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Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:07 pm
by manfred
Wait do you know where I live?


Well, I know from where you post... I assume that is where you live. When you mentioned the power-cuts I looked up your IP, because I got nosey. Sorry.

You mean a new thread?


Yes, I think that would be better. If the topics are clearly defined, it is less likely they get lost on the way...

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:56 am
by muslimforever2012
OK let's make a new thread

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:56 pm
by manfred
You haven't yet... is everything OK?

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:14 pm
by Hombre
muslimforever2012 wrote:Sorry for not replying. I was busy.

He raped Safiyya after killing her father, husband and brother
See end of page 44 https://archive.org/stream/originsofisl ... 4/mode/2up
(see also Ibn ishaq)


Nope....

When Safiya came to the Holy Prophet (pbuh), he said to her; ‘Among the Jews your father did not stop in his enmity towards me until Allah destroyed him.’ She said: ‘O Allah’s Messenger! Indeed Allah says in His book, ‘No one will take anyone else’s burden’. So the Holy Prophet (PBUH) said to her:‘Make your choice, if you will chose Islam I’ll select you for myself and if you chose Judaism, I’ll set you free and send you to your people.’ She said; ‘O Allah’s Messenger indeed I longed for Islam and testified for you even before you gave me this invitation when I came to you. I have no guardian among the Jews, neither father nor brother and I prefer Islam over disbelief. Allah and His Messenger are dear to me then freedom and to return to my people.” (Ibn Saad 8/123)
You must be out of your freaking mind to believe that, a young woman falls in love with a man who just just murdered her father & husband

As one who "longed for Islam", she could have left her husband and her Tribe, and run to Muhammad's arms long before that, and save the lives of her father & husband.

This is it - this type of nonsense distortion of history, and twisting of fact and common sense which bring Muslims so much indignation & ridicule.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:23 am
by muslimforever2012
manfred wrote:You haven't yet... is everything OK?


I thought you would do so.

Hombre wrote:
muslimforever2012 wrote:Sorry for not replying. I was busy.

He raped Safiyya after killing her father, husband and brother
See end of page 44 https://archive.org/stream/originsofisl ... 4/mode/2up
(see also Ibn ishaq)


Nope....

When Safiya came to the Holy Prophet (pbuh), he said to her; ‘Among the Jews your father did not stop in his enmity towards me until Allah destroyed him.’ She said: ‘O Allah’s Messenger! Indeed Allah says in His book, ‘No one will take anyone else’s burden’. So the Holy Prophet (PBUH) said to her:‘Make your choice, if you will chose Islam I’ll select you for myself and if you chose Judaism, I’ll set you free and send you to your people.’ She said; ‘O Allah’s Messenger indeed I longed for Islam and testified for you even before you gave me this invitation when I came to you. I have no guardian among the Jews, neither father nor brother and I prefer Islam over disbelief. Allah and His Messenger are dear to me then freedom and to return to my people.” (Ibn Saad 8/123)
You must be out of your freaking mind to believe that, a young woman falls in love with a man who just just murdered her father & husband

As one who "longed for Islam", she could have left her husband and her Tribe, and run to Muhammad's arms long before that, and save the lives of her father & husband.

This is it - this type of nonsense distortion of history, and twisting of fact and common sense which bring Muslims so much indignation & ridicule.


What a typical Islamophobic response. If you bring Islamic sources to support your claims, I don't say "NONONO ITS FALSE". But if I do so?

Please prove that this narration is false.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:03 pm
by manfred
Please prove that this narration is false.


Hi again, btw the I did open the new topic you asked for:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17866

Now, as to "proving" a narration to be false, this is quite a tall order... at best what we can (both you and me) do is to assess the likelihood of an account of events. How?

Are there any other, independent accounts? What did the person telling the story want to achieve? How likely is it?

OK, here are the issues: first, it is a hasan tradition not a sahih one. There are also other accounts, but they vary in the details from this one, and taking them all together you get a somewhat different picture.. Second, to keenly want to marry the man who had just killed your husband and father, within a very short time of that, and knowingly, seems a very unlikely sequence of events, and not really credible.. Also there is the rule of the waiting period (iddah). This account suggests it was not followed. In fact, Sahih Bukhari's account is quite different.

Both of these things suggest a rather different reality... Safiya "consented" to Mohammed's advances to save her own life. Mohammed's promise to "send her to her people" if she chooses to remain a Jewess is an empty one, as both she and Mohammed knew there was nobody left to take care of her. If she wanted to live she had no other choice.

