Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

His life, his examples and his psychology
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SAM
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
Even if I take into account that your English is not good at times, it still does not add up. Nazarene was talking to YOU, not any hypothetical student. There were no other Muslims contributing at all.
FFI a silly and rubbish site and promote extreme hate against the Islam. This is why Muslims ignore all the ugly stupidity stuff about Islam and Prophet Muhammad.
Essentially he was trying to say politely that there is not a lot of point debating with you, and he would prefer to talk to a more scholarly person. You responded by saying that Nazarene is not a scholar, but you are a "learned Madrasa Student".
Do you think I look alike Indonesian Madrasa Student or Pesantren in your country. They promote of violence against non-Muslims....
As there simply is nobody else around your reference could possibly refer to; it must have been you, however much you want to wriggle around now.Then, a few hours later you tell me that you are in fact not a Madrasa student.
It’s up to you.
Look, it does not bother me what you are or what your level of education is; I just raised this simple aside-point because it says something about your way of operating on this forum. I don't want to embarrass you, so let's leave it now.
You feel embarrassed because all of your friends know you have a learning problem.
Looking at your response, something occurred to me... may be be so bold and ask your age? I asumed up to now you are a grown-up, and now I am starting to suspect I am wrong on that... If you are just a kid, then I should not be so hard on you...
Dirty old Manfred :stupid:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
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SAM
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

[quote="Nazarene"]Two can play at this game, I'm turning the tables here, forget Muhammad, I'm more interested in the future of Islam. Here's what the Bible prophecies for SPAM's precious Mahdi:
Spoiler! :
27 Behold, the name of YHWH comes from far away, burning with his anger, and in thick rising smoke. His lips are full of indignation, and his tongue is as a devouring fire. 28 His breath is as an overflowing stream that reaches even to the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of destruction; and a bridle that leads to ruin will be in the jaws of the peoples. 29 You will have a song, as in the night when a holy feast is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goes with a flute to come to YHWH's mountain, to Israel's Rock. 30 YHWH will cause his glorious voice to be heard, and will show the descent of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and the flame of a devouring fire, with a blast, storm, and hailstones. 31 For through the voice of YHWH the Assyrian will be dismayed. He will strike him with his rod. 32 Every stroke of the rod of punishment, which YHWH will lay on him, will be with the sound of tambourines and harps. He will fight with them in battles, brandishing weapons. 33 For his burning place has long been ready. Yes, for the king it is made ready. He has made its pyre deep and large with fire and much wood. YHWH's breath, like a stream of sulfur, kindles it. (Isaiah 30:27-33)

4 For thus says YHWH to me, "As the lion and the young lion growling over his prey, if a multitude of shepherds is called together against him, will not be dismayed at their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them, so YHWH of Armies will come down to fight on Mount Zion and on its heights. 5 As birds hovering, so YHWH of Armies will protect Jerusalem. He will protect and deliver it. He will pass over and preserve it."

6 Return to him from whom you have deeply revolted, children of Israel. 7 For in that day everyone shall cast away his idols of silver and his idols of gold--sin which your own hands have made for you. 8 "The Assyrian will fall by the sword, not of man; and the sword, not of mankind, shall devour him. He will flee from the sword, and his young men will become subject to forced labor. 9 His rock will pass away by reason of terror, and his princes will be afraid of the banner," says YHWH, whose fire is in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem.
(Isaiah 31:4-9)

And for the Mahdi's army of blag flags:

25 Behold, the days come, says YHWH, that I will punish all those who are circumcised in [their] uncircumcision: (Jeremiah 9:25)

18 Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, to the lower parts of the earth, with those who go down into the pit. 19 Whom do you pass in beauty? Go down, and be laid with the uncircumcised. 20 They shall fall in the midst of those who are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword; draw her away and all her multitudes. 21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of Sheol with those who help him: they are gone down, they lie still, even the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.

22 Asshur is there and all her company; her graves are all around her; all of them slain, fallen by the sword; 23 whose graves are set in the uttermost parts of the pit, and her company is around her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who caused terror in the land of the living.

