Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

His life, his examples and his psychology
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The Cat
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Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by The Cat »

Muhammad's mental illness is well documented here, with about 30 links:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43455" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As a follow-up I found this: Muhammad was more likely a shaman than a prophet, let alone of god.
http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/allah_ ... elohim.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a long text, which I've shorten and illustrated...
Muhammad Prophet of God?
The man responsible for promoting Allah is Muhammad. He claimed that God's name was Allah and everybody just took his word for it. Muhammad is propagated by both Muslim, the Quran and the Hadith to be a prophet as well as the seal of prophets. However, when we examine Muhammad closely we will see that he is the furthest thing from a prophet. Now lets examine Muhammad to see if we should trust what he claims. (...)

He entered upon Khadija and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, "O Khadija, what is wrong with me?" Then he told her everything that had happened and said, 'I fear that something may happen to me." KHADIJA SAID, 'Never! But have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good reactions with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to (her cousin) Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza bin Qusai. Waraqa was the son of her paternal uncle, i.e., her father's brother, (...) Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" The Prophet described whatever he had seen.

WARAQA SAID, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth"...... Bukhari, 9,111.

Keep these highlighted parts in mind, they will be very usefull as we go along. We see that the Angel pressed poor old frightened Muhammad and forced him to read. One thing to note is the fact of why the angel didn't know that Muhammad was illiterate? Surely Gabriel wouldn't tell a man to read and who couldn't read. Also, notice that this so-called angel never claimed to be Gabriel! This came later on. His uncle Waraqa said it was Gabriel, not Muhammad. Why didn't Gabriel mention his name to Muhammad? Again, how come Gabriel told Muhammad to read when he was illiterate? Waraqa, a so-called Christian, is wrong too, because Gabriel never appeared to Moses. Even the Quran says that Allah appeared to Moses. What does this mean? It means that the beginning of Muhammad's call was based on error. 1.) The spirit never said it was Gabriel (this came later) 2.) Muhammad never claimed it was Gabriel, let alone an angel 3.) Waraqa said this Gabriel appeared to Moses when it was God who appeared to Moses. (...)

Ayesha reported that Haresah-b-Hisham asked the Apostle of Allah! How does revelation come to you? The Apostle of Allah said: Sometimes it comes to me like the ringing of a bell and that is the most troublesome to me; then it leaves me and indeed I remember what is said; and sometimes the angel assumes the form of a man for me and talks with me and I retain in memory what he says. Ayesha reported: And indeed I saw him while the revelation descended upon him on an intensely cold day; then it left him while his brow steamed with sweat. Obadah-b-Swamet reported that when a revelation came unto the prophet, he used to become greatly perturbed and his face became changed. (Mishkat IV, p. 259) And,

Ibn Ishaq says that, before the Revelation first began to descend upon him, Muhammad's friends feared that he was suffering from the evil eyes: and that, when it came upon him, almost the same illness attacked him again. What this particular malady was we can perhaps infer from the statements of the Traditionalists. Ali Halabi, in his Turkish work entitled 'Insanu'l Uyun', informs us that many people declared that Aminah, MUHAMMAD'S MOTHER, USED A SPELL in order to recover him from the influence of the evil eye. ("Mizanu'l Haqq" by C.G. Pfander D.D., pp. 345-356) (...)

Muhammad said to Khadijah, 'When I was lone I heard a cry: O Muhammad, O Muhammad'. In tradition it is stated that he said, 'I fear lest I should become a magician, lest one should proclaim me a follower of the Jinn'; and again: 'I fear lest there should be madness' (or demonic possession) in me'. After an accession of shivering and shutting his eyes, there used to come over him what resembled a swoon, HIS FACE [mouth?] WOULD FOAM, AND HE WOULD ROAR LIKE A YOUNG CAMEL. Abu Hurairah says: 'As for the Apostle of God, when inspiration descended on him, no one could raise his glance to him until the inspiration came to an end'. In Tradition it is stated that 'He was troubled thereat, AND HIS FACE FOAMED, AND HE CLOSED HIS EYES, AND PERCHANCE ROARED LIKE THE ROARING OF THE YOUNG CAMEL'. Umar ibnu'l Khattab says: 'When inspiration descended on the Apostle of God, there used to be heard near his face as it were the buzzing of bees'. ("Mizanu'l Haqq" by C.G. Pfander D.D., pp. 345-356)

This is absolutely amazing! Muslims call a man who foamed at the mouth a prophet. This is an ugly site and anybody seen in today's society would be considered insane or mentally sick, if they constantly foamed at the mouth. If you saw Muhammad in this situation you'd think that he had rabbies! Roaring like a camel? (...) One must wonder why only notable traits, found in common medium trances, are seen in Muhammad's prophetic encounters. Should we ignore all of this and claim that Muhammad was a prophet of God, though he had these experiences because Muslims want us too? (...)

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What makes Muhammad so special from any other Shaman or Medium? Because he brought God's final message? The Bahai prophet and Joseph Smith of the Mormons claimed to have done the same thing "bring God's final message". So basically Muslims are left with nothing more than circular arguments by claming that Muhammad was a prophet. Hence, when you examine Muhammad you find out that he is far from being a prophet but considered more as a spiritist who indulged in shamanistic experiences (...)

The noted Quranic translator Rodwell observes:
At the same time, he was probably, more or less, throughout his whole career, the victim of certain amount of self-deception. A CATALEPTIC SUBJECT FROM HIS EARLY YOUTH, born-- according to the traditions-- of a HIGHLY NERVOUS AND EXCITABLE MOTHER, he would be peculiarly liable to MORBID AND FANTASTIC HALLUCINATIONS, and alterations of excitement and depression, which would win for him, in the eyes of his ignorant countrymen, the credit of being inspired. (Rodwell, J.M., The Koran, New York, 1977, p. 14) (...) Early biographers state that Muhammad had strange experiences while he was being cared for by his wet-nurse, Halima. On one occasion he fell down in a kind of stroke and when he finally stood up his face was quite livid. Ibn Ishaq states that two men clothed in white had seized him and opened his chest.

The myth around the story is that two angels took out his heart, cleansed it of impurity, and replaced it in his body! Other traditions say the cleansing and removing of Muhammad's heart happened just before the mi'raj. When the story is stripped of its fanciful features, one is left with a record of psychic experiences occurring during Muhammad's youth. Here is a Hadith talking about this experience from Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 227: Narrated Abbas bin Malik:

Malik bin Sasaa said that Allah's Apostle described to them his Night Journey saying, "While I was lying in Al-Hatim or Al-Hijr, SUDDENLY SOMEONE CAME TO ME AND CUT MY BODY OPEN FROM HERE TO HERE." I asked Al-Jarud who was by my side, "What does he mean?" He said, "It means from his throat to his pubic area," or said, "From the top of the chest." The Prophet further said, "He then took out my heart. Then a gold tray of Belief was brought to me and my heart was washed and was filled (with Belief) and then returned to its original place. Then a white animal which was smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me." (On this Al-Jarud asked, "Was it the Buraq, O Abu Hamza?" I (i.e. Anas) replied in the affirmative)........

