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Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:59 pm
by sum
Muhammad was a very odd man -

Sunaan Abu Dawud, Book 1, Number 0006:
Narrated Zayd ibn Arqam:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said:
Do not look to the private parts of the body nor the waste matter passed from the body.

This is very unsound medical advice. Failing to observe the motions that are passed might well overlook their colour. Red could indicate blood. Black could indicate blood lost from the upper alimentary canal and very pale/white could indicate carcinoma of head of pancreas.

If Muhammad`s advice was to be for all time then he was dangerously wrong with his advice and which therefore calls into question the soundness of his other guidance.

I am not sure whether his guidance also applies to urine.

sum

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:52 pm
by manfred
What I find really quite incredible that Mohammed had no problems or scruples about giving advice on issues he knew very little about and which he could have realised that one day people would understand much much better than he did.

One such area is medicine. He made a whole host of daft assertions related to medicine, seemingly unaware that unlike claims about invisible angels his comments on medical matter can be researched and found to be wrong.

I mean we have the fly in the water thing, the camel urine, the comment on why some children resemble their mothers and other their fathers, the origin or sperm and quite a few more...

To me that suggests either a man of quite limited intelligence or of incredible pride, or even both.

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:38 pm
by Fernando
sum wrote:I am not sure whether his guidance also applies to urine.
It's waste matter. Unless is comes from camels, of course, in which case it's medicine.

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:04 pm
by Hombre
sum.
You are absolutely right about Muhammad's prognosis on health matters. After all, through mental illness and sheer conning of others, he elevated himself to level of god - the perfect man who knows it all. Steer people to behave in patter of behaviour which under normal conditions they would never do - such us kill their own fathers in cold blood.

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:25 am
by sum
Hello Fernando

I think that you are correct when claiming that urine should be included.

8. He should be careful to remove all impurity after answering the call of nature because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) warned against being careless in cleaning oneself after urinating. “Most of the punishment of the grave will be because of urine.” (Ibn Majah) Ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with father and son) reported that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed by two graves and said, “They are being punished, but they are not being punished for any major sin. One of them used not to protect himself (i.e., keep himself clean from) his urine, and the other used to walk about spreading malicious gossip.” (Al-Bukhari)

It appears that old age in the muslim world is going to be a very trying time. We are all reminded that nothing happens but Allah wills it. Is Allah responsible for incontinence and "dribbles" with the associated difficulty in keeping clean all the time?

sum

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:31 am
by Fernando
manfred wrote:What I find really quite incredible that Mohammed had no problems or scruples about giving advice on issues he knew very little about and which he could have realised that one day people would understand much much better than he did.

One such area is medicine. He made a whole host of daft assertions related to medicine, seemingly unaware that unlike claims about invisible angels his comments on medical matter can be researched and found to be wrong.

I mean we have the fly in the water thing, the camel urine, the comment on why some children resemble their mothers and other their fathers, the origin or sperm and quite a few more...

To me that suggests either a man of quite limited intelligence or of incredible pride, or even both.
To be fair, I suspect all those examples come from the hadiths. Whether due to failing memories, fantasies by the writers, embodiment of yet more pre-Islamic Arab beliefs or false-flag operations, if it doesn't discredit Mo it certainly invalidates the hadiths: and with them a massive chunk of Islamic belief and practice.

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:33 am
by Fernando
sum wrote:It appears that old age in the muslim world is going to be a very trying time. We are all reminded that nothing happens but Allah wills it. Is Allah responsible for incontinence and "dribbles" with the associated difficulty in keeping clean all the time?
Yes, especially if we have Mo's OCD!

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:35 am
by sum
Hello Hombre

Bukhari 9.127
“The Prophet said, I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror so the treasures of the earth were given to me.’”

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 71, Number 662
Narrated Abdullah bin Umar:
Two men came from the East and addressed the people who wondered at their eloquent speeches On that Allah's Apostle said. "Some eloquent speech is as effective as magic."

Muhammad was a con man who was a master of mob psychology. He was obviously a man who was very persuasive and today would have been a very successful second hand car salesman.

sum

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:40 am
by manfred
Re Bukhari 9.127 ...

if Mohammed really said that he is more stupid than I thought...

there are two possibilities Mohammed is simply wrong and "allah" did not give him any such gift. Alternatively, if a good and just God were to give anyone any gift, it would be in the expectation that it is being used for goodness and justice. In effect he is saying that his "Allah" is a terrorist and and accessory to theft and murder.

He is making his deity responsible for his behaviour....

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:49 pm
by Fernando
sum wrote:Muhammad was a con man who was a master of mob psychology. He was obviously a man who was very persuasive and today would have been a very successful second hand car salesman.
Or a promising candidate for President Of The United States Of America. For either party!

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:37 pm
by sum
I could not resist posting this -

Do not sit more than needed.

Do not spit, blow nose, look hither and thither, touch the body unnecessarily nor look towards the sky but relieve oneself with the eyes downcast in modesty.

After relieving oneself it is essential to perform Istinjaa (washing with water) of the anus and/or genitals with the left hand and water. The precise mode of performing Istinjaa has also been defined by religious leaders:

"At the beginning of Istinja, it is preferable to use toilet paper three times.

If Istinjaa is being done on a hot day, then the person should start from the front to the back and then from the back to the front and the third time from the front to the back.