24 There is Elam and all her multitude around her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who are gone down uncircumcised into the lower parts of the earth, who caused their terror in the land of the living, and have borne their shame with those who go down to the pit. 25 They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude; her graves are around her; all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword; for their terror was caused in the land of the living, and they have borne their shame with those who go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of those who are slain.

26 There is Meshech, Tubal, and all their multitude; their graves are around them; all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword; for they caused their terror in the land of the living. 27 They shall not lie with the mighty who are fallen of the uncircumcised, who are gone down to Sheol with their weapons of war, and have laid their swords under their heads, and their iniquities are on their bones; for [they were] the terror of the mighty in the land of the living. 28 But you shall be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shall lie with those who are slain by the sword.

29 There is Edom, her kings and all her princes, who in their might are laid with those who are slain by the sword: they shall lie with the uncircumcised, and with those who go down to the pit.

30 There are the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Sidonians, who are gone down with the slain; in the terror which they caused by their might they are put to shame; and they lie uncircumcised with those who are slain by the sword, and bear their shame with those who go down to the pit.

31 Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army, slain by the sword, says the Lord YHWH. 32 For I have put his terror in the land of the living; and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised, with those who are slain by the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, says the Lord YHWH.
(Ezekiel 32:18-32)

What do all those countries have in common? Today they are all Muslim. Why are they being judge?

35:1 Moreover the word of YHWH came to me, saying, 2 Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir, and prophesy against it, 3 and tell it, Thus says the Lord YHWH: Behold, I am against you, Mount Seir, and I will stretch out my hand against you, and I will make you a desolation and an astonishment. 4 I will lay your cities waste, and you shall be desolate; and you shall know that I am YHWH. 5 Because you have had a perpetual enmity, and have given over the children of Israel to the power of the sword in the time of their calamity, in the time of the iniquity of the end; 6 therefore, as I live, says the Lord YHWH, I will prepare you for blood, and blood shall pursue you: since you have not hated blood, therefore blood shall pursue you. 7 Thus will I make Mount Seir an astonishment and a desolation; and I will cut off from it him who passes through and him who returns. 8 I will fill its mountains with its slain: in your hills and in your valleys and in all your watercourses shall they fall who are slain with the sword. 9 I will make you a perpetual desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited; and you shall know that I am YHWH. (Ezekiel 35:1-9)

There you have it SPAM, that's the future for your prophet's legacy, God just has one more dellusion to send you, the Mahdi:

7 For the mystery of wickedness has already begun to work, however, [it will work] by itself when that which now holds [it] back is taken away from the middle. 8 And then the unjust [one] will be revealed, whom our master Yeshua will consume by the breath of his mouth, and he will put a stop to him with the manifestation of his coming. 9 For the coming of that [one] is by the working of Satan, with all power pand signs and lying wonders 10 and with all the deception of wickedness that is in the perishing [ones], because they did not receive the love of the truth by which they should have life. 11 Because of this, God will send them the working of deception that they should believe the lie 12 and [that] all of them would be condemned, those who did not believe with truthfulness, but delighted in wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12)
I don't believe in Mahdi or his existence. Mahdi is nothing but a myth. :sleeping:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
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manfred
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by manfred »

manfred wrote:Looking at your response, something occurred to me... may be be so bold and ask your age? I asumed up to now you are a grown-up, and now I am starting to suspect I am wrong on that... If you are just a kid, then I should not be so hard on you...
sam wrote:Dirty old Manfred


ok, that's a clear enough answer, either you are a kid no older than about 15 or 16 or you have a mental handicap... No grown up, averagely intelligent person has a mind as warped as that. That whole reply sounds like an angry, spoilt school kid shouting across the playground. Did your mother not teach you manners? How ashamed she would be if she saw how you talk.

