are there good things about Muhammad?

[pr126]

Hello uncung

Your quote -
Once a blind man came into the house of Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam). The Prophet told Ummul Mumineen Aisha (radi Allahu anha) to go behind a curtain. She replied, “O Prophet of Allah, he is blind. How can he see us?” The Prophet replied: “He may be blind, but you are not blind.” [Ahmad]

What on earth is unacceptable about Aisha seeing a blind man? How much more banal can you get?

sum

The blind man was naked.

[HomerJay]

Once a blind man came into the house of Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam). The Prophet told Ummul Mumineen Aisha (radi Allahu anha) to go behind a curtain. She replied, “O Prophet of Allah, he is blind. How can he see us?” The Prophet replied: “He may be blind, but you are not blind.” [Ahmad]

So much for the oft-repeated "protection of the honour and modesty of women". Mohammed shows that the covering of women is purely to prevent man's women from "checking out the competition". Pretty insecure about himself and insulting toward Aisha that he couldn't trust her to even look at another man. And a blind one at that.

[SAM]

Sam
It would be helpful also if you could give an answer to my claims about the Trinity,

The Trinity of Catholics (Pagan Christians) consisted of these three: Jesus, Mary and Father so there is absolutely nothing wrong with what the Quran states.. As far as I know that Paul did not mention Mary, or for that matter even Joseph at all, and in the gospels, the figure of Mary is almost non-existing. I don't think there's a need to have it explained again. Which has already been refuted an hundred times over, including here on this site and others.

and what the miracle birth of Jesus means to Muslims?

In the Quran says, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]." and "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ]. He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous." She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?"

Muslims love and honor Mary, the Mother of Jesus (not as Mother of God), without a doubt no woman that is given more attention than Maryam. And she is presented as an example to all humankind especially as a woman, an example for women in all aspects of their lives. Her sincerity, piety, purity and devotion to God the Supreme Being are qualities that all Muslims, Christianity and Judaism aspire to. What a contrast with Islam! The Holy Qur'an has a whole chapter named after Mary "Surah Maryam" and she has such a high place as mentioned in the above post. Maryam holds one of the most honored positions in the hearts of Muslims of all times and places.

You appear to take lightly the dealing with aposates,in the Islamic faith.Please explain then,

Who the hell am I on dealing with apostates? Let the God's dealings with them. They have nowhere to go after their death “To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return."

what is the penalty for leaving Islam?

So far as I know, there is no single verse in the Quran itself that prescribes an earthly punishment for apostasy. Conclusion…There is NO capital punishment for apostates?

The Islamic extremists you mention are the true Muslims,fighting in Allahs cause, as set down by the example of their prophet.

Nope! They do not truly Muslims represent the sentiments of the entire Islamic Ummah as a whole. Muhammad fights in the cause of Allah according to the situation during the early Islamic period.

The Muslims that do not put Mohammed's actions into practice,are not following Mohammeds example correctly,probably because they have never read this haddith in Bukhari,and probably because they have just relied upon their Imams ,being "economical with the truth".

I am not interested in Hadith of Bukhari. I am not followers of Bukhari’s. I am a servant of Allah.

Many Muslims have been misled and their thoughts are misguided by imams and their radical Muslim organizations who bend the textuality of the Qur'an to their agenda. ...

Either way the words that are read,in Islamic scripture have been taken as they are written.If they should not to be taken as written,then it has not been made clear enough,either by Allah or by Mohammed.

You need to know that the Biblical texts aren’t like the Quran… many Christians thought that Quran verse parts of it are man-made and with it comes prejudice of that time.

Muhammad said, that the Qur’an (Islamic Scriptures) has an outer meaning and inner meaning, Allah sent down the Qur'an in seven successive layers of inner meaning. Each inner meaning is more useful and more profitable than the one before, because it is a marrow.

All the verses and chapters of the Quran interpretations depend on the individual’s personal belief.

You also need to explain the fighting verses in the Quran,allegedly from Allah commanding Muslims to fight unbelievers,even though they might not like it,2:216,and again in 9:29 These commands,are given to be the literal words from Allah to Muslims, for all times and places remember,not just an historical record.

You see the words “Fighting” “Fight” appears on the two verses. It doesn’t mean fighting (war) as it is generally supposed to be. These two verses have different meanings.

Quran 2:216
Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. Allah Knows, while you know not.

This verse simply describe the principle that whoever wants to live and good and righteous life before the God. They must confess often because, in doing so, or they (a person) must the continual struggle of life is that in worldly life one struggles in another direction or whatever be life's path, if a person proves to be lacking in that power which enables him/her to struggle along, he/she meets nothing but failure. He/she may be a good person, a saintly person, a spiritual person, but that does not count.

see the color

Quran 9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

The verse describes directly to People of the Book/Scriptures and Pharisees. You have to know the differences between ordinary religious people and People of the Book/Scriptures and Pharisees.

Let me tell you the meaning “People of the Book/Scriptures" as describes in Romans 1:28-32

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

[marduk]

Quran says, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]." and "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ]. He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous." She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?"

