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Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:51 pm
by noyanika
Dear FFI

Greeting ! I'm in lost to debate Muslims and sometime I think lets gave up but that will be dangerous as It is our responsibility to save them from becoming suicide bomber killing themselves and other innocent people . A friend of mine who operate by pseudo name write this ''





Have tried ever to do something impossible? Like flying on your own? Failed? So learn a lesson?

These are my lessons from what I learned after trying to do another impossible task. Convincing Muslims that Qur'an perhaps, just perhaps, is not from God.

So, why is it Impossible (with a big "I") to prove anything that is against a Muslim belief to a Muslim?

Basic Muslim axiom: They know that Qur'an can not be wrong. No - matter - what. Lets call this point "M". This point makes a Muslim, a Muslim (Shahada).

So,

- You try showing them something in Qur'an that contradicts facts, like the 'Man is made from clay/dust' verse, they'll tell you - "Allah meant is symbolically", we should use our intellect and understand what Allah meant, as since point "M" is true, it is obvious that Allah could not have meant it literally.

- You try showing them something controversial from Qur'an, like the 'Kill the non believers' verse they'll tell you - "Allah meant that it is context specific", we should use our intellect and understand what Allah meant, as since point "M" is true, it is obvious that Allah could not have meant it literally.

- You try showing them something objectionable in their approach, like 'Hey! You can not claim that "No compulsion in religion is context free and eternal, while Kill the non Believers is not! Qur'an does not mention a necessity of context!", they'll tell you we should use our intellect and understand what Allah meant, as since point "M" is true, it is obvious that Allah could not have meant it literally.

- You try showing them a discrepancy in Qur'an, like the '6 periods, 4 periods, 2 periods creation', they'll tell you - "Allah meant something else. Theory of relativity prove that it is not a discrepancy. Also translations can be wrong", we should use our intellect and understand what Allah meant, as since point "M" is true, it is obvious that Allah could not have meant it literally.


You try showing them that Qur'an is not as simple as it claims to be, they'll tell you - "Allah made it simple for us to understand. Allah himself says so in Qur'an." we should use our intellect and understand what Allah meant, as since point M" is true, it is obvious that Allah could not have meant it literally, and all those people misinterpreting, its because their fault.

Conclusion: Whoever is arguing with Muslims, make sure that there is not real way you are going to win. So do it ONLY when you have a lot of free time that you want to spend on something that you are expecting no result out of.

Amen to that.( One of my friend wrote this to me ) and I am forwarding it to you . Tell us how to debate with them ....


http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#CommMsgs?cm ... 96&start=1. I'm banned in this community for exposing Mohd

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:22 am
by massorite
I disagree. Muslims can not argue that the Quran is wrong. One such example is that the Quran actually glorifies the Gospel of Jesus, the Quran says that the Quran, the Gospel of Jesus and the Torah ARE ALL SENT DOWN BY ALLAH FOR ALL OF MANKIND and that Allah does not distinguish anmy difference between them. In other words according to the mind of Allah as it is written in the Quran all three books are equal in stature and importance. Also according to the Quran ALL MUSLIMS are supposed to believe in what all three books say and believe in ALL of the prophets and in their books which includes the books of Jesus and Moses.
The fact of the matter is that when Muslims reject the Gospel of Jesus and the Torah they are actually rejecting the word of Allah. If a Muslim says the the Gospel of Jesus has been corrupted, they are saying that Allah is not able to preserve his word, just as he says he has in the Quran. If a Muslim says the Quran says that the Gospel of Jesus has been corrupted, that Muslim is mis-informed because the Quran does not say that. What the Quran does say is that the interpretation of the written words in the Gospel of Jesus or the Torah have been corrupted. NOT THE WRITTEN WORD IT'S SELF IN THE GOSPEL OF JESUS OR THE TORAH. There are many of these anomalies in the Quran.
The bottom line is this. If you want to debate with a Muslim, debate what the Quran says verses what the Muslim has been taught. Do that and you will find that Muslims don't even know thier own holy book and are decieved by Islamic schalors into believing that which is not written in the so called word of Allah I.E. the Quran

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:11 pm
by truthsetsufree
Massorite
What the Quran does say is that the interpretation of the written words in the Gospel of Jesus or the Torah have been corrupted. NOT THE WRITTEN WORD IT'S SELF IN THE GOSPEL OF JESUS OR THE TORAH.


Can you please tell me where the quran says this? It would help me with my own debates

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:48 am
by Ozes
Funny they say the word of the Torah and the Bible are corrupted, yet both produce more peaceful, honorable, and honest people.If thats corruption, its corruption i like.

I understand how you feel about debating Muslims. The politically active Muslims do not give a damn about all the suffering under Islam. All they care about is defending Islam to look good in the eyes of Allah, even though Allah cares mostly about his murderers and his martyrs. If a Christian near me would want to inspire murder in the name of Christ, or bring an oppressive, censorious law to replace democracy, the first thing i would do is protest him. I would not go to the people affraid of Christianity and tell them everything is alright, i would fix the problem. Islam has no problem to fix, to fix the quran itself would mean burning two thirds of it at the least. But there are good reasons to debate Muslims.

