are there good things about Muhammad?

[frankie]

I stand by what is said,that Muslims have been,and are still being deceived into believing they worship the same God of the Jews and Christians.

Can you elaborate further.[/quote]

SAM:
See my last post to you on this thread.

[uncung]

@Frankie, dear my sister in law, quran is same as its arabic letters for 1400 years dear. You are free to learn arabic and compare with its translation
Of course there could be minor translation differences between versions in English but the meaning should be same.

[SAM]

SAM:
See my last post to you on this thread.

SAM:
The Quran is full of confirmations,to list but a few:

Surah 10:94,advising Muslims in doubt to "ask those who have been reading the Book from Lord".

So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

Scriptures of the People of the Book which are with the People of the Book have not abrogated or textually corrupted.

Surah 3:55 Allah makes those who "follow Jesus superior to those who reject faith,to the Day of Resurrection"

[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

The verse directly to foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc..

Surah:5:43 saying "why do the Jews have to come to Muslims for decision,when they have their own Law before them...."

But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah ? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.

The verse directly to foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc..

Surah5:44 Confiming the Law given to Moses was guidence and light.

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

The verse directly to foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc..

Surah5:46 Jesus was sent confirming the Law that had come before Him, a guidence.......

And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.

Scriptures of the People of the Book which are with the People of the Book have not abrogated or textually corrupted.

Surah:5:48 To you we sent the Scripture in truth,confirming the scripture that came before it,and guarding it in safety

And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.

For those people disputes about the interpretation of the Qur'anic of Allah (His Religion of Islamic)....

[frankie]

SAM:
See my last post to you on this thread.[/quote]

SAM:
The Quran is full of confirmations,to list but a few:

Surah 10:94,advising Muslims in doubt to "ask those who have been reading the Book from Lord".

So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

Scriptures of the People of the Book which are with the People of the Book have not abrogated or textually corrupted.

Surah 3:55 Allah makes those who "follow Jesus superior to those who reject faith,to the Day of Resurrection"

[Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

The verse directly to foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc..

Surah:5:43 saying "why do the Jews have to come to Muslims for decision,when they have their own Law before them...."

But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah ? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.

The verse directly to foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc..

Surah5:44 Confiming the Law given to Moses was guidence and light.

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

The verse directly to foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc..

Surah5:46 Jesus was sent confirming the Law that had come before Him, a guidence.......

And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.

Scriptures of the People of the Book which are with the People of the Book have not abrogated or textually corrupted.

Surah:5:48 To you we sent the Scripture in truth,confirming the scripture that came before it,and guarding it in safety

And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.

For those people disputes about the interpretation of the Qur'anic of Allah (His Religion of Islamic)....[/quote]

Sam
Your post indicates you have listened to your teachers far too easily,and not reasoned things out for yourself.Unfortunately this sad trait is found all too often in the Muslim world,where the ability and will to question your teachings is so frowned upon,as you may loose your faith, even threatening you with hellfire if you do so.You are then held in this straitjacket of fear for all of your life.

As a Muslim you have been told, that the Jews are only marginally worse than the other Peoples of the Book.This is most distinct in your reply,by calling them foolish and stubborn.

This kind of language colours your way of thinking towards your fellow man,and indeed, plants the seed of hatred,from your birth onwards,to last your entire life.You see the Jewish people as ones to pour scorn upon,as they wilfully refused to submit, to this new religion of Mohammeds.Preferring death,than to submit to this false prophet's god.So much for "no compulsion in religion".

Although you have been told that Bible scripture has been as you say, "textually corrupted",not one scap of evidence can you,or any of your co-religionists can bring forward to support this claim.When and how were these scriptures corrupted,and by whom.Silence.

The ways of Allah then, are definately not the way the God of the Jew or Christian works.This God works in a completely different way, and has different objectives to that of the Islamic Allah.The basis of Yahwehs ways are love.Mankind is called to have a spirit of love towards his fellow man,not the hatred and division that spills out from the scripture of Allah.The difference between the Gospel and Quranic teachings is very marked,as is the difference between the ways and example of two said prophets.It could not be more obvious ,that both teachings come from two different sources.

The end product of each teaching,i.e.the humans following them therefore have two very different mindsets towards their fellow man.A Muslim will kill you for criticizing his teachings and prophet,a Christian or Jew will pray for you.

[uncung]

why p muhammad? because he brought the final and perfected message, Holy Quran which God said can never be corrupted because Allah protects it (unlike the Torah and Bible which were already corrupted by man). So he was going to be the final messenger to bring revelations. No need for more, we have the Quran.

He grown up in society where sins were norms of life, like people used to bury their baby girl to avoid future responsibilities, idol worshiping was at its heights.
He started meditation to boost his thinking process, and to find possible solutions.
God Almighty responded and started revealing Noble Qura'n.
Prophet Muhammad received first revelation in same cave, naturally as Humble Human being he Scared first time but Holy Angle Gabriel prepared him for revelations.

take care buddy,

[sum]

Hello uncung

Your quote -
(unlike the Torah and Bible which were already corrupted by man).

Have you ever read the whole of the Koran? If you have please get it into your thick indoctrinated skull that your fictitious Allah actually confirmed the previous scriptures. He would not have confirmed them if they were corrupted, would he?

sum

[SAM]

Sam
Your post indicates you have listened to your teachers far too easily,and not reasoned things out for yourself.

My teacher had taught me nothing not a single word about Islamic's teaching...I should learn from God.

Unfortunately this sad trait is found all too often in the Muslim world,

Can be found in other religions as well especially Christianity..

where the ability and will to question your teachings is so frowned upon,

It never happens to me..

as you may loose your faith,

I have had a strong spiritual foundation and will not cause my faith levels to decrease over time

even threatening you with hellfire if you do so.

