All Muhammad`s deeds were condoned by Allah.

[peterpin]

I am not to take a hadith 200 years after the life of Muhammad over gods words.

Not even a sahih one,it seems... and that is what we need to examine a little further...

It gets back to the root of the problem: You BELIEVE the quran to be the word of god. There is not evidence for that at all, to say "because it says so in the quran" is just just plain silly.In fact there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that the quran cannot be from god at all.

Here is the problem:

You cannot look at the quran as you can look at the hadith or any other text. Your beliefs prevents you to. You can only accept anything as possibly accurate if it agrees with the quran. If there is something in the text,like the suggestion the earth is flat like a carpet, you got into overdrive to protect YOUR BELIEF, not to find an answer or explanation.Meaning ofwords get changed and widened,so that the BELIEF is portected as this cannot under any circumstances be compromised.

It the quran said the sky is green, you would refine green to include blue.

If you ask person who has left Islam behind,you will out something quite surprising: most describe the steps upto that were marked by fear, but when the decision was made, suddenly awhollot of things fellinto place and mademore sense. It is fear that prevents you to really look closely.

Let's leave the hadith for a while...

Imentioned that the quran tellsus a punishment for adultery,and is prescribes 100 lashes. Mohammed stoned adulterers. So, did themissing stoning verse abrogate the existing 100 lashes verse? Or are you the only one here whocannotsee that Mohammed did not in fact obey the quran?

Here is my take on the mystery:

At some point Mohammed used lashing to punish adulterers, and allah dutifully provided a verse sanctioning that,the one I gave. Later Mohammed got more brutal and stoned adulterers to death. It could be he discovered some of the texts in the Torah about that,or maybe it was just a whim. It does not matter why; the fact is he did it.

Later, in the hadith,we are told that Allah revealed a stoning verse. This never made it into the quran. Maybe there never was such a verse. Then the hadith was an attempt to deal with the problem that Mohammed did not follow his own rules. In saying it was revealed to Mohammed after all to stone adulterers, the conflict that Mohammed breaks the rule of the quran, was at least partially resolved. Allah sanctioned it after all,at least the pious stories tell us.

The problem is, it's NOT in the quran. So when Muslims stone adulterers today, they do so on the basis of this hadith you reject and on the basis of the example Mohammed has set them.But in doing so, they ignore the quran which mentions specifically a different punishment.

This means that at least in this case Mohammed's actions override,or abrogate the quran.

That in itself reveals the quran as what it really is: One of several means of people control employed by Mohammed, a tool in the arsenal of Mohammed, disguised very poorly as a divinely authored text.

[peterpin]

Querido Fernando...

Para Usted...

SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 1, #234



1.234: Narrated Abu Qilaba:



Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ."

The hilarious part is that to this day there are some Muslims saying that camel urine is really medicine.
http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009071143333

[sum]

Hello Ghaith

Please answer my question that you are avoiding.

Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

sum

[ringmaster]

Are you saying ringmaster that you have never drunk animal urine in your life? Do you read the ingredients of the medicines you have taken in your life time? Do you know its used today as a therapy against cancer

OK Ghaith....which is it? Now you are telling us that you believe in the hadith? I thought you said the hadith were false.

You are contradicting yourself.

Which is it? Do you believe in the hadith or not?

[kaimana1]

Hello Ghaith

Please answer my question that you are avoiding.

Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

sum

I'm sure Ghaith will not mind me answering your question sum he ha

The answer to your question is a RESOUNDING NO- that is why wherever they implement shariah law they stone adulterers etc..

[kaimana1]

Over time you will be like iffo. trust me

Dont insult me Kai

What makes you thing i will become an atheist? Even you belive in god Kai.

I was complimenting you Ghaith I don't know if you will become atheist, maybe agnostic , maybe deist or buddhist universalist like farhan qureshi maybe even christian. who knows?

but your foundation has been shaken in islam. once beyond a doubt when you realize how osama abdullah lies on his answering christianity site (v'e already shown you two of his DELIBERATE LIES about dahaha and 18:86-90) it will be a matter of time before you become a murtadd.

[Ghaith]

Over time you will be like iffo. trust me

Dont insult me Kai :

What makes you thing i will become an atheist? Even you belive in god Kai.

I was complimenting you Ghaith I don't know if you will become atheist, maybe agnostic , maybe deist or buddhist universalist like farhan qureshi maybe even christian. who knows?

but your foundation has been shaken in islam. once beyond a doubt when you realize how osama abdullah lies on his answering christianity site (v'e already shown you two of his DELIBERATE LIES about dahaha and 18:86-90) it will be a matter of time before you become a murtadd.

Its 1:30 and i got school tomorow we get to the dahaha stuff tomorow.

As for buddist agnostic and atheist i belive in 1 god only.

Christian?
And belive in 3 gods as 1? Worship idol Jesus, and belive in a book written by a guy who tought Jesus spoke to him and 4 gospels who was written by unknow people later named Mark Luke John and Matthew. Making me laugh before bed time

Talking here has done nothing more than to educate me about how Christians and Atheist acts at debating. You people never brought anything new. All you are saing Anis Shorrosh said 20 years ago Jay Smith said it. And the points have been refuted. So dont insult me again

[ringmaster]

.............................. i belive in 1 god only.

...................... So dont insult me again

Muslims are polytheistic. They worship their prophet more than allah. Anybody witnessed the reaction to Salman Rushdie's book or to the cartoons can see that.