Also, if you don't approve of this site, then why are you here? I think you meet all the criteria of a "troll". Please do stay around, you are very helpful in some ways... :D
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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SAM
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
ok, that's a clear enough answer, either you are a kid no older than about 15 or 16 or you have a mental handicap... No grown up, averagely intelligent person has a mind as warped as that. That whole reply sounds like an angry, spoilt school kid shouting across the playground. Did your mother not teach you manners? How ashamed she would be if she saw how you talk.
Borobudur, the great Buddhist teach me. :*)
Also, if you don't approve of this site, then why are you here? I think you meet all the criteria of a "troll". Please do stay around, you are very helpful in some ways... :D
At Least someone appreciate my 'best' arguments. Thanks. :farside:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
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manfred
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by manfred »

Ok, that's enough... run along, it must be your bedtime in your part of the world...

Borubudur is a PLACE, by the way, not a person.

In future, talk nicely, and people may start listening to you. If it makes you happier, on any threads we have met, I always read your posts carefully, and if I pick them apart,it's not to upset you but to make you look. It's a pity that you cannot see how so many people here have tried so hard to make you look at things. As you say yourself, you ignore most of what people say to you here.

Still, I am a very patient man, and I will keep on showing youn things you don't want to see, not because I want to hurt you, but because I want to help you.

Ok, sleep well for now...
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by Chief Chingachgook »

manfred's sig reads: Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%" :lotpot:

Allow me to re-phrase that : Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "You may plunder and confiscate but give me 20%"

SAM can rant and rant till his CPU battery go dead but the reality is that Mr. PissBUH is an exact opposite of Jesus not only in his person but in his preachings as well. Jesus was willing to die for His people but in Mr. PissBUH's case someone else must die for his cause. mohsharmoot is a bad tree whose rotten fruits stinks and pollute this planet.
I was chingachgook in the old forum. In this new Reservation forum I was made a Chief :whistling:
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SAM
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Ok, that's enough... run along, it must be your bedtime in your part of the world...

Borubudur is a PLACE, by the way, not a person.

In future, talk nicely, and people may start listening to you. If it makes you happier, on any threads we have met, I always read your posts carefully, and if I pick them apart,it's not to upset you but to make you look. It's a pity that you cannot see how so many people here have tried so hard to make you look at things. As you say yourself, you ignore most of what people say to you here.

Still, I am a very patient man, and I will keep on showing youn things you don't want to see, not because I want to hurt you, but because I want to help you.

Ok, sleep well for now...
Re: Debate with a Muslim, my responses, suggestions? by manfred » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:49 am

Hi,

my penny's worth of advice is this:
Don't overwhelm him with long posts.
Allow him to control tbe pace.
Let him talk to you and listen. Be more of a listener than a talker.Let him learn from himself by asking him questions.
Be polite even if he gets angry with you, but do not mince your words about Islam. Don't be an appeaser. Your Muslim friend deserves respect and kindness, Islam does not.
Answer his questions, clearly and simply, in as short an answer as your conscience would allow. Be honest and direct.
Don't tell him what to believe, but help him to ask questions. Don't tolerate logical fallacies. Explain the problem calmly.
And here is the most important one: You are taking your friend out of his zone of comfort and safety, so be patient. Make sure he will discover that Islam does not have to be central to his identity. Let him see what he can gain by setting himself free.

You did your best to advice them go back to school and study hard again. :*)
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