No one dares threatening me...there is NO hellfire after death

You are then held in this straitjacket of fear for all of your life.

I have been through this kind of situation and I got nothing in life is to be feared..

As a Muslim you have been told, that the Jews are only marginally worse than the other Peoples of the Book.

You're right, but that was when I was student and young. But now I don't hate the Israelites...

This is most distinct in your reply,by calling them foolish and stubborn.

..."foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc.."

True Israelites are not Jews. ..Jews is the legitimatize code ordained by Allah for all mankind include Muslims as well…And it doesn’t matter whether you are Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhist etc… in any one of you a wicked heart of unbelief, in turning away from God is considered as Jew too...

This kind of language colours your way of thinking towards your fellow man,and indeed, plants the seed of hatred,from your birth onwards,to last your entire life.

You're totally wrong... they Jews make themselves become hateful towards all humans in general. They thought they were God's chosen people and can do whatever they want.. Jews have been killed by Christians since biblical times before Islam came along.

You see the Jewish people as ones to pour scorn upon,as they wilfully refused to submit, to this new religion of Mohammeds.Preferring death,than to submit to this false prophet's god.So much for "no compulsion in religion".

Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse 15: "The Lord, your God, will raise up for you a Prophet, like me," Moses is saying, "like me, from your midst, from your brethren; him you shall hear."

They refused to accept Mohammad as their prophet because he was not Jewish, he was not from the people of Israel. Even though Jesus he is from the Israelis, from their brethren they rejected the teachings of Jesus too . Tell me, Why the Jews rejected Jesus

Although you have been told that Bible scripture has been as you say, "textually corrupted",not one scap of evidence can you,or any of your co-religionists can bring forward to support this claim.When and how were these scriptures corrupted,and by whom.Silence.

Paul of Tasarus , who was Jewish.

The ways of Allah then, are definitely not the way the God of the Jew or Christian works.This God works in a completely different way, and has different objectives to that of the Islamic Allah.

You're right..Allah and God works in a completely different way and has different objectives. This is why...There is NO God except for the Allah alone..

The basis of Yahwehs ways are love.Mankind is called to have a spirit of love towards his fellow man,not the hatred and division that spills out from the scripture of Allah.

Then why so many Palestinians have been killed by God (Yahweh) of the Jew...

The difference between the Gospel and Quranic teachings is very marked,as is the difference between the ways and example of two said prophets.It could not be more obvious ,that both teachings come from two different sources.

Incorrect...all teachings came from one (a single) sources. Allah Himself

The end product of each teaching,i.e.the humans following them therefore have two very different mindsets towards their fellow man.A Muslim will kill you for criticizing his teachings and prophet,a Christian or Jew will pray for you.

So far not a single Muslim will dare touch me for criticizing Islamic teachings and Muhammad.

[Ozes]

I think Muslims only threaten you when you start to understand Mohammed was a dirty pedophile. And to your question on Palestinians getting killed: Its called selfdefence. Its not Israel who teaches its children via sesamestreet to hate another race of people.

Question to topic title remains: Nope.

[uncung]

sister, you're just making things worse. Is that what you want? Do you want to be a narrow minded bigot, always putting down Christians, Muslims, and other people of faith? Do you even care about the truth? Do you even care about sensitivity, fairness, and tolerance?

I believe them and I believe Muhammad was a wise and compassionate man inspired by God.

Life is not a quiz program where one believer gets the grand prize and another is cast into the fire. God loves all who have faith in him, and certainly Muhammad had great faith.

As opposed to Christians justifying God killing every man, women and child on the face of the earth except for a handful of chose survivors?

[frankie]

Sam
Your post indicates you have listened to your teachers far too easily,and not reasoned things out for yourself.

My teacher had taught me nothing not a single word about Islamic's teaching...I should learn from God.

Unfortunately this sad trait is found all too often in the Muslim world,

Can be found in other religions as well especially Christianity..

where the ability and will to question your teachings is so frowned upon,

It never happens to me..

as you may loose your faith,

I have had a strong spiritual foundation and will not cause my faith levels to decrease over time

even threatening you with hellfire if you do so.

No one dares threatening me...there is NO hellfire after death

You are then held in this straitjacket of fear for all of your life.

I have been through this kind of situation and I got nothing in life is to be feared..

As a Muslim you have been told, that the Jews are only marginally worse than the other Peoples of the Book.

You're right, but that was when I was student and young. But now I don't hate the Israelites...

This is most distinct in your reply,by calling them foolish and stubborn.

..."foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc.."

True Israelites are not Jews. ..Jews is the legitimatize code ordained by Allah for all mankind include Muslims as well…And it doesn’t matter whether you are Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhist etc… in any one of you a wicked heart of unbelief, in turning away from God is considered as Jew too...

This kind of language colours your way of thinking towards your fellow man,and indeed, plants the seed of hatred,from your birth onwards,to last your entire life.

You're totally wrong... they Jews make themselves become hateful towards all humans in general. They thought they were God's chosen people and can do whatever they want.. Jews have been killed by Christians since biblical times before Islam came along.

You see the Jewish people as ones to pour scorn upon,as they wilfully refused to submit, to this new religion of Mohammeds.Preferring death,than to submit to this false prophet's god.So much for "no compulsion in religion".

Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse 15: "The Lord, your God, will raise up for you a Prophet, like me," Moses is saying, "like me, from your midst, from your brethren; him you shall hear."

They refused to accept Mohammad as their prophet because he was not Jewish, he was not from the people of Israel. Even though Jesus he is from the Israelis, from their brethren they rejected the teachings of Jesus too . Tell me, Why the Jews rejected Jesus

Although you have been told that Bible scripture has been as you say, "textually corrupted",not one scap of evidence can you,or any of your co-religionists can bring forward to support this claim.When and how were these scriptures corrupted,and by whom.Silence.

Paul of Tasarus , who was Jewish.