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Who Was Gabriel?
Muslims vehemently claim that it was the angel Gabriel who came to Muhammad, yet the Qur'an only once refers to Jibril as the medium of the revelation (2.97 -Chr.87th) while stating elsewhere that it came down with the Ruhul-Amin, the Faithful Spirit (26.193 -Chr.47th). The identification of Gabriel as the Qur'anic messenger is significantly only made in a very late passage of the Qur'an after Muhammad had had many dealings with Jews and Christians. This spirit never identified himself as Gabriel when Muhammad first met him. Waraqa first claimed this and then the spirit ironically claimed this. Also since the name Gabriel came in a very late passage of the Quran, this shows us that Muhammad didn't originally believe Waraqa's claim. He had to be around the Jews and Christians before finally deciding that it must have been Gabriel. A telling story indeed. "The pre-Islamic Arabs believed in the demon of poetry, and they thought that a great poet was directly inspired by demons...." (Tabari Vol. 9, page 167, note 1151)

This explains why Muhammad thought he was demon possessed, or influenced by demons; the Quran in many places reads like typical Arabic poetry. These supernatural spirits or demons were called Jinn. We see that in the Quran, Satan was ONE OF THE JINN! Hmm, very interesting because if we are to accept Muhammad's claim about Allah being Yahweh then it is imperative for us to look deeper into this matter. (...)

Muhammad invited people to come and consult with the jinn every chance he got! How are we supposed to accept the testimony of a man like this? Because he was God's apostle? Based on what evidence? The words of Allah as well as Satan, in the Satanic Verses, were spoken by the mouth of Muhammad, which eliminates this possibility of Muhammad being God's prophet. If a person consults with Jinn, he is a shaman or a medium and not a prophet. Notice how Yahweh hated divination and Allah seems to allow it. Strange isn't it.

From the Hadith of Bukhari, Volume 7, # 660. Narrated Aisha:
MAGIC WAS WORKED ON ALLAH'S APOSTLE so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: THAT IS THE HARDEST KIND OF MAGIC as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O 'Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?' The latter replied the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on him?' The other replied Labid bin Al-A'sam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.' The first one asked, What material did he use)?' The other replied, 'A comb and the hair stuck to it.' The first one asked, 'Where (is that)?' The other replied. 'In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan' '' So the Prophet went to that well and took out those things and said "That was the well which was shown to me (in a dream) Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils." The Prophet added, "Then that thing was taken out' I said (to the Prophet ) "Why do you not treat yourself with Nashra?" He said, "Allah has cured me; I DISLIKE TO LET EVIL SPREAD AMONG MY PEOPLE." This Tradition is also found in Bukhari 4.490, 7.658, 7.660, 7.661, 8.89, 8:400. (...)

Few people are aware of Muhammad's suicide attempts. Following his initial visitation by a spiritual being, that claimed to be Gabriel, Muhammad was frantic with fear and attempted suicide. He walked up to the top of a mountain and intended to throw himself off a cliff. This same being that caused his fear then intervened. Later, over the course of up to the next three years, the visitations by this spirit became rare, and Muhammad would then again attempt suicide in a like manner. Again, it was only due to the intervention of this being that Muhammad did not kill himself. (...)

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Images: http://www.islamcomicbook.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
http://www.historyofjihad.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Aisha could not see Gabriel
Bukhari 4.440, 'Aisha said that the Prophet said to her "O 'Aisha' This is Gabriel and he sends his (greetings) salutations to you." 'Aisha said, "Salutations ... and addressing the Prophet SHE SAID, "YOU SEE WHAT I DON'T SEE."

This is very important for the reader to recognize, Muhammad saw a spirit in which nobody else saw. This again is precarious because in order to believe that Gabriel came we would have to accept only the testimony of Muhammad. It's one thing to be visited by an angel and you are by yourself but to claim that one came without anybody else seeing him in the same room is another story. Muhammad was hallucinating or he was bewitched into seeing things that wasn't there. Either way why should we accept his testimony about Allah? You can't even verify that Gabriel was present. Even Muhammad's companions didn't see him, which leaves him as a witness unto himself.

"Gabriel" won't go into a house with a dog or a picture. Bukhari 4.450, Once Gabriel promised the Prophet (that he would visit him, but Gabriel did not come) and later on he said, "We, angels, do not enter a house which contains a picture or a dog." (...)

Other people recognize "Gabriel" as a person they knew.
Bukhari 4.827, I got the news that Gabriel came to the Prophet while Um Salama was present. Gabriel started talking (to the Prophet and then left. The Prophet said to Um Salama, "(Do you know) who it was?" (or a similar question). She said, "It was Dihya (a handsome person amongst the companions of the Prophet )." Later on Um Salama said, "By Allah! I thought HE WAS NONE BUT DIHYA, till I heard the Prophet talking about Gabriel in his sermon.? .....

Here is the quote from "The Life of Muhammad", page 461. Note here that these men also recognized this "Gabriel" as the same person Um Salama saw him as - "Dihya"! Why did Gabriel take this merchants form twice? According to what al-Zuhri told me, at the time of the noon prayers Barbiel came to the apostle wearing an embroidered turban and riding on a mule with a saddle covered with a piece of brocade. ..... The apostle passed by a number of his companions in al-Saurayn before he got to the B. Qurayza and asked if anyone had passed them. They replied that DIHYA B. KHALIFA AL-KALBI had passed upon a white mule with a saddle covered with a piece of brocade. He said, "THAT WAS GABRIEL who has been sent to B. Qurayza to shake their castles and strike terror to their hearts." (Ibid)

You see my friends; Gabriel was either a hallucination or Dihya. Everybody that came in contact with Gabriel never saw him or recognized him as a known companion!!! So in order for us to believe that this was Gabriel we must ignore the countless people who saw Dihya and other?s who never saw Muhammad talking to anybody!!! Even Khadja never saw Gabriel after Muhammad was first visited. This Gabriel was very strange and only Muhammad saw him making him a witness unto himself, which disqualifies him as a prophet based on what God said in the O.T. dealing with the verification of any claim using more than one witness.

Gabriel prayed for Muhammad to be healed, but Muhammad wasn't healed. From the Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, vol. 1, page 265 The apostle of Allah fell ill and he i.e. Gabriel, chanted on him, saying, "In the name of Allah I chant on to ward off from you every thing that harms you and (to ward off you) against every envier and from every evil eye and Allah will heal you." How could evil overtake the Seal of Prophets? How come Gabriel couldn't even get a prayer through? Is it because this Gabriel impostor was a jinn who used Muhammad like a cheap suit? Yes.
Muhammad and Temporal Lobe Epilepsy (TLE) by Ali Sina
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina41204.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

ukavinda
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:59 pm

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by ukavinda »

This is very informative and good one. Which I may use in my email postings.
But this one I would change as I could not agree with it. At the beginning it says;
Muhammad Prophet of God?
The man responsible for promoting Allah is Muhammad. He claimed that God's name was Allah and everybody just took his word for it.
Islam was forced upon them.

