Aisha's Maturity

His life, his examples and his psychology
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pr126
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by pr126 »

For 14 centuries nobody knew, or cared enough about Aisha's age when Muhammad married her.
Suddenly, in the last few decades Muslims are ashamed?
Why? Do Muslims care what infidels think?
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skynightblaze
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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pert wrote:I've heard the argument that the Bukhari Hadith has been tampered with and is not legititmate and that Asmaa's age proves that Aisha was a teenager when she was married. What are your views?
Sahih ahadith are considered as the most reliable next to quran by muslims and the arguments based on Asma's age in relation to Aisha come from the scriptures that are considered less reliable than Sahih ahadith. Given this background,the argument of muslims becomes something like this--- Less reliable scriptures (which talk about Asma's age) contradict the most reliable scriptures i.e. sahih ahadith and therefore most reliable scriptures must be wrong and less reliable scriptures must be right. Can you see how ridiculous this argument is? When you consider some source (X) as less reliable than source (Y), how can you use X to disprove Y?
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by SAM »

skynightblaze wrote:
pert wrote:I've heard the argument that the Bukhari Hadith has been tampered with and is not legititmate and that Asmaa's age proves that Aisha was a teenager when she was married. What are your views?
Sahih ahadith are considered as the most reliable next to quran by muslims and the arguments based on Asma's age in relation to Aisha come from the scriptures that are considered less reliable than Sahih ahadith. Given this background,the argument of muslims becomes something like this--- Less reliable scriptures (which talk about Asma's age) contradict the most reliable scriptures i.e. sahih ahadith and therefore most reliable scriptures must be wrong and less reliable scriptures must be right. Can you see how ridiculous this argument is? When you consider some source (X) as less reliable than source (Y), how can you use X to disprove Y?
Shia never claim any Hadith book is 1000% authentic. And also Sunnis do not say that every word in ahadith collected by Bukhari, Muslim, and others are 1000% correct.
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manfred
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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Shia never claim any Hadith book is 1000% authentic. And also Sunnis do not say that every word in ahadith collected by Bukhari, Muslim, and others are 1000% correct.
This is true but irrelevant in this context. The question is only what age Aisha was when Mohammed "entered" her. On this we have a fair number of sources all considered to be reliable by Muslims, whereas the Asma story is considered NOT entirely reliable. That is how Muslims see it. That is why Muslims allow child brides.

You are again trying to derail the topic by turning a specific question into a nebulously vague one. We are talking about at what age Aisha was subjected to sexual intercourse, and not about general concepts regarding hadith collections.

It would not accepted amongst Muslims to try to refute a sahih hadith with a lesser source, not in any other subject, so we must apply the same rule here.

So, what is you case for Aisha being older? Or are you honest enough to say she was as old as she says herself?
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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by SAM »

Debates and arguments are stale, obsolete and outdated.

Qur’an 65:4
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtop ... ad#p227252" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prophet Mohammad Marriage to Aisha
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtop ... d&start=60" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paedophilia in Islam (revisited)
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtop ... d&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Debunking the slander against the Prophet's Marriage
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtop ... &start=260" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And many more that have already refuted these arguments?
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
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manfred
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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Well, anyone going to the links you quoted would hardly conclude that any Muslim has managed to "refute" anything. I know this has been discussed many times, but that does not mean people should not discuss it if they wish.

LOL, the first person you say "refuted" this is "islam_rules". Did you read what he said?

I asked you a a simple question, you you do a tap dance. How old was Aisha when Mohammed "entered" here? What is the accurate, Muslim answer to that question, using sahih hadith?

This is yet another well known tactic you use to avoid answering a question. Post a pile of links you have not even checked, and claim they make a complete case and vindicate all claims against Islam, keeping your fingers crossed hoping nobody actually lookes at the links.



As you say you discussed it many times you should surely be able to provide the answer to that.
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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Well, anyone going to the links you quoted would hardly conclude that any Muslim has managed to "refute" anything. I know this has been discussed many times, but that does not mean people should not discuss it if they wish.

LOL, the first person you say "refuted" this is "islam_rules". Did you read what he said?

I asked you a a simple question, you you do a tap dance. How old was Aisha when Mohammed "entered" here? What is the accurate, Muslim answer to that question, using sahih hadith?

This is yet another well known tactic you use to avoid answering a question. Post a pile of links you have not even checked, and claim they make a complete case and vindicate all claims against Islam, keeping your fingers crossed hoping nobody actually lookes at the links.



As you say you discussed it many times you should surely be able to provide the answer to that.
Who cares...

Muhammad (saw) and His Marriage with Aisha (ra) by Al-Fatihah.

I wrote..."Is Aisha has ever complained that her pussy can not cope with his penis".. :lol:

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtop ... ed#p223352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by manfred »

Well, SAM, it seems you are not very familiar with issues around sexual abuse. Very few abuse victims complain, and if they do, it is usually long after the event, decades later, when the perpetrator has died or at least is unable to do any more harm.

