Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

His life, his examples and his psychology
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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

YahooChatIslam1 wrote:Cassie Wrote:
Besides, a 60-100 ratio doesn't justify 4-1 polygamy.
60/100 means, 60 men to every 100 women. Does it justify polygamy at all; at any ratio? Would you recommend for every 40/100 women?
No. I don't recommend it at all. I think polygamy is evil.
YCI1 wrote:
It wasn't a 25-100 ratio, was it? It was a 60-100 ratio as you claimed. Hence you are completely wrong.
Perhaps you do not know the content of the verse in question. The pivotal point in the verse is:

1: Justice must be the driving force, because it is written 'marry only 1 if you can not do justice'. The verse does NOT say "EVERY man MUST marry 4, NOT 1, 2, or 3." Your interpretation of 25/100 is against the verse.
1. Does your verse say it is only when the ratio of males to females are imbalanced? No.
2. In a society where the ratio is close to 1:1 polygamy of any number is evil.
3. So why 4? It's arbitrary and polygamy is still evil.
YCI1 wrote:Cassie wrote:
Your second assertion about the 22 bastards out of every 100 children is a non-sequitar. How does that even prove that polygamy has anything to do with children born out of wedlock?
You have misunderstood what I have said. Bastards have always existed throughout history. I pointed out particular sharp increase of 22% at the end of 2nd world war and abundance in women. Do you not to see the correlation? If 22% of new generation being born out of wedlock was the norm in history then please quote some examples in support of your case.
You haven't shown the link between polygamy and children born out of wedlock.
So what if there was a 22% increase in bastards at the end of WWII? Are you saying that a child whose father is a polygamist is better for the child? Your Muslim thinking is showing again.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

YCI1 wrote:
Cassie Wrote:
What about sex slaves? Is there EVER a period when taking sex slaves is okay? Is war a valid moral excuse to make women captives into sex slaves?
1: It is against the teachings of Quran to enslave anyone. The Quran has verse about freeing of already owned slaves.
2: It is against the teachings of Quran to capture anyone innocent.
3: Any non-muslim women taken captives were captured from the battlefield. Not kidnapped from their homes.
4: Those non-muslim women captives were either freed in compensation of the damages incured in the battle or married to.
5: Muslim women captured by the enemy were treated as slaves.
Don't lie. Muslims, beginning with Muhammad, have always captured women and made them into slaves, and even sex slaves. This is in Islamic history, man. It is not against the teachings of the Quran to enslave anyone. It may have said that it is good to free individual slaves, but it also made it okay to keep slaves (Right Hand Possessions).

What women were on the battlefield in the vast history of humanity when only men fought? Do you think it is okay to enslave women you capture on the battlefield and make them into sex slaves?

Do you think women would marry their enemies who killed their families and wrecked their countries? What kind of idiots do you think women are? Do you think Iraqi and Afghani women would marry American soldiers who just killed their husbands, fathers and sons?

Don't lie about women being freed by Muslims. Your entire history is one of rape and pillage. Muhammad even raped and traded sex slaves he captured when he raided villages, for example Saffiyah and Rayhanna.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

By the way, I have answered your questions, but you have not answered mine.

Is the Quran for all time or only for times of war? Please answer.

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YahooChatIslam1
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by YahooChatIslam1 »

Cassie Wrote:
No. I don't recommend it at all. I think polygamy is evil.
Well, you have suggested before that polygamy is evil but you have not responded to the concern of high number of bastards being born or the high number of women without husbands.

I appreciate your questions. I hope we can tackle each question one at a time.

So my question is on the same theme. What to do with 40 out of 100 women? I would like you to give me a list of possible solutions and options available please.

[There was a reason for me to hide the content of last part of my answer. I had color coded it the same as the background for good reason. You displayed it and then went onto respond to it. I did not want you to respond to it as yet.]
16:10 - And upon Allah rests the showing of the right way, and there are ways which deviate from the right course. And if He had enforced His Will, He would have guided you all.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

Hey, YCI1, get over the medieval concept of 'bastards'. We in the west have gotten over it. Nobody cares whether someone's father is married to his/her mother anymore. What's the big deal? That sort of stigmatization of a child is savage. We don't do that in the West anymore. It's because we're enlightened, progressive and modern.