Q
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by Q »

The Cat wrote:From the Hadith of Bukhari, Volume 7, # 660. Narrated Aisha:
MAGIC WAS WORKED ON ALLAH'S APOSTLE so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: THAT IS THE HARDEST KIND OF MAGIC as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O 'Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?' The latter replied the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on him?' The other replied Labid bin Al-A'sam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.' The first one asked, What material did he use)?' The other replied, 'A comb and the hair stuck to it.' The first one asked, 'Where (is that)?' The other replied. 'In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan' '' So the Prophet went to that well and took out those things and said "That was the well which was shown to me (in a dream) Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils." The Prophet added, "Then that thing was taken out' I said (to the Prophet ) "Why do you not treat yourself with Nashra?" He said, "Allah has cured me; I DISLIKE TO LET EVIL SPREAD AMONG MY PEOPLE." This Tradition is also found in Bukhari 4.490, 7.658, 7.660, 7.661, 8.89, 8:400. (...)
FYI/E

Qur'an 26: 43-50

Shakir 26:43] Musa said to them: Cast what you are going to cast.
[Yusufali 26:43] Moses said to them: "Throw ye - that which ye are about to throw!"
[Pickthal 26:43] Moses said unto them: Throw what ye are going to throw!

[Shakir 26:44] So they cast down their cords and their rods and said: By Firon's power, we shall most surely be victorious.
[Yusufali 26:44] So they threw their ropes and their rods, and said: "By the might of Pharaoh, it is we who will certainly win!"
[Pickthal 26:44] Then they threw down their cords and their staves and said: By Pharaoh's might, lo! we verily are the winners.

[Shakir 26:45] Then Musa cast down his staff and lo! it swallowed up the lies they told.
[Yusufali 26:45] Then Moses threw his rod, when, behold, it straightway swallows up all the falsehoods which they fake!
[Pickthal 26:45] Then Moses threw his staff and lo! it swallowed that which they did falsely show.

[Shakir 26:46] And the magicians were thrown down prostrate;
[Yusufali 26:46] Then did the sorcerers fall down, prostrate in adoration,
[Pickthal 26:46] And the wizards were flung prostrate,

[Shakir 26:47] They said: We believe in the Lord of the worlds:
[Yusufali 26:47] Saying: "We believe in the Lord of the Worlds,
[Pickthal 26:47] Crying: We believe in the Lord of the Worlds,

[Shakir 26:48] The Lord of Musa and Haroun.
[Yusufali 26:48] "The Lord of Moses and Aaron."
[Pickthal 26:48] The Lord of Moses and Aaron.

[Shakir 26:49] Said he: You believe in him before I give you permission; most surely he is the chief of you who taught you the magic, so you shall know: certainly I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and certainly I will crucify you all.
[Yusufali 26:49] Said (Pharaoh): "Believe ye in Him before I give you permission? surely he is your leader, who has taught you sorcery! but soon shall ye know! Be sure I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will cause you all to die on the cross!"
[Pickthal 26:49] (Pharaoh) said: Ye put your faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he doubtless is your chief who taught you magic! But verily ye shall come to know. Verily I will cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and verily I will crucify you every one.

[Shakir 26:50] They said: No harm; surely to our Lord we go back;
[Yusufali 26:50] They said: "No matter! for us, we shall but return to our Lord!
[Pickthal 26:50] They said: It is no hurt, for lo! unto our Lord we shall return.



*****
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Q
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by Q »

The Cat wrote:Keep these highlighted parts in mind, they will be very usefull as we go along. We see that the Angel pressed poor old frightened Muhammad and forced him to read. One thing to note is the fact of why the angel didn't know that Muhammad was illiterate? Surely Gabriel wouldn't tell a man to read and who couldn't read. (...)

FYI/E
Qur'an 96:1

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ {1}


[Shakir 96:1] Read in the name of your Lord Who created.
[Yusufali 96:1] Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
[Pickthal 96:1] Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth,

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 96:1]
Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

According to Majmaul Bayan, with the particle ba the translation is "Read in the name of Your Lord," and without ba it would be: "Read the name of your Lord", which is the actual meaning of this verse.

In the light of that which is stated in the commentary of Baqarah: 2, 30 to 39, 78; Ali Imran: 7, 48; Ahzab: 21; Zumar: 23; Mumin: 55; Muhammad: 15, 19; Fat-h: 2; Jinn: 26, 27; Takwir: 19 to 21 and in several other verses of the Quran, all that which has been said in connection with the revelation of the first 5 verses of this surah, as the first revelation, are based upon conjecture; and form the root of all derogatory charges levelled against the Holy Prophet by the enemies of Islam. When such slanderous and censorious observations appear in books and magazines, the Muslim ummah makes a hue and cry in a violent frenzy, without realising the fact that it is their own historians and commentators who have supplied the material on which the conclusions are made by the anti-muslim authors. The life of the Holy Prophet, from his birth to the end, has been described by Imam Ali ibn abi Talib at several places in the Nahj al Balagha, which is the most authentic point of view expressed by any of his biographers till today. The Holy Prophet was taught and tutored by Allah Himself, as stated in Rahman and Najm. He was under the divine care all the time. Since his birth he was fully alive to the task of preaching and conveying the divine message for which he was chosen when Adam was not even created. He was a light, though he lived like a human among people, blessed with divine wisdom, mercy and guidance in order to guide the human beings in all times. See Nisa: 79, Ahzab: 45 to 47; Saba: 28 and Anbiya: 107. According to Najm 9 he was as perfect as his Lord with a fine line of demarcation between the finite and the infinite, on account of which we say in "tashahhud" of every salat that "he is the servant and the messenger of Allah."

The Holy Prophet said:

"My light was created when Adam was not even in the process of creation.. "

Iqra (read, recite or proclaim) implies that the Holy Prophet knew all the names of Allah which carry the essence of creation and legislation. So he knew the book of Allah also. As said in verses 77 to 79 of Waqi-ah the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt alone, in addition to Allah, are aware of the book kept well-guarded in lawh mahfuz. Here he was commanded to recite or read which he already knew. It was the beginning of the gradual revelation. See Ta Ha: 114 and Qiyamah: 16 to 19. Verse 3 repeats the command to recite, and verses 4 and 5 say that Allah has already taught everything which if read with Rahman: 1 to 4 clearly implies that the Holy Prophet who was sent as rahmatun lil alamin (mercy unto the worlds), representing the universal divine grace, was taught by Arrahman as soon as he was created. Thus bi-that does not mean the beginning of his prophethood, but it refers to the beginning of his ministry.

http://WWW.AL-ISLAM.ORG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

piscohot
Posts: 2187
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:16 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by piscohot »

Q wrote:
Spoiler! :
The Cat wrote:Keep these highlighted parts in mind, they will be very usefull as we go along. We see that the Angel pressed poor old frightened Muhammad and forced him to read. One thing to note is the fact of why the angel didn't know that Muhammad was illiterate? Surely Gabriel wouldn't tell a man to read and who couldn't read. (...)

FYI/E
Qur'an 96:1

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ {1}


[Shakir 96:1] Read in the name of your Lord Who created.
[Yusufali 96:1] Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
[Pickthal 96:1] Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth,

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 96:1]
Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

According to Majmaul Bayan, with the particle ba the translation is "Read in the name of Your Lord," and without ba it would be: "Read the name of your Lord", which is the actual meaning of this verse.

