Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

His life, his examples and his psychology
frankie
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Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Mohammed was born a pagan and died a pagan, he came from a pagan family who encorporated their particular idol into the family name,e.g.Mohammed’s grandfather was named Abd al-Muttalib a slave of Allah, after the chief god of the Kaaba.

Mohammed’s invention called Islam retains most if not all of his pagan cultural heritage, the worship of Al Lah, the “greatest” pagan idol at the KaabaHajj,Ramadan,the veneration of a stone, are all pre Islamic pagan practices, Muslims perform today.

Because Mohammed was a charlatan, aka false prophet, aka warlord, who used religion as his cover to plunder, rape, murder and enslave, Muslims today are justified to use all these methods to further their faith, to “proclaim Islam over all religion”QS 48.28 just as their pagan god Allah tells them to do.

Islam is nothing more than re packaged pre-Islamic paganism, made to appear an Abrahmic faith which it provable is not.

Muslims are victims of a 7th century scam, which is ongoing to this day.

https://archive.org/stream/KitabAlAsnam/Allat_djvu.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“We have been told that the Apostle of God once
mentioned al-Uzza saying, "I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people."
The Quraysh were wont to circumambulate the Ka'bah and say:

"By Allat and al-'Uzza,
And Manah, the third idol besides.
Verily they are the most exalted females[15]
Whose intercession is to be sought[16]."

These were also called "the Daughters of Allah[17]," and were supposed to intercede before God. When the Apostle of God was sent, God revealed unto him [concerning them] the following:

Have you seen Allat and al-'Uzza, and Manah the third
idol besides? What? Shall ye have male progeny and
God female? This indeed were an unfair partition! These
are mere names: ye and your fathers named them thus:
God hath not sent down any warranty in their regard[18]."

Sahih Bukhari 2:26:710
Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158)


Sahih Bukhari 5:58:172
Narrated 'Aisha: 'Ashura' (i.e. the tenth of Muharram) was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura.


If Mohammed was a true prophet he would have abolished this pagan practice, together with the veneration of a stone, not retained them, as all things pagan are forbidden by YHWH. Stones only have relevance in paganism, they have no relevance in the worship of YHWH,consequently neither Jews nor Christians perform any of Islamic pagan rituals.

Why still perform rituals from a” period of ignorance” if Islam came to abolish them?

https://hajjumrahplanner.com/tawaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

History of Tawaf
During the age of Jahiliyyah, the polytheists would perform Tawaf of the Kaaba in a naked state, citing that it was a custom of their forefathers to do so. They would separate themselves from their clothes and allow them to be trampled by the feet of the people until they were torn. They would do this was because they felt their clothes had become tainted by the sins they had committed, and so they wished to disassociate themselves from those clothes and those sins.
Ibn Kathir V writes the following in his Tafseer about the practice:
The Arabs, with the exception of the Quraysh, used to perform Tawaf naked. They claimed they would not perform Tawaf while wearing the clothes that they had disobeyed Allah in. As for the Quraysh, known as al-Hums, they used to perform Tawaf in their regular clothes. Whoever among the Arabs borrowed a garment from one of al-Hums, he would wear it during Tawaf. And whoever wore a new garment, would discard it and nobody would wear it after him on completion of Tawaf. Those who did not have a new garment, or were not given one by al-Hums, would perform Tawaf while naked. Women would also perform Tawaf while naked, usually at night. This was a practice that the idolaters invented on their own, following only their forefathers in this regard. They falsely claimed that what their forefathers did was in fact following the order and legislation of Allah.


https://hajjumrahplanner.com/days-of-hajj/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Prophet ﷺ then mounted his she-camel and headed to Makkah to perform Tawaf al-Ziyarah, with Usama ibn Zayd I seated behind him. Upon reaching the Kaaba, he performed Tawaf on his camel so that everybody could see him and learn the rituals from him. Jabir I reports:
Allah’s Messenger circumambulated the House on the back of his riding camel on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage and touched the Stone with his stick so that the people could see him, and that he be conspicuous so they would be able to ask him (questions pertaining to religion) as they crowded round him.70
As he was mounted, he performed Istilam of the Hajar al-Aswad with a stick. Abdullah ibn Abbas I narrates:
In his last Hajj, the Prophet ﷺ performed Tawaf of the Kaaba riding a camel and pointed a bent-headed stick towards the Black Stone while uttering Takbir....

Eagle
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

So idolatry, hoarding of wealth, rape, enslavement of nations, genocide, murder, adultery etc negate one's claim to prophethood?

