Muhammeds Grave

[skynightblaze]

I see the cut n paste warriers have landed.

Obviously we will cut paste from somewhere. However its not that we blindly copy paste the quotes without understanding the context. Actually you are the one who is making blanket statements without understanding the context or even backing yourself with evidence. YOu are merely repeating the same claims that I have heard before. Trust me most of them do not have any evidence at all. YOu just parrot out what you heard in the mosques, friends or elders without actually cross checking it with islamic scriptures. I will do that for you here.

if you already in a dirty war with someone, there's no point in being noble.

Did you ever wonder why that dirty war was started? It started because of your prophet. That is my point so your prophet is the culprit. He wanted to attack people to spread islam. Refer the quotes that I brought into the discussion. Self defense means fighting to protect yourself and not fighting to naje islam superior. The latter is an offensive war.

Muhammed and his followers sat it meccah for nearly 10 years taking abuse, being killed,
attempted assasinations etc before they started to fight back.

The truth is Meccans started persecuting your prophet when he kept on ridiculing their Gods. Read your own scriptures. I have highlighted a few parts.

Spoiler! :

ahya b Urwa bin Al-Zubair on the authority of his father from Abdullah b. Amr al-As bin al-As told me that the latter was asked what was the worst way in which Quraish showed their enmity to the apostle. He replied: I was with them one day when the notables had gathered in the Hijr and the apostle was mentioned. They said that they had never anything like the trouble they had endured from this fellow (Muhammad). He had declared their mode of life foolish, insulted their forefathers, reviled their religion, divided the community, and cursed their gods. What they had borne was past all bearing or words to that effect.
While they were thus discussing him the apostle came towards them and kissed the black stone, then he passed them as he walked round the temple. As he passed they said some injurious things about him. This I could see from his expression. He went on and as he passed them the second time they attacked him similarly. This I could see from his expression. Then he passed the third time and they did the same. He (Muhammad) stopped and said. Will you listen to me O Quraish? By him who holds my life in his hand, I bring you SLAUGHTER

This word struck the people that not one of them but stood silent and still; even one who had hitherto been most violent spoke to him in the kindest way possible, saying “Depart O Abul Qasim (Muhammad’s nickname) for by god you are not violent”. So the apostle went away, ad on the morrow they assembled in the HIjr. I being there too, and they asked one another if they remembered what had taken place between them and the apostle so that when he openly said something unpleasant they let him alone. While they were talking thus the apostle appeared, and the leaped upon him as one man and encircled him, saying “Are you the one who said so-and-so against our gods and our religion? The apostle said “yes, I am the one who said that’. And I saw one of them seize his robe. Then Abu Bakr interposed himself weeping and saying ‘would you kill a man for saying Allah is my lord?’. Then they left him. This is the worst I ever saw Quraish do to him.

The worst that meccans did to Muhammad was that one of them jumped on him to beat the sh!t out of him. This comes from Ibn Ishaq. Now these meccans could have easily killed Muhammad if they wanted to. The very fact that he could live in Mecca for 10 long years without being killed itself shows that Meccans were tolerant. Meccans were powerful initially and they had all the means to kill him. Now what happened to Meccans when muhammad conquered Mecca? He killed all those who refuse to accept islam. Also note that muhammad threatened to slaughter the meccans.

Spoiler! :

Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Ibn Ishaq:
The Messenger of God proclaimed God’s message openly and declared Islam publicly to his tribesmen. When he did so, they did not withdraw from him or reject him in anyway, as far as I had heard, UNTIL he spoke of their gods and denounced them. When he did this, they took exception to it and united in opposition and hostility to him, except for those of them whom God had protected from error by means of Islam. The latter were few in number and practiced their faith in secret. His uncle Abu Talib was friendly to him, however, and protected him and shielded him from them. The Messenger of God continued to do God’s work and to proclaim his message, undeterred by anything. When Quraysh saw that he would not give them any satisfaction, they objected to his departing from their ways and denouncing their gods, and seeing that Abu Talib protected him, shielded him from harm, and would not hand him over to them, a number of the nobles of Quraysh, consisting of such men as ‘Utbah b. Rabi‘ah, Shaybah b. Rabi‘ah, Abu al-Bakhtari b. Hisham, al-Aswad b. al-Muttalib, al-Walid b. al-Mughirah, Abu Jahl b. Hisham, al-‘As b. Wa’il and Nubayh and Munabbih, the sons of al-Hajjaj, went to Abu Talib and said, "Abu Talib, your nephew has reviled our gods, denounced our religion, derided our traditional values and told us that our forefathers were misguided. Either curb his attacks on us or give us a free hand to deal with him, for you are just as opposed to him as we are, and we will deal with him for you." Abu Talib gave them a mild answer and declined courteously, and they left him. The Messenger of God continued as before, proclaiming the faith of God and summoning people to it.

