a delicate problem-don't laugh...

Share your experiences of having a Muslim in a relationship, as a friend or family member
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a delicate problem-don't laugh...

Post by manfred »


even though a bit personal, I think I want to share this because I am lost at what else I can say...

A friend of mine sent me an email from Indonesia. He is exhausted. His grandma is over 90 and doubly incontinent. He also lives with his sick mom who has gout, and his blind father. He looks after ALL of them. I send them a little money every month and that is all they have to live on. I have done for over 10 years.

The incontinence problem is a relatively new one, and it is hugely complicated by the old lady's insistence to pray five times a day. She can only do so sitting down, but she is adamant to be ritually clean, so my friend needs to wash her over and over, many times a day.

I suggested aids like incontinence pads or even a catheter, maybe some "rubber pants" as well to make caring for her manageable. None of these ideas are acceptable to the old lady, because they would interfere with her prayers.

How can I get it into her head that God loves her the way she is, and will not reject sincere prayers, pads or no pads. It really cannot go on much longer. My friend is completely knackered. I have offered to travel out there to give him a break, but I would not be an acceptable carer for the old lady, and they don't want some kafir staying in the house.

I know this sounds mad, but maybe someone has an idea on what to do?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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Re: a delicate problem-don't laugh...

Post by Exene »

I found this online, it seems it's ok for her to pray like that according to the Maliki madhab...

Supposing a person, like you, is afflicted by urinary incontinence but is not regarded as excused as he does not meet the conditions to be classed as excused. If he sees wetness on the clean pad he applied and does not know when urine dripped on it, he should assume that it dripped at the moment he saw it, like in the example of menstrual blood. If he feels doubt about leakage, he should check the pad before standing for salat. If he sees any wetness, he is obligated to renew wudu'. If he has doubts about leakage when he is in salat, he should check his pad as soon as he says salam. If he sees drops of urine, he must repeat that salat. If he checks a few minutes after he has said salam and sees drops of urine, he is considered to have performed that salat in a state of wudu'.

According to the Hanafi Madhhab, a person in this condition does not meet the conditions for being classified as an excused person. But he is considered excused according to the Maliki Madhhab. Therefore, if he imitates the Maliki Madhhab for this problem, involuntary loss of urine does not nullify his wudu'. Nor is the urine that soils his pad or underwear considered impurity (najs). He should make use of this legal concession, thus avoiding causing himself trouble.

http://m.dinimizislam.com/detail_en.asp?Aid=6090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: a delicate problem-don't laugh...

Post by Raj_Flower »

I'm really sorry and understand the problem of looking after old people. Don't take this comment the wrong way please.

It's very sad that for an imaginary god, one there's no proof of, with a crazed founder and bewildering book and rules, they are willing to do all these acts.

It's amazing some hundred years after the Englightment that a billion people point there head to Mecca once a week to upto 5 times a day. What's an amazing idiotic waste of energy.

In a way it makes them stronger- that they strive to pray. Use all their power to lift their bones with old skinny muscles. And mind over matter keeps them healthy. I do believe and understand why it could be an evolutionary advantage to believe in some kind of faith/god.

I known too much so can't believe in anything ever.
My mother always says may Allah raise from this world before she becomes a burden on anybody.

I always put doubts in people's mind so I wouldn't waste any opportunity. In a kind voice say "brother I'm sure Allah has had his fill of prayers for him over millions of years of leaves and dinosaurs praying for him. If you don't get up this one time he surely will forgive you. Because he is compassionate etc."
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Re: a delicate problem-don't laugh...

Post by Garudaman »

QS. 2:286. Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity.

QS. 16:106. Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment;

QS. 64:4. He knows what is within the heavens and earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare. And Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts.

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Re: a delicate problem-don't laugh...

Post by Yohan »

Islam, though a cruel religion, is pretty accomodative when it comes to following rituals for the handicapped. Regimens can be easily exempted to accomodate the sick and the old. Have a nearby Iman come and tell the old lady that she can do her prayers in the state she is in without having to do all that ablution stuff.

Allah is always the most understanding, you know. :heh:
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