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Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of Isla

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:02 am
by pr126
Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of Islam
Muhammad’s encounter in the Cave of Hira is exceptional in Islam, because it is in this experience that Muhammad first received revelation from Allah, through the intermediary of the Archangel Gabriel. This encounter, therefore, is understood as the pivotal human event of Allah communicating the Islamic message to all mankind through the agency of Muhammad. It is the origin of Islam, and as such it is unambiguously and unquestionably, the singular most important event in human history.

From the perspective of comparative folklore or religion, however, Muhammad’s encounter in the Cave of Hira is understood as a legend, which is to say that it is commonly understood by scholars outside strict Islamic communities as being a type of make-believe, a type of magical fantasy. It is understood as a fantasy imbued with powerful communal meaning, for within the narrative’s community, conviction of the ontological truth of this narrative’s central premise often defines whether a person either is, or is not, a “believer.” The apostasy laws in 23 Muslim nations — 8 of which demand execution for people who leave Islam — are a testament to how this narrative is magnified in intensity by volatile religious emotion.[i] Thus, amongst most of the narrative’s “believers,” Muhammad’s encounter in the Cave of Hira is experienced as being a magical story that is absolutely beyond question, a premise backed up in 8 countries by the death penalty.

It is a conundrum, then, for a skeptic or scholar to attempt a discussion between members within and without the Islamic community about Muhammad’s encounter in the Cave of Hira when many modern Islamic governments murder people who express disbelief of the communal fantasy.


Read on...

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:33 pm
by Fernando
So Mohammed was raped on a magic carpet!

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:15 pm
by Hombre
I invite anyone to walk the Arabian deserts in heat of 45c (113F) and experience hallucination and mirage of "floating camels" in distance.

As for those "two angles" wearing white, who came to the cave and "cleansed" Muhammad heart. In reality, it is likely were 2 Sheppards, who also were escaping the heat, and wanted to rest. They found Muhammad (in schizophrenic state) murmuring loud noises like camel, and most likely woke him up to stop the noise.

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:35 pm
by manfred
OK, if we look at the various sources and want to explain what happened without the need to cite an angel or whatever, it seems it may well have been something like this:

Mohammed was young and horny, and he had a wife much older than him. So... given that Muhammed in pretty much everything else made sure his own interests come first, the following seems an entirely logical explanation:

Mohammed went to some cave outside town to meet women and girls for some "fun"... To his wife he went on "meditations".

One day a relative of one of his dates got wind of the whole thing, and he went to the cave where Mohammed was eagerly waiting for his date. So Mohammed got a very good beating.

Shocked and scared, he ran home. Now... the dilemma was, what could he tell his wife? He probably had cuts and bruises to to explain too... So he decided he was going to stick with the silly "meditation" story, only now a "vision" came and beat him up, forced his to recite things. (The real "recitation" was probably "Say you leave my sister alone!!!" or something of that kind.)

Whether Khadija actually believed anything she was told is doubtful, but we do know she was highly intelligent and successful at business. She also for a long time looked at ways to get control of the Kaaba and the associated income from her rich relatives.

So, in a flash of evil genius, she realised this "visionary", this "prophet" of an otherwise good for nothing husband could still earn his keep, or more even. He could be the key to getting the Kaaba, and maybe other untold riches. We are told that she and Mohammed originally say "Islam" as a source of wealth.


So, a plan was hatched, "revelations" produced from various sources, and Khadija in more ways than one became indeed the "mother of of the faithful". Sadly not all of the Meccans (if actually originally even happened in Mecca and not in Petra...) were convinced of Mohammed the "prophet", and fact he was mostly laughed at. It was not until Khadija died and Mohammed's lust and greed was no longer monitored by his wife, that the approach changed. Islam was to be enforced by violence. This brought unexpected success, and I wonder what Khadija would have made of all that, if she had seen how both Islam and Mohammed had changed...

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:48 pm
by Fernando
Are there any references to suggest that Islamic misogyny only started after Khadijah was safely out of the way? Or was it already endemic in Arabia anyway? (Which would have made Khadijah an exception.)

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:53 pm
by Hombre
As far as I can tell, the whole enchilada stated when Khadija was still alive (his running home from Mt. Hira in panic) ans told his wife he is sick and wanted to commit suicide..

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:04 am
by manfred
Yes, that is when it started, the story goes... WHY he was running away exactly is a matter for speculation, and I would suggest that my version is infinitely more likely to be a fair account of events than "Gabriel" and all that ...