So according to Allah, Jibril and Muhammad, Jesus was the Messiah. I wonder what Arabs thought a Messiah was, because they clearly had no understanding of the concept. Let's see what it means, shall we?

A messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern Mashiaẖ Tiberian Māšîăḥ Arabic language مسيح Masih “anointed”) is a redeemer figure expected or foretold in one form or another by a religion. Slightly more widely, a messiah is any redeemer figure. Messianic beliefs or theories generally relate to eschatological improvement of the state of humanity or the world,[1] in other words the World to Come.

Messiahs appear in many religions including Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In the Hebrew Bible messiahs are priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil as described in Exodus 30:22-25. In later Jewish messianic tradition and eschatology, messiah refers to a leader anointed by God, and in some cases, a future King of Israel, physically descended from the Davidic line, who will rule the united tribes of Israel[2] and herald the Messianic Age[3] of global peace. In Judaism, the Messiah is not considered to be God or a Son of God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

So according to an angel, presumably the very same Jibril who dictated the Quran, Jesus was "anointed by God", making him the King. The angelic visitation confirms the truth of the matter. Jesus was the legitimate Messiah, the King of Israel and I'm assuming the world. If Muhammad had been of any real importance his coming birth would have been announced by Jibril. Can't say I recall Allah anointing Muhammad, nor do I recall any hadiths about Muhammad's mother being visited by an angel to announce Muhammad's coming birth. Wasn't even worth the trouble, apparently. That verse from the Quran is the single most important thing in the whole book. It tells us very plainly that Jesus was the Messiah, God's chosen King. Last I heard, anyone who is a follower of God has to do what his king of Earth and probably heaven says. Since the Quran didn't bother to tell us what the King said, but did confirm that all prior scriptures were accurate, we must assume that the Gospels are accurate. If they weren't then surely Allah would have given us the true words of his King.

So according to the Quran, the Gospels are true except for Jesus being the son of God. Obviously not, because you can't be the Messiah AND the son of God at the same time. Messiah was never said to be the son of God in any Jewish scripture. So the Quran did correct that error but all the rest must be true. Jesus really is the Messiah. Thanks for clearing that up, Allah. Now we know who to follow. We understand how power corrupts even the best of people, and that's what happened to Muhammad. He turned to the dark side, but Jesus never did. Jesus stayed righteous up to his death. Thank you, Jesus, for being better than the weak Muhammad. Yes, Jesus, we also understand why Muhammad said that your Gospels were corrupted. After he turned evil, Muhammad also got jealous of you, Jesus, and had to try to put you down. We'll just ignore the evil Muhammad. Oh sure, Muhammad, Gospels are all corrupted in the exact same way, yeah we totally buy that, uh huh (get him with the butterfly net NOW).

So do tell us, Muslims, why should we care about anything this nobody Muhammad had to say when we have four Gospels full of the words of the anointed Messiah of God, announced by Jibril himself? Here's your choice; do what a hairy illiterate nobody Arab killer/bandit said or do what the Messiah of God said. It's a tough choice I know, hairy nobody or Messiah. I'll give you some time to think it over.

[SAM]

Quran says, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]." and "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ]. He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous." She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?"

So according to Allah, Jibril and Muhammad, Jesus was the Messiah. I wonder what Arabs thought a Messiah was, because they clearly had no understanding of the concept. Let's see what it means, shall we?

A messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern Mashiaẖ Tiberian Māšîăḥ Arabic language مسيح Masih “anointed”) is a redeemer figure expected or foretold in one form or another by a religion. Slightly more widely, a messiah is any redeemer figure. Messianic beliefs or theories generally relate to eschatological improvement of the state of humanity or the world,[1] in other words the World to Come.

Messiahs appear in many religions including Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In the Hebrew Bible messiahs are priests and kings, who were traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil as described in Exodus 30:22-25. In later Jewish messianic tradition and eschatology, messiah refers to a leader anointed by God, and in some cases, a future King of Israel, physically descended from the Davidic line, who will rule the united tribes of Israel[2] and herald the Messianic Age[3] of global peace. In Judaism, the Messiah is not considered to be God or a Son of God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

So according to an angel, presumably the very same Jibril who dictated the Quran, Jesus was "anointed by God", making him the King. The angelic visitation confirms the truth of the matter. Jesus was the legitimate Messiah, the King of Israel and I'm assuming the world. If Muhammad had been of any real importance his coming birth would have been announced by Jibril. Can't say I recall Allah anointing Muhammad, nor do I recall any hadiths about Muhammad's mother being visited by an angel to announce Muhammad's coming birth. Wasn't even worth the trouble, apparently. That verse from the Quran is the single most important thing in the whole book. It tells us very plainly that Jesus was the Messiah, God's chosen King. Last I heard, anyone who is a follower of God has to do what his king of Earth and probably heaven says. Since the Quran didn't bother to tell us what the King said, but did confirm that all prior scriptures were accurate, we must assume that the Gospels are accurate. If they weren't then surely Allah would have given us the true words of his King.