After this, Muhammad was estranged from the Quraysh, and they withdrew from him and harbored a secret hatred for him. They talked about him frequently amongst themselves and urged one another against him. Eventually they went to Abu Talib once again. "Abu Talib," they said, "we hold you in respect among us on account of your age, your nobility and your standing. We asked you to forbid your nephew TO ATTACK US, but you did not do so. By God, we can no longer endure this vilification of our forefathers, this derision of our traditional values and this abuse of our gods. Either you restrain him or we shall fight both of you over this until one side or the other is destroyed," or words to that effect. Then they left. This breach and enmity with his tribe weighed heavily on Abu Talib, but he could not reconcile himself to surrendering the Messenger of God to them or deserting him.

Muhammad b. al-Husayn- Ahmad b. al-Mufaddal- Asbat- al-Suddi: A number of men of the Quraysh gathered together with a number of other shaykhs of the Quraysh, and said to one another, "Let us go to Abu Talib and speak to him about Muhammad, so that he will give us justice against him and order him to desist from reviling our gods and we will leave him to the god whom he worships for we fear that this old man may die and we may do something which the Arabs will reproach us for and say, ‘They let him alone until his uncle died, and then they laid hands on him.’"

They sent one of their number, whose name was al-Muttalib, to Abu Talib to ask permission for them to enter. He said, "Here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe asking permission to visit you." He told him to ask them to come in, and when they had done so they said, "Abu Talib, you are our elder and our chief, so give us justice against your nephew and order him to desist from reviling our gods, and we will leave him to his god."

Abu Talib sent for the Messenger of God, and when he came in he said, "Nephew, here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe. They have asked for justice against you, that you should desist from reviling their gods and they will leave you to your god. "Uncle," he said, "shall I not summon them to something which is better for them than their gods?" "What do you summon them to?" he asked. He replied, "I summon them to utter a saying through which the Arabs will submit to them and they will rule over the non-Arabs." "Abu Jahl said from among the gathering, "What is it, by your father? We would give you it and ten like it." He answered, "That you should say, ‘There is no deity but God.’" They took fright at that and said, "Ask for anything rather than that!" But he said, "If you were to bring me the sun and put it into my hand, I would not ask you for anything other than this."

They rose up to leave in anger and said, "By God, we shall revile you and your god who commands you to do this!" "The chiefs among them hurried about, exhorting; Go and be staunch to your gods! This is a thing designed…" to the words "naught but an invention.

When the apostle openly displayed Islam as Allah ordered him, his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that, they took great offence and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy.

[The Meccans] said they had never known anything like the trouble they had endured from this fellow. He had declared their mode of life foolish, insulted their forefathers, reviled their religion, divided the community and cursed their gods

The above quotes clarifies as to who was the offender.

They started to raid caravans because ALL their property was looted by the meccans
when they left for medina.

Evidence please..Also from the above quotes, its quite clear that your prophet started this war even after being warned multiple times.

'goldilocks ate baby bears porridge, the end', its not the whole story is it, you cant
give a life biogrophy on someone by quoting an event in a single moment in time.

Its going to be ugly for you if you really play that card because most of your islamic sources say that it was Muhammad who started the war. I can quoted dozens of quotes with context. Actually you are the one who is not considering any context.

As i said in another post, there Is a military aspect to islam, just as every nation on
earth has a military, why cant muslims have a military?

There is no problem with having a military. There is however a problem with using military force to spread your religion. That's offensive fighting.

[skynightblaze]

So if a woman (and woman only) nullified the prayer, why and how did aisha sit in front of him
when he was praying?

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 492:

Narrated ‘Aisha, the wife of the Prophet, “I used to sleep in front of Allah’s Apostle with my legs opposite his Qibla (facing him); and whenever he prostrated, he pushed my feet and I withdrew them and whenever he stood, I stretched them.” ‘Aisha added, “In those days there were no lamps in the houses.”