By the way, the increase in bastards is small. You misrepresented the increase. I looked up where you got the info and it says that the number went up from 10-15% in normal times to 22%. That is only a very small increase, Yahoo. You tried to make out as if it was a big problem. In fact, I would say that, in general, children in the West, bastards or not, are/were better off in our societies than in yours. I'd go so far to say that better a bastard than the child of an evil polygamist.

You also failed to take into consideration the children born from rapes. That increase in the number of children born out of wedlock can easily / mostly be explained by such a phenomenon. Did you know that the Russians raped up to 2 million German women? That could certainly explain why the number of "bastards" increased from 10-15% to 22%.

Also, there were many sexual liaisons outside the usual institution of marriage because people in wartimes could not get married, particularly if they were soldiers. It is common knowledge that couples were psychologically more likely to have sex before the male partners went to war - many would not return and they knew it.

You see - there are many reasons to explain the demographics of postwar Europe.

What to do with the 40 out of 100 women in a very specific period of human history? Let them deal with it themselves. We in the West dealt with it without resorting to polygamy. We ended up just fine - in fact our societies are far better, more humane and progressive than anything in dar al Islam. The corollary is the finding that in some Muslim societies, men far outnumber women - why then is polygamy still allowed? You'd think that in Qatar where men outnumber women 2:1, polyandry would be allowed and polygamy outlawed, by your (flawed) reasoning.

Don't play games, buddy. Your "codes" don't show up when you're quoted. So, please quite stalling and answer my question: Is the Quran for all times or only for war.

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RozaBal
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

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Cassie wrote:Where does the Quran say polygamy is only to be practised during war? Which verse, RozaBal? Stop telling lies.
It is not lie Cassie but u want to earn renumeration w/o doing labour. Learn Arabic and read & understand Quran and see the context of that commandments, that came after Battle of Ohad in which many many Muslims were martyred & numbers of men was offset by number of women and was a spate of orphans

Number of wives of Prophet Muhammad and MARRIAGE WITH HAZRAT AYESHA 622 CE: - THE TRUTH

Contrary to the Imamist propaganda of Liar Persian Zoroastrian Hadith Imams like freak Bokhari and others, the exalted Prophet had no more than one wife at a time. And Hazrat Ayesha was a sister, not daughter of Hazrat Abu Bakr. The Prophet Muhamamd (S) did not marry for three years after Hazrat Khadijah's demise in Makkah three years before Hijrah.
Hazrat Ayesha was the widow of a martyr, Saleh bin Saleh Al-'Ataib. She was 48 years old at the time of marriage to the exalted Prophet. Sahaba Kiraam [companions of Prophet] including Hazrat Abu Bakr strongly recommended that the Prophet (S) and she got into the solemn union of marriage. The blessed wedding took place in 622 CE when Muhammad (S) was 52 years old.

MOST AUTHENTIC REFERENCES:
1- Kitab-e-Dalail-e-Nabawwut Syedna Muhammad (S), by Historian Abdul Jabbar, written 150 years before Criminal imam Tabari, the first ever 'canonized' historian.
2- Azwaaj-in-Nabi wal Ashaab, by Sheikh Hammad bin Hakam.

The rest is nothing but slanderous imagination of Persian Zoroastrian Hadith imams, the Magian Zoroastrian "Imam" Tabari and the Jewish biographer Ibn Ishaq and his Parsi follower Ibn Hisham

Online reference: new : http://smalur.com/1+g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"True history and False Believes" -Read at page: 151
Last edited by RozaBal on Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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YahooChatIslam1
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by YahooChatIslam1 »

Cassie wrote:
Hey, YCI1, get over the medieval concept of 'bastards'. We in the west have gotten over it. Nobody cares whether someone's father is married to his/her mother anymore. What's the big deal?
Lets look at this more objectively.

1 man / 1 woman.
60 Men married to 60 Women. => 0 unmarried men remaining. 40 unmarried women remaining.

So you are OK with the idea of 40 unmarried women out of 100 to enjoy the 60 married husbands of other married women?
16:10 - And upon Allah rests the showing of the right way, and there are ways which deviate from the right course. And if He had enforced His Will, He would have guided you all.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

Yahoo,
Who told you that the 40 unmarried women necessarily has to commit ADULTERY with married men? What is the difference between ADULTERY and POLYGAMY? The former is a lesser evil than the latter because it doesn't demean women. Polygamy as a practice is evil on so many levels. That is why we in the West have outlawed it.