So according to the Quran, the Gospels are true except for Jesus being the son of God. Obviously not, because you can't be the Messiah AND the son of God at the same time. Messiah was never said to be the son of God in any Jewish scripture. So the Quran did correct that error but all the rest must be true. Jesus really is the Messiah. Thanks for clearing that up, Allah. Now we know who to follow. We understand how power corrupts even the best of people, and that's what happened to Muhammad. He turned to the dark side, but Jesus never did. Jesus stayed righteous up to his death. Thank you, Jesus, for being better than the weak Muhammad. Yes, Jesus, we also understand why Muhammad said that your Gospels were corrupted. After he turned evil, Muhammad also got jealous of you, Jesus, and had to try to put you down. We'll just ignore the evil Muhammad. Oh sure, Muhammad, Gospels are all corrupted in the exact same way, yeah we totally buy that, uh huh (get him with the butterfly net NOW).

So do tell us, Muslims, why should we care about anything this nobody Muhammad had to say when we have four Gospels full of the words of the anointed Messiah of God, announced by Jibril himself? Here's your choice; do what a hairy illiterate nobody Arab killer/bandit said or do what the Messiah of God said. It's a tough choice I know, hairy nobody or Messiah. I'll give you some time to think it over.

Jesus himself was the Messiah. There is no coming of a future Messiah before the end of the world..

[truthsetsufree]

Jesus himself was the Messiah. There is no coming of a future Messiah before the end of the world..

SAM I agree.

The whole idea of the "second coming of christ" came from a mistranslation of the word "coming" in Mathew 24:3- "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" KJV
The greek word that the KJV translates "coming" is PAROUSIA which actually means "Presence"
(You can see that from a simple dictionary search.)

Below is the quote from- http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=YLT
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?"

Also see- http://www.newlifechurchhome.com/SomeGreekWords.html
QUOTED HERE
"PAROUSIA. (3952) This word occurs twenty-four times in the New Testament. It comes
from the verb PAREMI which means "at hand," "to be present." The noun signifies
"Presence." This verb emphasizes the actual personal presence of the one who comes.
"Be patient unto the COMING (presence) of the Lord" (James 5:7). PAROUSIA never
indicates the act of coming or the arrival of a person, but denotes the presence of one
who has already arrived. The Vine's dictionary incorrectly defines Parousia as either
presence or coming. Vine introduced this error to support his strong belief in the pre-trib
rapture doctrine. Compare: I am present, here and now, with - I am coming but I am not
here but will be sometime. These are opposite meanings. Greek is a very precise
language. If the bible says present it means present not I am coming. Parousia can never
be translated as coming or second coming. If the Greek authors of scripture wanted to
say coming they would have used the word ERCHOMAI."


***Christ’s parousia, covers a period of time, in which many things occur. Yes, Jesus does arrive at the beginning of his parousia, his presence as King, and thus remains present. The Greek word parousia means more than just his arrival, since it also includes the things prophesied to happen during his parousia. (we are living during that time now) Matthew 24:7-8,14, Luke 21:10-11***

***His PAROUSIA or "presence" would not be noticed by the vast majority of people.***
Luke 17:20 But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said:“The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, 21 neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’"

Matthew 24:37-39 – For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be

[marduk]

Yup, he's "present" right now protecting Israel from the Evil Ones of Satan, and doing a very good job. Every time the Ishmaelites (the despised of YHWH) attack Israel Jesus rewards them with humiliation. Nice one, Jesus. Before his kingdom is actually in place in Jerusalem, Israel has to destroy Gog and Magog (Syria and Egypt). Syria and Egypt are already in the process of making ready for their destruction. Syria is getting weakened by its own people and isolated from its neighboring Islamic countries due to its brutality being even too much to be palatable to other Muslims. Egypt will form a government which will attack Israel, giving Israel the necessary pretext to destroy them. The Arabs can always be counted on to instigate their own destruction. They're nice that way.

[HomerJay]

The Arabs are pretty pathetic in that regard. I think it has mainly to do with their spending all of their time reciting endless prayers and wasting years of education on "Islamic Studies" doctorates instead of going after PhDs in science and mathematics. The problem is that Muslims follow Mohammed's lead, and Mo didn't put any value in education. He felt all that was needed was the willingness to swing a sword, and in 7th century Arabia that was enough. But not anymore.

[uncung]

‎"There is a polish for everything that takes away rust; and the polish for the heart is the remembrance of Allah." (Bukhari)

‘Aishah reported, “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, ‘Precautions are of no avail against the decree of Allah, but the supplication benefits in the case of a calamity that strikes or is about to strike. And when a calamity descends the supplication intercepts it and holds it at bay until the Day of Resurrection’. (Reported by Al-Bazar, At-Tabrani, and Al-Hakim, who says its chain of authorities is sound)

[SAM]

Jesus himself was the Messiah. There is no coming of a future Messiah before the end of the world..

