Page 2 of 2

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:34 pm
by Takeiteasynow
Some of the Syrians shown on T.V including their president look quite white enough.So one can safely assume that during the Slavic slave trade,white genes did indeed mix a lot along with those of the white Roman converts in Arabs even though those with their original features are also seen in that part of the world.


Indeed, the Crimean Khanate exported hundreds of thousands Slavic slaves to the Ottoman empire and Egypt over the centuries and keeping a slave population of approximately 120.000 on the Krim itself. In the last two centuries the Ottomans rulers moved many Caucasian or adjacent groups to Syria.

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:48 pm
by Nosuperstition
Takeiteasynow wrote:
Some of the Syrians shown on T.V including their president look quite white enough.So one can safely assume that during the Slavic slave trade,white genes did indeed mix a lot along with those of the white Roman converts in Arabs even though those with their original features are also seen in that part of the world.


Indeed, the Crimean Khanate exported hundreds of thousands Slavic slaves to the Ottoman empire and Egypt over the centuries and keeping a slave population of approximately 120.000 on the Krim itself. In the last two centuries the Ottomans rulers moved many Caucasian or adjacent groups to Syria.


What about the residual white Roman converts to Islam after conquest by Arabs?Rome had ruled over Syria for many centuries.Did Rome colonise the area just like what it did to the Jews of Judea after defeating and expelling them for their Bar Kochba rebellion?Romans are said to have won many a time in the direct arms combat with the Germanics possibly because of better training due to better crop yielding atmosphere.Also Shias in Syria might have been due to influence of the later Islamised Persia which exerted its influence as far as Saudi Arabia itself.Persians also look relatively white.Do the Shia Alawaites also originally hail from Persia?

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:02 pm
by Takeiteasynow
What about the residual white Roman converts to Islam after conquest by Arabs?Rome had ruled over Syria for many centuries.Did Rome colonise the area just like what it did to the Jews of Judea after defeating and expelling them for their Bar Kochba rebellion


I wouldn't know. There are way too many possibilities: migration streams, incoming settlers from all kind of directions......

Do the Shia Alawaites also originally hail from Persia?

Not likely. Their religion adapted over the centuries but is most likely pre-Islamic, originating in the highlands of Anatolia.

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:53 pm
by Fernando
Takeiteasynow wrote:Not likely. Their religion adapted over the centuries but is most likely pre-Islamic, originating in the highlands of Anatolia.
No wonder there's a civil war in Syria:
Alawites identify as Shiite Muslims.[citation needed] Like other Muslims, the Qur'an is their primary holy book, but they don't understand in its literal sense. Alawite theology and rituals break from mainstream Islam in several remarkable ways. For one, the Alawites reject sharia. Alawite women eschew the hijab. The Alawites also drink wine as Ali's transubstantiated essence in their rituals;[17] while other Muslims abstain from alcohol, Alawites are encouraged to drink socially in moderation. Finally, they also believe in reincarnation. Though not for women.[18] Alawites have historically kept their beliefs secret from outsiders and non-initiated Alawites, so rumours about them have arisen. Arabic accounts of their beliefs tend to be partisan (either positively or negatively).[19] However, since the early 2000s, Western scholarship on the Alawite religion has made significant advances.[20] At the core of Alawite belief is a divine triad, comprising three aspects of the one God. These aspects, or emanations, appear cyclically in human form throughout history.
and
The Sunni Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini issued a fatwa recognizing them as part of the Muslim community in the interest of Arab nationalism.[113][114]

However, Athari Sunni scholars such as the Syrian historian Ibn Kathir have categorised Alawites as kuffar (infidels) and mushrikeen (polytheists), in their writings;[45][115][116] with Ibn Taymiyya arguably being the most virulent anti-Alawite in his fatwas[117] accusing them of aiding the Crusader and Mongol enemies of the Muslims.[118] Other Sunni scholars, such as Al-Ghazali, also approved of violence against Alawites, whom he considered as non-Muslims.[119] Benjamin Disraeli, in his novel Tancred, also expressed the view that Alawites are not Muslims.[120]