The ways of Allah then, are definitely not the way the God of the Jew or Christian works.This God works in a completely different way, and has different objectives to that of the Islamic Allah.

You're right..Allah and God works in a completely different way and has different objectives. This is why...There is NO God except for the Allah alone..

The basis of Yahwehs ways are love.Mankind is called to have a spirit of love towards his fellow man,not the hatred and division that spills out from the scripture of Allah.

Then why so many Palestinians have been killed by God (Yahweh) of the Jew...

The difference between the Gospel and Quranic teachings is very marked,as is the difference between the ways and example of two said prophets.It could not be more obvious ,that both teachings come from two different sources.

Incorrect...all teachings came from one (a single) sources. Allah Himself

The end product of each teaching,i.e.the humans following them therefore have two very different mindsets towards their fellow man.A Muslim will kill you for criticizing his teachings and prophet,a Christian or Jew will pray for you.

So far not a single Muslim will dare touch me for criticizing Islamic teachings and Muhammad.

Sam
Your post indicates you have listened to your teachers far too easily,and not reasoned things out for yourself.[/quote]My teacher had taught me nothing not a single word about Islamic's teaching...I should learn from God.

Unfortunately this sad trait is found all too often in the Muslim world,

Can be found in other religions as well especially Christianity..

where the ability and will to question your teachings is so frowned upon,

It never happens to me..

as you may loose your faith,

I have had a strong spiritual foundation and will not cause my faith levels to decrease over time

even threatening you with hellfire if you do so.

No one dares threatening me...there is NO hellfire after death

You are then held in this straitjacket of fear for all of your life.

I have been through this kind of situation and I got nothing in life is to be feared..

As a Muslim you have been told, that the Jews are only marginally worse than the other Peoples of the Book.

You're right, but that was when I was student and young. But now I don't hate the Israelites...

This is most distinct in your reply,by calling them foolish and stubborn.

..."foolish stubbornness Jewish among the Israelites ie; People of the Book/Scriptures etc.."

True Israelites are not Jews. ..Jews is the legitimatize code ordained by Allah for all mankind include Muslims as well…And it doesn’t matter whether you are Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhist etc… in any one of you a wicked heart of unbelief, in turning away from God is considered as Jew too...

This kind of language colours your way of thinking towards your fellow man,and indeed, plants the seed of hatred,from your birth onwards,to last your entire life.

You're totally wrong... they Jews make themselves become hateful towards all humans in general. They thought they were God's chosen people and can do whatever they want.. Jews have been killed by Christians since biblical times before Islam came along.

You see the Jewish people as ones to pour scorn upon,as they wilfully refused to submit, to this new religion of Mohammeds.Preferring death,than to submit to this false prophet's god.So much for "no compulsion in religion".

Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse 15: "The Lord, your God, will raise up for you a Prophet, like me," Moses is saying, "like me, from your midst, from your brethren; him you shall hear."

They refused to accept Mohammad as their prophet because he was not Jewish, he was not from the people of Israel. Even though Jesus he is from the Israelis, from their brethren they rejected the teachings of Jesus too . Tell me, Why the Jews rejected Jesus

Although you have been told that Bible scripture has been as you say, "textually corrupted",not one scap of evidence can you,or any of your co-religionists can bring forward to support this claim.When and how were these scriptures corrupted,and by whom.Silence.

Paul of Tasarus , who was Jewish.

The ways of Allah then, are definitely not the way the God of the Jew or Christian works.This God works in a completely different way, and has different objectives to that of the Islamic Allah.

You're right..Allah and God works in a completely different way and has different objectives. This is why...There is NO God except for the Allah alone..

The basis of Yahwehs ways are love.Mankind is called to have a spirit of love towards his fellow man,not the hatred and division that spills out from the scripture of Allah.

Then why so many Palestinians have been killed by God (Yahweh) of the Jew...

The difference between the Gospel and Quranic teachings is very marked,as is the difference between the ways and example of two said prophets.It could not be more obvious ,that both teachings come from two different sources.

Incorrect...all teachings came from one (a single) sources. Allah Himself

The end product of each teaching,i.e.the humans following them therefore have two very different mindsets towards their fellow man.A Muslim will kill you for criticizing his teachings and prophet,a Christian or Jew will pray for you.

So far not a single Muslim will dare touch me for criticizing Islamic teachings and Muhammad.[/quote]


SAM;
You say that Christians have the same trait as Muslims,to be in fear when questioning their faith.This is not true,a Christian is free to question his own, and any other religion he chooses,he is free to accept or reject the Gospel with no conditions attached.He will certainly not be murdered for rejecting his faith,not so in the case of the Muslim.

You said "Jews make themselves become hateful towards all humans in general"I find this statement justifys my position,when I say that Islamic teachings make Muslims view this part of humanity in a hateful way.All humans have failings,but to pick on one sect i.e.the Jews,especially within a "religious" setting is highly detrimental to the peaceful co-existance of humanity in general.ThIs is what Islamic teachings bring to the Muslim mindset,to view the Jewish people as ones to be hated,for all times and places.Frightening!

The prophet Moses is talking about is not Mohammed,it is Jesus.The Jews rejected Mohammed as a true prophet because he did not meet the criteria for being one, i.e.he did not come from Hebrew heritage(my bretheren),he did not perform miracles,Mohammed was so incensed that he was being rejected,that so many Jews (and others) were executed under his orders.It's all in the Quran and haddith,you don't need to take my word for it.

