, a child, and many concubines in violation of the very words others were meant to follow and obey. His words were not the words of a god, but self-serving. If you cannot see that, you are the deceived one and not I. Your very comment that Mohammad could not have been deceived shows you have made him to be a god and not human. Any human can be deceived, including Mohammad.... and you.

Peace, Shalom