SAM I agree.

The whole idea of the "second coming of christ" came from a mistranslation of the word "coming" in Mathew 24:3- "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" KJV
The greek word that the KJV translates "coming" is PAROUSIA which actually means "Presence"
(You can see that from a simple dictionary search.)

Spoiler! :

Below is the quote from- http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=YLT
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?"

Also see- http://www.newlifechurchhome.com/SomeGreekWords.html
QUOTED HERE
"PAROUSIA. (3952) This word occurs twenty-four times in the New Testament. It comes
from the verb PAREMI which means "at hand," "to be present." The noun signifies
"Presence." This verb emphasizes the actual personal presence of the one who comes.
"Be patient unto the COMING (presence) of the Lord" (James 5:7). PAROUSIA never
indicates the act of coming or the arrival of a person, but denotes the presence of one
who has already arrived. The Vine's dictionary incorrectly defines Parousia as either
presence or coming. Vine introduced this error to support his strong belief in the pre-trib
rapture doctrine. Compare: I am present, here and now, with - I am coming but I am not
here but will be sometime. These are opposite meanings. Greek is a very precise
language. If the bible says present it means present not I am coming. Parousia can never
be translated as coming or second coming. If the Greek authors of scripture wanted to
say coming they would have used the word ERCHOMAI."


***Christ’s parousia, covers a period of time, in which many things occur. Yes, Jesus does arrive at the beginning of his parousia, his presence as King, and thus remains present. The Greek word parousia means more than just his arrival, since it also includes the things prophesied to happen during his parousia. (we are living during that time now) Matthew 24:7-8,14, Luke 21:10-11***

***His PAROUSIA or "presence" would not be noticed by the vast majority of people.***
Luke 17:20 But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said:“The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, 21 neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’"

Matthew 24:37-39 – For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be

Thank you for this information, useful article should act as eye opener about the coming of the Messiah

[marduk]

‎"There is a polish for everything that takes away rust; and the polish for the heart is the remembrance of Allah." (Bukhari)

‘Aishah reported, “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, ‘Precautions are of no avail against the decree of Allah, but the supplication benefits in the case of a calamity that strikes or is about to strike. And when a calamity descends the supplication intercepts it and holds it at bay until the Day of Resurrection’. (Reported by Al-Bazar, At-Tabrani, and Al-Hakim, who says its chain of authorities is sound)

What's wrong with the supplications to save them from the calamity of Israel being about 1000 times better than them in every way, especially when it comes to war? They don't seem to be working. They've been supplicating since 1947. Ain't workin'. Oh I get it. Allah doesn't see the Jews taking over Israel as a calamity. He sees it as everything going according to plan. The Jews return to Israel, the Evil Ones of Satan provoke Israel to destroy them, Israel does so easily, Jesus establishes his kingdom in Jerusalem, Jesus kills all the Arabs with his laser vision, everybody lives happily ever after. Where's the calamity?

[HomerJay]

You're not thinking like a Muslim. Any victories and apparent superiorities of the Israelis are simply tests of the resolve of the Believers. Think of Israel as a big, fat, rich caravan. When Mohammed started his career attacking caravans and getting repulsed, did he quit and go get an honest job? No sir he did NOT! He got right back up on his camel and kept trying until he WON that booty and slaves and hostages for Islam! Can today's Muslims do any less? I say NO! So get out there and emulate Allah's Apostle!

Man, I should be an imam.

[SAM]

‎"There is a polish for everything that takes away rust; and the polish for the heart is the remembrance of Allah." (Bukhari)

‘Aishah reported, “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, ‘Precautions are of no avail against the decree of Allah, but the supplication benefits in the case of a calamity that strikes or is about to strike. And when a calamity descends the supplication intercepts it and holds it at bay until the Day of Resurrection’. (Reported by Al-Bazar, At-Tabrani, and Al-Hakim, who says its chain of authorities is sound)

What's wrong with the supplications to save them from the calamity of Israel being about 1000 times better than them in every way, especially when it comes to war? They don't seem to be working. They've been supplicating since 1947. Ain't workin'. Oh I get it. Allah doesn't see the Jews taking over Israel as a calamity. He sees it as everything going according to plan. The Jews return to Israel, the Evil Ones of Satan provoke Israel to destroy them, Israel does so easily, Jesus establishes his kingdom in Jerusalem, Jesus kills all the Arabs with his laser vision, everybody lives happily ever after. Where's the calamity?

In the song Ha-Tikvah (The Hope), the anthem of the Zionist movement and the state of Israel. Theodor Herzl and Chaim Weizmann founded Zionism (from the word "Zion"), a political movement dedicated to the creation of a Jewish state (ancient homeland).