Does it require too much intelligence to understand this hadith? There was a discussion between `Aishah, the wife of the Prophet (P), with some Muslims who were not knowledgeable about religious maters on the issue of what would nullify the salat (the Islamic ritual prayer). She told them that she was knowledgeable about such rules. They remarked that when a woman or a dog, or a donkey passed in front of a praying person, the latter’s prayer was nullified. She corrected their wrong understanding with sarcasm (by saying that they are equating woman with dogs) and said that when the Prophet (P) prayed his tahajjud (midnight voluntary prayers) in her room, her bed (where she lay) was right in front of him. Hence, those Muslims were wrong in their understanding of the rules of nullification of salat: a salat is not nullified if a woman is in front of a praying person.

Other ahadith that closely follow in Bukhari further collaborates the matter.

Ok from this hadith , it would appear that it was people who thought that a woman nullified the prayer and not muhammad as Aisha gave example of muhammad having no problems when Aisha was with him while praying. This is again not true. I just did some search and found another hadith where Muhammad also supported what people told to Aisha. It seems that their source was Muhammad himself..

(Sahih Muslim, Hadith 790)
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) said: "A woman, an ass and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that."

What this means is - Muhammad did not say anything to Aisha while praying but behind her back he did bitch about it to people and as a result people parroted the same thing in front of Aisha. However even Aisha recognized that she was being insulted and compared with dog and a donkey.. This is islam for you buddy! Also you said nothing about wife beating , denigration of women by calling them intellectually deficient. Please address those points too.

[skynightblaze]

@alemcodon

Finally you quote some people (they might be intellectuals) telling us how conditions of women are improved because of muhammad. They are laughable statements epsecially when see what islam preaches about women. Here are the facts:

1) Sahih Bukhari 1:6:30 -I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.
2) He ordered that men can beat their wives. (Quran 4:34)
3) He compared them with donkeys and dogs (Refer the hadith above)
4) Testimony of a woman is half that of a man. Again we see inequality.(Quran 2:282)
5)The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:
Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like .
6)The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women.(From Bukhari)
7) A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.(quran 4:11)
8) Slave girls are sexual property of owners Surah 4:24. The surah gives permission to muslim men to have sex with the women captured in wars. Which woman in this world would love to have sex with a man who has killed her family? In short rape is allowed on women slaves.
9) A man can have 4 wives but other way is not allowed

Btw I can quote dozens of intellectuals who have negative opinion on islam. Do you want to see that list? It contains Winston Churchill, Khushwant Singh, Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar and many. The bottom line is just because intellectuals say something, it does not become true. Intellectuals can go wrong. Truth is not dependent on them. Evidence determines truth and evidence goes against you.

[SAM]

This in no way is self defense! You never fight to spread religion in case of self defense.
(Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220)
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures.

Here is the self confession. You see the first muslim terrorist was your own prophet.

Hi SNB,

Tell me, do you mean "the keys of treasure " does that mean Jihad or in other words "Holy War in Allah's Cause"...

[sum]

Hello SAM

Skynightblaze will answer for himself but I will ask you the following question.

This hadith was for the muslims, including you. What do you understand it to mean?

To me, it means that Muhammad was using terror to gain riches. What else can it mean?

sum

[frankie]

SAM:


Of course it means “holy war” that is the reason Islam exists, because of the mind-set of its deluded prophet, who based all his reasoning’s for his invented religion on a pervasion of how true religion should be practiced. All Mohammed was interested in was material gain to make himself and his followers rich with stolen lands, and sexual conquests, using his own cultural practises of “expansion through might and terror” as his blue print, he even kept all his familiar pre Islamic pagan tribal religious rites and rituals in the form of Ramadan, which all Muslims still perform today thinking they are “right with their god”, which they are, only it is the pagan idol Allah who they are” right with “and not the God of the Bible who it falsely claims to represent.

The Quran and its prophets example makes all Muslims terrorists for their god, not something to be proud of.


Tabari 9: 82
The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.”

Sahih Muslim: Book 019, Number 4294:
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.

[skynightblaze]

This in no way is self defense! You never fight to spread religion in case of self defense.
(Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220)
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror, and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures.