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SAM wrote: It is a fact and you all afraid of the rapid growth of Islam in the world. Am I right? :*)
Simple answer? No. :lol:
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:So, which of the two things you said is true? They cannot be both true, unless they kicked you out of the madrasa you claimed to be part of, maybe because you are on this site a lot. So which is it? When did you lie? Or did you leave your madrassa a few minutes ago?
He thought that debate was a good way to teach learned Muslim about Quran... Nazarene stumbled when I asked him a simple question about verse he cited. That s why I said,"You ain't scholar.......... You can engages in explicit debate with a learned Madrasa Students". Is that clear?
I always wondered how people can go to the Madrasa and "learn" how to be stupid. :lol: I always thought the two terms were contradictory, but apparently not always. :lol:
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SAM
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
SAM wrote: It is a fact and you all afraid of the rapid growth of Islam in the world. Am I right? :*)
Simple answer? No. :lol:
Your mouth says NO, NO, NO... But your conscience says YES,YES,YES it's true... Am I right? :whistling:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
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SAM
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
SAM wrote:
manfred wrote:So, which of the two things you said is true? They cannot be both true, unless they kicked you out of the madrasa you claimed to be part of, maybe because you are on this site a lot. So which is it? When did you lie? Or did you leave your madrassa a few minutes ago?
He thought that debate was a good way to teach learned Muslim about Quran... Nazarene stumbled when I asked him a simple question about verse he cited. That s why I said,"You ain't scholar.......... You can engages in explicit debate with a learned Madrasa Students". Is that clear?
I always wondered how people can go to the Madrasa and "learn" how to be stupid. :lol: I always thought the two terms were contradictory, but apparently not always. :lol:
I've never been to Madrasa in my whole life. I learned from the divine knowledge of the Truth of Truth's. :*)
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by ygalg »

SAM wrote: It is a fact and you all afraid of the rapid growth of Islam in the world. Am I right? :*)
what's that got to do with the topic which you opened? does it verifies muhammad is like biblical moses? judging from your inconsistent replies, you're unable to prove right.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by ygalg »

manfred wrote:@ygaig
ygaig, I seriously doubt you will be able to get any sort of sensible conversation going with this SAM guy....
give him time. he will eventually come to his senses.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer
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manfred
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by manfred »

Some more comparisons between Moses and Mohammed…
113.001 “Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn from the mischief of the evil He created.”

The “Lord of the Dawn”, is Lucifer, the morning star.
So the Morning Star, the Prince of Darkness—creates the mischief of evil. Muhammad tells us to take refuge with the devil. This “Lord of the Dawn” creates evil, so it cannot be God. If “Lord of the Dawn” is seen as a reference to Allah, then Allah is the creator of evil, which makes him….?
Moses tells us to accept the guidance of JHWH. The 10 commandments revealed by Moses are guidance in a nutshell: simple, clear and beautiful in its caring.
113.003 “From the mischievous evil of Darkness as it becomes intensely dark, and from the mischief of those who practice the evil of malignant witchcraft and blowing on knots, and from the mischievous evil of the envier when he covets.”

Muhammad is indicting his own behaviour. He did the very things he claimed were demonic:
Bukhari:V7B71N643 “I heard the Prophet saying, ‘If anyone sees something he dislikes, he should blow three times on his left side and its evil will not harm him.’”
Bukhari:V6B61N535 “Whenever the Prophet became ill he used to blow his breath over his body hoping for its blessing.”
Bukhari:V6B61N536 “When the Prophet went to bed he would cup his hands together and blow over them reciting surahs. He would then rub his hands over whatever parts of his body he could reach, starting with his head, face and frontal areas.”

So, unlike Moses, Mohammed did not even follow HIS OWN instructions. The witchcraft he condemns in others, he practises himself. A good leader leads by example. A bully has one rule for himself, and a different one for everybody else. (e.g. How many wives for a Muslim, how many for Mohammed?)
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
So, unlike Moses, Mohammed did not even follow HIS OWN instructions. The witchcraft he condemns in others, he practises himself. A good leader leads by example. A bully has one rule for himself, and a different one for everybody else. (e.g. How many wives for a Muslim, how many for Mohammed?)
Polygamy: According to Jewish Law

In Exodus (Chapter 21, Verse 10) it is stated:

"If he takes him 'another wife', her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage shall be not diminish."

It is evident to even a casual reader of Old Testament that not only is polygamy permitted but also practiced, and that regulations for that have been stipulated in the scriptures.