You agree then that Yahweh and Allah are not the same divine entity,but this poses a great problem.The Quran claims that it confirms the scripture before it,it speaks highly of Jesus,(ans all other Biblical prophets) and His mother Mary,claiming his prophethood and miraculous birth.It says the people that follow Jesus are superior to those who reject faith.The Quran rejects Jesus's divinity,even though the same alleged angel Gabriel announced to Mary, Jesus would be called the Son of God.All these concepts the Quran rejects, but are accepted and believed by Christians.
The Jews rejected Jesus, and sentenced him do death, mainly because He claimed to be God,and because he told the truth about the teachers of the Law,laying heavy burdens on the faithful,whilst not practicing what they preached.Jesus said Gods Laws are based on Love between God and neighbour.

Did Allah change his mind,and make a huge u turn? Because that is what is being implied here.You cannot have an all powerful,all knowing God,having a split personality,giving diametrically opposing messages to mankind.Christians follow the teachings of Jesus,which tell them to "love one another,as I have loved you"Christians do not have a divine mandate to kill,and conquer lands in the name of their God.They are fighting a spiritual combat between the forces of good and evil.This is in complete contrast to what a Muslim is instructed to do.He is ordered to "fight in the way of Allah,until Islam is proclaimed over all religion.Just as Jesus is a Christians role model,so too, is Mohammed a Muslims role model. How did Mohammed further the cause of Islam,and how did he instruct his followers to do the same?When you answer this question,it is more than obvious that the God of the Bible,is not the god of Islam.

The question about Saul of Tarsus,who became known as Paul.Agreed that Paul was a Jew,and also a Roman citizen.He was a persecutor of Christians before his conversion to follow Jesus.His way of life then changed for the better.
His letters to his countrymen,did in no way oppose or corrupt the teachings of Jesus.They consolidated them.Reading these letters,will give further insight, and a deeper understanding.

[SAM]

Sam
Your post indicates you have listened to your teachers far too easily,and not reasoned things out for yourself.

I know you could hardly believe it when I said..."My teacher had taught me nothing not a single word about Islamic's teaching...I should learn from God".

You wrote at other thread .." What convinced you that Islam is true?.."
I said, To know the truth of Islam.... get rid of unwanted thoughts..what I mean erased all knowledge of Islam doctrine in our mind or life's..
I know you have difficulty and unable to understand my reply/answer.

SAM;
You say that Christians have the same trait as Muslims,to be in fear when questioning their faith.This is not true,a Christian is free to question his own, and any other religion he chooses,he is free to accept or reject the Gospel with no conditions attached.He will certainly not be murdered for rejecting his faith,not so in the case of the Muslim.

I have rejected the teachings of Islam doctrines before... and nothing ever happened to me after rejecting my faith. And pls don't forget earlier in history the Spanish Inquisition persecution of Galileo, Joan of Arc, and the Conquistadors "the acts of genocide by the millions people"

You said "Jews make themselves become hateful towards all humans in general"I find this statement justifys my position,when I say that Islamic teachings make Muslims view this part of humanity in a hateful way.All humans have failings,but to pick on one sect i.e.the Jews,especially within a "religious" setting is highly detrimental to the peaceful co-existance of humanity in general.[/b]Frightening!

I repeat again and again...you still have a difficulty to understand and pls have to look carefully at the bounce reply/answer you receive from me.

True Israelites are not Jews. ..Jews is the legitimatize code ordained by Allah for all mankind include Muslims as well…And it doesn’t matter whether you are Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhist etc… in any one of you a wicked heart of unbelief, in turning away from God is considered as Jew too...

Jew means Al-Yahud and Al-Yahud literal meaning wicked hearts in Arabic...[their tongue utters what their wicked hearts have devised)

ThIs is what Islamic teachings bring to the Muslim mindset,to view the Jewish people as ones to be hated,for all times and places

Put the blame on radical Muslim clerics..not Islamic teachings.

The prophet Moses is talking about is not Mohammed,it is Jesus.The Jews rejected Mohammed as a true prophet because he did not meet the criteria for being one, i.e.he did not come from Hebrew heritage(my bretheren),he did not perform miracles,Mohammed was so incensed that he was being rejected,that so many Jews (and others) were executed under his orders.It's all in the Quran and haddith,you don't need to take my word for it..

Hopefully you don't make up the story.... give me of really reliable sources..

You agree then that Yahweh and Allah are not the same divine entity,but this poses a great problem.

Yahweh, Allah, God and whatever name we call the Almighty..is the same divine entity... I no need to cite the verse and a brief over view.

The Quran claims that it confirms the scripture before it,it speaks highly of Jesus,(ans all other Biblical prophets) and His mother Mary,claiming his prophethood and miraculous birth.It says the people that follow Jesus are superior to those who reject faith.

True no objection.. all the problems arose because Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit... from my personal point of view NOT all the text of the Bible has been corrupted. I still use plenty of reference tools and resources to improve my general religious knowledge.

The Quran rejects Jesus's divinity,even though the same alleged angel Gabriel announced to Mary, Jesus would be called the Son of God.All these concepts the Quran rejects, but are accepted and believed by Christians.

Jesus was also called "Son of David" and also "Son of Man" They Jewish also rejected the idea of Jesus being the "Son of God" in any physical sense as strongly as the Muslim does...Christians have the right to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God...

The Jews rejected Jesus, and sentenced him do death, mainly because He claimed to be God,and because he told the truth about the teachers of the Law,laying heavy burdens on the faithful,whilst not practicing what they preached.Jesus said Gods Laws are based on Love between God and neighbour.

I have no objection

Did Allah change his mind,and make a huge u turn? Because that is what is being implied here.

You pretty damn funny...Allah makes no mistakes

You cannot have an all powerful,all knowing God,having a split personality,giving diametrically opposing messages to mankind.Christians follow the teachings of Jesus, which tell them to "love one another,as I have loved you"Christians do not have a divine mandate to kill,and conquer lands in the name of their God.They are fighting a spiritual combat between the forces of good and evil.This is in complete contrast to what a Muslim is instructed to do.He is ordered to "fight in the way of Allah,until Islam is proclaimed over all religion.Just as Jesus is a Christians role model,so too, is Mohammed a Muslims role model. How did Mohammed further the cause of Islam,and how did he instruct his followers to do the same?When you answer this question,it is more than obvious that the God of the Bible,is not the god of Islam.