Also, if you look at the account Bukhari gives, that episode is entirely absent. There, in fact Safiya is an example of how a particularly lucky slave girl is treated. Her beauty saved her from being the sex slave of one of Mohammed's men, instead Mohammed took her for himself.

In that version of the story, which in Muslim tradition is seen as more authentic, and classed sahih, Safiiya has next to no influence on the fate that befalls her. She is "swapped" for other slaves, and then it says quite laconically, she is freed from her slave status and Mohammed married her. There is no mention of her even giving any consent to marriage, and no mention is made to her willingness to accept Islam in this account. In any case, a consent in these circumstances could hardly be called a free one, and hence would be invalid: in Bukhari, if she was given a choice at all, it was between being a (sex) slave and a wife.

Narrated Abdul Aziz:
Anas said, "When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there (early in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet. He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, ‘Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.’ He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, ‘Muhammad (has come).’ (Some of our companions added, ‘With his army.’) We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, ‘O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.’ The Prophet said, ‘Go and take any slave girl.’ He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Allah's Apostle! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.’ So the Prophet said, ‘Bring him along with her.’ So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, ‘Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.’" Anas added: "The Prophet then manumitted her and married her."

Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet. So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, ‘Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.’ He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-Sawaq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walima (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367)


It is also important to bear in mind that Ibn Sa'ad, even though he wrote slightly earlier than Bukhari, did so for quite a different reason to Bukhari. He called his work "the major classes", meaning Mohammed (a class of his own), and his various kinds of early companions and helpers. His book clearly is meant to instruct and edify, and lead people to Islam. It is much less rigorous in its methods, although it would be unfair to call it all fantasy. And, as your passage shows perfectly, he is trying to present questionable incidents from the life of Mohammed in ways to make them less problematic.

Bukhari's intentions were somewhat different. He was most of all concerned to collect and preserve reliable information about Mohammed's actions and sayings, with sources, before they disappear. He was much more concerned with preservation, and less with "spin" or "image".

The more active role Safiya described by Ibn Saad is not something that sits easily with other sources about Mohammed. Remember Mohammed's "her silence is her consent"?

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:58 pm
by Fernando
manfred wrote:
Second, to keenly want to marry the man who had just killed your husband and father, within a very short time of that, and knowingly, seems a very unlikely sequence of events, and not really credible.
Mohammed's promise to "send her to her people" if she chooses to remain a Jewess is an empty one,
Promise? Sounds more like a threat to me: to join her husband and father in the grave.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:44 pm
by muslimforever2012
it is a hasan tradition not a sahih one.


Hasan doesn't mean false. It is accepted.

Also there is the rule of the waiting period (iddah). This account suggests it was not followed. In fact, Sahih Bukhari's account is quite different.


It wasn't:

Following Hadith needs a careful reading;

عن أبي سعيد الخدري ورفعه أنه قال في سبايا أوطاس لا توطأ حامل حتى تضع ولا غير ذات حمل حتى تحيض حيضة

Abu Sa’id Khudri narrated the following statement from Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) regarding the captives of Awtas: “There must be no intercourse with a pregnant woman till she gives birth, or with one who is not pregnant till she has had one menstrual period.” (Abu Dawud, Hadith 2157. Albani classified it as Sahih)

This Hadith lays down a rule that a man is not allowed to have intimate relations with a captive woman till she is clean from menses. This is to avoid any confusion in the lineage.

Now considering the fact that Sayyidah Safiya (RA) was actually a captive woman who was then freed and married to by the Holy Prophet (pbuh), in the light of the above Hadith the Prophet (PBUH) was to wait for her being clean from a menstrual course before consummating the marriage and this is exactly what he did. We read in Sahih Bukhari:

عَنْ أَنَسِ ...فَاصْطَفَاهَا النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِنَفْسِهِ فَخَرَجَ بِهَا حَتَّى بَلَغْنَا سَدَّ الصَّهْبَاءِ حَلَّتْ فَبَنَى بِهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ

Narrated Anas bin Malik: …The Prophet (pbuh) selected her for himself, and set out with her, and when we reached a place called Sadd-as-Sahba’, Safiya became clean from her menses then Allah's Messenger married her. (Bukhari, Hadith 3889)


Other than ibn Sa'ad, there is a Sahih Hadith that refutes the this theory of rape:

Ibn Umar narrates: In the eye of Sayyidah Safiya was a scar. Holy Prophet (pbuh) said to her, ‘What is this scar in your eye?’ She said, ‘I mentioned before my husband that I saw a moon falling into my lap in a dream so he slapped me and said; ‘Do you long for the King of Yathrib [i.e. Holy Prophet pbuh]’ She said: ‘There was none more hateful to me then Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) as he killed my father and husband. [But] the Prophet (pbuh) explained, ‘O Safiya your father instigated the Arabs against me and did so and so…’ He kept on explaining until that feeling (of hatred) vanished from me.’
(Tabarani Kabeer, Hadith 19668. Albani classified it as Sahih in his Silsala Sahiha H. 2793)


You may still argue about this, or we can go to the other thread and debate about pedophilia.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:54 pm
by frankie
muslimforever2012

You may still argue about this, or we can go to the other thread and debate about pedophilia.