What happens in societies when men outnumber women? Do you then have polyandry? Let's be fair.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

RozaBal wrote:
Cassie wrote:Where does the Quran say polygamy is only to be practised during war? Which verse, RozaBal? Stop telling lies.
It is not lie Cassie but u want to earn renumeration w/o doing labour. Learn Arabic and read & understand Quran and see the context of that commandments, that came after Battle of Ohad in which many many Muslims were martyred & numbers of men was offset by number of women and was a spate of orphans
Show us the verse, RozaBal. Don't lie.

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YahooChatIslam1
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by YahooChatIslam1 »

SO FAR, Cassie has acknowledged that:

1) Bastard producing societies of the West are more progressive.
2) It is OK to produce bastards in large numbers.

My question is:

So you are OK with the idea of 40 unmarried women out of 100 to enjoy the 60 married husbands of other married women?

Lets assume all of our people are non-religious, atheists.

Do the 40 unmarried women not share other women's husbands?

Cassie, do you want to deny that there is any sort of Husband sharing in the scenario that I have described?
16:10 - And upon Allah rests the showing of the right way, and there are ways which deviate from the right course. And if He had enforced His Will, He would have guided you all.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

YahooChatIslam1 wrote:SO FAR, Cassie has acknowledged that:

1) Bastard producing societies of the West are more progressive.
2) It is OK to produce bastards in large numbers.

My question is:

So you are OK with the idea of 40 unmarried women out of 100 to enjoy the 60 married husbands of other married women?

Lets assume all of our people are non-religious, atheists.

Do the 40 unmarried women not share other women's husbands?

Cassie, do you want to deny that there is any sort of Husband sharing in the scenario that I have described?
How do you know that the 40 unmarried women 'SHARED' other women's husbands?

If they did, what's that to do with you?

The small increase in children born out of wedlock in postwar Europe could be due to other factors that you never considered such as:
1. The 2 million women raped by the USSR army - which probably produced lots of rape babies;
2. Couples in wartime romances were more likely to have sexual relations because of the great chance the men would never return - and marriage was not possible in such conditions. In other words, children born out of wedlock could and probably resulted from romantic liaisons between two unmarried people who would have been married in normal circumstances.


You misrepresented the increase in the numbers of children born out of wedlock, and misconstrued that increase as proving that women were STEALING other women's husbands.

Now, even if they did - adultery is NOT illegal in our country but polygamy is. Which is more evil? Adultery or Polygamy? I would think the latter is because it DEMEANS WOMEN. If a man can have multiple wives, why can't a woman have multiple husbands? Take off your patriachal Islamic blinkers - polygamy is evil.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

YahooChatIslam1,
Don't run and hide. Please answer my questions. I have patiently answered yours. So be fair and answer mine.

1. Is the Quran for all time or only for war time?

2. Are women allowed to take multiple husbands when men outnumber women, such as in Qatar and Bahrain?

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skynightblaze
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by skynightblaze »

YahooChatIslam1 wrote:Cassie wrote:
Hey, YCI1, get over the medieval concept of 'bastards'. We in the west have gotten over it. Nobody cares whether someone's father is married to his/her mother anymore. What's the big deal?
Lets look at this more objectively.

1 man / 1 woman.
60 Men married to 60 Women. => 0 unmarried men remaining. 40 unmarried women remaining.

So you are OK with the idea of 40 unmarried women out of 100 to enjoy the 60 married husbands of other married women?
The problem with this is that not all the men and women marry at the same time.You need to look the percentage of population that is of the age of marriage for e.g say for 100 women we have 120 males but out of 100 women 70 of those are already married so they have to be substracted and hence for remaining 30 women(100-70) of the age of marriage we have say 60 males(120-60 i.e assuming 60 of the males are already married) of the age of marriage so the point is mere nos arent any indication to justify polygamy. You need to take into account the population that is of the age of marriage.

Btw quran never said anything about no of men and women but followers of islam derived this crap reasoning out of nowhere to justify the nonsense of polygamy.Also there have been countries where male population is more than female.You reasoning fails at that point also.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

piscohot
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by piscohot »

YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
So you are OK with the idea of 40 unmarried women out of 100 to enjoy the 60 married husbands of other married women?
Yahoo,

Why are you so insistent that 40 unmarried women will seduce married men?