Put the blame on radical Muslim clerics..not Muhammad's Islamic teachings...

The question about Saul of Tarsus,who became known as Paul.Agreed that Paul was a Jew,and also a Roman citizen.He was a persecutor of Christians before his conversion to follow Jesus.His way of life then changed for the better.
His letters to his countrymen,did in no way oppose or corrupt the teachings of Jesus.They consolidated them.Reading these letters,will give further insight, and a deeper understanding.

Take a look back at my past debate viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2691&hilit=moses+jesus+muhammad&start=100

[frankie]

Sam
Your post indicates you have listened to your teachers far too easily,and not reasoned things out for yourself.

I know you could hardly believe it when I said..."My teacher had taught me nothing not a single word about Islamic's teaching...I should learn from God".

You wrote at other thread .." What convinced you that Islam is true?.."
I said, To know the truth of Islam.... get rid of unwanted thoughts..what I mean erased all knowledge of Islam doctrine in our mind or life's..
I know you have difficulty and unable to understand my reply/answer.

SAM;
You say that Christians have the same trait as Muslims,to be in fear when questioning their faith.This is not true,a Christian is free to question his own, and any other religion he chooses,he is free to accept or reject the Gospel with no conditions attached.He will certainly not be murdered for rejecting his faith,not so in the case of the Muslim.

I have rejected the teachings of Islam doctrines before... and nothing ever happened to me after rejecting my faith. And pls don't forget earlier in history the Spanish Inquisition persecution of Galileo, Joan of Arc, and the Conquistadors "the acts of genocide by the millions people"

You said "Jews make themselves become hateful towards all humans in general"I find this statement justifys my position,when I say that Islamic teachings make Muslims view this part of humanity in a hateful way.All humans have failings,but to pick on one sect i.e.the Jews,especially within a "religious" setting is highly detrimental to the peaceful co-existance of humanity in general.[/b]Frightening!

I repeat again and again...you still have a difficulty to understand and pls have to look carefully at the bounce reply/answer you receive from me.

True Israelites are not Jews. ..Jews is the legitimatize code ordained by Allah for all mankind include Muslims as well…And it doesn’t matter whether you are Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhist etc… in any one of you a wicked heart of unbelief, in turning away from God is considered as Jew too...

Jew means Al-Yahud and Al-Yahud literal meaning wicked hearts in Arabic...[their tongue utters what their wicked hearts have devised)

ThIs is what Islamic teachings bring to the Muslim mindset,to view the Jewish people as ones to be hated,for all times and places

Put the blame on radical Muslim clerics..not Islamic teachings.

The prophet Moses is talking about is not Mohammed,it is Jesus.The Jews rejected Mohammed as a true prophet because he did not meet the criteria for being one, i.e.he did not come from Hebrew heritage(my bretheren),he did not perform miracles,Mohammed was so incensed that he was being rejected,that so many Jews (and others) were executed under his orders.It's all in the Quran and haddith,you don't need to take my word for it..

Hopefully you don't make up the story.... give me of really reliable sources..

You agree then that Yahweh and Allah are not the same divine entity,but this poses a great problem.

Yahweh, Allah, God and whatever name we call the Almighty..is the same divine entity... I no need to cite the verse and a brief over view.

The Quran claims that it confirms the scripture before it,it speaks highly of Jesus,(ans all other Biblical prophets) and His mother Mary,claiming his prophethood and miraculous birth.It says the people that follow Jesus are superior to those who reject faith.

True no objection.. all the problems arose because Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit... from my personal point of view NOT all the text of the Bible has been corrupted. I still use plenty of reference tools and resources to improve my general religious knowledge.

The Quran rejects Jesus's divinity,even though the same alleged angel Gabriel announced to Mary, Jesus would be called the Son of God.All these concepts the Quran rejects, but are accepted and believed by Christians.

Jesus was also called "Son of David" and also "Son of Man" They Jewish also rejected the idea of Jesus being the "Son of God" in any physical sense as strongly as the Muslim does...Christians have the right to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God...

The Jews rejected Jesus, and sentenced him do death, mainly because He claimed to be God,and because he told the truth about the teachers of the Law,laying heavy burdens on the faithful,whilst not practicing what they preached.Jesus said Gods Laws are based on Love between God and neighbour.

I have no objection

Did Allah change his mind,and make a huge u turn? Because that is what is being implied here.

You pretty damn funny...Allah makes no mistakes

You cannot have an all powerful,all knowing God,having a split personality,giving diametrically opposing messages to mankind.Christians follow the teachings of Jesus, which tell them to "love one another,as I have loved you"Christians do not have a divine mandate to kill,and conquer lands in the name of their God.They are fighting a spiritual combat between the forces of good and evil.This is in complete contrast to what a Muslim is instructed to do.He is ordered to "fight in the way of Allah,until Islam is proclaimed over all religion.Just as Jesus is a Christians role model,so too, is Mohammed a Muslims role model. How did Mohammed further the cause of Islam,and how did he instruct his followers to do the same?When you answer this question,it is more than obvious that the God of the Bible,is not the god of Islam.

Put the blame on radical Muslim clerics..not Muhammad's Islamic teachings...

The question about Saul of Tarsus,who became known as Paul.Agreed that Paul was a Jew,and also a Roman citizen.He was a persecutor of Christians before his conversion to follow Jesus.His way of life then changed for the better.
His letters to his countrymen,did in no way oppose or corrupt the teachings of Jesus.They consolidated them.Reading these letters,will give further insight, and a deeper understanding.