The thread is ready, and waiting for your comments.

Please give us your thoughts on Mohammed's "marriage "to nine year old Aisha.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:05 pm
by manfred
OK, muslimforever, let's have a look at that one too:

Both hadith, even though from different sources, do not suggest Mohammed observed the iddah in this case. One simply suggests the marriage happened almost straight away, after she had become the "chosen one", the other suggests a slight delay, and the marriage was consumed after a short journey. The reason for the delay was obvious, she was having her period at the time. Mohammed did not wait for her to GET her period (or one month), he simply was waiting for her to END her period, so that he could have sex.

Let's also add how Tabari reports this "marriage":
Ibn ‘Umar [al-Waqidi] – Kathir b. Zayd – al-Walid b. Rabah – Abu Hurayrah: While the Prophet was lying with Safiyyah Abu Ayyub stayed the night at his door. When he saw the Prophet in the morning he said "God is the Greatest." He had a sword with him; he said to the Prophet, "O Messenger of God, this young woman had just been married, and you killed her father, her brother and her husband, so I did not trust her (not to harm) you." The Prophet laughed and said "Good". al-Tabari, Volume XXXIX (39), p. 185


And there we also read that just before the "marriage" we was led passed the beheaded bodies of her husband and family. She was given no time to grieve. Not even Mohammed's followers thought at the time she had suddenly found Islam...

Perhaps it is also worth pointing out that "safiya" was not her name as such, it means, more or less, "his share", a "name" she acquired after Mohammed had purchased her for 7 slaves.

It was not a "protection marriage", the sources are all clear that Mohammed merely took an interest due to her beauty.

Would you say this is something you expect a man of God to do?

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:49 am
by muslimforever2012
Ibn ‘Umar [al-Waqidi] – Kathir b. Zayd – al-Walid b. Rabah – Abu Hurayrah: While the Prophet was lying with Safiyyah Abu Ayyub stayed the night at his door. When he saw the Prophet in the morning he said "God is the Greatest." He had a sword with him; he said to the Prophet, "O Messenger of God, this young woman had just been married, and you killed her father, her brother and her husband, so I did not trust her (not to harm) you." The Prophet laughed and said "Good". al-Tabari, Volume XXXIX (39), p. 185


Most Hadiths which are used to insult Muhammad are narrated by Waqidi the liar. Don't you see the pattern?

Still, he did not force Safiyyah.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:59 pm
by Fernando
Interesting that you should mention Waqidi. I hadn't heard of him but Wikipedia says
Al-Waqidi's works are known through his scribe and student, Ibn Sa'd, who also worked under Al-Mamun and was a proponent of the Muʿtazila doctrine of the created Quran

Authorities seem to be divided on whether his hadiths are reliable or not. Could it be that his detractors are those who prefer the idea of an un-created Koran?

Let's not beat about the bush
In contemporary jihadism, the epithet, or supposed allegations of being a Mu'tazilite, have been used between rival groups as a means of denouncing their credibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%CA%BFtazila

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:30 pm
by manfred
Most Hadiths which are used to insult Muhammad are narrated by Waqidi the liar. Don't you see the pattern?

Still, he did not force Safiyyah.


All his distractors basically call him a liar, but do not provide any evidence. He is as much a source as any. I am not saying everything reported is 100% accurate, but I cannot understand why a Muslim would want to insult Mohammed.

As Fernando says, there is a 50/50 split on this source, some respect him, others do not. Bukhari did not like him, and he claims that he fabricated hadith. I like to see the fabricated hadith and the evidence to show that they are fake.


Al-Tabari mentions three other sources for this story.

Zayd ibn Harithah is said to be a source of this story, the companion of Mohammed mentioned in the Qur'an. Bilal ibn Rabah also is telling this, a companion of Mohammed, and the third, Abu Hurayrah, is generally well respected and believed by Muslims. and features as a reference for many sahih hadith.