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manfred
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by manfred »

eagle, when someone makes such a claim, does he have to prove it somehow, or at least provide some evidence?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:So idolatry, hoarding of wealth, rape, enslavement of nations, genocide, murder, adultery etc negate one's claim to prophethood?
No Bible prophet,(except for Jesus, if you want to call Him prophet,) is held as a role model for mankind,it is their message of repentance from sin,and to obey YHWH's commands based on love of God and all people regardless of faith,which is the most important, and has never changed.

Mohammed is a role model to Muslims TODAY,what he did and said is Islamically legitimate TODAY,Muslims are justified then to plunder,rape,murder and enslave TODAY in the name of their faith.

Mohammed changed what the true prophets of YHWH revealed,which should not be the case, if he were a prophet in the same line,which btw he claimed to be,this proves Mohammed was a liar,as well as a fake prophet.

No Bible prophet ever went on Hajj,performed Ramadan,worshiped a pagan idol,venerated a stone,and taught others to do the same,because they did not speak in the name of Al Ilah a pagan idol,which is why neither Jews nor Christians perform these same rituals today,precisely because they do not believe in the same God.

You have been scammed by a 7th century fraudster.

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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

frankie wrote:
Eagle wrote:So idolatry, hoarding of wealth, rape, enslavement of nations, genocide, murder, adultery etc negate one's claim to prophethood?
No Bible prophet,(except for Jesus, if you want to call Him prophet,) is held as a role model for mankind,it is their message of repentance from sin,and to obey YHWH's commands based on love of God and all people regardless of faith,which is the most important, and has never changed.

Mohammed is a role model to Muslims TODAY,what he did and said is Islamically legitimate TODAY,Muslims are justified then to plunder,rape,murder and enslave TODAY in the name of their faith.

Mohammed changed what the true prophets of YHWH revealed,which should not be the case, if he were a prophet in the same line,which btw he claimed to be,this proves Mohammed was a liar,as well as a fake prophet.

No Bible prophet ever went on Hajj,performed Ramadan,worshiped a pagan idol,venerated a stone,and taught others to do the same,because they did not speak in the name of Al Ilah a pagan idol,which is why neither Jews nor Christians perform these same rituals today,precisely because they do not believe in the same God.

You have been scammed by a 7th century fraudster.
That's not answering the simple question. Regardless of whether those characters the bible calls prophets repented for their sins and crimes or not (which they didn't and even when one of them did repent, he only did so for a particular misdeed we all know of), did any of them cease being prophets while they were committing their evil deeds?

frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:
frankie wrote:
Eagle wrote:So idolatry, hoarding of wealth, rape, enslavement of nations, genocide, murder, adultery etc negate one's claim to prophethood?
No Bible prophet,(except for Jesus, if you want to call Him prophet,) is held as a role model for mankind,it is their message of repentance from sin,and to obey YHWH's commands based on love of God and all people regardless of faith,which is the most important, and has never changed.

Mohammed is a role model to Muslims TODAY,what he did and said is Islamically legitimate TODAY,Muslims are justified then to plunder,rape,murder and enslave TODAY in the name of their faith.

Mohammed changed what the true prophets of YHWH revealed,which should not be the case, if he were a prophet in the same line,which btw he claimed to be,this proves Mohammed was a liar,as well as a fake prophet.

No Bible prophet ever went on Hajj,performed Ramadan,worshiped a pagan idol,venerated a stone,and taught others to do the same,because they did not speak in the name of Al Ilah a pagan idol,which is why neither Jews nor Christians perform these same rituals today,precisely because they do not believe in the same God.

You have been scammed by a 7th century fraudster.
That's not answering the simple question.
Regardless of whether those characters the bible calls prophets repented for their sins and crimes or not (which they didn't and even when one of them did repent, he only did so for a particular misdeed we all know of), did any of them cease being prophets while they were committing their evil deeds?

Eagle

Your reply changes nothing.
Islamic teachings are based on the ways and example of a fraudster,turning anyone who follows him,into victims of his deceit.

Mohammed claimed to be something which he was not,proved not only by his religious upbringings as a pagan,and remaining as one till death,but by his words and actions,which put Muslims at war with people just because they did not believe in the same god as they did,which no Bible prophet ever did.

Mohammed changed what God had revealed through His prophets,which according to your god Allah, no one can do,but Mohammed did,precisely because he was a false prophet.

Your continual denial of your prophets deception will not change anything,the man you take as a prophet of God was a liar,he did not speak in the name of the God of the Bible,his own words and actions proved it,just as the words and actions of his followers do today when they too become"made victorious with terror" against "unbelievers" in obedience to the same god you believe in.

Your faith is a direct threat to world peace and security,the sooner you and your coreligionists realize this, the better for all humanity.

8:12: “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand."

frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:
frankie wrote:
Eagle wrote:So idolatry, hoarding of wealth, rape, enslavement of nations, genocide, murder, adultery etc negate one's claim to prophethood?
No Bible prophet,(except for Jesus, if you want to call Him prophet,) is held as a role model for mankind,it is their message of repentance from sin,and to obey YHWH's commands based on love of God and all people regardless of faith,which is the most important, and has never changed.

