Page 2 of 2

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:47 pm
by sum
Hello abc123

You admit that Muhammad lied but there is no reprimand in the Koran. Did Muhammad sin by lying? If there was no reprimand then it would appear that he did not contradict the Koran and so lying is permitted and Muhammad was only choosing to follow Allah`s guidance.

Do you think that Allah permits lying as Muhammad was not reprimanded for lying?

sum

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:14 pm
by panis
sum wrote: You make statements of Muhammad lying but give no references.

Hello sum

Muhammad never saw nor heard Jibril, he is a liar

Muhammad said that Adam, Abraham , Moses, Jesus .... were muslims : it's a lie, he has no proof

Muhammad said that Ismael is the ancestor of the arabs : it's a lie , he has no proof

The story of Nakhla raid is a lie : Muhammad says that it was a fact-finding operation. But the spying is against an army, not against a commercial caravan
Muhammad sends a commando of 8/9 men against a commercial caravan of 4 men

He did not respect the hudaybiya treaty
"Her two brothers Umara and Walid sons of Uqba came and asked the apostle to return her to them in accordance with the agreement between him and Quraysh at Hudaybiyya, but he would not. God forbade it"

etc...

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:10 am
by abc123
sum wrote:Hello abc123

From your post it appears that you do admit that lying is permitted although you would not lie. Is this correct?

sum

You only need to bring up the verse concern so we can argue about it. Yours above is mere statement. Please try to make this discussion to a conclusion.

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:06 am
by sum
Hello abc123

Are you a Koran-only muslim?

sum

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:02 pm
by panis
sum wrote:
Do you think that Allah permits lying as Muhammad was not reprimanded for lying?

sum

Muhammad can't reprimand himself, he is the main author of the Qur'an
Allah is a puppet (In the sense that Allah says what Muhammad decides) copied on other religions and created by Muhammad as divinity
Just read the tafseer of Qur'an

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:59 pm
by abc123
sum wrote:Hello abc123

Are you a Koran-only muslim?

sum

I am.

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:23 am
by iffo
abc123 wrote:
sum wrote:Hello abc123

Are you a Koran-only muslim?

sum

I am.



You seem educated mature person. You think the power that created this universe and billions of galaxies can write a book like quran ? Which has nothing but repetitive stupidity. I think you can right a book better than that. Don't you think? I think it's an insult to associate Quran to any god.

Your god does not even know stars are not missiles? And that semen does not come from between back bones and ribs.

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:54 pm
by panis
iffo wrote: I think you can right a book better than that. Don't you think?

Yes, he cans.
A book full of contradiction and errors of all kinds: spelling, grammar, coherence, calculation (fractions on inheritance), and so on.

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:41 pm
by manfred
iffo wrote: I think you can right a book better than that.


Is it "I think" or "I thing" "Eye think" or maybe even"Aye thing", and how about "you" or "yew" and then there is write, right, rite and wright....

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:46 pm
by Fernando
manfred wrote:
iffo wrote: I think you can right a book better than that.


Is it "I think" or "I thing" "Eye think" or maybe even"Aye thing", and how about "you" or "yew" and then there is write, right, rite and wright....
Well Manfred, the Koran does need righting! A right good righting, at that! By a wordwright, too. Oh, and probably some of the rites need writing out.

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:09 pm
by katlike
"If I take an oath to do something and later on I find something else better than the first one, then I do what is better and make expiation for my oath." (Bukhari 78:618)
Sounds like lying to me.

Re: Did Muhammad ever lie?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:40 pm
by manfred
katlike wrote:"If I take an oath to do something and later on I find something else better than the first one, then I do what is better and make expiation for my oath." (Bukhari 78:618)
Sounds like lying to me.



It all depends what is meant what is meant by "better".

If "better" is merely something more to my advantage or more to my liking, then a promise merely means "unless I change my mind".

If better means "it includes ALL of the the previous commitments, plus this additional one" then perhaps it would be a feasible idea.
But Mohammed did not say that. "better than the first one." he said. Better in whose judgement? Better for whom? So I can change any deal I make merely by saying "this one is better"?

In reality to Mohammed seems to have been the understanding this this "better" merely mean more to his own advantage, as his actions show.

This is quite nonsensical: suppose I wrote to my mobile phone provider straight after I signed a contract, saying "guys, I found a better deal. I pay nothing for ever and I get unlimited free calls and data for life. Because I think that is better you have to agree and give me that deal."

Good old Mo seems to be quite clueless about how to approach ethics questions.