As to "force".... well, there are different kinds of force. Sure, there was no knife on her throat when she submitted to sex with Mohammed. But there was no need to. She was put into a position where her choice was the only one feasible for survival, so she was not free to choose.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:21 pm
by Centaur
Ibn ‘Umar [al-Waqidi] – Kathir b. Zayd – al-Walid b. Rabah – Abu Hurayrah: While the Prophet was lying with Safiyyah Abu Ayyub stayed the night at his door. When he saw the Prophet in the morning he said "God is the Greatest." He had a sword with him; he said to the Prophet, "O Messenger of God, this young woman had just been married, and you killed her father, her brother and her husband, so I did not trust her (not to harm) you." The Prophet laughed and said "Good". al-Tabari, Volume XXXIX (39), p. 185

OK, that makes sense, the guy was wondering the prophet of Allah just murdered the women's father husband and brother and now raping her, so I will keep guard with sword on in case she tries to harm him and prophet cries out for help.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:10 pm
by Hombre
muslimforever2012 wrote:Most Hadiths which are used to insult Muhammad are narrated by Waqidi the liar. Don't you see the pattern?

Still, he did not force Safiyyah.
He didn't need, not had to force her. Her only choice? - let Muhammad rape her, or die.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:06 pm
by panis
muslimforever2012 wrote:Sorry for not replying. I was busy.

He raped Safiyya after killing her father, husband and brother
See end of page 44 https://archive.org/stream/originsofisl ... 4/mode/2up
(see also Ibn ishaq)


Nope....

When Safiya came to the Holy Prophet (pbuh), he said to her; ‘Among the Jews your father did not stop in his enmity towards me until Allah destroyed him.’ She said: ‘O Allah’s Messenger! Indeed Allah says in His book, ‘No one will take anyone else’s burden’. So the Holy Prophet (PBUH) said to her:‘Make your choice, if you will chose Islam I’ll select you for myself and if you chose Judaism, I’ll set you free and send you to your people.’ She said; ‘O Allah’s Messenger indeed I longed for Islam and testified for you even before you gave me this invitation when I came to you. I have no guardian among the Jews, neither father nor brother and I prefer Islam over disbelief. Allah and His Messenger are dear to me then freedom and to return to my people.” (Ibn Saad 8/123)


Does a rapist ask his victim if she wants to go home?

Islam is nothing more than Mohammed's invention, because he has no proof that he has seen or heard Jibril
wealth, powerand sex it's a fact in texts ... and control over people’s lives... it's a fact in the life of all muslim from birth to death


:lol:

He was not the only one:

Sahih Muslim

Book 30, Number 5713:
Sa'd reported that on the Day of Uhud I saw on the right side of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and on his left side two persons dressed in white clothes and whom I did not see before nor after that, and they were Gabriel and Michael (Allah be pleased with both of them).


Show it


OK

He said:

"I challenge you to go through my site and if you find one sentence
where I have shown hatred against Muslims I will remove this site. "

....

I love Muslims. Most of my relatives are Muslims. Most of my friends are Muslims. There is Muslim blood in my veins. I attack the absurd teachings of Islam but not those who believe in them. I consider those who believe in Islam honest and good people many of whom are misguided. Many Muslims agree with me that Islam needs to be reformed and this is my goal.



Source: http://web.archive.org/web/200605082004 ... maryam.htm


So let us see....

Yes I have proof and have proven that all the Muslims are evil to the degree that they follow Muhammad.

What message of peace you are spreading. YOu are fooling no one here. Isam does not have any message of peace. If indeed you spread the messag of peace that is not from Islam. I doubt you do because it is unbecomming for a Muslims to actually spread any love an unity among mankind. All you can do is spread hate through deciet.

Be specific. Tell me what you have done for peace and give addreass so we can verify. You are only dangerous creatures and nothing more. Filthy to the core. Evil in your hearts. Disgusting is your thoughts of hate. Satanic is your ethos. Barbaric is your conduct. You must be rounded up and sent to where you came from. Leave Islam or leave our country. This must become the slogan in all the Western countries.

It will be. As time passes and you will add to your terrorism, people including the stupid leftists will wake up and kick you out of their countries.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20110225213 ... p?p=415523


2.

“It is not an insult to say Muslims are not humans"

Source: http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50913.htm


3.

"Muslims are liars by nature.

Source: http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50913.htm


There are other things but I think that's enough. He says he loves Muslims and he will remove his site if he insults them and he says they are honest, and yet he calls them liars and insults them.