Mohammed is a role model to Muslims TODAY,what he did and said is Islamically legitimate TODAY,Muslims are justified then to plunder,rape,murder and enslave TODAY in the name of their faith.

Mohammed changed what the true prophets of YHWH revealed,which should not be the case, if he were a prophet in the same line,which btw he claimed to be,this proves Mohammed was a liar,as well as a fake prophet.

No Bible prophet ever went on Hajj,performed Ramadan,worshiped a pagan idol,venerated a stone,and taught others to do the same,because they did not speak in the name of Al Ilah a pagan idol,which is why neither Jews nor Christians perform these same rituals today,precisely because they do not believe in the same God.

You have been scammed by a 7th century fraudster.
That's not answering the simple question. Regardless of whether those characters the bible calls prophets repented for their sins and crimes or not (which they didn't and even when one of them did repent, he only did so for a particular misdeed we all know of), did any of them cease being prophets while they were committing their evil deeds?

Eagle
did any of them cease being prophets while they were committing their evil deeds?
Which prophets are you referring to, and what "evil deeds" were they committing?

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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

The same ones you said should not be emulated except in their message of repentence. But it seems even this aspect of their life should be dismissed. If repentence can earn a Christian forgiveness, then it makes Jesus' sacrifice a redundancy

frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle


You pick and choose which part of any thread you want to reply to,using digression as a tactic to avoid addressing valid points put to you,which are tactics of cowards.

You follow a man who claimed to be a prophet of the same God which gave all prophets the same message,which has never changed.

This is proved to be false,as Mohammed was born a pagan and died as one,he followed and continued pagan customs, and he changed what YHWH, the Bible God revealed to His prophets from a message of spiritual combat against sin, to a message of physical combat against people,breaking YHWH's commands in the process.

You have failed to address any of these valid points with your usual obfuscations.

Your own sources prove beyond all doubt, what you are following is not from the same God it claims to speak for,i.e the Bible God,whose laws diametrically oppose those of Allah's proving they cannot be the same God.


Changing the subject without responding to these blatant truths just serves to prove you either have no answers,or fear of what your god Allah will do to you if you do answer, preventing you from discussing further,and by doing so give further evidence that your are driven more by fear(of Allah),than by love,which is the driving force of the Bible God.

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Centaur
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Centaur »

Even ex-Muslim atheists understands Allah is not the biblical God and therefore Islam is not an Abrahamic religion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG0h5cR_HnA

Islam is not monotheism either as Allah was just one of the 360 gods of pagan Ka aba.An analogy to Mohamed's claim of Allah being one God would be an ancient Greek who says Zeus is the only one God after destroying all other idols Except Zeus and then go on to claim that Christians and Jews worships Zeus who has no partners.worshiping one idol from among all other idols is not monotheism.


i
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

frankie wrote:Eagle


You pick and choose which part of any thread you want to reply to,using digression as a tactic to avoid addressing valid points put to you,which are tactics of cowards.

You follow a man who claimed to be a prophet of the same God which gave all prophets the same message,which has never changed.
Abraham and Joseph followed the same divine law as Moses and JEsus?
frankie wrote:This is proved to be false,as Mohammed was born a pagan and died as one,he followed and continued pagan customs, and he changed what YHWH, the Bible God revealed to His prophets from a message of spiritual combat against sin, to a message of physical combat against people,breaking YHWH's commands in the process.
A man that goes to war, committing bloodshed and genocide, even building pagan worship sites cannot be a prophet of YHWH?

You have failed to address any of these valid points with your usual obfuscations.
frankie wrote:Your own sources prove beyond all doubt, what you are following is not from the same God it claims to speak for,i.e the Bible God,whose laws diametrically oppose those of Allah's proving they cannot be the same God.
Was camel meat forbidden to Joseph?
frankie wrote:Changing the subject without responding to these blatant truths just serves to prove you either have no answers,or fear of what your god Allah will do to you if you do answer, preventing you from discussing further,and by doing so give further evidence that your are driven more by fear(of Allah),than by love,which is the driving force of the Bible God.
The driving force that will animate the mythical messianic figure that will come at the end of times to restore justice and righteousness Isa11:2-5, the same driving force that will be carved into the hearts of the Jews at the end of times, and that will make them walk the straight path forever Jer32:38-40 is love or fear of YHWH?