In the light of that which is stated in the commentary of Baqarah: 2, 30 to 39, 78; Ali Imran: 7, 48; Ahzab: 21; Zumar: 23; Mumin: 55; Muhammad: 15, 19; Fat-h: 2; Jinn: 26, 27; Takwir: 19 to 21 and in several other verses of the Quran, all that which has been said in connection with the revelation of the first 5 verses of this surah, as the first revelation, are based upon conjecture; and form the root of all derogatory charges levelled against the Holy Prophet by the enemies of Islam. When such slanderous and censorious observations appear in books and magazines, the Muslim ummah makes a hue and cry in a violent frenzy, without realising the fact that it is their own historians and commentators who have supplied the material on which the conclusions are made by the anti-muslim authors. The life of the Holy Prophet, from his birth to the end, has been described by Imam Ali ibn abi Talib at several places in the Nahj al Balagha, which is the most authentic point of view expressed by any of his biographers till today. The Holy Prophet was taught and tutored by Allah Himself, as stated in Rahman and Najm. He was under the divine care all the time. Since his birth he was fully alive to the task of preaching and conveying the divine message for which he was chosen when Adam was not even created. He was a light, though he lived like a human among people, blessed with divine wisdom, mercy and guidance in order to guide the human beings in all times. See Nisa: 79, Ahzab: 45 to 47; Saba: 28 and Anbiya: 107. According to Najm 9 he was as perfect as his Lord with a fine line of demarcation between the finite and the infinite, on account of which we say in "tashahhud" of every salat that "he is the servant and the messenger of Allah."
The Holy Prophet said:

"My light was created when Adam was not even in the process of creation.. "

Iqra (read, recite or proclaim) implies that the Holy Prophet knew all the names of Allah which carry the essence of creation and legislation. So he knew the book of Allah also. As said in verses 77 to 79 of Waqi-ah the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt alone, in addition to Allah, are aware of the book kept well-guarded in lawh mahfuz. Here he was commanded to recite or read which he already knew. It was the beginning of the gradual revelation. See Ta Ha: 114 and Qiyamah: 16 to 19. Verse 3 repeats the command to recite, and verses 4 and 5 say that Allah has already taught everything which if read with Rahman: 1 to 4 clearly implies that the Holy Prophet who was sent as rahmatun lil alamin (mercy unto the worlds), representing the universal divine grace, was taught by Arrahman as soon as he was created. Thus bi-that does not mean the beginning of his prophethood, but it refers to the beginning of his ministry.

http://WWW.AL-ISLAM.ORG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol:

the truth's out..

Q is just one of those nuts.

http://www.muhammadanreality.com/creati ... eality.htm


So why did he attempt to throw himself off the mountain?

Because he knew he was selected for something evil?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

Q
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by Q »

FYI/E

Qur'an 19:27-34
Pickthal's Translation

[Pickthal 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
[Pickthal 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.
[Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
[Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,
[Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
[Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.
[Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!
[Pickthal 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.


_________________________________________________________________________________________



[Pooya/Ali Commentary Qur'an 3:48]

"Allah taught Isa the book and wisdom, and the Tawrat and the Injil" brings up the question as to when Isa received the education promised in this verse. In the light of verse 46 of this surah, he was sent into this world with the knowledge of the book and wisdom, the Tawrat and the Injil. All the Muslims know and acknowledge that the Holy Prophet, the seal of prophethood, is the superior-most prophet of Allah, the chief of all the prophets, whose advent has been continuously promised by Allah long before the birth of Isa-see Deuteronomy 18: 5, 15, 18 and 19 text of which has been mentioned in the commentary of al Baqarah: 253, wherein is also mentioned that which Isa said about the advent of the Holy Prophet (the comforter, the spirit of truth) John: 14: 16, 17; 15: 26; 16: 7 to 13.

Is there any sense in saying that the Holy Prophet was an illiterate who acquired whatever learning he had from ordinary mortals, when Isa came into this world endowed with divine knowledge? Please refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 78. All Muslims should feel ashamed to believe in the lie that the Holy Prophet took fright at the sight of angel Jibrail on the mountain of Hira; he returned home scared stiff; his wife, Khadija al Kubra, consoled him and took him to Warqa bin Nawfil, a Christian, who informed him that prophethood had been bestowed on him, because it was not a devil that he saw on the mountain of Hira but an angel. May Allah forgive them for believing in such nonsense which the devil must have invented to lead the so-called Muslims astray. Please refer to verses 1 to 4 of al Rahman wherein it is said that Allah, the beneficent, Himself taught the Quran to the Holy Prophet, described as the MAN, the divinely perfected ideal man, to be followed by every man who desires to be a real human being.

The Holy Prophet has said:

I was a prophet when Adam was yet amidst water and clay.

The birth of Isa was a miracle. He lived a godly life, exposed the hypocrisy and corruption of the Jews, and gave the glad tidings of the advent of the Holy Prophet.

Please also refer to verses 27 to 34 of Maryam which confirm that which has been stated in verses 46 and 48 of this surah.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Isa, a muta-allim (student), was taught the book and wisdom, the Tawrat and the Injil and sent to the children of Israil as a prophet, whereas the Holy Prophet, endowed with the divine wisdom, and knowledge of all creation, with the Quran, was sent as the last prophet to all those who are born to women (ummi), all the human beings including the Jews, the Christians and those who do not follow any heavenly scripture, to rehearse to them the divine signs, to purify them and to teach them.

piscohot
Posts: 2187
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:16 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by piscohot »

Now it has become known that when the Lord had created the Tablets and the Pen, the Pen had on it one hundred nodes, the distance between two nodes being that of two years wayfaring. The Lord then commanded the Pen to write, and the Pen asked,

“Oh Lord, what shall I write?” The Lord said,

“Write: la ilaha illAllah, Muhammadan Rasulullah.” Thereupon the Pen exclaimed, “Oh, what a beautiful, great name is that of Muhammad that it is to mentioned in one with Thy hallowed Name, oh Lord.”

The Lord then said, “Oh Pen, mind your manners! This name is the name of My Beloved, from his Light I have created the Throne and the Pen and the Tablets; you, too, are created from his Light. Had it not been for him, I would not have created a single thing.
Yes, there actually are people who believed the above crap.
(I do not want to mention names but if you think i am talking about Q being one of them, you are right). :whistling:

Some muslim nuts, not all, believed that the first thing Allah created was the light of Muhammad from which EVERYTHING else was created.

Braindeads cannot reason why (if Muhammad was created before anyone else) would Allah sent 124000 prophets to screw things up before he sent Muhammad in the 7th century to fix things.
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by yeezevee »

Our Q says
FYI/E
So what does "Q" strand for dear Q?? Quran?
And what does FYI/E stand for dear "Q"? "Festival of Yodeling Initiative" in ffi ?? well let me say ..."W/E"... lol

For Your Information, let me also tell you about the ayahs you inserted from that wonderful surah
'MARYAM (MARY)"., which incidentally is THE BEST SURAH AMONG ALL surahs of Quran
Qur'an 19:27-34
Pickthal's Translation

[Pickthal 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
[Pickthal 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.
[Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
[Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,
[Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
[Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.
[Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!
[Pickthal 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.
Ist of all I would like you to note on that Translation of Quran from this guy

Image
(Mohammed) Marmaduke Pickthall (April 7, 1875 – May 19, 1936) read about him at
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/bmh/BMM-AH ... ll_bio.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmaduke_Pickthall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .. what I mean to say is you are NOT reading right translation. That Guy was an English guy with little background in Native Arabic. If you like to read Quran in English then pick it up from that Egyptian SHAKIR., it is more closer to that of Arabic Quran..


