alemcodon wrote:I see the cut n paste warriers have landed.
Obviously we will cut paste from somewhere. However its not that we blindly copy paste the quotes without understanding the context. Actually you are the one who is making blanket statements without understanding the context or even backing yourself with evidence. YOu are merely repeating the same claims that I have heard before. Trust me most of them do not have any evidence at all. YOu just parrot out what you heard in the mosques, friends or elders without actually cross checking it with islamic scriptures. I will do that for you here.
alemcodon wrote:if you already in a dirty war with someone, there's no point in being noble.
Did you ever wonder why that dirty war was started? It started because of your prophet. That is my point so your prophet is the culprit. He wanted to attack people to spread islam. Refer the quotes that I brought into the discussion. Self defense means fighting to protect yourself and not fighting to naje islam superior. The latter is an offensive war.
alemcodon wrote:Muhammed and his followers sat it meccah for nearly 10 years taking abuse, being killed,
attempted assasinations etc before they started to fight back.
The truth is Meccans started persecuting your prophet when he kept on ridiculing their Gods. Read your own scriptures. I have highlighted a few parts.
Ibn Ishaq: 183-184 wrote:Spoiler! :
The worst that meccans did to Muhammad was that one of them jumped on him to beat the sh!t out of him. This comes from Ibn Ishaq. Now these meccans could have easily killed Muhammad if they wanted to. The very fact that he could live in Mecca for 10 long years without being killed itself shows that Meccans were tolerant. Meccans were powerful initially and they had all the means to kill him. Now what happened to Meccans when muhammad conquered Mecca? He killed all those who refuse to accept islam. Also note that muhammad threatened to slaughter the meccans.
Al Tabari wrote:Spoiler! :
Ibn Ishaq 167 wrote: When the apostle openly displayed Islam as Allah ordered him, his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that, they took great offence and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy.
Ibn Ishaq 183 wrote: [The Meccans] said they had never known anything like the trouble they had endured from this fellow. He had declared their mode of life foolish, insulted their forefathers, reviled their religion, divided the community and cursed their gods
The above quotes clarifies as to who was the offender.
Alemcodon wrote:They started to raid caravans because ALL their property was looted by the meccans
when they left for medina.
Evidence please..Also from the above quotes, its quite clear that your prophet started this war even after being warned multiple times.
Alemcodon wrote:'goldilocks ate baby bears porridge, the end', its not the whole story is it, you cant
give a life biogrophy on someone by quoting an event in a single moment in time.
Its going to be ugly for you if you really play that card because most of your islamic sources say that it was Muhammad who started the war. I can quoted dozens of quotes with context. Actually you are the one who is not considering any context.
Alemcodon wrote:As i said in another post, there Is a military aspect to islam, just as every nation on
earth has a military, why cant muslims have a military?
There is no problem with having a military. There is however a problem with using military force to spread your religion. That's offensive fighting.