Are you surprised that the little girl did not complain? Who could she complain to? She understood perfectly well that whatever Mohammed wanted he would get. She even saw how her father was scared of him.

Even after Mohammed died, suggesting that Mohammed did anything improper would have cost her her head. In Shia tradition, we are told she was in fact the one who killed Mohammed in the end, which to me sounds a lot more believable than the cock and bull story about some Jewish woman who had a poison which worked months later.

Google "sexual abuse" and read some of the stories of the victims. You will quickly learn why it is that Aisha tried to keep her mouth firmly shut on that topic. But, like many abuse victims, every now and then a little hint comes out showing something of the turmoil and anger inside her. Remember the report when she said, to Mohammed's face, Allah "hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires"? That was brave of her, and she was lucky Mohammed either did not understand the sarcasm or chose to overlook it.

So it is really quite ignorant and grossly offensive to take a lack of complaint of a little girl scared to death as consent to sex.
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skynightblaze
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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SAM wrote:Shia never claim any Hadith book is 1000% authentic. And also Sunnis do not say that every word in ahadith collected by Bukhari, Muslim, and others are 1000% correct.
Yes same logic applies to sources mentioning age of Asma in relation to Aisha.So tell me how are you sure that these sources are correct when they mention Asma as 10 years older than Aisha? If you want to argue then you can make a case in the following way :

Sahih ahadith are more authentic in general but they got this fact wrong which the less reliable sources got it right. However to make such a case you need to provide objective evidence that would indeed prove less reliable sources to be right regarding age of Aisha or else Bukhari and sahih muslim get preference over less reliable sources.I don't see any objective evidence from your side. All I see is hypocrisy. These same sources which you are using to make your case are otherwise unreliable to you.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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skynightblaze
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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Sam wrote:I wrote..."Is Aisha has ever complained that her pussy can not cope with his penis".. :lol:
Well many times, the victim does not complain . However this does not mean no abuse has taken place. E.g Hindus used to practice Sati i.e. the bride had to jump in fire after her husband's death and these women had taken it for granted that this was the right practice and hence hardly complained. Does that make sati a good custom or does it mean that no abuse took place? Ofcourse not! Lack of education is the root cause as to why these women did not complain. Ask any educated hindu girl if she would do the same. She would probably file a police complaint if someone forced her to go for Sati. Similarly, lack of education(medical education) on the part of the society at the time of Muhammad might have made Aisha to NOT complain about abuse. She might have taken it for granted that nothing wrong was happening. Medical science has proven that children below certain age are not mentally or physically mature to have intercourse or even marriage. It only means Aisha and others around her were ignorant about the abuse. Also, even if she has realized that she was abused , as Manfred said, she was in no position to complain. She might lose her head.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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skynightblaze wrote:
SAM wrote:Shia never claim any Hadith book is 1000% authentic. And also Sunnis do not say that every word in ahadith collected by Bukhari, Muslim, and others are 1000% correct.
Yes same logic applies to sources mentioning age of Asma in relation to Aisha.So tell me how are you sure that these sources are correct when they mention Asma as 10 years older than Aisha? If you want to argue then you can make a case in the following way :
Go to ask Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood, a leading British Muslim scholar or other Islamic scholars. http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/madamayeshah/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sahih ahadith are more authentic in general but they got this fact wrong which the less reliable sources got it right. However to make such a case you need to provide objective evidence that would indeed prove less reliable sources to be right regarding age of Aisha or else Bukhari and sahih muslim get preference over less reliable sources.I don't see any objective evidence from your side. All I see is hypocrisy. These same sources which you are using to make your case are otherwise unreliable to you.
The primary and main source of Islam.. Quran NOT hadith.
Authentic hadiths can be distorted, manipulated, modified, altered and exaggerated so in accordance with the doctrines and beliefs of Sunni, Shia, Ahmadiyah, Qadiani, Naqsabandiyah etc and there is also a tradition Isra'iliyat. Based on this, then most of the hadith above can not be used as evidence.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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skynightblaze wrote:
Sam wrote:I wrote..."Is Aisha has ever complained that her pussy can not cope with his penis".. :lol:
Well many times, the victim does not complain . However this does not mean no abuse has taken place. E.g Hindus used to practice Sati i.e. the bride had to jump in fire after her husband's death and these women had taken it for granted that this was the right practice and hence hardly complained. Does that make sati a good custom or does it mean that no abuse took place? Ofcourse not! Lack of education is the root cause as to why these women did not complain. Ask any educated hindu girl if she would do the same. She would probably file a police complaint if someone forced her to go for Sati. Similarly, lack of education(medical education) on the part of the society at the time of Muhammad might have made Aisha to NOT complain about abuse. She might have taken it for granted that nothing wrong was happening. Medical science has proven that children below certain age are not mentally or physically mature to have intercourse or even marriage. It only means Aisha and others around her were ignorant about the abuse. Also, even if she has realized that she was abused , as Manfred said, she was in no position to complain. She might lose her head.
Indirectly, you agree that Aisha was not 9 years old when she consummated with Muhammad.That's why she did not complain even find it fun and happy and grateful beside her beloved husband. :whistling:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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Sahih hadith are accepted by Muslims as reliable and second only to the Qur'an. You are changing the subject again.