And this commentary that you picked up from http://www.al-islam.org/Quran/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by these two guys Ayatullah . Pooya Yazdi and Mir Ahmed Ali is at the best it is silly and at worst it is nonsense.. let me pick up stupid stuff that you pasted from their commentary
_________________________________________________________________________________________
[Pooya/Ali Commentary Qur'an 3:48]

Isa...Tawrat and the Injil"....Tawrat and the Injil.

All the Muslims know and acknowledge that the Holy Prophet, the seal of prophethood, is the superior-most prophet of Allah, the chief of all the prophets, whose advent has been continuously promised by Allah long before the birth of Isa-see Deuteronomy 18: 5, 15, 18 and 19 text of which has been mentioned in the commentary of al Baqarah: 253, wherein is also mentioned that which Isa said about the advent of the Holy Prophet (the comforter, the spirit of truth) John: 14: 16, 17; 15: 26; 16: 7 to 13.
It is SICKENING to see Muslim like these writers and well educated Muslims like you picking up ayahs from Quran and some bible verses on "Isa...Tawrat and the Injil" and turning this fellow Mr. Muhammad(Prophet of Islam) as "superior-most prophet of Allah, or the chief of all the prophets". It is absolute RUBBISH and nonsense.., Muslim like you simply pick up words from Christianity and Judaism on Isa( Christ) and Moses and PUT THEM ON mr. Muhammad and reinforce your belief in Mr. Muhammad to say "Muhammad is a Prophet of Allah".. superior-most prophet or the chief of all the prophets.,

My friend a careful look in to his life from QURAN itself proves that fellow was con-man and in fact he was criminal Don't get me wrong., He might have been a good guy. And In fact until the death of his first wife Khadija, he indeed appears to be good guy. Not an extraordinarily personality but a Normal person like you & me or millions of Muslims

Any way it is rubbish to rub few good words and action of Moses and Christ from Quran and put it on to Mr. Muhammad.


"A Dog is Dog irrespective how you cover the dog and however fancy cloth you use to cover the Dog"


with best wishes
yeezevee

Q
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by Q »

For Your Information/Eduction (FYI/E)

Qur'an 19;27-34

فَأَتَتْ بِهِ قَوْمَهَا تَحْمِلُهُ قَالُوا يَا مَرْيَمُ لَقَدْ جِئْتِ شَيْئًا فَرِيًّا {27}
[Shakir 19:27] And she came to her people with him, carrying him (with her). They said: O Marium! surely you have done a strange thing.
[Yusufali 19:27] At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
[Pickthal 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.



يَا أُخْتَ هَارُونَ مَا كَانَ أَبُوكِ امْرَأَ سَوْءٍ وَمَا كَانَتْ أُمُّكِ بَغِيًّا {28}
[Shakir 19:28] O sister of Haroun! your father was not a bad man, nor, was your mother an unchaste woman.
[Yusufali 19:28] "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
[Pickthal 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.


Aqa Mahdi Puya says:


Many Christian scholars have failed to understand the term "O sister of Harun", although, according to the Bible, Maryam and Zakariyya's wife were related to each other, and Zakariyya's wife was a descendant of the house of Harun. Generally any female belonging to a family is described as a sister or daughter of the head of the family. The Quran and the Bible assert that Maryam and Zakariyya's wife were the descendants of Harun, the brother of Musa, a prophet of God, and through him belonged to the tribe of Levi, noted for virtue and piety, and not to the house of Dawud. In order to remove the discrepancies between the two genealogies, given in Matthew and Luke, the Christian Church wrongly tries to establish that one refers to Maryam and the other refers to Joseph, the alleged husband of Maryam, which is entirely based upon conjecture and is against the clear wordings of the Quran and the Bible.


When Isa was born the people of the town declared that Maryam had fallen and disgraced the name of her progenitors.





فَأَشَارَتْ إِلَيْهِ قَالُوا كَيْفَ نُكَلِّمُ مَن كَانَ فِي الْمَهْدِ صَبِيًّا {29}
[Shakir 19:29] But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
[Yusufali 19:29] But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
[Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?


[Pooya/Ali Commentary 19:29]

As stated in the commentary of verse 26 the child in the cradle, Isa, was selected by Allah to give the answer. This verse and verse 46 of Ali Imran clearly say that Isa, lying in the cradle, spoke clearly to defend his holy mother. It is downright mischief-making based upon meaningless interpretation to say, as the commentator of a man-made religion tries to argue, that Isa declared his prophethood in his advanced age and not from the cradle while he was yet an infant. The people questioned Maryam about her giving birth to a child without a husband as soon as Isa was born, not when he grew up and attained maturity.


In verse 26 she was asked not to give her own answers, therefore when she brought him to them and was reprimanded, she pointed to the baby in the cradle as stated in verse 27, 28 and 29. That this event took place immediately after the birth of Isa is also confirmed by verse 29 since the people asked as to how they could talk to one who was a child in the cradle. It would be sheer nonsense if they had spoken these words when Isa was a grown up man.


When the self-interest oriented people do not find the exalted excellence the chosen servants of Allah possess in their favourite leaders whom they themselves choose to lay hands on worldly possessions, they have no alternative but to deny the possibility of such excellence altogether. They twist the appropriate meanings of the verses of the Quran and introduced remote and obscure inferences to confuse the people in order to put forward their conjecture and false theories. As mentioned in Baqarah: 117; Ali Imran: 40; Nahl: 40; Bani Israil: 35 and Ya Sin: 28 the will of Allah takes immediate effect without any time gap. His will is independent of any causative factor, nor is it necessary for Allah even to say the word "Be", because as soon as His will activates that which it wills comes into being or takes place with or without a causative effect at once without a delay in terms of time or space.


From the cradle Isa says: "Allah has given me a book (Injil) and made me a prophet." Compare the Quran's declaration that Isa was a prophet of Allah from the day he was born and the Injil was revealed to him simultaneously with the opinions of the majority of Muslim scholars and their followers about the Holy Prophet mentioned in the commentary of verse 12 of this surah and al Baqarah: 97.


The Holy Prophet said:


"I was a prophet of Allah when Adam was yet in the making."


Like Isa Ali ibn abi Talib was also a believer in Allah from the day he was born in Ka-bah, and was the first person to believe in the prophethood of the Holy Prophet, and never worshipped a ghayrallah. Refer to the commentary al Baqarah: 124; Ali Imran: 52 and 53 and Bara-at: 100.


In verse 30 Isa declares at the very outset that he is a servant of Allah, thus negating the false notion that he was God or the son of God. Refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 255 and Ali Imran: 2 and 3. Isa said: "I am Jesus, son of Mary, of the seed of David, a man that is mortal and fears God,"

Ragg's "The Gospel of Barnabas")



قَالَ إِنِّي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ آتَانِيَ الْكِتَابَ وَجَعَلَنِي نَبِيًّا {30}
[Shakir 19:30] He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
[Yusufali 19:30] He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
[Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,



وَجَعَلَنِي مُبَارَكًا أَيْنَ مَا كُنتُ وَأَوْصَانِي بِالصَّلَاةِ وَالزَّكَاةِ مَا دُمْتُ حَيًّا {31}
[Shakir 19:31] And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
[Yusufali 19:31] "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
[Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,



As a child Isa refutes the charges of illegitimate birth by declaring that Allah has made him blessed wheresoever he be. The will of Allah, as creator of nature and the laws of nature, controls their working without any limitation on its independent activity, because any kind of limitation would circumvent His absolute omnipotence. Leave aside causing birth of a man without the agency of a father or even without a mother and father (Dahr:1), Allah has the absolute power to create children for Ibrahim out of stones, as stated in Luke 3: 8.