Polygamy: According to Christianity

The Christian writers say that "monogamy (i.e., marrying one wife only) is the divine ideal. The Creator constituted as a union between one man and one woman (Gen. 2:18-24 Matt. 19:5; 1 Car. 6:i6) He preserves the number of males practically equal to the number of females." (The Westminster Dictionary of Bible, 1944 edition)

We will talk about this supposed equal numbers of males and females later on. Here I would like to quote from the Bible where God addresses David in following words:

"And I gave thee (David) thy master's house, and thy master's 'wives' into thy bosom, and gave thee the House of Israel and of Juda." (2 Sam. 12:8)

How is it that God Himself gave him his 'master's wives' if His intention was to keep the 'one man with one woman' rule? Even in the seventh generation after Adam we find that "Lamech took unto him two wives" (Gen. 4:19); Abraham had three wives; Jacob had 2 wives besides concubines; Moses did not forbid it, instead he brought Laws to regulate it, as has been mentioned in the previous heading.

Christians try to overcome these difficulties implying that the previous prophets had made mistake in marrying more than one wife. But the insurmountable difficulty faces them in case of Moses. Because Moses had brought a Law from God, and if it was God's intention to make marriage 'an union between one man and one wife', why did He give Moses regulations about polygamy? The above-mentioned Dictionary of Bible tries to gloss over this difficulty by saying, "Moses, who was correcting abuses, not suddenly abolishing them, did not forbid polygamy, but discouraged it."

It is a claim, which cannot be justified, because Moses himself married two wives: one was Zipporah, daughter of Jethro (known in Islamic language as Shuaib), the other was a Cushite woman whom Moses married in the 2nd year of the sojourn of the Israelites in the wilderness. (Num. 12:1)

There is no mention anywhere in the scriptures or any other writing that Zipporah was not alive at that time.

So far about Moses and the Prophets before him. Now we come to the prophets who came after this 'supposed discouraging'. We find that polygamy continued to be practiced even after the time of Moses, as by Gideon, Elkanah, Saul, Rehoboam and countless others. For the details, see Judge. 8:30; I Sam. 1:2; II Sam. 12:8; 21:8.

Prophet "David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem." (11 Sam. 5:13). Prophet Solomon "had seven hundred wives, princess, and three hundred concubines." (I Kings 11:3)

Now we came to the period after the ministry of Jesus Christ, SV. Mir Ahmad Ali writes in his translation of the Holy Qur'an:

It has often been asserted that Christianity interdicted polygamy and made monogamy obligatory on all. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

Ameer Ali, speaking of the general prevalence of polygamy among all nations, remarks:

"And so it was understood by the leaders of Christendom that there is no intrinsic immorality or sinfulness in plurality of wives. One of the greatest fathers of the Christian Church (St. Augustine) has declared that polygamy is not a crime where it is a legal institution of a country, and the German reformers, even as late as the sixteenth century, allowed and declared valid the taking of a second or even a third wife, contemporaneously with the first, in default of issue, or any other cause." (Ameer Ali, Life and Teachings, p. 220, and also Ameer Ali, Mohammedan Law, Vol. II p. 23)

"When Christianity made its appearance in Rome, history shows that polygamy was recognized and the early Christian Emperors seem to have admitted its validity." Says Ameer Ali:

The Emperor Valentinian II, by an Edict, allowed all the subjects of the Empire, if they pleased, to marry several wives; nor does it appear from the ecclesiastical history of these times that the Bishops and the heads of the Christian made any objection to this law. Far from it, all the succeeding Emperors practiced polygamy, and the people generally were not remiss in following their example. Even the clergy often had wives. This state of the laws continued until the time of Justinian, who... resulted in their embodiment in the celebrated laws of Justinian. 'But these laws owed little to Christianity, at least directly.' The greatest adviser of Justinian was an atheist and a pagan. Even prohibition of polygamy by Justinian failed to check the tendency of the age. (Ameer Ali, Life and Teachings of Mohammad pp. 222-223) " (S.V. Mir Ahmad Ali, foot note 499)

It should be mentioned here that Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian (527-565) was in the 6th century of Christian era; it means that up to 6th century there was no prohibition of polygamy in Christianity, at all.