Here is the self confession. You see the first muslim terrorist was your own prophet.

Hi SNB,

Tell me, do you mean "the keys of treasure " does that mean Jihad or in other words "Holy War in Allah's Cause"...

I have highlighted the part that I felt was problematic. Muhammad himself admits that he became victorious through terror. I didn't say anything about keys of treasure. Also showing me thumbs down isn't going to make you look convincing. People need sound arguments. You are just spamming the forum with meaningless posts.

[SAM]

I have highlighted the part that I felt was problematic. Muhammad himself admits that he became victorious through terror. I didn't say anything about keys of treasure. Also showing me thumbs down isn't going to make you look convincing. People need sound arguments. You are just spamming the forum with meaningless posts.

So, this means that you do not know the full meaning of this hadith except "I (Muhammad) have been made victorious with terror"...


Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

[manfred]

Well, that hadith sums it up. Mohammed admits openly he is a murderous villain and his Islam only exists to make him rich. Thank you for pointing it out. So I take it you have already left Islam in disgust.

[frankie]

I have highlighted the part that I felt was problematic. Muhammad himself admits that he became victorious through terror. I didn't say anything about keys of treasure. Also showing me thumbs down isn't going to make you look convincing. People need sound arguments. You are just spamming the forum with meaningless posts.

So, this means that you do not know the full meaning of this hadith except "I (Muhammad) have been made victorious with terror"...


Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

SAM:
Mohammed is the only "prophet "claiming to represent the God of the Bible who used terrorism to achieve his objectives.

Islamic sources tell us that its god cannot change what has been revealed before,by confirming the Law and the Gospel QS 5.43-5.58 and yet this is exactly what it does, by using methods which are not only malignant towards humanity, but diametrically oppose the instructions given by previous Bible prophets, including one it allegedly highly regards and supposedly respects.

If I were a Muslim, I would be extremely concerned by the fact that the prophet I most trust with my salvation was in reality the equivalent of a 21st century terrorist, terrorising those who would not accept his god Allah as the only god, fighting and killing them, all with his gods full authority.

Further, by accepting this terrorist as a prophet of god, would make me complicit with the terrorism being acted out on a daily basis at present, throughout the world,as it is done all in the name of the faith I believe as true.

Believing in a god that uses terrorism as its modus operandi,makes that god a god of war, which as pointed out is why the Islamic faith exists.

Anything which opposes the commands of the God of the Bible, is in opposition, which according to the Bible makes the author of this opposition Satan, who wants to destroy anything that is good, by using deceit as its modus operandi, described by one of Islam's own prophets as "the father of lies "which you yourself have used to present Christianity as the falsehood all Muslims are led to believe it is.
The Children of the Devil John 8:43-45
…43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.…

According to the God of the Bible, which is said to be the same god that gave the Quran, Mohammed fits the profile for being a false prophet, who used warfare to bring people into submission to his god Allah, and as Mohammed said so readily, war is deceit.

All of which makes Muslims part of a lie, based on deceit, they are following the modus operandi of Satan, not the God of the Bible.

[Fernando]

Islamic sources tell us that its god cannot change what has been revealed before,by confirming the Law and the Gospel QS 5.43-5.58 and yet this is exactly what it does

The Muslim god changes thing on the fly: abrogation.

[Centaur]

Quran 2:106
Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

weird Allah he cause certain verses to be forgotten by people.


certainly some of theses verses are meant to give Mohammed exemptions and special needs

[ExmuslimBoy]

He is buried in Ayeshas appartment, meaning its in the room when he raped and fuc-ked her.

[brooqdes]

i love Muhammeds

[Ariel]

Welcome brooqdes. Sorry for the delay, but you can post now before waiting for approval.

[manfred]

i love Muhammeds

Hi, and welcome to our forum!

There is no argument with love. You love who you love.

But do you really know this Mohammed? Is it possible you love only your own ideal of Mohammed? Make every effort to find out all you can about him...

[Jesusistheway]

Could it be that his followers basically don't have a choice....it's obligatory in islam to do this at least once in their lifetime health permitting...and as it costs a ridiculous amount of cash to visit this ' shrine ' he was making sure their would be money gained from tax...so there you have it...Muhammad doing his homework to make sure future generations of muslims would worship him...a self obsessed narcissist...