Al Muslim book 19 number 4292
Ibn 'Aun reported:
I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops


Sahih al-Bukhari 5079—We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Messenger and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated?" He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry a woman temporarily by giving her even a garment and then he recited to us: "O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you." (5.87)
Sahih Muslim 3248—Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that Jabir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet and during the time of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar.

Rape is unconsensual sex which is what happened when Mohammed and his "raiding troops" captured women as booty, who were then divided out, with Mohammed claiming the best for himself.

DO you really think these "right hand pocessions" would have willingly had sex with the men who had just murdered their husbands?



:nono1:

'A'ishah describes her saying, "She was a pleasant woman. No one saw her except he became captivated by her. While the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was when suddenly Juwayriyah (RA) entered asking him concerning her ransom agreement (with Thabit). By Allah, as soon as I saw her, I disliked her entering the place of Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) for I knew that he would see what I saw in her.

She then started addressing Muhammad, ' O ' Messenger of Allah! I am Juwayriyah bint al-Harith the leader of his people. You are not oblivious of what had happened to me. So I fell in the share of Thabit ibn Qays and I agreed with him to ransom myself with nine Ooqiyah. So help me to free myself.' Muhammad replied, 'Do you want what is better than that?' She said, 'What is it?' Muhammad said, 'I will pay on your behalf and then marry you.' She said, 'Yes, O ' Messenger of Allah.' Muhammad then said, 'I have done that.",



So ISIS is very much islamic and therefore I used that as an example.


:lotpot:

1.

ISIS kills women (Source: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2718826/m ... -in-mosul/)

Muhammad forbade the killing of women:

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 258.

Narrated By Ibn 'Umar : During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.


2.

ISIS calls people who don't believe in their ideology kafir.

Muhammad forbade that:

Abu Zarr reported that the Holy Prophet said: No man accuses another man of being a sinner, or of being a kafir, but it reflects back on him if the other is not as he called him.'' (Bukhari, Book of Ethics; Book 78, ch. 44)


ISIS is still Islamic, huh?

Sorry for not replying. I am very busy. I will reply next week.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:07 pm
by panis
Hombre wrote:
muslimforever2012 wrote:Most Hadiths which are used to insult Muhammad are narrated by Waqidi the liar. Don't you see the pattern?

Still, he did not force Safiyyah.
He didn't need, not had to force her. Her only choice? - let Muhammad rape her, or die.

or become sexual slave

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:10 pm
by panis
muslimforever2012 wrote:
Ibn ‘Umar [al-Waqidi] – Kathir b. Zayd – al-Walid b. Rabah – Abu Hurayrah: While the Prophet was lying with Safiyyah Abu Ayyub stayed the night at his door. When he saw the Prophet in the morning he said "God is the Greatest." He had a sword with him; he said to the Prophet, "O Messenger of God, this young woman had just been married, and you killed her father, her brother and her husband, so I did not trust her (not to harm) you." The Prophet laughed and said "Good". al-Tabari, Volume XXXIX (39), p. 185


Most Hadiths which are used to insult Muhammad are narrated by Waqidi the liar. Don't you see the pattern?

Still, he did not force Safiyyah.

No woman can agree to marry someone who killed her father and husband.
See also Ibn ishaq about the killing of her father and husband.

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:43 am
by Garudaman
even her father & husband are evil guys?

Re: Ali Sina refuted

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:51 am
by muslimforever2012
No woman can agree to marry someone who killed her father and husband.
See also Ibn ishaq about the killing of her father and husband.


I gave you an Islamic source, which is hasan, but you reject it. I don't understand why you accept da'eef of maudu Hadiths that support your view but not hasan ones that contradict yours.

He didn't need, not had to force her. Her only choice? - let Muhammad rape her, or die.


It's useless teaching Islamophobes Hadith terminology.

even her father & husband are evil guys?


Yep:

Ibn Umar narrates: In the eye of Sayyidah Safiya was a scar. Holy Prophet (pbuh) said to her, ‘What is this scar in your eye?’ She said, ‘I mentioned before my husband that I saw a moon falling into my lap in a dream so he slapped me and said; ‘Do you long for the King of Yathrib [i.e. Holy Prophet pbuh]’ She said: ‘There was none more hateful to me then Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) as he killed my father and husband. [But] the Prophet (pbuh) explained, ‘O Safiya your father instigated the Arabs against me and did so and so…’ He kept on explaining until that feeling (of hatred) vanished from me.’
(Tabarani Kabeer, Hadith 19668. Albani classified it as Sahih in his Silsala Sahiha H. 2793)