  • You learn more about Islam, and you start to learn more about the Muslim mind.
  • You may help see even one Muslim to see the light, that Muhammed was a violent conman, not a prophet; as happy Muslims are everytime some sucker converts to their religion, its a far greater miracle when a Muslim is brave enough to leave this religion behind. Its one of the most courageous acts in life. I'm not an ex-Muslim but i can vouch myself for the aggression amongst Muslims when it comes to these matters.
  • Most importantly, you help more non-muslims be aware about Islam.

Debates with Muslims are difficult as most i have encountered are not bound by intellectual or moral integrity. They have no problem trying to derail a conversation by pointing out something insignificant or they needlessly defend a certain issue while it later turns out they have no issue with it.Most of the time a certain aspect of Islam is not defended because they believe an accusation to be false, but because they feel non-muslims lack the skills to appreciate the darker side of Islam. They believe they simply need to win the debate so we don't feel bad about Islam, as we can't comprehend why Muhammed slaughtering the Banu Qurayza is a great act. Also, its one of the few moments in time they believe they are a good Muslim is when they persist in a debate.

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:10 am
by kutkutmuraha
@Topic


It is still worthy.......to watch a free show of mental gymnastics by Muslims..Thanks Allah that he created Muslims.

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:27 pm
by peterpin
It is sometimes not evident that what you tell Muslims about Islam or the quran is sinking in.

Granted, often it does not.

That does not mean just give up. Show then the truth about Islam anyway. Sometimes the reaction to your effort is delayed,sometimes it never comes. It's still worthwhile to let them see. Some will eventually begin to look.

It is hard to deal with facts that contradict something you held dear all your life and that to define to a large extent with your view who you are.

So be paient.

Let them runt, insult you, go into mental distortions. Give them time.In the end, I strongly believe, the truth will win.at least with some of them.

So I disagree.I believe it is worthwhile discussing religion with a Muslim, however frustrating it can become.

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:22 am
by ringmaster
peterpin wrote:It is sometimes not evident that what you tell Muslims about Islam or the quran is sinking in.

Granted, often it does not.

That does not mean just give up. Show then the truth about Islam anyway. Sometimes the reaction to your effort is delayed,sometimes it never comes. It's still worthwhile to let them see. Some will eventually begin to look.

It is hard to deal with facts that contradict something you held dear all your life and that to define to a large extent with your view who you are.

So be paient.

Let them runt, insult you, go into mental distortions. Give them time.In the end, I strongly believe, the truth will win.at least with some of them.

So I disagree.I believe it is worthwhile discussing religion with a Muslim, however frustrating it can become.


Maybe patience is a virtue with some in some cases, but as whole, it is pointless. I would simply tell a muslim that their allah guy is satan, and that their prophet was a liar, thief, pedophile, rapist, slave trader, adulterer, and murderer. All of those attributes of the prophet and their god can easily be demonstrated from their own books.

If they hyperventilate, let them hyperventilate. Smile when you watch them hyperventilate. Laugh if it suits you. And don't forget to remind them that you didn't invent the filth that is in their books.

In my case, I have a sort of perverse enjoyment in watching and listening to them foam at the mouth. I also enjoy watching them run around in circles desperately looking for stuff in their books that fits within modern day sensibilities. We have even had one participant in this forum say, effectively, that the prophet was unislamic. It can be quite hilarious.

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:11 pm
by Amin Riadh
ringmaster wrote:
peterpin wrote:It is sometimes not evident that what you tell Muslims about Islam or the quran is sinking in.

Granted, often it does not.

That does not mean just give up. Show then the truth about Islam anyway. Sometimes the reaction to your effort is delayed,sometimes it never comes. It's still worthwhile to let them see. Some will eventually begin to look.

It is hard to deal with facts that contradict something you held dear all your life and that to define to a large extent with your view who you are.

So be paient.

Let them runt, insult you, go into mental distortions. Give them time.In the end, I strongly believe, the truth will win.at least with some of them.

So I disagree.I believe it is worthwhile discussing religion with a Muslim, however frustrating it can become.


Maybe patience is a virtue with some in some cases, but as whole, it is pointless. I would simply tell a muslim that their allah guy is satan, and that their prophet was a liar, thief, pedophile, rapist, slave trader, adulterer, and murderer. All of those attributes of the prophet and their god can easily be demonstrated from their own books.

If they hyperventilate, let them hyperventilate. Smile when you watch them hyperventilate. Laugh if it suits you. And don't forget to remind them that you didn't invent the filth that is in their books.

In my case, I have a sort of perverse enjoyment in watching and listening to them foam at the mouth. I also enjoy watching them run around in circles desperately looking for stuff in their books that fits within modern day sensibilities. We have even had one participant in this forum say, effectively, that the prophet was unislamic. It can be quite hilarious.



One wonders at such self-congratulatory and ridiculous lines.

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:15 pm
by peterpin
Amin, what did I say that offends you?

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:06 pm
by ringmaster
Amin Riadh wrote:
ringmaster wrote:
peterpin wrote:It is sometimes not evident that what you tell Muslims about Islam or the quran is sinking in.