Take a look back at my past debate viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2691&hilit=moses+jesus+muhammad&start=100

Whilst I would agree that people were killed in the name of Christianity,they had no divine right to do so.Conversely, Muslims are ordered to physically fight in the name of Allah,just as Mohammed did.See Bukhari Book 52 Volume 4 numbers 41 onwards.

You may have been left in peace concerning your stance on the Islamic faith,but the Islamic way is to either at best, ostracize its faithful,or at worst kill them for rejecting Islam.As Mohammed said in Bukhari Book 84 Voume 9 number 57 "Whoever changed his Islamic religion,kill him."

It matters not to me what the name Jew signifies,but what does concern me is on how Jews are portrayed in Islamic scripture,thereby making Muslims view their fellow humans in a very dark light.

The question on the Trinity.The Quran mis-takenly equates Mary the mother of Jesus as part of this Trinity,which is totally untrue.Because Mohammed had only a limited knowledge of Christianity,he assumed this fallacy to be fact.Christianity believes the Trinity to be a special relationship between,God the Father,Son and Holy Spirit.If has nothing to do with anything physical,but is spiritual.Muslims agree that Jesus' birth was miraculous,but what exactly does that mean to a Muslim?

5:116 in the Quran is in error,this error is yet another fundamental reason why Allah is not the same as the Christian God.

Unfortunately,the conclusion has to be that Allah does make mistakes.

It's futile putting the blame on"radical Muslim clerics"and not on Islamic teachings.Islamic teachings reflect the life of 7th century Arabia,and the barbarity that comes with it.The sunnah of Mohammed gives Muslims all they need to know on how their prophet furthered the cause of the Islamic agenda,and how his followers are expected to do the same.

[uncung]

frency, whichever religion is hated the most... does the fact that it's the most hated make it "the Truth".

[HomerJay]

You pretty damn funny...Allah makes no mistakes

You're right in the sense that an omnipotent being cannot make mistakes. But when mistakes and contradictions are attributed to "Allah", you have to question whether or not the guy you've been reading about IS the Almighty. Your mindset is typical of so many Muslims. You cannot even begin to question anything that threatens "truths" you were conditioned with early in life. Evidence can be laid at your feet and arguments stated clearly and with perfect scriptural backing, and you will immediately balk if the proposition includes anything that criticizes the perfection of Mohammed or Allah.

Did it ever occur to you to not take these "truths" as self-evident? To put them to the test of logic and human decency? TEST these beliefs of yours. If Mohammed/Allah said and did things that were imperfect or immortal or just plain in error, then you need to adjust your hypothesis about the universe. Without absolute evidence all religions rely on faith, or to put it another way - they are theories. If an honest appraisal of the evidence does not support your theory, you need to adjust or reject it.

You remind me of the Youtube video of the Muslim arguing that the Earth is flat. Any scientific "evidence" presented to him is rejected with impatience and anger. He states categorically and repeatedly the TRUTH of the Quran, and maintains that everything is secondary to those words on those pages.

Your reasoning is as unassailable as it is circular.
The Quran is perfect.
How do you know that?
It says so in the Quran.
(End of conversation).

-

[SAM]

Whilst I would agree that people were killed in the name of Christianity,they had no divine right to do so.Conversely, Muslims are ordered to physically fight in the name of Allah,just as Mohammed did.See Bukhari Book 52 Volume 4 numbers 41 onwards.

Can you comprehend the understanding of meaning "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."

You may have been left in peace concerning your stance on the Islamic faith,but the Islamic way is to either at best, ostracize its faithful,or at worst kill them for rejecting Islam.As Mohammed said in Bukhari Book 84 Voume 9 number 57 "Whoever changed his Islamic religion,kill him."

"If I was in his (Ali's) shoes, .. I will do the same thing to them (during the early period of Islam). And I don't think that you know which one is real/genuine apostate. Btw, I will not dealing with a low-quality apostate..

It matters not to me what the name Jew signifies,but what does concern me is on how Jews are portrayed in Islamic scripture,thereby making Muslims view their fellow humans in a very dark light.

It doesn’t matter to you “what is the significative of the name "Jew" then that's your problem, not mine.

The question on the Trinity.The Quran mis-takenly equates Mary the mother of Jesus as part of this Trinity,which is totally untrue.Because Mohammed had only a limited knowledge of Christianity,he assumed this fallacy to be fact.Christianity believes the Trinity to be a special relationship between,God the Father,Son and Holy Spirit.If has nothing to do with anything physical,but is spiritual.Muslims agree that Jesus' birth was miraculous,but what exactly does that mean to a Muslim?

I disagree that “Mohammed had only a limited knowledge of Christianity”. You didn't know him ‘personally’ at all.

5:116 in the Quran is in error,this error is yet another fundamental reason why Allah is not the same as the Christian God.

Unfortunately,the conclusion has to be that Allah does make mistakes.

Allah makes no mistake about this verse. I suggest you take your quarrel, arguments etc to Allah. I believe He will be very happy to deal with you.

It's futile putting the blame on"radical Muslim clerics"and not on Islamic teachings.Islamic teachings reflect the life of 7th century Arabia,and the barbarity that comes with it.The sunnah of Mohammed gives Muslims all they need to know on how their prophet furthered the cause of the Islamic agenda,and how his followers are expected to do the same.

There are almost 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide. Do you think Muslims having incorrect beliefs about their own Islamic teachings? Only the small portion/number of Islamic extremists that feel they are supposed to kill anyone who does not completely agree with them makes the whole of Islam look very bad.

[HomerJay]

Can you comprehend the understanding of meaning "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."

And and can you comprehend that it is wrong to raid innocent merchant caravans, even it it's justified as jihad or "Allah's Cause"?
Is EVERY action permissible to you if you say it's in Allah's Cause?

[yeezevee]

Mesmorial, could you tell us what you think about the main criticisms on historical Muhammed?
How low of a human being is he according to you?