We know what Muslims believe regarding Aisha. So do you. We also know the reason why Muslim accept "marriages" of little girls to men. So do you.

So you can stop pretending.
Indirectly, you agree that Aisha was not 9 years old when she consummated with Muhammad.That's why she did not complain even find it fun and happy and grateful beside her beloved husband
Now that is a novel way to twist logic. She was a child being abused by a man old enough to be her grandfather. She did not complain be cause she was terrified.

And she loved Mohammed so much she killed him.

She did not "consummate" a marriage. She was raped.
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Fernando
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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SAM wrote:The primary and main source of Islam.. Quran NOT hadith.
Authentic hadiths can be distorted, manipulated, modified, altered and exaggerated so in accordance with the doctrines and beliefs of Sunni, Shia, Ahmadiyah, Qadiani, Naqsabandiyah etc and there is also a tradition Isra'iliyat. Based on this, then most of the hadith above can not be used as evidence.
So where in the Koran does it say how old Aisha was at consummation?
Actually, if you want to deny that Aisha was 9 at the time, all you need to do is become a Quranist Muslim. That way you're free from those pesky hadiths and needn't even accept that Aisha existed. Of course, if you rely only on the Koran it cuts away much of what has been said about Mohammed, too. Oh for the simple life!
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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by SAM »

Fernando wrote:
SAM wrote:The primary and main source of Islam.. Quran NOT hadith.
Authentic hadiths can be distorted, manipulated, modified, altered and exaggerated so in accordance with the doctrines and beliefs of Sunni, Shia, Ahmadiyah, Qadiani, Naqsabandiyah etc and there is also a tradition Isra'iliyat. Based on this, then most of the hadith above can not be used as evidence.
So where in the Koran does it say how old Aisha was at consummation?
Actually, if you want to deny that Aisha was 9 at the time, all you need to do is become a Quranist Muslim. That way you're free from those pesky hadiths and needn't even accept that Aisha existed. Of course, if you rely only on the Koran it cuts away much of what has been said about Mohammed, too. Oh for the simple life!
Do not argue with idiots.. :lol:

Quran is not biographies of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and Aisha or Khatijah.. FOOLS
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Sahih hadith are accepted by Muslims as reliable and second only to the Qur'an. You are changing the subject again.

We know what Muslims believe regarding Aisha. So do you. We also know the reason why Muslim accept "marriages" of little girls to men. So do you.

So you can stop pretending.
You know nothing about nikah in Islam.. Celibate.

Now that is a novel way to twist logic. She was a child being abused by a man old enough to be her grandfather. She did not complain be cause she was terrified.

And she loved Mohammed so much she killed him.

She did not "consummate" a marriage. She was raped.
You're entitled to believe it...
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

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And you can stop posting rude comments too. Any more will be deleted.
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idesigner1
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by idesigner1 »

Read Hadith to find out Ayesha's maturity on her sexual IQ.

According to her, Mo had tremendous self control as he used to screw her with her underpants on, without removing it, when she was menstruating. Even not one drop spilled anywhere!!Perhaps no drop left!! Too old to eject late!! Just dry run!!
One wonders why can't he just stay away during her period?
At other place she thinks he had tremendous sexual capacity as he can visit some 19 women in one night. One wonders did she asked other wives how satisfied they were.
A girl married at age 9 and became widow at age 19, what kind of sexual maturity , and wisdom can be expected?

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SAM
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by SAM »

pert wrote:I got into a argument on he youtube comments section where someone claimed aisha was mature enough to know what she was doing as she'd started puberty. What do you all think?
So your question here is whether or not that Aisha maturity or puberty.

Why not you ask the women or ladies here, namely Ariel, idesigner1, sum, Fernando, Frankie, Ibn Rushd and others to give you some sort of explanation .. What are the symptoms of female sexual maturation arrival or early signs of maturity sexual, or signal the arrival of puberty. And please do not ask celibate, he certainly knows nothing about it. :lol:
Last edited by SAM on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: Aisha's Maturity

Post by manfred »

symptoms of female sexual maturation
SAM she was NINE. Nobody by any stretch of imagination calls a nine year old child "mature". She is unable to give consent, as she would not even understand what she would be consenting to.

So she was raped.
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