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Centaur
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Centaur »

The only small problem here is God of Muslims is Allah one of the 360 idols of Mekkah which no christian or jew ever heard of let alone worshiped.
For a christian or jew to take Allah as the god is nothing but breach of first commandment.Mosaic law was very clear on this
Deuteronomy 13 1-5
If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams comes in any other gods name, he should be put to death.
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frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:
frankie wrote:Eagle


You pick and choose which part of any thread you want to reply to,using digression as a tactic to avoid addressing valid points put to you,which are tactics of cowards.

You follow a man who claimed to be a prophet of the same God which gave all prophets the same message,which has never changed.
Abraham and Joseph followed the same divine law as Moses and JEsus?
frankie wrote:This is proved to be false,as Mohammed was born a pagan and died as one,he followed and continued pagan customs, and he changed what YHWH, the Bible God revealed to His prophets from a message of spiritual combat against sin, to a message of physical combat against people,breaking YHWH's commands in the process.
A man that goes to war, committing bloodshed and genocide, even building pagan worship sites cannot be a prophet of YHWH?

You have failed to address any of these valid points with your usual obfuscations.
frankie wrote:Your own sources prove beyond all doubt, what you are following is not from the same God it claims to speak for,i.e the Bible God,whose laws diametrically oppose those of Allah's proving they cannot be the same God.
Was camel meat forbidden to Joseph?
frankie wrote:Changing the subject without responding to these blatant truths just serves to prove you either have no answers,or fear of what your god Allah will do to you if you do answer, preventing you from discussing further,and by doing so give further evidence that your are driven more by fear(of Allah),than by love,which is the driving force of the Bible God.
The driving force that will animate the mythical messianic figure that will come at the end of times to restore justice and righteousness Isa11:2-5, the same driving force that will be carved into the hearts of the Jews at the end of times, and that will make them walk the straight path forever Jer32:38-40 is love or fear of YHWH?

Eagle

Try answering why you consider putting your salvation into the hands of a provable false prophet,who was born into a pagan family, and died practicing the very same rituals he was born into.

Eagle
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

A man born into pagan parents, and a man that fills the land with pagan worship sites cannot be a prophet of YHWH?

frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:A man born into pagan parents, and a man that fills the land with pagan worship sites cannot be a prophet of YHWH?
Correct he can't,proving Mohammed was a false prophet.

But that is not the only reason why Mohammed is a false prophet.

Mohammed/Allahs rules diametrically oppose the rules of the very God Mohammed/Allah claimed to represent,proving Mohammed/Allah was a liar too.

Eagle
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

What religion were Abraham's parents?

What is the particularity of the biblical character called Solomon?

frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:What religion were Abraham's parents?

What is the particularity of the biblical character called Solomon?
Eagle

Abraham's parents are role models to no one.

Abraham was led to worship the God of the Bible NOT Allah,and he is a role model to no one.

Solomon was a king not a prophet,and is a role model to no one.

Mohammed claimed to be a prophet in line with all previous prophets,but proved he could not have been, he spoke in the name of a different god,who gave him diametrically opposing teachings to that of the Bible God,and he is a role model for Muslims today.

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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

Role models or not, it is irrelevant to the contention. If a man claiming to be prophet is born to pagan parents, does that negate his claim? If yes than what about Abraham

Of course Solomon was a prophet, accurding to the biblical standards. Just like David, his divinely inspired writings are scattered throughout the HB. Bible loving Christians like you read and pray using his words and you claim "is a role model to no one"? God appears and communicates several times with Solomon including 1Kings3:5,6:11-13,9:1. So he supposedly built pagan worship sites. What does it make of his prophetic status

frankie
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by frankie »

Eagle wrote:Role models or not, it is irrelevant to the contention. If a man claiming to be prophet is born to pagan parents, does that negate his claim? If yes than what about Abraham

Of course Solomon was a prophet, accurding to the biblical standards. Just like David, his divinely inspired writings are scattered throughout the HB. Bible loving Christians like you read and pray using his words and you claim "is a role model to no one"? God appears and communicates several times with Solomon including 1Kings3:5,6:11-13,9:1. So he supposedly built pagan worship sites. What does it make of his prophetic status

Eagle

King Solomon is not a prophet,and no one is taught to follow his example.

Mohammed IS an Islamic role model for Muslims, who lied when he claimed to be a prophet in line with all Bible prophets,his ways and example lead people away from the message of the true prophets of God,and the one opposes YHWH according to the Bible,is Satan.

You have yet to address why Muslims today still perform the same rituals the pre Islamic pagans did,which neither Jews nor Christians have done or do today.

Why still perform rituals from a "period of ignorance" if Islam is the truth?

Eagle
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Re: Mohammed,Born And Died A Pagan

Post by Eagle »

So pagan parents is no more a dismissing criteria?

Solomon is a biblical prophet for the reasons mentioned and he is a model for every Christ loving bible reader. Did he cease being a prophet while building pagan worship sites?

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