For an easy list on muhammed's deeds recorded by hadith, check out " Muhammed: Monster in history" on the main page...

We have explored te life of Muhammad innumerable times in FFI Ozes..

Let us educate the readers about Prophet Muhammad ...

How Do The Muslim Intellectuals Defend Mr. Mohammad?

why is belief in Mohammad's prophet hood necessary in Islam

Well Frankly speaking one should take the story of Muhammad from Muslims and early Muslims WITH A PINCH OF SALT.. The hadth., the Quran and the sunnah of these Muslim BUMS get out of hadith is full of confusion.. No Muslim ever tried to put time scale on those words came out of Muhammad and the reasons + circumstances surrounding those statemenst you see in Hadith and Quran.

The other serious problem is Which words/statements of Muhammad went in to Quran and which words/statements went in to Hadith and why is also questionable, for e.g. Taking the complete alleged life of Muhammad from Islamic sources gives us this

571: Birth of the Holy Prophet. Year of the Elephant. Invasion of Makkah by Abraha the Viceroy of Yemen, his retreat.
577: The Holy Prophet visits Madina with his mother. Death of his mother.
580: Death of Abdul Muttalib, the grandfather of the Holy Prophet.
583: The Holy Prophet's journey to Syria in the company of his uncle Abu Talib. His meeting with the monk Bahira at Bisra who foretells of his prophethood.
586: The Holy Prophet participates in the war of Fijar.
591: The Holy Prophet becomes an active member of "Hilful Fudul", a league for the relief of the distressed.
594: The Holy Prophet becomes the Manager of the business of Lady Khadija, and leads her trade caravan to Syria and back.
595: The Holy Prophet marries Hadrat Khadija. Seventh century

So we must realize here that any STUPID STORY Muslims tell until the year 594 is nothing more than nonsense and cock bull story. Moreover there is no big deal about that 25 year old Mohammad., no hint of any God/Allaha choosing him as his/her/its messenger.. But many of the so-called Islamic religious bums write so much nonsense about this guy even before that alleged Allah 1st revelation took place in that Hira cave.

Next is his life until he gets that first revelation in the year 610., that is another 15 years after his marriage with that GOOD looking Voluptuous ~40 year old Khadija(RA). There also, we know very little about this tom boy Muhammad

605: The Holy Prophet arbitrates in a dispute among the Quraish about the placing of the Black Stone in the Kaaba.
610: The first revelation in the cave at Mt. Hira. The Holy Prophet is commissioned as the Messenger of God.

that is all what we have about Muhammad until this time. Now he is 40 year old guy and Khadija was 55. Now comes his Islam. His singing in towns and a bit of hadith/ sunnah starts from this time ., So starting from the year 613.. here is his life..

613: Declaration at Mt. Sara inviting the general public to Islam.

614: Invitation to the Hashimites to accept Islam.
615: Persecution of the Muslims by the Quraish. A party of Muslims leaves for Abyssinia.
616: Second Hijrah to Abysinnia.
617: Social boycott of the Hashimites and the Holy Prophet by the Quraish. The Hashimites are shut up in a glen outside Makkah.
619: Lifting of the boycott. Deaths of Abu Talib and Hadrat Khadija. Year of sorrow.

Again We must realize until this time Mr. Mohammad and his Islam is nothing but singing songs in caves and on Meccan streets or at the best acting like a local feudal class product trying to prove he is also leader. With all that 20 years or so his silly preaching, HE COULD NOT EVEN PROVE to Meccan town people that he was messenger of Allah and he hardly had couple of 100 fit for nothing buggers as his followers., that too it may be because he spend his wife's money on these bums. His REAL ISLAM started after the death of his first wife Khadija. And allegedly here comes all that deadly hadith and silly verses in QURAN in these last 13 years of his life

620: Journey to Taif. Ascension to the heavens.
621: First pledge at Aqaba.
622: Second pledge at Aqaba. The Holy Prophet and the Muslims migrate to Yathrib.
623: Nakhla expedition.
624: Battle of Badr. Expulsion of the Bani Qainuqa Jews from Madina.
625: Battle of Uhud. Massacre of 70 Muslims at Bir Mauna. Expulsion of Banu Nadir Jews from Madina. Second expedition of Badr.
626: Expedition of Banu Mustaliq.
627: Battle of the Trench. Expulsion of Banu Quraiza Jews.
628: Truce of Hudaibiya. Expedition to Khyber. The Holy Prophet addresses letters to various heads of states.
629: The Holy Prophet performs the pilgrimage at Makkah. Expedition to Muta (Romans).
630: Conquest of Makkah. Battles of Hunsin, Auras, and Taif.
631: Expedition to Tabuk. Year of Deputations.
632: Farewell pilgrimage at Makkah.
632: Death of the Holy Prophet.Election of Hadrat Abu Bakr as the Caliph. Usamah leads expedition to Syria. Battles of Zu Qissa and Abraq. Battles of Buzakha, Zafar and Naqra. Campaigns against Bani Tamim and Musailima, the Liar.

And he dies when he was 62-63 year old guy. , in the last 13 years this fellow Muhammad was nothing but a CRIMINAL CHARACTER in the name of Allah. Before that he was NOT A BAD GUY. How can any one believe he conveyed all that Quran and Hadith during this time?? In 13 years this fellow married 13 women, many of them were half of his age, one was child and other was adopted son's ' wife and you have another 13 concubines + right hand possess from wars + wars with neighboring towns etc..etc.., With all the stuff going on., where the hell this Character Muhammad had time to preach Quran and tell hadith judgments to his followers??
To me Whole Islam history of Prophet's time appears to be COCK BULL STORY and Quran is a copy/pasted words by the writers of Quran 10 or so years after the death of Muhammad(if he was a person Not story character). They just used few alleged word of Muhammad along with lot of Plagiarism from Christian/Jewish and Arabian Pagan Scriptures/stories of that time. These hadith stories are mush worse, they run in to the stories told by these STUPID MUSLIMS 100 of years after his death..