Granted, often it does not.

That does not mean just give up. Show then the truth about Islam anyway. Sometimes the reaction to your effort is delayed,sometimes it never comes. It's still worthwhile to let them see. Some will eventually begin to look.

It is hard to deal with facts that contradict something you held dear all your life and that to define to a large extent with your view who you are.

So be paient.

Let them runt, insult you, go into mental distortions. Give them time.In the end, I strongly believe, the truth will win.at least with some of them.

So I disagree.I believe it is worthwhile discussing religion with a Muslim, however frustrating it can become.


Maybe patience is a virtue with some in some cases, but as whole, it is pointless. I would simply tell a muslim that their allah guy is satan, and that their prophet was a liar, thief, pedophile, rapist, slave trader, adulterer, and murderer. All of those attributes of the prophet and their god can easily be demonstrated from their own books.

If they hyperventilate, let them hyperventilate. Smile when you watch them hyperventilate. Laugh if it suits you. And don't forget to remind them that you didn't invent the filth that is in their books.

In my case, I have a sort of perverse enjoyment in watching and listening to them foam at the mouth. I also enjoy watching them run around in circles desperately looking for stuff in their books that fits within modern day sensibilities. We have even had one participant in this forum say, effectively, that the prophet was unislamic. It can be quite hilarious.



One wonders at such self-congratulatory and ridiculous lines.


Typical muslim illiterate. Read what I wrote.

I am not congratulating myself. I am simply describing what amuses me.

I would love to tell you to your face that allah is a pig and that your prophet's mama was a whore. Whether I believe that to be true or not is not the issue. The reaction that one would typically expect from a muslim is what amuses me.

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:02 pm
by Amin Riadh
Typical muslim illiterate. Read what I wrote.

I am not congratulating myself. I am simply describing what amuses me.

I would love to tell you to your face that allah is a pig and that your prophet's mama was a whore. Whether I believe that to be true or not is not the issue. The reaction that one would typically expect from a muslim is what amuses me.


You wouldn't have the guts - hidden behind the internet - every coward makes such declarations. . . it ain't that easy.

This amuses you does it?

- - -

" I would simply tell a muslim that their allah guy is satan, and that their prophet was a liar, thief, pedophile, rapist, slave trader, adulterer, and murderer. All of those attributes of the prophet and their god can easily be demonstrated from their own books. "

Wow! Easily . . . ?

Take Sina. . . . I've reduced him to babbling lies and insults. . . after I have exposed many of his lies and absurdities. . . .

It is pretence at being "big" and nothing more.

When it comes down to it. . . . you ain't got it son.

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:10 pm
by Chiclets
Amin Riadh wrote:You wouldn't have the guts - hidden behind the internet - every coward makes such declarations. . . it ain't that easy.

This amuses you does it?


Image

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:35 pm
by ringmaster
Amin Riadh wrote:
Typical muslim illiterate. Read what I wrote.

I am not congratulating myself. I am simply describing what amuses me.

I would love to tell you to your face that allah is a pig and that your prophet's mama was a whore. Whether I believe that to be true or not is not the issue. The reaction that one would typically expect from a muslim is what amuses me.


You wouldn't have the guts - hidden behind the internet - every coward makes such declarations. . . it ain't that easy.

This amuses you does it?

- - -

" I would simply tell a muslim that their allah guy is satan, and that their prophet was a liar, thief, pedophile, rapist, slave trader, adulterer, and murderer. All of those attributes of the prophet and their god can easily be demonstrated from their own books. "

Wow! Easily . . . ?

Take Sina. . . . I've reduced him to babbling lies and insults. . . after I have exposed many of his lies and absurdities. . . .

It is pretence at being "big" and nothing more.

When it comes down to it. . . . you ain't got it son.


Bitchboy allah doesn't have it.

Your pray to the useless turd 5 times a day and the Jews still kick your ass..

Re: Debating with Muslims? Here is why NOT to.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:44 pm
by Fathom
Amin Riadh wrote:
Typical muslim illiterate. Read what I wrote.

I am not congratulating myself. I am simply describing what amuses me.

I would love to tell you to your face that allah is a pig and that your prophet's mama was a whore. Whether I believe that to be true or not is not the issue. The reaction that one would typically expect from a muslim is what amuses me.


You wouldn't have the guts - hidden behind the internet - every coward makes such declarations. . . it ain't that easy.

This amuses you does it?

- - -

" I would simply tell a muslim that their allah guy is satan, and that their prophet was a liar, thief, pedophile, rapist, slave trader, adulterer, and murderer. All of those attributes of the prophet and their god can easily be demonstrated from their own books. "

Wow! Easily . . . ?

Take Sina. . . . I've reduced him to babbling lies and insults. . . after I have exposed many of his lies and absurdities. . . .

It is pretence at being "big" and nothing more.

When it comes down to it. . . . you ain't got it son.


I actually hope you remain a Muslim, get radicalized, and join ISIS so the world can blow your sorry facking ass into a million pieces.

Don't change.

:)