Salat and zakat have been enjoined on him by Allah as long as he lived. Salat does not mean only movements of the parts of the body but it refers here to the spirit or mental attitude of prayer, because the soul of a prophet of Allah is always in communion with his Lord who has sent him in the world with a purpose. Likewise zakat here refers to the generosity a prophet of Allah necessarily displays in his thought and action.



وَبَرًّا بِوَالِدَتِي وَلَمْ يَجْعَلْنِي جَبَّارًا شَقِيًّا {32}
[Shakir 19:32] And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
[Yusufali 19:32] "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
[Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.




وَالسَّلَامُ عَلَيَّ يَوْمَ وُلِدتُّ وَيَوْمَ أَمُوتُ وَيَوْمَ أُبْعَثُ حَيًّا {33}
[Shakir 19:33] And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life.
[Yusufali 19:33] "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
[Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!





ذَلِكَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ قَوْلَ الْحَقِّ الَّذِي فِيهِ يَمْتَرُونَ {34}
[Shakir 19:34] Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.
[Yusufali 19:34] Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
[Pickthal 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.


[Pooya/Ali Commentary 19:34] (see commentary for verse 16)
Those who thought that the birth of Isa without a father was not possible and Maryam was making up a story were in fact questioning the omnipotent powers of Allah. What has been said in the commentary of verse 16 to 40 in connection with the will of Allah is sufficient to silence those who rely on ignorance to dispute the miraculous birth of Isa and other miracles wrought by the chosen representatives of Allah under His command.


http://www.al-islam.org/quran" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Q
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by Q »

FYI/E



تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ مِّنْهُم مَّن كَلَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَفَعَ بَعْضَهُمْ دَرَجَاتٍ وَآتَيْنَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَيَّدْنَاهُ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلَ الَّذِينَ مِن بَعْدِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَلَـكِنِ اخْتَلَفُواْ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ آمَنَ وَمِنْهُم مَّن كَفَرَ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلُواْ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يُرِيدُ {253}

[Shakir 2:253] We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by (many degrees of) rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa son of Marium, and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends.

[Yusufali 2:253] Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.

[Pickthal 2:253] Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the holy Spirit. And if Allah had so wiled it, those who followed after them would not have fought one with another after the clear proofs had come unto them. But they differed, some of them believing and some disbelieving. And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:253]

Although all the prophets of Allah are equally truthful and holy, but in the same way that some signs are clearer and contain deeper messages than others, so Allah's messengers are of different ranks. The particular mention of Musa and Isa is to point out their distinguished positions as the reformers. Musa was directly addressed by Allah, and Isa was assisted by the ruhul qudus (the holy spirit). Both these prophets of Allah glorified the Holy Prophet and gave to the people the glad tidings of his arrival. Refer to the text of the Bible (Deut 18: 5, 18, 19; Acts 3: 22 to 25; John 14: 16, 17; John 16: 7 to 14) mentioned in the commentary of al Baqarah: 40.

It would be a false and contradictory statement if it was said that the above-noted verses of the Old and the New Testaments refer to Jesus, because Isa himself, like Musa, gave the news of the advent of the Holy Prophet in John 14: 16, 17 and John 16: 7 to 14.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

In addition to the guiding statements of the two distinguished prophets of Allah - Musa to whom Allah spoke, and Isa to whom He gave clear miracles and strengthened with the holy spirit. there are several verses in the Quran, according to which the Holy Prophet occupies the highest place in the company of all the prophets of Allah. He is the superior-most messenger of Allah. The glory of the divinity of the Lord manifests, reflects and radiates in him to maximum perfection. Endowed with perfection, he was sent as a "mercy unto the worlds" (Ambia: 107). The other prophets were sent to guide a particular people in a particular place (Matthew 10: 5 and 6), therefore, in view of their limited mission, they are not on the level of the Holy Prophet who was sent to guide and discipline the whole mankind for all times (Saba: 28). As the Holy Prophet is the best of all the prophets of Allah, a distinguished group among his followers has been raised up by Allah as khayra ummatin, the best of all the people (see commentary of verse 110 of Ali Imran).
To understand kalamallaku (Allah spoke) it is necessary to refer to verse 51 of al Shura:

"It is not to any mortal (man) that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or through (from behind) a veil,"

Allah does not speak in the sense attributed to the created beings who use the mouth and the tongue to produce sound. The veil can be anything which can be caused to produce sound.

This verse implies that a large number of messengers were sent by Allah. He made some of these messengers to excel others, and some of them He exalted in rank. In the end He sent the best of them all, the Holy Prophet, to guide mankind on the right path and prevent the people of the world, in all times, from going astray in the direction of Shaytan, their avowed enemy. There is no compulsion in religion. It is not the plan of the almighty that guidance should be imposed upon any individual or community. There is complete freedom to any person who wants to go astray. Allah does not keep any one on the right path under duress if he himself, through reason and intelligence, does not make willing efforts to walk on the right path. The followers of the prophets, including the followers of the Holy Prophet, fought one another, went astray and followed the path of the devil as soon as the divinely commissioned guides, with clear signs and arguments, had left them. If Allah had willed, this straying could be stopped. He brings about what He wills. He could guide the people without the agency of the prophets, but He has given freedom to man to use reason and intelligence to distinguish between good and evil and make efforts to do good and earn reward, or make mischief and collect punishment. The door of guidance is kept open for those who sincerely seek the true direction.

As for those who strive in Us, We certainly show them our paths. (Ankabut: 69).

To fulfil this promise, the merciful Lord has established the divine institution of imamat as soon as the risalat came to an end-Ali ibna abi Talib is the first and Muhammad al Mahdi, the living Imam, is the last of the twelve divinely commissioned and infallible holy guide-leaders.

To keep himself on the right path, man has been asked to seek Allah's help by reciting al Fatihah in every salat. See the commentary of verses 5 to 7 of al Fatihah.

The guidance has been made known. Now whosoever goes right, it is only for the good of his own soul that he goes right, and whosoever errs, errs only to hurt himself. Each soul earns only on its own account. According to the following verses, man has been given an independent free will to act:

BAQARAH : 48

AN-AM : 165

HIJR : 42

BANI ISRAIL : 7 and 15

ANKABUT : 6

FATIR : 17

ZUMAR : 7

HA MIM : 46

DAHR : 2

The individual differences in the prophets of Allah are on account of the level of intelligence and the needs of the people amongst whom they were sent, to show them what was right and what was wrong. The manner of receiving the inspiration from Allah and the nature and limitation of every prophet's mission were determined in accordance with the ability of the people to understand and grasp the message. The last message of Allah was perfect, complete, final and conclusive. Therefore, the prophet who was chosen to deliver the final message was the most superior of all the prophets. He was not only the last prophet but also the foremost in total submission to the will of Allah.
Musa was honoured with the divine speech, Isa with the holy spirit, Ibrahim with shuhud (vision), but the Holy Prophet had the distinction of receiving the divine inspiration and revelation through all the mediums-see verse 43 of al Anfal and verse 60 of Bani Israil for vision in dreams, verse I of Bani Israil for vision in wakefulness; verses 192 to 195 of al Shu-ara, verse 52 of al Shura for the holy spirit; verses 1 to 16 of al Najm and verses 1 to 4 of al Rahman for direct instructions .