So my friends., Muhammad should NOT be blamed for all things that are wrong in the present day Islam. He should only be blamed for HIS CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES not for the stories of STUPID MUSLIMS ..

[uncung]

my dear, christians will not believe if you quote Ayahs of Quran because they call it written by Mohammad.

If some Christians is one of the regular enemy of Islam then only give the following reference to read to a genuine non-Muslim who seeks the truth about our beloved Prophet SAW.

"I will raise a Prophet from among their (Jews) brethren" (Deuteronomy 18:18) The Jews are brethren to the Arabs-Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael.

He will be "like unto thee (Moses)" (Deuteronomy 18:18) Muhammad has much more in common with Moses than Jesus does. Christians only take this to be Jesus because he was a Jew, and that's all.

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned." (Isaiah 29:12)
Sound familiar? How about the first revelation Muhammad received when Gabriel told him to "Read! In the name of thy Lord!"-"I am not learned!" Muhammad replied.

"That whosoever will not hearken unto my words, which he shall speak in my name" (Deuteronomy 18:19). Speak in my name? "Bismillah!"-in the name of Allah-before every surah (except one) in the Quran.

"I (jesus) tell you (Jews), that the kingdom of God will be taken from you, and given to a people who will produce its proper fruits" (Matthew 21:43) Self-explanatory.

"But when he may come, the spirit of truth ["spirit" and "prophet" are used synonymously in the Bible so it does not refer to the "Holy Ghost"], he will lead you into all the truth; for he will not speak from himself; he will speak whatever he may hear; (John 16:13). Again, we know Muhammad did not speak from himself when he was receiving revelation.

And so on and so forth.

"Lakota- When Jesus spoke of the Spirit, he was talking about the Holy Spirit!"-No he wasn't. learn how to read your own Bible properly idolater. (John 4:1) uses "spirit" and "prophet" synonymously.

[HomerJay]

Sound familiar? How about the first revelation Muhammad received when Gabriel told him to "Read! In the name of thy Lord!"-"I am not learned!" Muhammad replied.

That's amazing. You know, my nephew said the same thing when I told him to read the TV listings for the time of the boxing match, he said "I am not learned!" HE MUST BE A PROPHET!

[frankie]

Whilst I would agree that people were killed in the name of Christianity,they had no divine right to do so.Conversely, Muslims are ordered to physically fight in the name of Allah,just as Mohammed did.See Bukhari Book 52 Volume 4 numbers 41 onwards.

Can you comprehend the understanding of meaning "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."

You may have been left in peace concerning your stance on the Islamic faith,but the Islamic way is to either at best, ostracize its faithful,or at worst kill them for rejecting Islam.As Mohammed said in Bukhari Book 84 Voume 9 number 57 "Whoever changed his Islamic religion,kill him."

"If I was in his (Ali's) shoes, .. I will do the same thing to them (during the early period of Islam). And I don't think that you know which one is real/genuine apostate. Btw, I will not dealing with a low-quality apostate..

It matters not to me what the name Jew signifies,but what does concern me is on how Jews are portrayed in Islamic scripture,thereby making Muslims view their fellow humans in a very dark light.

It doesn’t matter to you “what is the significative of the name "Jew" then that's your problem, not mine.

The question on the Trinity.The Quran mis-takenly equates Mary the mother of Jesus as part of this Trinity,which is totally untrue.Because Mohammed had only a limited knowledge of Christianity,he assumed this fallacy to be fact.Christianity believes the Trinity to be a special relationship between,God the Father,Son and Holy Spirit.If has nothing to do with anything physical,but is spiritual.Muslims agree that Jesus' birth was miraculous,but what exactly does that mean to a Muslim?

I disagree that “Mohammed had only a limited knowledge of Christianity”. You didn't know him ‘personally’ at all.

5:116 in the Quran is in error,this error is yet another fundamental reason why Allah is not the same as the Christian God.

Unfortunately,the conclusion has to be that Allah does make mistakes.

Allah makes no mistake about this verse. I suggest you take your quarrel, arguments etc to Allah. I believe He will be very happy to deal with you.

It's futile putting the blame on"radical Muslim clerics"and not on Islamic teachings.Islamic teachings reflect the life of 7th century Arabia,and the barbarity that comes with it.The sunnah of Mohammed gives Muslims all they need to know on how their prophet furthered the cause of the Islamic agenda,and how his followers are expected to do the same.

There are almost 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide. Do you think Muslims having incorrect beliefs about their own Islamic teachings? Only the small portion/number of Islamic extremists that feel they are supposed to kill anyone who does not completely agree with them makes the whole of Islam look very bad.

Sam
Please explain how Mohammaed furthered the cause of Islam,and how he expects his followers to do the same.

It would be helpful also if you could give an answer to my claims about the Trinity,and what the miracle birth of Jesus means to Muslims?

You appear to take lightly the dealing with aposates,in the Islamic faith.Please explain then, what is the penalty for leaving Islam?

The Islamic extremists you mention are the true Muslims,fighting in Allahs cause, as set down by the example of their prophet.The Muslims that do not put Mohammed's actions into practice,are not following Mohammeds example correctly,probably because they have never read this haddith in Bukhari,and probably because they have just relied upon their Imams ,being "economical with the truth".

Either way the words that are read,in Islamic scripture have been taken as they are written.If they should not to be taken as written,then it has not been made clear enough,either by Allah or by Mohammed.

You also need to explain the fighting verses in the Quran,allegedly from Allah commanding Muslims to fight unbelievers,even though they might not like it,2:216,and again in 9:29 These commands,are given to be the literal words from Allah to Muslims, for all times and places remember,not just an historical record.