Kol od baleivav p'nima As long as deep within the heart
Nefesh Y'hudi homiya The Jewish soul is warm
Ul'fa-atey mizrach kadima And toward the edges of the east
Ayin L'Tziyon tzofiya An eye to Zion looks
Od lo avda tikvateynu Our hope is not yet lost,
Hatikva bat sh'not alpayim The hope of two thousand years
Lih'yot am chofshi b'artzenu To be a free people in our own land
Eretz Tziyon v'yirushalayim. In the land of Zion and Jerusalem.
Lih'yot am chofshi b'artzenu To be a free people in our own land
Eretz Tziyon v'yirushalayim. In the land of Zion and Jerusalem

In the story of Samiri, during temporary absence of Moses (he ascended Sinai), led Israelites to the worship of the golden calf and they followed Samiri's deviations -a path of primary attachment to power and wealth (symbolized by the golden calf). The Israel of today their Israeli government and its hegemony is closer to a golden calf, like Samiri, their spirits are overthrown by their own egos, they are made arrogant by their instrumental, technical, mechanistic knowledge which sees the world as a machine to be manipulated for their own purposes.

(Qur'an 2:92, 93)"...Moses came with piercing knowledge, then in his absence you created the golden calf....And the people were made to imbibe (the love of) the calf into their hearts...."

Shema

Hisham'ru lakhem pen yif'teh l'vav'khem v'sar'tem va'avad'tem Elohim acheirim v'hish'tachavitem lahem

Beware, lest your heart be deceived and you turn and serve other gods and worship them.

V'charah af Adonai bakhem v'atzar et hashamayim v'lo yih'yeh matar v'ha'adamah lo titein et y'vulah

And anger of the Lord will blaze against you, and he will close the heavens and there will not be rain,and the earth will not give you its fullness,

[frankie]

Sam
It would be helpful also if you could give an answer to my claims about the Trinity,

The Trinity of Catholics (Pagan Christians) consisted of these three: Jesus, Mary and Father so there is absolutely nothing wrong with what the Quran states.. As far as I know that Paul did not mention Mary, or for that matter even Joseph at all, and in the gospels, the figure of Mary is almost non-existing. I don't think there's a need to have it explained again. Which has already been refuted an hundred times over, including here on this site and others.

and what the miracle birth of Jesus means to Muslims?

In the Quran says, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]." and "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ]. He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous." She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?"

Muslims love and honor Mary, the Mother of Jesus (not as Mother of God), without a doubt no woman that is given more attention than Maryam. And she is presented as an example to all humankind especially as a woman, an example for women in all aspects of their lives. Her sincerity, piety, purity and devotion to God the Supreme Being are qualities that all Muslims, Christianity and Judaism aspire to. What a contrast with Islam! The Holy Qur'an has a whole chapter named after Mary "Surah Maryam" and she has such a high place as mentioned in the above post. Maryam holds one of the most honored positions in the hearts of Muslims of all times and places.

You appear to take lightly the dealing with aposates,in the Islamic faith.Please explain then,

Who the hell am I on dealing with apostates? Let the God's dealings with them. They have nowhere to go after their death “To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return."

what is the penalty for leaving Islam?

So far as I know, there is no single verse in the Quran itself that prescribes an earthly punishment for apostasy. Conclusion…There is NO capital punishment for apostates?

The Islamic extremists you mention are the true Muslims,fighting in Allahs cause, as set down by the example of their prophet.

Nope! They do not truly Muslims represent the sentiments of the entire Islamic Ummah as a whole. Muhammad fights in the cause of Allah according to the situation during the early Islamic period.

The Muslims that do not put Mohammed's actions into practice,are not following Mohammeds example correctly,probably because they have never read this haddith in Bukhari,and probably because they have just relied upon their Imams ,being "economical with the truth".

I am not interested in Hadith of Bukhari. I am not followers of Bukhari’s. I am a servant of Allah.

Many Muslims have been misled and their thoughts are misguided by imams and their radical Muslim organizations who bend the textuality of the Qur'an to their agenda. ...

Either way the words that are read,in Islamic scripture have been taken as they are written.If they should not to be taken as written,then it has not been made clear enough,either by Allah or by Mohammed.

You need to know that the Biblical texts aren’t like the Quran… many Christians thought that Quran verse parts of it are man-made and with it comes prejudice of that time.

Muhammad said, that the Qur’an (Islamic Scriptures) has an outer meaning and inner meaning, Allah sent down the Qur'an in seven successive layers of inner meaning. Each inner meaning is more useful and more profitable than the one before, because it is a marrow.

All the verses and chapters of the Quran interpretations depend on the individual’s personal belief.

You also need to explain the fighting verses in the Quran,allegedly from Allah commanding Muslims to fight unbelievers,even though they might not like it,2:216,and again in 9:29 These commands,are given to be the literal words from Allah to Muslims, for all times and places remember,not just an historical record.

You see the words “Fighting” “Fight” appears on the two verses. It doesn’t mean fighting (war) as it is generally supposed to be. These two verses have different meanings.

Quran 2:216
Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. Allah Knows, while you know not.