The following paragraphs from 'An Apology For Mohammad And Koran' (by John Davenport) show clearly that the Christian Leaders up to at least 16th century did not frown upon polygamy:

St. Chrysostem, speaking of Abraham and Hagar, says, 'These things were not then forbidden.' So St. Augustine observes that 'there was a blameless custom of one man having many wives, which at that time might be done in a way of duty, which now cannot be done but from licentiousness, because for the sake of multiplying posterity, no law forbade a plurality of wives. (See Grotius, De Jure, vol. i. p. 268 note)

Benefice, Confessor of Lower Germany, having consulted Pope Gregory, in the year 726, in order to know in what cases a husband might be allowed to have two wives, Gregory replied, on the 22nd November of the same year, in these words - If a wife be attacked by a malady which renders her unfit for conjugal intercourse, the husband may marry another, but in that case he must allow his sick wife all necessary support and assistance.

Even writers professing Christianity have published many works in defense of polygamy. Bernardo Ochinus, General of the Order of Capuchins, published, about the middle of the sixteenth century, dialogues in favor of the practice, and about the same time appeared a treatise on behalf of a plurality of wives; the author, whose real name was Lysarus, having assumed the pseudo one of The Ophilus Aleuthes.

Selden proves, in his 'Uxor Hebraica', that polygamy was allowed not only among the Jews, but also likewise among all other nations.

But the most distinguished defender of polygamy was the celebrated John Milton, who, in his 'Treatise on Christian Doctrine', after quoting various passages from the Bible in defense of the practice, says, 'Moreover, God, in an allegorical fiction (Ezekiel, xxiii) represents Himself as having espoused two wives, Ahelah and Aholiah a mode of speaking which Jehovah would by no means have employed, especially at such length even in a parable, nor, indeed, have taken upon himself such a character at all, if the practice which it implied had been intrinsically dishonorable or shameful.

On what grounds, then, can a practice be considered as so dishonorable or shameful which is prohibited to no one even under the Gospel; for that dispensation annuls none of the merely civil regulations, which existed previously to its introduction....

"Lastly, I argue as follows, from Hebrews, xiii. v.4: Polygamy is either marriage, fornication or adultery. The Apostle recognizes no fourth state. Reverence for so many patriarchs who were polygamists will, I trust, deter every one from considering it as fornication or adultery, for 'where mongers and adulterers God will judge', whereas the patriarchs were the objects of his especial favor, as he himself witnesses. If, then, polygamy be marriage properly so called, it is also lawful and honorable: according to the same Apostle, 'marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled.'" (Apology For Mohammed And Koran, pp. 157-59)

John Milton has earlier written in the same book (Treatise On Christian Doctrine) as follows:

"In the definition, which I have given (i.e., of marriage) I have not said, in compliance with the common opinion, 'of one man with one woman', lest I should by implication charge the holy patriarchs and pillars of our faith, Abraham, and the others who had more than one wife at the same time, with habitual fornication and adultery, lest I should be forced to exclude from the sanctuary of God as spurious the holy offspring which sprang from them, yea, the whole of the sons of Israel, for whom the sanctuary itself was made. For it is said (Deut. xxiii 2): A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of Jehovah, even to his tenth generation. Either, therefore, polygamy is a true marriage or all children born in that state are spurious; which would include the whole race of Jacob, the twelve holy tribes chosen by God. But as such an assertion would be absurd in the extreme, not to say impious, and as it is the height of injustice, as well as an example of most dangerous tendency in religion; 'to account as sin what is not such in reality', it appears true that, so far from the question respecting the lawfulness of polygamy being trivial, it is of the highest importance that it should be decided." (pp. 231-32)

source: islamicoccasions

Because Satan Paul cannot achieve or sustain an erection, he is impotent (erectile dysfunction) :lotpot:
Last edited by SAM on Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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manfred
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by manfred »

SAM, this is the thread on MOSES and Mohammed....

Paul (and your childish verbal abuse) has nothing to do with this thread. No is this thread about Christianity.

It's about Moses and Mohammed...

I said about Mohammed:
So, unlike Moses, Mohammed did not even follow HIS OWN instructions. The witchcraft he condemns in others, he practises himself. A good leader leads by example. A bully has one rule for himself, and a different one for everybody else. (e.g. How many wives for a Muslim, how many for Mohammed?)
Mohammed condemns witchcraft, but he also practices it. (see references above) One rule for Mohammed, another for everybody else. Muslims may have 4 wives, Mohammed may have many more. One rule for Mohammed, another for everybody else.