Historically, Twelver Shia scholars (such as Shaykh Tusi) didn't consider Alawites as Shia Muslims while condemning their heretical beliefs.[121] Ibn Taymiyyah also pointed out that Alawites were not Shi'ites.[122]

According to Matti Moosa,

The Christian elements in the Nusayri religion are unmistakable. They include the concept of trinity; the celebration of Christmas, the consecration of the Qurbana, that is, the sacrament of the flesh and blood which Christ offered to his disciples, and, most important, the celebration of the Quddas (a lengthy prayer proclaiming the divine attributes of Ali and the personification of all the biblical patriarchs from Adam to Simon Peter, founder of the Church, who is seen, paradoxically, as the embodiment of true Islam).[123]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:49 pm
by Takeiteasynow
Indeed. And let's not forget the role of the French colonial government: the former Alawite state was merged into a new Syria in 1936:

On 3 December 1936 (becoming effective in 1937), the Alawite state was incorporated into Syrian Republic as a concession by the French to the Nationalist Bloc (the ruling party of the semi-autonomous Syrian government)


And of course the "Nationalist Bloc" was composed of Sunni Arabs: 3 December 1936 is the day a troubled state was born.

Image

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:53 pm
by Nosuperstition
Fernando wrote:
Takeiteasynow wrote:Not likely. Their religion adapted over the centuries but is most likely pre-Islamic, originating in the highlands of Anatolia.
No wonder there's a civil war in Syria:
Alawites identify as Shiite Muslims.[citation needed] Like other Muslims, the Qur'an is their primary holy book, but they don't understand in its literal sense. Alawite theology and rituals break from mainstream Islam in several remarkable ways. For one, the Alawites reject sharia. Alawite women eschew the hijab. The Alawites also drink wine as Ali's transubstantiated essence in their rituals;[17] while other Muslims abstain from alcohol, Alawites are encouraged to drink socially in moderation. Finally, they also believe in reincarnation. Though not for women.[18] Alawites have historically kept their beliefs secret from outsiders and non-initiated Alawites, so rumours about them have arisen. Arabic accounts of their beliefs tend to be partisan (either positively or negatively).[19] However, since the early 2000s, Western scholarship on the Alawite religion has made significant advances.[20] At the core of Alawite belief is a divine triad, comprising three aspects of the one God. These aspects, or emanations, appear cyclically in human form throughout history.
and
The Sunni Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini issued a fatwa recognizing them as part of the Muslim community in the interest of Arab nationalism.[113][114]

However, Athari Sunni scholars such as the Syrian historian Ibn Kathir have categorised Alawites as kuffar (infidels) and mushrikeen (polytheists), in their writings;[45][115][116] with Ibn Taymiyya arguably being the most virulent anti-Alawite in his fatwas[117] accusing them of aiding the Crusader and Mongol enemies of the Muslims.[118] Other Sunni scholars, such as Al-Ghazali, also approved of violence against Alawites, whom he considered as non-Muslims.[119] Benjamin Disraeli, in his novel Tancred, also expressed the view that Alawites are not Muslims.[120]

Historically, Twelver Shia scholars (such as Shaykh Tusi) didn't consider Alawites as Shia Muslims while condemning their heretical beliefs.[121] Ibn Taymiyyah also pointed out that Alawites were not Shi'ites.[122]

According to Matti Moosa,

The Christian elements in the Nusayri religion are unmistakable. They include the concept of trinity; the celebration of Christmas, the consecration of the Qurbana, that is, the sacrament of the flesh and blood which Christ offered to his disciples, and, most important, the celebration of the Quddas (a lengthy prayer proclaiming the divine attributes of Ali and the personification of all the biblical patriarchs from Adam to Simon Peter, founder of the Church, who is seen, paradoxically, as the embodiment of true Islam).[123]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites


In the articles of the main forum ,Ali or one of his article authors had once remarked that heresies were more so tolerated under Islam than in medieval Christendom where dogmas were rigidly imposed on the subject populace.For example reincarnation had no place when the concept of a single birth with a final judgement day was imposed.I too had for sometime assumed that Islam was monolith.But then the presence of Yazidis who believe in reincarnation as well as a final judgement day shattered my dogmas.Also another group of people in Syria named the Druz also supposedly believe in reincarnation.They were at the fore front of the war of liberation for Syria from the French colonial rule and for that reason entire hamlets belonging to them were supposedly razed to ground with fire power of the fighter jets. Now are the people of this group white or near white in their appearance?Now do the Druz come under Sunni categorisation or the Shia categorisation?Right now with whom do their loyalties rest i.e in the present day civil war scenario with whom have they allied?