Is that what's happening in muslim countries?
Unmarried muslimahs are all seducing the husbands of other women?
:lol:
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by ThereIs1Adonai »

The stories and bragging of Mohammad's prowess with the women AND MEN suggests something physical was happening. He claimed Allah gave him that, and why Allah made him horny all the time is beyond me. But today we have nymphomaniacs, and one cause of this is a high testosterone level. It is just possible that Mo's hormones were out of whack, which instead of bragging about it, would require medical assistance today. Instead, in attempting to satiate his physical urges, he was able to dictate the rules that would give him any woman he wanted, including children. The hadiths that suggest he was homosexual demonstrates that he was no picky and needed sex so much he would use anything with a hole to stick it in.

It is my theory that Mohammad was not "blessed" with the ability to bed so many women in one night, but rather tormented with it. Let's face it... it's not normal. And it is certainly not cause for bragging rights. It's a medical malfunction. It's as if he took Viagra or Cialis and had a hard-on for more than 4 hours! :roll:


Peace, Shalom

sum
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by sum »

Hello YahooChatIslam1

Please stick to the subject of this thread. Can you explain why Muhammad married so many women?

YahooChatIslam1 is always trying to turn the tables and get posters to defend Western culture.

sum

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YahooChatIslam1
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by YahooChatIslam1 »

Cassie wrote:YahooChatIslam1,
Don't run and hide. Please answer my questions. I have patiently answered yours. So be fair and answer mine.

1. Is the Quran for all time or only for war time?

2. Are women allowed to take multiple husbands when men outnumber women, such as in Qatar and Bahrain?
1. Yes, Quran is for all times. This also means some verses will come into operation when circumstances materialize.
2. Some states in the middle east probably have more male than females because of labour force migrating to fill in the jobs created from the Oil Industry. Some states restrict the migration of whole families, ie Wife and Children along with the husbands to their state to keep a check on the population increase.

So, first give me a country that had more males than females at any time in history, then I will talk about practical difficulties in having multiple husbands.
1. The 2 million women raped by the USSR army - which probably produced lots of rape babies;
Is that what the report conducted towards the end of the war around 1945 reflects? Which report are you referring to?
2. Couples in wartime romances were more likely to have sexual relations because of the great chance the men would never return
The report I mentioned was conducted in 1945 when the war had ended. I dont see how you could validate your point. Where did you get that fact from?

The PROBABLE rape babies or romance liaisons babies still do not provide a practical solution for single widows and orphans.
If they did, what's that to do with you?
What does that have to do with me? Because we live in a civilised human society, not a baboon society. If you want to solicit individualism, please move your camp to a nearby jungle.
How do you know that the 40 unmarried women 'SHARED' other women's husbands?
This makes reference to the gender ratio which existed towards the end of 2nd world war. That is what I wanted to ask you. What to do with those 40 out of every 100 Unmarried women?
16:10 - And upon Allah rests the showing of the right way, and there are ways which deviate from the right course. And if He had enforced His Will, He would have guided you all.

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Cassie
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by Cassie »

YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
Cassie wrote:YahooChatIslam1,
Don't run and hide. Please answer my questions. I have patiently answered yours. So be fair and answer mine.

1. Is the Quran for all time or only for war time?

2. Are women allowed to take multiple husbands when men outnumber women, such as in Qatar and Bahrain?
1. Yes, Quran is for all times. This also means some verses will come into operation when circumstances materialize.
Rubbish. How come polygamy is allowed when Muslim countries have not been at war for generations?
YahooChatIslam1 wrote: 2. Some states in the middle east probably have more male than females because of labour force migrating to fill in the jobs created from the Oil Industry. Some states restrict the migration of whole families, ie Wife and Children along with the husbands to their state to keep a check on the population increase.
So how come these states still allow polygamy? Are you saying that the native males outnumber the native females?
YahooChatIslam1 wrote: So, first give me a country that had more males than females at any time in history, then I will talk about practical difficulties in having multiple husbands.
You gave the example of war to justify polygamy in the Quran – so how come 3 generations after WWII, Muslim countries still allow polygamy?
YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
1. The 2 million women raped by the USSR army - which probably produced lots of rape babies;
Is that what the report conducted towards the end of the war around 1945 reflects? Which report are you referring to?
Look it up in the Internet.
It’s well known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_durin ... of_Germany" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
2. Couples in wartime romances were more likely to have sexual relations because of the great chance the men would never return
The report I mentioned was conducted in 1945 when the war had ended. I dont see how you could validate your point. Where did you get that fact from?
From people who lived through that period?
YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
The PROBABLE rape babies or romance liaisons babies still do not provide a practical solution for single widows and orphans.
What practical solution? Polygamy is not a practical solution. Western Europe went along just fine by treating the babies as human beings like everyone else. You don’t stigmatise children born out of wedlock and then claim that polygamy is a solution.
Polygamy is en evil. It demeans women.
YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
If they did, what's that to do with you?
What does that have to do with me? Because we live in a civilised human society, not a baboon society. If you want to solicit individualism, please move your camp to a nearby jungle.
Actually, western societies are far more humane and civilized than your barbaric Islamic societies which practise backward, patriarchal, misogynistic, polygamist societies.
YahooChatIslam1 wrote:
How do you know that the 40 unmarried women 'SHARED' other women's husbands?
This makes reference to the gender ratio which existed towards the end of 2nd world war. That is what I wanted to ask you. What to do with those 40 out of every 100 Unmarried women?
What they did is NONE of your concern. They deserve husbands for themselves and not sharing them with other women. Speaking as a woman, most women would rather remain single than engage in polygamy.