This verse simply describe the principle that whoever wants to live and good and righteous life before the God. They must confess often because, in doing so, or they (a person) must the continual struggle of life is that in worldly life one struggles in another direction or whatever be life's path, if a person proves to be lacking in that power which enables him/her to struggle along, he/she meets nothing but failure. He/she may be a good person, a saintly person, a spiritual person, but that does not count.

see the color

Quran 9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

The verse describes directly to People of the Book/Scriptures and Pharisees. You have to know the differences between ordinary religious people and People of the Book/Scriptures and Pharisees.

Let me tell you the meaning “People of the Book/Scriptures" as describes in Romans 1:28-32

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

SAM

I do not understand what Trinity of Catholics (Pagan Christians) are,but Mary has never been part of the Trinity,in the sense that she is constubstantial (part of the same nature )with the Father.All Chrisitians accept and accepted Mary to be the Mother of God,as Gabriel is recorded in saying to her.

You say Mary is highly regarded by Muslims,who accept the miracle birth,but this begs the question,what is the purpose of her giving birth to this miracle child who is said to be "The Son of the Most High God" who must be named Jesus.Jesus ,therefore is someone who is extra special,and has a mission to complete,by command of His Father in heaven.Why is Jesus a prophet of Islam,when he was foretold to be the Son of the Most High God,who was crucified on a charge of blasphemy,,and rose from the dead.These concepts are totally rejected by Muslims,only because the Quran says so.But the crucifixion of Jesus is a well documented historical event,not just by the Gospels,but by non Christians,i.e.Tacitus,Josephus,Pliny.There is no record of Jesus performing any miracles from the cradle,but it is interesting that the Quran said He did,pointing towards yet again, that Jesus was an extra special person,who consolidated his prophethood by performing miracles.There is in record of Mohammed doing the same.

You say there is no penalty in Islam for apostacy,then the many people that have lost,and are still loosing their lives because of this, have died for no reason.The penalty for leaving Islam has always been death.This is backed up by,Quran 4:89 and Bukhari ,Book 84 Volume 9 Nos.17, 57,58.

It's not what you appear to know SAM,that counts,it's what Islamic scholars have to say, that does.

As pointed out previously,Christians follow the example of their prophet Jesus,who fought a spiritual battle between the forces of good and evil.Although as you say there is a greater and lesser struggle (jihad) for Muslims,Mohammeds jihad was to physically fight unbelievers,as recorded in Bukhari.Bukhari does not differentiate which period of Islamic history,Muslims have to take for their instruction, for emulating their prophet,neither does the Quran,which advocates Muslims to take Mohammed as their example (or role model) as their guide for putting into action Allahs words,for all times and places.If this is not the case,then the Quran is just an historical records of events, not as written,Allahs literal word for all times and places.

This follows on to the fighting verses,9:29 Allah commands Muslims to fight all who do not believe in Allah or his messenger,EVEN if they are Poeple of the Book,NOT just the People of the Book.

There is still no acceptance from you,that the Islamic agenda is to conquer all lands for Allah by the sword, as Mohammed did,until Islam is proclaimed over all religion,and all are brought into submission under Sharia.

Until you accept this,you are still held in a delusional bubble, that the god of Islam is the same as the God of the Christian,when it is more than clear they are not

[junkmaster]

not, it is not. you are wrong. There were many reasons why Allah sent Muhammad SAW as the last prophet.
1) This showed that the revelations from Allah had been completed (Al-Quran).

You are Begging the Question.

2) Denote the sign of the beginning of the Last Day to remind people about the truth.

Doomsday Prophets have been using that con for millennium after millennium, the only sign there is people are suckers.

3) Most people over the world had achieved prosperity and great wisdom and established their believe in true religion.

Yeah the medieval period was known for its prosperity and wisdom thats why medieval is a synonym for old-fashioned, antique, primitive, obsolete, out-of-date, archaic, prehistoric, antiquated, anachronistic, antediluvian, unenlightened. You are hilariously uninformed.

4) There is no more need to sent another prophet as people had gained much knowledge of the truth and can guide others all over the world.

You sure can delude yourself, but not us. Muslims countries sure are known for their knowledge, truth, and guidance. That is why they are so prosperous and wise, right?

All the other Prophets were only sent to a specific nation or race, but Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) was sent for all of mankind.
The Quran is the last and most complete divine revelation and provides guidance for mankind until the Day of Judgement.

Now, it is your duty to study and spread the words of truth to others to remind them over and over again. InshaAllah. Allah will give you His Guidance.

Painful it is to watch your feeble mind running around in circles. I hope one day you can break free from your mental prison.

jm

[SAM]

SAM

I do not understand what Trinity of Catholics (Pagan Christians) are,but Mary has never been part of the Trinity,in the sense that she is constubstantial (part of the same nature )with the Father.

In the Catholic Catechism 841 speaks about Islam.

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

The paragraph states that Islam share the same fate as Christians, implying that because Muslims worship the same God as Christians, they don't need to accept Jesus as Lord and their Savior in order to go to Heaven.

Muslims rejected that this idea found its way into the catechism because it’s not true. There is no salvation for Muslims, or anyone who rejects Jesus.