As to the misogyny, it is fair to say that MOST of it started after Khadija's death... Mohammed over-compensated for his previous toy-boy position but pushing women more and more into subordinate roles...

The "cover up" command is a very odd response to people complaining about a peeping Tom in the public toilet area. The rules for inheritance and the rules for evidence are other steps to demean women. While the "uncleanliness" of a woman during menstruation has been borrowed from Jewish custom, it has been somewhat twisted into a "defect in religion" women are supposed to have...

I think Mohammed's misogyny is a sort of revenge response to his role as Khadija's husband, and we know that at least some of his "rules" about women were met with a degree of opposition. When Mohammed declared that a woman "invalidates" a prayer if she passes in front of a praying man, in the same way as a dog or a donkey, this was certainly quite offensive to Aisha who expressed out loud what most women would have thought: "You liked us to dogs and asses".

Because of the fundamentalist nature of Islam, it is not possible for Muslims even after so many years to accept what really is rather obvious: Mohammed's "teachings" or examples about women do certainly not make a good example for anyone to follow.

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:15 am
by frankie
The claim that Mohammed was a prophet was originated by his wife's uncle,Waraqa,who, when he heard that the name of the angel that allegedly visited Mohammed was Gabriel, jumped to a conclusion that it must be the same angel that he had read about in his study of Christian scriptures, which in turn started the whole sorry mess that led to this fraudulent faith called Islam.

Mohammed himself believed he had been visited by a demon, who traumatised him to such an extent, he wanted to commit suicide, it was only on the basis of him saying that this being told him its name was Gabriel, that gave a ring of authenticity to his "vision" to someone who had seen this name written down previously in religious scripture.

Muslims to this day take this version of events at face value, they do not feel the need to question because they are told that questions lead to loss of faith, and so they don't.

But those who can question without fear, do so, which leads to the truth of the matter.

Those who know even the basics of the Bible can ascertain instantly that the story of Mohammed's encounter with his "angel" has a very large question mark over it, which exposes its fraudulent nature.

Islam from its very beginnings, had the mark of fraud written all over it, which has been overlooked, or not spoken of for centuries, that is until now, when at last those who can read, can see for themselves the lies that this faith is built upon.

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:01 pm
by Hombre
There are two indicators which could shed light on Wraghah's declaring Muhammad as prophet.

Unlike modern literature, where facial expressions, hand gestures, or tone of voice, etc. also added to describe a story in more vivid colors - as well as intent. Ancient literature we read only mere words, "he / she said this or that - period". It leaves to reader's own imagination to paint a picture of his / her own preference.

That is the case with Waragha. By saying "he is a prophet", we don't know, nor be sure that, whether he was sarcastic, or serious. "oh, make him feel good about himself - give him a candy (prophet)". Was he serious or dismissive one?

By the fact, Waragha himself, never accepted Islam, demonstrates the latter option. Most likely he was dismissive of Muhammad.

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:14 pm
by manfred
This may also explain his mysterious death just days later...

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:43 pm
by Ibn Rushd
Even Western scholarship on women and Islam, acknowledges that Khadijah was an exception, a figurehead in some Once-upon-a-time, Edenic, Golden Age, which no longer exists. All at the same time as they parrot how burqas are so nice. :musilmah:

I was reading something in the last few years, that Islam needs the testimony of unbelievers to make it true. The fewer unbelievers, the less true Islam is; the more unbelievers, the truer it is. This was one of the reasons conversion to Islam was discouraged in early parts, although later on it seems to have been forgotten.

After Hardship Cometh Ease: this book is like 2 books. The price seems to have gone sky high since last I looked, so you should order it through your library (some have e-book copies).

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:43 pm
by Fernando
Ibn Rushd wrote:Even Western scholarship on women and Islam, acknowledges that Khadijah was an exception, a figurehead in some Once-upon-a-time, Edenic, Golden Age, which no longer exists.
You've raised a sneaky thought in my mind, Ibn Rushd! A figurehead? Or a figment? If there's a whole book's worth of argument available that Mo, as portrayed, may well not have existed, what price Khadijah?

Re: Rape in the Cave of Hira: Speculations on the Origin of

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:00 pm
by ExmuslimBoy
He was in that cave, banging women/men as he was randy. After khadija was out the way, he started marrying women, and would have sex with a different wife each night. He was sure randy, sex every night different pu-ssy, and he was allowed more than the 4 wives limit.