If Istinjaa is being done on a cold day, then he should begin from the back to the front. After wiping, he should wash his hand first and then he should cleanse himself with two fingers and three fingers if necessary together with ‘pouring’ water.

When using the two fingers, one should keep the middle finger in front and the ring and index finger behind it. After beginning with the fingers in this position, he should bring the ring finger forward and rub with the middle finger and ring finger. Thereafter, he will wipe with the index finger, if necessary. He should continue until all the impurity and smell is removed.

The left over water after Istinjaa is paak only if there is no impurity in it." (Mufti Ebrahim Desai) And further: "To wash the orifice with water, even though no filth is stuck to it after relieving oneself, is desirable. If the filth is sticking to it (less than a Dirham or equal to it) then the use of water is 'Sunnah' (optional) and in the case the filth stuck to the orifice is more than a Dirham then its washing with the water is 'Fard'. (obligatory)" Islamic Academy

Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.

Life is so complicated for muslims. Muhammad has passed his OCD onto the muslims.

sum

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:53 pm
by manfred
The left over water after Istinjaa is paak only if there is no impurity in it.


Seriously? So in theory it would be perfectly OK to make "ablutions" with water used to wash your bum or to drink it.

So it would also be OK to drink directly from a toilet?

The whole quote left me quite amazed... Do you have a link for that?

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:09 am
by M85
sum wrote:...

"At the beginning of Istinja, it is preferable to use toilet paper three times.

If Istinjaa is being done on a hot day, then the person should start from the front to the back ...

If Istinjaa is being done on a cold day, then he should begin from the back to the front. ...


Strange the difference here between a warm\cold day, front to back vs. back to front. Good grief. Somehow, someway this must be a very important detail, one that should not be overlooked. :lotpot:

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:29 am
by sum
My quote came from the following -

Sunaan Abu Dawud, Book 1, Number 0006:
Narrated Zayd ibn Arqam:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: These privies are frequented by the jinns and devils. So when anyone amongst you goes there, he should say: "I seek refuge in Allah from male and female devils."

One should enter the toilet with the left foot and leave with the right foot.

It is not permissible to enter the toilet whilst carrying or wearing anything bearing the name of Allah, such as the Quran, or any book with the name of Allah in it, or jewelry such as bracelets or necklaces engraved with the name of Allah.

One should remain silent whilst on the toilet. Talking, answering greetings or greeting others is forbidden

One should not face nor turn your back on Mecca whilst relieving yourself. One should sit at 90 degrees

It is considered forbidden to relieve oneself whilst standing up, lying down or if you are completely nude.

Do not look to the private parts of the body nor the waste matter passed from the body.

Do not sit more than needed.

Do not spit, blow nose, look hither and thither, touch the body unnecessarily nor look towards the sky but relieve oneself with the eyes downcast in modesty.

After relieving oneself it is essential to perform Istinjaa (washing with water) of the anus and/or genitals with the left hand and water. The precise mode of performing Istinjaa has also been defined by religious leaders: "At the beginning of Istinja, it is preferable to use toilet paper three times. If Istinjaa is being done on a hot day, then the person should start from the front to the back and then from the back to the front and the third time from the front to the back. If Istinjaa is being done on a cold day, then he should begin from the back to the front. After wiping, he should wash his hand first and then he should cleanse himself with two fingers and three fingers if necessary together with ‘pouring’ water. When using the two fingers, one should keep the middle finger in front and the ring and index finger behind it. After beginning with the fingers in this position, he should bring the ring finger forward and rub with the middle finger and ring finger. Thereafter, he will wipe with the index finger, if necessary. He should continue until all the impurity and smell is removed. The left over water after Istinjaa is paak only if there is no impurity in it." (Mufti Ebrahim Desai) And further: "To wash the orifice with water, even though no filth is stuck to it after relieving oneself, is desirable. If the filth is sticking to it (less than a Dirham or equal to it) then the use of water is 'Sunnah' (optional) and in the case the filth stuck to the orifice is more than a Dirham then its washing with the water is 'Fard'. (obligatory)" Islamic Academy

Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.

sum

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:20 am
by pr126
The apostle of Allah (pbuh) had a severe case of OCD.
Among other things.

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:37 am
by Fernando
M85 wrote:Strange the difference here between a warm\cold day, front to back vs. back to front. Good grief. Somehow, someway this must be a very important detail, one that should not be overlooked. :lotpot:
Temperature can be very important. Do you remember the old rude song "In Mobile"? Part of it goes...(on reflection, I've put it behind a spoiler)...
Spoiler! :
In the bogs there is no paper
So they wait until it's vapour
Then they light it with a taper
In Mobile.

In Arabia, things could get decidedly explosive on a hot day. :bggrn:
EDIT
This alternative version explains what happens on a cold day. Very useful in Arabia where there's little wood, btw.http://www.horntip.com/html/songs_sorted_by_name/with_music/i/in_mobile/in_mobile.htm

Re: Muhammad gave wrong advice.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:22 am
by sum
Below is what muslims are taught and so be careful when and how you cut your finger nails -

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.p ... s-it-haram

Clipping the nails means to remove the excess of the nail of the finger with a scissor, knife etc.It is offensive to remove nails with the teeth, as it creates leprosy and insanity. Also it is offensive to remove nails during the state of major ritual impurity (janaba).

sum