This verse clearly states that the discord and strife among the followers of the prophets is due to belief (iman) and disbelief (kufr), therefore, the apologetic attempt of some of the theologians to justify the dissension and conflict between the various religions or the sects of each religion as the outcome of ijtihad or discretion is based upon conjecture, and therefore, untenable.

According to Quran, such differences between the people of the scriptures is due to their rebellious attitude against the clearly manifested will and command of Allah. See verse 19 of Ali Imran and verses 13 of 14 of al Shura. The responsibility for wrongdoing rests with the man; and whatever good he does is from Allah.

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piscohot
Posts: 2187
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:16 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by piscohot »

Q wrote:For Your Information/Eduction (FYI/E)

Qur'an 19;27-34

فَأَتَتْ بِهِ قَوْمَهَا تَحْمِلُهُ قَالُوا يَا مَرْيَمُ لَقَدْ جِئْتِ شَيْئًا فَرِيًّا {27}
[Shakir 19:27] And she came to her people with him, carrying him (with her). They said: O Marium! surely you have done a strange thing.
[Yusufali 19:27] At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
[Pickthal 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.



يَا أُخْتَ هَارُونَ مَا كَانَ أَبُوكِ امْرَأَ سَوْءٍ وَمَا كَانَتْ أُمُّكِ بَغِيًّا {28}
[Shakir 19:28] O sister of Haroun! your father was not a bad man, nor, was your mother an unchaste woman.
[Yusufali 19:28] "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
[Pickthal 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.


Aqa Mahdi Puya says:


Many Christian scholars have failed to understand the term "O sister of Harun", although, according to the Bible, Maryam and Zakariyya's wife were related to each other, and Zakariyya's wife was a descendant of the house of Harun. Generally any female belonging to a family is described as a sister or daughter of the head of the family. The Quran and the Bible assert that Maryam and Zakariyya's wife were the descendants of Harun, the brother of Musa, a prophet of God, and through him belonged to the tribe of Levi, noted for virtue and piety, and not to the house of Dawud. In order to remove the discrepancies between the two genealogies, given in Matthew and Luke, the Christian Church wrongly tries to establish that one refers to Maryam and the other refers to Joseph, the alleged husband of Maryam, which is entirely based upon conjecture and is against the clear wordings of the Quran and the Bible.
For Your Information/Education (FYI/E)

Which part of the bible said Mary was a descendant of Aaron?
Is Mary from the tribe of Levi or Judah?
Quran miracle (16:69) : Bees eat ALL fruits
Quran miracle (27:18) : an ant SAID, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

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The Cat
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Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by The Cat »

Q wrote:"My light was created when Adam was not even in the process of creation.. "

Iqra (read, recite or proclaim) implies that the Holy Prophet knew all the names of Allah which carry the essence of creation and legislation (...).

The last message of Allah was perfect, complete, final and conclusive. Therefore, the prophet who was chosen to deliver the final message was the most superior of all the prophets. He was not only the last prophet but also the foremost in total submission to the will of Allah.
How strange then that Muhammad didn't even followed the Quran! Let us see...

Muhammad Had Violated the Quran (Abul Kasem)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AbulKasem51209.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Muhammad broke the rule on sex during fasting: Compare 2.187 with Bukhari 1.6.319 & 3.31.149.

Muhammad violated the Qur’anic rules on dower (mehr): Compare 4.04 with Bukhari 5.59.523-524.

Muhammad had violated the rule of idda (waiting period) in marrying a woman: Compare 2.228 & 2.234 with Bukhari 4.52.143

The uncontrollable sexual lusts of Muhammad dismiss him as a Prophet of G-d from the first...
Joseph Smith: Muhammad's Sins & Sexuality.
http://zionsake.tripod.com/MuC4-Mu_character.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No woman who loves her husband and wishes to be fully loved in return, can tolerate a partner (why else was Hafsa so upset with Muhammad when he took the Copt Mary to her bed?). Take for instance a report from Aisha, Muhammad's favorite wife (recorded in Mishkat 1, pg.210, and noted in the Hadiths collected by al-Bukhari and Muslim). This report quotes her as saying: "I used to backbite those (females) who offered themselves for the Messenger of Allah. So I asked: Does a woman offer herself? Then the Almighty Allah revealed: you (Muhammad) may put off whom you please of them, you may take to you whom you wish, and if you desire any whom you have separated, no blame attaches to you (from Sura 33:51). It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire."

There is a further aspect: monogamy gives recognition, status and integrity to a woman. It is simplistic to argue that a polygamous society makes prostitution unnecessary. What about sexual fulfilment for the woman who has to share her husband with other wives? And what about the men who surely have to go without wives, because someone else (usually an older and thus richer man) has more than one? When we look at the life of Muhammad we find an even larger emphasis on sex, and the fulfilment of carnal desires. Consider the following examples:

According to tradition, Muhammad would take a rota with his wives, sleeping with each in their turn. One night, during Hafsa's turn, she asked to visit her father, and Muhammad granted her request. While she was gone, however, Muhammad took Mary the Coptic slave-girl and slept with her in Hafsa's bed. Hafsa returned, was enraged, and confronted Muhammad. He promised (on oath) not to touch Mary again if she would keep this a secret, and then promised that her father Umar would be his successor after Abu Bakr (according to al-Sira al- Halabiyya, vol.2).

Hafsah, however, told Aisha of the incident, and for a full month Muhammad had no dealings with any of his wives, living with Mary alone. Aisha berated Muhammad for his deceit, whereupon Muhammad was finally given the vision recorded in Sura 66:1, in order to defend himself (Mizanu'l Haqq, pg.330 and Mishkat II, pgs.680-681) (read Ali's version of 66:1, plus footnotes). This Sura says, "O prophet, why forbiddest thou what God has made lawful to thee, seeking the good pleasure of thy wives...?" Based on this ayya it seems that God is in the business of not only getting Muhammad out of his 'jams', but that God justifies unfaithfulness and deceit as well. (...)

Our final category asks whether Muhammad, unlike Jesus (Sura 19:19), ever sinned. Can the same be said of Muhammad that was said of Jesus? I believe not! The Qur'an admits that the sins of Muhammad were many and that they weighed heavily on him. Sura 94:1-3 speaks of this when it says: "Have We not expanded thee thy breast? And removed from thee they burden, the which did gall thy back?" These verses indicate that Allah had to remove Muhammad's burdens (sin) from his back. Muslims contend that these sins were committed before he became a prophet (before 610). We need only refer to Sura 48:2 which says in reference to Muhammad, "Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow..." indicating that even after the Sura was delivered Allah expected him to sin.

In Suras 40:55 and Sura 47:19 we find written, "...and ask forgiveness for thy fault..." This seems straightforward, until you read Yusuf Ali's note at the bottom (4428), which explains that due to the prophet's responsibilities he asks forgiveness in a representative capacity. Leaving Yusuf Ali's "eisegesis" aside it seems evident that Muhammad, a weak and sinful man, pales in comparison to Jesus, the sinless and perfect incarnate God Himself. As an outside observer, we find it incredulous that Muhammad is permitted to live outside of the very rules which he has ordained for the believers (i.e. permitted to marry more than four wives, or permitted to marry the wife of his adopted son, or permitted to consummate a marriage to a girl of only nine).

