Why did Islam servive for over 1400 years???

[ygalg]

Islam makes more sense to people than any other religion, that's why people are still attracted to it in west despite no preaching or going door to door knocking by musims.

making sense??? you're gotta be kidding me.

so who was sacrificed by abraham Issac or Ishmael? why was lot's wife mentioned along with people who were punished? how does the story of able and Kain related to "one who saves one soul, as it saves entire world"?

[Cassie]

Very few caucasians are attracted to Islam - the only major group of caucasians observing islam are those who were conquered by the Turks in South-eastern Europe. There seems to be an (unspoken) racial / cultural demography to Islam.

[Multiple]

The main reason for Islams popularity is the lack of formal EDUCATION and STUPIDITY. Which is why so many American Blacks convert to Islam the CULT of their SLAVE MASTERS completely ignorant and uneducated about Mohammedan ARABS major part in enslaving Blacks in Africa for HUNDREDS of years before a white man ever set foot there and who are STILL doing so today. Not forgetting the BLACK on BLACK slavery which was and STILL is endemic in Africa too.

[Gauge123]

Islam makes more sense to people than any other religion, that's why people are still attracted to it in west despite no preaching or going door to door knocking by musims.

If you substitute "sense" for "nonsense" and "attracted" for "repelled" you would be 100% accurate. Only the criminally minded, thugs and those searching for an identity take it up...besides those who have a need to seek outside of the dominant paradigm for a solution...they know nothing of Islam...they just adopt it for a platform on which to speak (e.g. Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X etc etc etc)...Elijah Mohamed Black Power Nation of Islam black power styly yeah....

Who else has taken it up? Yusuf Islam? Moonshadow, moonshadow...who cares?

Give me a list iffo...let's examine those that have taken it up and submitted....let's examine their characters.

[enceladus]

Well said, Gauge123!

Yeah..... it's not hard to see that for the feckless and those of low intelligence, Islam has a similar kind of anti-establishment pull to what Marxism a-la Che Guevara used to have (and still does for some....). For "revolution", substitute "jihad".
- enceladus

[Just Dan]

How indeed?
I'm glad you brought up Nazi. I can make a comparison about it.
Warlords all over have the same recipe. Lies and terror.
Regarding Lies:
Hitler had Joseph Goebbels the Ministry of Propaganda. He created movies, pamphlets etc. About the Jews and the blacks. Some even so absurd that Nazi boys were led to believe that Blacks can grow horns to their foreheads. Some propaganda were so evil that churches were banned to depict Jesus as a Jew.
Muhammad had Quran and his words. In the Quran, Islam convinces muslims that they are better than others and will someday take over the world. Besides, lying permitted in the Quran. This is dangerous, when you're arguing with a muslim about Islam, always bear in mind that they would use lies to reason against you. Yes, even Imams and Scholars. Sick huh?
Regarding Terrors:
Hitler had his SS officer to terrorize Europe. It's preety clear what terror in Nazi is. So we skip that part.
Muhammad always a man that fond of terrors. Through terror he has been made victorious. Fighting is also prescribed in Quran too many times over. He killed whoever stood defiant against him. Even now muslims kill whoever stands defiant to Islam.
The lists are endless about lies and terrors in Islam. Some Jihadists commit terror someplace, then the Imams and Islamic sites lie by telling people that Islam is a religion of peace. After 9/11, Bassam Zawadi and his thugs published an article saying that the Jews and US govt. orchestrated the attacks.
Indeed, if i want to take over the world, i would use lies and terrors.
I hope you get the idea.

[enceladus]

True indeed..... welcome, Just Dan!

Yes - Islam and Nazism are the same thing under different names. Vicious, totalitarian and evil.
- enceladus

[pr126]

The Nazis claimed to be the "Aryan" master race.
Muslims in Quran 3:110 make the same claim.

Is there any connection?

[kohai]

This is actually a very good question. I contend that Islam survived by forcing the religion down their opponent's throats. They forced them to teach their children about Islam.

In addition, we must also look at Hinduism. Hinduism has been around far longer than Judaism. Should we follow that religion?

Edit: I used Hinduism as an example to refute the claims that because it is an old religion, it has to be true. I must say though, excellent post, Welcome to the DB.

[TonyT]

Although Mohammad was evil as he was, he was not lazy, he believed in a mission, he believed that he was a prophet for real, he kept saying he wanted to rule and destroy the Jews, the kafirs, anyone who would opposed him...............Well, the universe gave it to him.

I do not believe it for a second. Muhammad did not himself believe he was a prophet. He was an intelligent man and he knew very well that his stories were lies. For him, it was not important whether he was telling the truth or not, what was important was that people would believe him. We should also remember that he was NOT unique, there were a number of other would be prophets in Arabia that Muhammad fought against, Aswad Ansi in Yemen, Musaylimah in Yamamah, Tulayha in Bukaza, etc. What made Muhammad succesful and these other prophets fail? They simply were defeated in battle by Muhammad's armies.

But let's put things in perspective here and look at the wider historical context, Will Durant wrote:

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within" (The Story of Civilization (Vol 3 Caesar And Christ. Epilogue - Why Rome fell)

What we think of today as the Islamic World (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Asia Minor, etc.) had been the birthplace and center of the greatest and most advanced civilizations in the entire world for more than 4,000 years. But by the time of Muhammad these areas were in major decline, desertification had turned North Africa from what had previosuly been the main supply of grain to the Roman Empire into an unproductive backwater. The Byzantine system of rulership had become so corrupted and plagued by intrigue and factionalization that rulers were more preoccupied with assasination plots at court in Constantinople than worrying about nomadic warriors infringing on remote provinces. Constant war between the Byzantines and Persians had weakened both states. So basically the entire region was undergoing major decline. The advance of Islam should be seen as a product of major decline rather than ingeneous success. It was a transitionary period that marked the movement of the center of gravity of advanced civilization outside of the Middle East and into Europe and China.