Christians also rejected John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

And you know that many Protestants disagrees Catholic regarding Mary are: Mother of God. Pls note : Many people and scholars believe that Protestantism and Islam were considered closer to each other than they were to Catholicism, Christianity etc…

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." [Pope Pius IX]

"Sinners receive pardon by the intercession of Mary alone." [St. John Chrysostom]

"No one ever finds Christ but with and through Mary. Whoever seeks Christ apart from Mary seeks Him in vain." [St. Bonaventure]

"All those who seek Mary’s protection will be saved for all eternity." [Pope Benedict XV]

"What will it cost you, oh Mary, to hear our prayer? What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned Queen at the right hand of your son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of hell, and you alone, oh Mary, save us from the hands of Satan." [Pope Pius Xl]

Catechism 971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.

Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God" which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus' Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus' human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

Now you tell me.. When Catholics to give devotion pray and kneel down in front of a statue of her (Mary)…It mean Worship. If not I don't know what you call it.

What do you think of this ...(mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

I repeat again…there is absolutely nothing wrong with what the Quran states..

[b]All Chrisitians accept and accepted Mary to be the Mother of God,as Gabriel is recorded in saying to her.

I do respect the opinions of you and others even if I disagree with you or them... I've appreciated and respected you and other forumer’s willingness to stand up for what they believes in.

You say Mary is highly regarded by Muslims,who accept the miracle birth,but this begs the question,what is the purpose of her giving birth to this miracle child who is said to be "The Son of the Most High God" who must be named Jesus.Jesus ,therefore is someone who is extra special,and has a mission to complete,by command of His Father in heaven.Why is Jesus a prophet of Islam,when he was foretold to be the Son of the Most High God,who was crucified on a charge of blasphemy,,and rose from the dead.These concepts are totally rejected by Muslims,only because the Quran says so.But the crucifixion of Jesus is a well documented historical event,not just by the Gospels,but by non Christians,i.e.Tacitus,Josephus,Pliny.There is no record of Jesus performing any miracles from the cradle,but it is interesting that the Quran said He did,pointing towards yet again, that Jesus was an extra special person,who consolidated his prophethood by performing miracles.There is in record of Mohammed doing the same.

You say there is no penalty in Islam for apostacy,then the many people that have lost,and are still loosing their lives because of this, have died for no reason.The penalty for leaving Islam has always been death.This is backed up by,Quran 4:89 and Bukhari ,Book 84 Volume 9 Nos.17, 57,58.

It's not what you appear to know SAM,that counts,it's what Islamic scholars have to say, that does.

As pointed out previously,Christians follow the example of their prophet Jesus,who fought a spiritual battle between the forces of good and evil.Although as you say there is a greater and lesser struggle (jihad) for Muslims,Mohammeds jihad was to physically fight unbelievers,as recorded in Bukhari.Bukhari does not differentiate which period of Islamic history,Muslims have to take for their instruction, for emulating their prophet,neither does the Quran,which advocates Muslims to take Mohammed as their example (or role model) as their guide for putting into action Allahs words,for all times and places.If this is not the case,then the Quran is just an historical records of events, not as written,Allahs literal word for all times and places.

This follows on to the fighting verses,9:29 Allah commands Muslims to fight all who do not believe in Allah or his messenger,EVEN if they are Poeple of the Book,NOT just the People of the Book.

There is still no acceptance from you,that the Islamic agenda is to conquer all lands for Allah by the sword, as Mohammed did,until Islam is proclaimed over all religion,and all are brought into submission under Sharia.

Until you accept this,you are still held in a delusional bubble, that the god of Islam is the same as the God of the Christian,when it is more than clear they are not

[/quote].....to be continued. Be patient with yourself.

[frankie]

SAM

I do not understand what Trinity of Catholics (Pagan Christians) are,but Mary has never been part of the Trinity,in the sense that she is constubstantial (part of the same nature )with the Father.

In the Catholic Catechism 841 speaks about Islam.

"The paragraph states that Islam share the same fate as Christians, implying that because Muslims worship the same God as Christians, they don't need to accept Jesus as Lord and their Savior in order to go to Heaven.

Muslims rejected that this idea found its way into the catechism because it’s not true. There is no salvation for Muslims, or anyone who rejects Jesus.

Christians also rejected John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

And you know that many Protestants disagrees Catholic regarding Mary are: Mother of God. Pls note : Many people and scholars believe that Protestantism and Islam were considered closer to each other than they were to Catholicism, Christianity etc…

"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." [Pope Pius IX]

"Sinners receive pardon by the intercession of Mary alone." [St. John Chrysostom]

"No one ever finds Christ but with and through Mary. Whoever seeks Christ apart from Mary seeks Him in vain." [St. Bonaventure]

"All those who seek Mary’s protection will be saved for all eternity." [Pope Benedict XV]

"What will it cost you, oh Mary, to hear our prayer? What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned Queen at the right hand of your son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of hell, and you alone, oh Mary, save us from the hands of Satan." [Pope Pius Xl]

Catechism 971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.

Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God" which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus' Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus' human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

Now you tell me.. When Catholics to give devotion pray and kneel down in front of a statue of her (Mary)…It mean Worship. If not I don't know what you call it.

What do you think of this ...(mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

I repeat again…there is absolutely nothing wrong with what the Quran states..

[b]All Chrisitians accept and accepted Mary to be the Mother of God,as Gabriel is recorded in saying to her.

I do respect the opinions of you and others even if I disagree with you or them... I've appreciated and respected you and other forumer’s willingness to stand up for what they believes in.
Appreciated.

You say Mary is highly regarded by Muslims,who accept the miracle birth,but this begs the question,what is the purpose of her giving birth to this miracle child who is said to be "The Son of the Most High God" who must be named Jesus.Jesus ,therefore is someone who is extra special,and has a mission to complete,by command of His Father in heaven.Why is Jesus a prophet of Islam,when he was foretold to be the Son of the Most High God,who was crucified on a charge of blasphemy,,and rose from the dead.These concepts are totally rejected by Muslims,only because the Quran says so.But the crucifixion of Jesus is a well documented historical event,not just by the Gospels,but by non Christians,i.e.Tacitus,Josephus,Pliny.There is no record of Jesus performing any miracles from the cradle,but it is interesting that the Quran said He did,pointing towards yet again, that Jesus was an extra special person,who consolidated his prophethood by performing miracles.There is in record of Mohammed doing the same.

You say there is no penalty in Islam for apostacy,then the many people that have lost,and are still loosing their lives because of this, have died for no reason.The penalty for leaving Islam has always been death.This is backed up by,Quran 4:89 and Bukhari ,Book 84 Volume 9 Nos.17, 57,58.

It's not what you appear to know SAM,that counts,it's what Islamic scholars have to say, that does.

As pointed out previously,Christians follow the example of their prophet Jesus,who fought a spiritual battle between the forces of good and evil.Although as you say there is a greater and lesser struggle (jihad) for Muslims,Mohammeds jihad was to physically fight unbelievers,as recorded in Bukhari.Bukhari does not differentiate which period of Islamic history,Muslims have to take for their instruction, for emulating their prophet,neither does the Quran,which advocates Muslims to take Mohammed as their example (or role model) as their guide for putting into action Allahs words,for all times and places.If this is not the case,then the Quran is just an historical records of events, not as written,Allahs literal word for all times and places.

This follows on to the fighting verses,9:29 Allah commands Muslims to fight all who do not believe in Allah or his messenger,EVEN if they are Poeple of the Book,NOT just the People of the Book.

There is still no acceptance from you,that the Islamic agenda is to conquer all lands for Allah by the sword, as Mohammed did,until Islam is proclaimed over all religion,and all are brought into submission under Sharia.

Until you accept this,you are still held in a delusional bubble, that the god of Islam is the same as the God of the Christian,when it is more than clear they are not

.....to be continued. Be patient with yourself.[/quote]


For the Catholic Catechism to state"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."beggars belief not to have been challenged.The Christian God is Jesus,the second Person of the Trinity,God the Son ,a concept totally rejected by Muslims.The best that this Catechism can say is that Christians and Muslims are brothers and sisters in humanity only,but not in faith.

Although Catholics have a great devotion to Mary,they in no way place her above her son Jesus, who is believed to be the only way in Gods salvation plan.Mary is taken to be an intercessor,people pray to Mary for her to intercede for them, to her son,Jesus.

To call yourself Christian is to accept that Jesus is the Son of God,who died for mankind on the cross,and rose again after three days .It is not about the worship of Mary.

Based upon these fundamental principals,that Jesus is God to a Chrisitian and not a Muslim, gives yet more clear evidence that Allah is not the same god,and never has been.

Will be off line for several day,can continue when able to.

[uncung]

Frankie, my sister in law, its good we have people like you. Not only you advertising Islam, you provide free historical lessons. thanks for your hard work.

Question.. do you believe all these as historical facts? If you do then how about the rest? According to a non muslim the prophet rank top as the best man ever set foot on this earth. What do you have to say that?

[Ram]

Frankie, my sister in law, its good we have people like you. Not only you advertising Islam, you provide free historical lessons. thanks for your hard work.

Question.. do you believe all these as historical facts? If you do then how about the rest? According to a non muslim the prophet rank top as the best man ever set foot on this earth. What do you have to say that?

Muhammad was the best man is not a fact, it is an opinion. Many historians have the opinion that Muhammad was an evil man, therfore, I say that it is a fact that Muhammad was the worst man.

But whatever you say, the history proves that Muhammad was evil.

[HomerJay]

According to a non muslim the prophet rank top as the best man ever set foot on this earth. What do you have to say that?

According to a non-Muslim (by friend Bob), Mohammed was a Martian doing field research into human gullibility. What do you have to say that?
Wait a minute. They can't BOTH be right...

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