Yet, according to Islam, he is, at the same time, the absolute example of which all believers are to model. One is left with a set of contradictions: How are we to follow the model of a prophet who himself abrogates the very parameters which he has set for us to live by? To follow his example would contravene his laws. If a person is asked to follow a certain leader, they would weigh up the 'pros and cons' before reaching a decision. But when truth and eternal life are involved, expediency on temporal issues no longer applies. So when we are told to follow in the footsteps of a spiritual leader, our confidence must not be emotional alone; our confidence must be rational. (...)

In light of that we ask whether Muhammad follows the standards by which he has set for himself; and we find him to be wanting. The historical record shows us that he abrogated his call to the Jews when he exiled them from Medina and executed the males of the Kurayza tribe. His claim to be the Seal of the prophets rings hollow in light of his carnal inadequacies, especially in comparison with the other prophets who preceded him. Finally we ask whether Muhammad fits the pattern of a prophet which we find in our own scriptures. That is the true test for us as Christians. From our study last week it was easy to ascertain that Muhammad failed in this category as well.
As a fact, most cult leaders (like David Koresh) are driven by such depraved lust, far from our understanding of a prophet.

Bukhari V9, B93, #482: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
''I repent to You and with You (Your evidences) I stand against my opponents, and to you I leave the judgment (for those who refuse my message). O Allah! Forgive me my sins that I did in the past or will do in the future, and also the sins I did in secret or in public."

The Shamanic trances seizing Muhammad were rather demonic, that is deceitful and self-serving...
Pictures from: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=715&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ImageImage

ImageImageImage

It's even worst than pictured above since some words are a mistranslation!

Errors in the comic of Zainab (by 0x29a): viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The verse from the quran (33.37) says that Zaid got what he wanted from her. and Muhammad tried to hide his lust or feelings for her.. and he was afraid to tell the people. but he should have only been afraid of god. and got married her to mohammad and god says at the end "And Allah's command must be fulfilled." or "it was to be fulfilled". Mistranslation.. (marriage formalities) in the english translation was supposed to reflect the arabic word watara used in the quranic verse.. which means "a need" .. in other words... "he's got what he needed from her" .. "so he's done with her" .. that would be sex.. of course.الحاجةُ: the need
أو حاجةٌ لك فيها هَمٌّ وعِنايةٌ: or a need that you care so much about.
فإذا بَلَغْتَها، فقد قَضَيْتَ وطَرَك: if you got it, then you got your watar. (and its not a need anymore).
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Q
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by Q »

[quote="The Cat

Muhammad Had Violated the Quran (Abul Kasem)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AbulKasem51209.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Muhammad broke the rule on sex during fasting: Compare 2.187 with Bukhari 1.6.319 & 3.31.149.

Muhammad violated the Qur’anic rules on dower (mehr): Compare 4.04 with Bukhari 5.59.523-524.

Muhammad had violated the rule of idda (waiting period) in marrying a woman: Compare 2.228 & 2.234 with Bukhari 4.52.143

The uncontrollable sexual lusts of Muhammad dismiss him as a Prophet of G-d from the first...
).[/quote]

------------------------------------------

Qur'an 53:1-5

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَى {1}
[Shakir 53:1] I swear by the star when it goes down.
[Yusufali 53:1] By the Star when it goes down,-
[Pickthal 53:1] By the Star when it setteth,

مَا ضَلَّ صَاحِبُكُمْ وَمَا غَوَى {2}
[Shakir 53:2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;
[Yusufali 53:2] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
[Pickthal 53:2] Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived;

وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى {3}
[Shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.
[Yusufali 53:3] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
[Pickthal 53:3] Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.

إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى {4}
[Shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed,
[Yusufali 53:4] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
[Pickthal 53:4] It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,

عَلَّمَهُ شَدِيدُ الْقُوَى {5}
[Shakir 53:5] The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
[Yusufali 53:5] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
[Pickthal 53:5] Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,



*****

The six Imam Ja’far Ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq narrates from the Holy Prophet: ‘ For every truth there is a way of verification and for every right thing there is light to be thrown on it. Therefore, whatever is in conformity with the Qur’an take it, and whatever is contrary to it leave it.’ When asked about the conflicting reports narrated from the Holy Prophet or from the Imams of the house of the Holy Prophet, he said: ‘ The one which is supported by the evidence from the Qur’an or from the sayings of the Holy Prophet take it, otherwise return it to the person who brought it.’ Everything should be evaluated by comparing it with the Book of God and the teachings of the Holy Prophet, and any tradition which does not agree with the Book of God is spurious and must be rejected.

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by yeezevee »

Q writes some junk from that sixth Imam of Shia Muslims, Mr. Ja’far Ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq
The one which is supported by the evidence from the Qur’an or from the sayings of the Holy Prophet take it, otherwise return it to the person who brought it.’ Everything should be evaluated by comparing it with the Book of God and the teachings of the Holy Prophet, and any tradition which does not agree with the Book of God is spurious and must be rejected.
and puts out some silly Qur'an 53:1-5

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَى {1}
[Shakir 53:1] I swear by the star when it goes down.

مَا ضَلَّ صَاحِبُكُمْ وَمَا غَوَى {2}
[Shakir 53:2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;
[

وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى {3}
[Shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.

إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى {4}
[Shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed,


عَلَّمَهُ شَدِيدُ الْقُوَى {5}
[Shakir 53:5] The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
Just writing few rhyming words like

" "I swear by the star when it goes down.
I swear by the Dog that is dying
I swear by the donkey that is eating
I swear by the horse that is running
I swear by the women in Burkha "



does not make Quran as word of Allah/God dear "Q".. More over you are Shia Muslim.. Man look before Muhammad, Iran was far more progressive in every thing including spiritual teachings and human rights. Damn Bedouin baboons dragged that country down to the Arabian desert with silly words that you pasted. you call them Words from Allah? words from God?? you are out of your mind dear "Q"

with best wishes
yeezevee

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The Cat
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: Muhammad, prophet or shaman?

Post by The Cat »

Q wrote: [Shakir 53:1] I swear by the star when it goes down.
Now we've got Allah swearing by his Creation (the star)! That's a mindless thing to do from an Almighty G-d,
in which he swears upon things inferior to him. As if I was to swear by my lamplight that the sunlight exist!
How serious is this? It makes Allah a joke unto Himself!

The rest is just the circular argument:
Allah is true because the Koran said so; the Koran is true because Muhammad said so.
Thus, Muhammad is true because Allah said so in the Koran. Repeat ad nauseam...:secret:
The six Imam Ja’far Ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq narrates from the Holy Prophet: ‘ For every truth
there is a way of verification and for every right thing there is light to be thrown on it. Therefore,
whatever is in conformity with the Qur’an take it, and whatever is contrary to it leave it.
How's that now: Muhammad is dismissing himself since he didn't followed the rules of Allah but his own!

Allah isn't true since Muhammad busted the Koran, which can't be true since Allah was fooled by His own prophet!
Again, Allah is a joke unto Himself for taking Muhammad as a prophet, knowing he would deceive from the first.
Unless, of course, if insanity can be invoke as a blessing factor! :thinking:
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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