Ghaith...........we don't insult you. Most of us, including me, think you are on OK guy. It's your bitchboy allah & your manwhore prophet that we insult.

[kaimana1]

Its 1:30 and i got school tomorow we get to the dahaha stuff tomorow.

Anytime Ghaith.

As for buddist agnostic and atheist i belive in 1 god only.

Many buddhists believe in one god- buddhism at it's very core is atheistic in the sense that it lacks a belief in any god. That is why many japanese are both daoists and buddhist etc...

Christian?
And belive in 3 gods as 1? Worship idol Jesus,

No jesus is not an idol.if you are referring to catholics using crucifixes - that is no more idol worship Say no more then that stone embedded inside the kaabah that muslims bow to five times a day.

Jesus spoke to him and 4 gospels who was written by unknow people later named Mark Luke John and Matthew. Making me laugh before bed time

Well , matthew and john were jesus apostles mark also known as john mark was a relative of the apostle peter . luke was a greek convert and companion to peter james and paul. Their writings are four accounts of ONE GOSPEL jesus parables and teachings was THE GOSPEL.

Talking here has done nothing more than to educate me about how Christians and Atheist acts at debating. You people never brought anything new. All you are saing Anis Shorrosh said 20 years ago Jay Smith said it. And the points have been refuted. So dont insult me again

I have issues with one book anis shorrosh wrote. (I have only read one of his books) especially about the ismaelite issue , and his we argument was poor .

In any case you havent brought anything new either Ghaith... You are spewing deedat,naik and osama abdullah vitriol. ALl three of them are LYING frauds

[Fernando]

Are you saying ringmaster that you have never drunk animal urine in your life? Do you read the ingredients of the medicines you have taken in your life time? Do you know its used today as a therapy against cancer

This is new to me. Is it the Koran or the hadiths that recommend camel piss? As for it being used today against cancer, do give evidence of this - and that it works - please, Ghaith. Unless of course your means you're joking, in which case it's in very poor taste.

Ever heard of Premarin?

I hadn't. However, it is not a question of drinking camel piss, it's just that pregnant horses' urine is a cheap and convenient source of oestrogens. The original stuff was from Catholic nuns, btw, but not being pregnant they didn't produce much. Male urine would be no good at all, and it's a specific treatment, not a cure-all. As for curing cancer, there are claims that it causes it.

Research starting in 1975 showed substantially increased risk of endometrial cancer.[6][7] Since 1976 the drug has carried a label warning about the risk.[8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premarin
So please don't confuse legends of folk medicine with modern science.

[Ghaith]

So please don't confuse legends of folk medicine with modern science.

I never said Premarin cures cancer, other sort of urine does that i cannot remember from what animal. I just asked if you knew about Premarin. Camel’s urine is efficacious in the treatment of skin diseases such as ringworm, tinea and abscesses, sores that may appear on the body and hair, and dry and wet ulcers

[sum]

Hello Ghaith

Please answer my question that I have asked more than once but you have ignored.

Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

sum

[sum]

Hello Ghaith

Please stop ignoring my question.

Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

sum

[Ghaith]

Hello Ghaith

Please stop ignoring my question.

Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

sum

If you didnt want me to ignore you than you should have tought about that when you misrepresented me several times

[paxi christi]

:sum

and still Ghaith doesnt give you an answer.lolol.

go on Ghaith answer the man.

youve got no balls?all mouth?

[sum]

Hello Ghaith

Please stop avoiding my question. Guests are noting your utter failure to answer the question which only demonstrates the complete hold that Islam has over you. Are you really too frightened to answer my question?

Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

sum

[Fernando]

Come on Ghaith, it sounds a straight forward enough question.
Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

[Ghaith]

Come on Ghaith, it sounds a straight forward enough question.
Did Muhammad only stone Jews?

No he didnt only stone jews according to hadiths.

[peterpin]

so the quran, as we have seen, says that the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes, but Mohammed stoned adulterers. How do you explain that?

[sum]

Hello peterpin

One possible explanation is that there really was a verse of stoning in the Koran which Muhammad followed but this verse was, in fact, actually eaten by the "Holy Goat" and so was nolonger in the Koran. However, this raises another question. Why have directives in the Koran for lashing as well as stoning? As Ghaith conceeds, the ahadith confirm that non-Jews were also stoned and so the lame excuse of stoning Jews because of their religion`s punishments can not apply to the non-Jews. If muslims were stoned, where is the Koranic instruction for this punishment? There is no reference to Muhammad receiving Allah`s guidance for stoning muslims either in the Koran or ahadith - just that he did stone according to accounts in the ahadith. Perhaps he enjoyed stoning and listening to the cries and screams with blood pouring out of the face and head.

This one matter alone questions the validity of the Koran. The more that one examines the Koran, Muhammad and the ahadith the clearer it becomes that Islam is based purely on falsehood and fear. It is more than clear that Muhammad created the Koran for his own purposes and when he reached the point of being in absolute control he simply did as he wanted without challenge. He was not restricted by the Koran`s guidance. Can the muslims not see this?

We already have Ghaith refusing to say that Muhammad was wrong in not writing a will in defiance of the Koran. Ghaith does not dare comment at all otherwise he would have to criticise Muhammad. This would be unthinkable for him. It just shows how Islamic indoctrination which compromises critical thinking and instills fear has total control over muslims. They really are dumb terminals only capable of spouting what the main computer dictates. No personal thoughts of their own. Both sad and frightening.

sum