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:03 pm
by Fernando
There's perhaps one aspect in which Islam IS monolithic: hatred of non-Muslims. They must be removed first. Deviants can be sorted out later - unless as a side-line while waiting for the main chance.

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:25 pm
by Nosuperstition
Now no one answered my question regarding the racial antecedents of the Druze people.Are they of fairer complexion than the Arabs just as is the case with the Yazidis?

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:05 pm
by manfred
Druze people are on the whole, Arabs, mostly from Lebanon and Israel, Syria and Jordan. They are not really ETHNICALLY different from people in the Lebanon generally. They have a religion which is broadly based on Islam, but most Muslims regard them as kafir.

A druze has 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes, a nose and so on like the rest of us. There are no human "races", and skin colour is simply an adaptation to climate.

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:10 pm
by Nosuperstition
A druze has 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes, a nose and so on like the rest of us. There are no human "races", and skin colour is simply an adaptation to climate.


A person born to the colored or black couple even if raised right from childhood near the poles will remain colored or black.A person born to blonde white couple even if raised right from childhood in climates near the equator will remain white.So are you absolutely sure that no such thing as race exists in human beings?

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:26 pm
by Nosuperstition
idesigner1 wrote:Just one pair of homosapien can't populate whole world with numerous tribes and four major races.

According to theory of evolution pairs of breeding population result in natural selection. There must be 100 s or more pairs selected from ape like mammals which evolved into modern looking homosapiens. Many lines became extinct many interbreeded and we had modern looking homosapiens. They went out of Africa some hundred thousand years ago to became Neanderthal cromagnin etc. and other lines . Three main races of human kind like nigroid Caucasoids and mongoloids came later.


http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=18177&p=237691&hilit=races#p237691

Due to the relatively good colored Aryans invading North India first in the form of polytheists and then in the form of monotheists,upper castes over there are called Savarna castes or good colored castes.Where looks ceased to be different within the same society as in case of East Asian countries due to prevailing religion's preaching against caste,caste ceased to exist and therefore in those countries land reforms took place on a massive scale as opposed to what happened in India with the advent of modernity.

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:04 pm
by manfred
Nosuperstition wrote:
A druze has 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes, a nose and so on like the rest of us. There are no human "races", and skin colour is simply an adaptation to climate.


A person born to the colored or black couple even if raised right from childhood near the poles will remain colored or black.A person born to blonde white couple even if raised right from childhood in climates near the equator will remain white.So are you absolutely sure that no such thing as race exists in human beings?


Humans are the LEAST genetically varied animals on our planet. In biological terms, we are all ONE "race". You find much more of difference that trivial variations in skin colour in other animals. Cows in Holland are generally black and white, and cows in Alpine countries brown and white.They are the same animal. There are "races" of cows, but they are a lot more varied than that.

Surely you understand that a genetic variation is not changed if you change your environment? People have darker skins if their ancestors, for many thousands years lived in a place where having darker skin provided an advantage: protection against the strong sun. So people with this advantage had a better chance to live a longer life and to have more offspring.

In colder regions a slightly lighter skin offered a different advantage: it helps the production of vitamin D even when there is not much Ultraviolet light, the thing the body needs for that. Lighter skin absorbs much more than darker skin but the trade off is an increased risk of sun burn.

So traits like that get selected over many generation, and obviously do not change by moving house.

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:32 pm
by Nosuperstition
So am I correct when I say that skin color can vary depending upon the climate,however it would take thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years for such a change to manifest itself completely.

Re: Queen Elisabeth II as desendant of Muhammad

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:55 pm
by Fernando
manfred wrote:A druze has 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes, a nose and so on like the rest of us. There are no human "races", and skin colour is simply an adaptation to climate.
Try telling that to SAM. He swears by Allah's shade card!