Do I need to draw a picture?? Tell us what special priviledges Moses reserved for himself, did he say "Thou shalt not kill" and then go on a murdering rampage, perhaps??
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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SAM
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:SAM, this is the thread on MOSES and Mohammed....

Paul (and your childish verbal abuse) has nothing to do with this thread. No is this thread about Christianity.

It's about Moses and Mohammed...

I said about Mohammed:
So, unlike Moses, Mohammed did not even follow HIS OWN instructions. The witchcraft he condemns in others, he practises himself. A good leader leads by example. A bully has one rule for himself, and a different one for everybody else. (e.g. How many wives for a Muslim, how many for Mohammed?)
Mohammed condemns witchcraft, but he also practices it. (see references above) One rule for Mohammed, another for everybody else. Muslims may have 4 wives, Mohammed may have many more. One rule for Mohammed, another for everybody else.

Do I need to draw a picture?? Tell us what special priviledges Moses reserved for himself, did he say "Thou shalt not kill" and then go on a murdering rampage, perhaps??
You wrote: "How many wives for a Muslim.." mean POLYGAMY.... :*)
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by manfred »

Ok, Sam, my little friend, do it like this... first you read what it says. If you don't understand something, just ask. When you have done those two things, comment.

Did you not notice that I was talking about something completely different? I think we got that bit cleared up now.

Here is my point again, in case you want to say something about it, after you have read it.
manfred wrote:Some more comparisons between Moses and Mohammed…
113.001 “Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn from the mischief of the evil He created.”

The “Lord of the Dawn”, is Lucifer, the morning star.
So the Morning Star, the Prince of Darkness—creates the mischief of evil. Muhammad tells us to take refuge with the devil. This “Lord of the Dawn” creates evil, so it cannot be God. If “Lord of the Dawn” is seen as a reference to Allah, then Allah is the creator of evil, which makes him….?
Moses tells us to accept the guidance of JHWH. The 10 commandments revealed by Moses are guidance in a nutshell: simple, clear and beautiful in its caring.
113.003 “From the mischievous evil of Darkness as it becomes intensely dark, and from the mischief of those who practice the evil of malignant witchcraft and blowing on knots, and from the mischievous evil of the envier when he covets.”

Muhammad is indicting his own behaviour. He did the very things he claimed were demonic:
Bukhari:V7B71N643 “I heard the Prophet saying, ‘If anyone sees something he dislikes, he should blow three times on his left side and its evil will not harm him.’”
Bukhari:V6B61N535 “Whenever the Prophet became ill he used to blow his breath over his body hoping for its blessing.”
Bukhari:V6B61N536 “When the Prophet went to bed he would cup his hands together and blow over them reciting surahs. He would then rub his hands over whatever parts of his body he could reach, starting with his head, face and frontal areas.”

So, unlike Moses, Mohammed did not even follow HIS OWN instructions. The witchcraft he condemns in others, he practises himself. A good leader leads by example. A bully has one rule for himself, and a different one for everybody else. (e.g. How many wives for a Muslim, how many for Mohammed?)
Last edited by manfred on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

SAM wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
SAM wrote: It is a fact and you all afraid of the rapid growth of Islam in the world. Am I right? )
Simple answer? No. :lol:
Your mouth says NO, NO, NO... But your conscience says YES,YES,YES it's true... Am I right? :whistling:
Simple answer? "No". Other simple answer? Urine. As in, urine idiot. :lol: Easy enough?
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

SAM wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote: I always wondered how people can go to the Madrasa and "learn" how to be stupid. :lol: I always thought the two terms were contradictory, but apparently not always. :lol:
I've never been to Madrasa in my whole life. I learned from the divine knowledge of the Truth of Truth's.
And who or what is that "Truth of Truths"? A mole on your butt that talks to you? :lol:
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