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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by ThereIs1Adonai »

YahooChatIslam1 wrote:SO FAR, Cassie has acknowledged that:

1) Bastard producing societies of the West are more progressive.
2) It is OK to produce bastards in large numbers.

The word "bastard" is grossly unfair. There is no word for a child being born out of wedlock on Vulcan. Rather, they have a word for a man who impregnates a woman out of wedlock that is similar. I like the Vulcan method. A child has no responsibility for the acts of the parents and it is wrong to label them as such, though our society has unfairly done so for a long time. This word should be abolished.

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YahooChatIslam1
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Re: Article why did Muhammed marry so many women is now online

Post by YahooChatIslam1 »

Cassie wrote in answer to her claim of 2 million rapes in Germany:
Look it up in the Internet.
It’s well known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_durin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... of_Germany
That article is itself disputed:
The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (May 2010)

Using an article whose neutrality is disputed borders on acts of desperation.

However, your one liner questions are as follows:
Rubbish. How come polygamy is allowed when Muslim countries have not been at war for generations?
Ofcourse it would be rubbish if you thought the "circumstances" reference was just about war times.
So how come these states still allow polygamy? Are you saying that the native males outnumber the native females?
If I was suggesting that native males out numbered native females, would that have helped my argument? It is none other than yourself who attempted to claim that some middle east countries had more males than females meaning native population. Here is what you said:
The corollary is the finding that in some Muslim societies, men far outnumber women - why then is polygamy still allowed? You'd think that in Qatar where men outnumber women 2:1, polyandry would be allowed and polygamy outlawed, by your (flawed) reasoning.
What practical solution? Polygamy is not a practical solution.
I asked you about the description of a practical solution. I did not ask you to tell me what is not a practical solution.

I asked the question: This makes reference to the gender ratio which existed towards the end of 2nd world war. That is what I wanted to ask you. What to do with those 40 out of every 100 Unmarried women?

Your answer is: What they did is NONE of your concern.

Saying 'its none of your concern' or 'what does that have to do wtih you' is irresponsible attitude. Imagine if we say that about everything we encounter in life?

I would like you to give me some suggestions for the solution -
1: How would those 40 out of every 100 single women have babies?
2: Would you recommend homosexuality for 40% of the singletons?
3: Would you recommend celibacy?
4: Would you recommend migration?
5: Would you recommend mass suicide?

The number of young Hindu widows seeking refuge in India's holy city of Vrindavan - nicknamed "the city of widows" - is rising, a study says...Nearly 15,000 widows are believed to be living on the streets of Vrindavan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6919862.stm
However, such modernity does not always mean the loss of traditional beliefs and practices within that society. For instance, in Hindu society widows are still often shunned — and even prohibited from re-marrying. In fact, they may be blamed for their husband’s death by their in-laws or face domestic abuse after their husbands have died.
http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=5169

As expected, readers are horrified by the backwards and inhumane treatment of these women -- 40 million in India, and 15 thousand on the streets of Vrindavan. Some blame Hinduism or the Vedic scriptures for this cruel practice. Others say that it is all about money and greed.
http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/203 ... idows.html

To put 40 million widows in India into perspective, the population of London is about 7 million, and whole of United Kingdom is about 61 million.

Would you still say it is none of my concern when 40 million widows just in India are socially ostracised, or thrown out of the homes because they are an economic liability?

Practical solutions please.
16:10 - And upon Allah rests the showing of the right way, and there are ways which deviate from the right course. And if He had enforced His Will, He would have guided you all.

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