If Muhammad could see the world today, he would probably be surprised that his message had reached so far, but on closer inspection he might shed a tear that whilst the other peoples of the world were progressing and growing economically and intellectually the "Ummah" that he had created were being left behind. China, India and the West are all exploring outer space whilst the Islamic World is plagued by constant civil wars and barabarism.

Finally, in the great scheme of things, 1,400 years is not a long time. Ancient Egyptian religion survived for at least 3,500 years, and they had an even more ridiculous belief system than Islam, they actually believed that their Pharoah was a god himself, not simply appointed by a god.

[BetterDaysAhead]

I think that Muhammed may have sufferred Schizophrenia (the symptoms of which are hallucinations and delusions of grandeur, explaining his ascent to the 7th heaven on a winged horse), Narcissistic personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy). 7th century Arabia It wasn't a good time to be alive - and Muhammed knew it. These people needed hope. He knew that if he could give them false hope they would be putty in his hands. He used his Quran as an excuse for all his outrageous behaviour and if you questioned, say, his pedophilic ways, well, you were plain disbelieving. Its funny how the surahs were sent down at 'relevant' times in Muhammed's life. Islam survived because, like other users have previously pointed out, the death penalty for leaving is death. In a predominantly muslim community and way before the media or internet was around, there would be no one to help you, noone to support you, you would be vastly outnumbered.

Islam is still around today because it has almost become a culture. Alot of people practice it unwittingly .. prayers, for example are just rituals they witnessed their parents doing and in blind ignorance they will probably continue doing it and then pass it on to their children. Its much easier to just submit than to face being shunned from those you love or even death. Those who have the courage to think are told it is shameful to doubt and disbelieve and made to believe they are 'possessed' or otherwise. Rational thoughts are dismissed as being whispers of the devil. Why did Islam survive for over 1400 years? Bloodshed and a good deal of brainwashing IMO.

[capner]

Because as well as being brutal, full of fear and violence, it is also opportunistic. It gains your trust and stabs you in a back

Islam is : the deadliest, shittiest lie ever told. And people are afraid of getting murdered. And they can't even question that religion because if they did, it would show its faults. But I have news for you! Its called the internet. Through the internet people are learning the truth about that shitty lie. And the only people attracted to it anymore are people who are attracted to violence in general. So, it is NOT growing the way it used to grow. Peace to all the Christians around here.

[ringmaster]

...........................And they can't even question that religion because if they did, it would show its faults. But I have news for you! Its called the internet. Through the internet people are learning the truth about that xxxxx lie. And the only people attracted to it anymore are people who are attracted to violence in general. So, it is NOT growing the way it used to grow.......................................

Even on the internet there are some islamic charlatans try their best to obscure and lie about the facts.

We have one in here who thinks that islam is about the best thing there is, and with every syllable he writes, tries to make a silk purse from a pig's ear.

[capner]

...........................And they can't even question that religion because if they did, it would show its faults. But I have news for you! Its called the internet. Through the internet people are learning the truth about that xxxxx lie. And the only people attracted to it anymore are people who are attracted to violence in general. So, it is NOT growing the way it used to grow.......................................

Even on the internet there are some islamic charlatans try their best to obscure and lie about the facts.

We have one in here who thinks that islam is about the best thing there is, and with every syllable he writes, tries to make a silk purse from a pig's ear.

Yes. I know that there are some islamic apologists out there. But they are a disappearing breed. There is just too much education at ones finger-tips for anyone who dares to have any intellectual curiosity. They only places where it goes almost unchallenged is places like Afghanistan where only one in ten people can read. Iran is a good example of a country where islam is dying. More than 70% of the people there no longer have any faith in islam. And, Iranians are generally smart people. It will fester and die almost anywhere it cannot get jizya from people or governments (like it is getting in england and europe).

[Ozes]

Most islam apologists you see on TV don't reference to the quran but socio-economic theories to try to make people believe Islam is not a hostile cult.
You hardly see Muslims trying to talk about the quran in front of even an intelligent crowd of dhimmi's.

They know when they get caught in a lie, the quran doesn't offer any way out.

[Heathen]

Hi All,

Brand new here but this is a very interesting thread, which led me to discover this fascinating board.

Quick intro - English, atheist, brought up vaguely Christian and never was a Muslim but have a strong interest in it. Especially driven by current events, but also by the works of Robert Spencer and Bernard Lewis amongst others.


From what I am gathering it seems that the success and durability of Islam is two fold. I would be interested in the comments of those more knowledgeable of the nature and history of Islam on these thoughts.

On the one hand it's unwavering certainty makes Islam attractive, especially to people in declining civilisations which have lost their own moral direction. When the soppy Church of England and similar organisations provide nothing but an empty rehash of the liberal, relativist cultural marxism offered by the main political parties and taught in schools it's interesting to hear people who believe in something more permanent and meaningful. As G.K. Chesterton said people who don't believe in something will believe anything. In this way Islam preys on failing civilisations such as Byzantium and Persia, which had pretty much destroyed each other over the previous century before Islam took hold. It was pushed back in Europe by a more assertive Christian movement in Spain and by the Holy Roman Empire in the Balkans, and then further by the industrialising British and French empires in the 19th century. Islam was absolutely no threat to these powers because they were strong economically and militarily but also confident culturally.

The weak and the unsure simply accept it as another, alternative and equally valid belief system. Perhaps they even welcome it's passion and certainty. This is the standard multicultural line and explains why well meaning liberals will argue against all of the useful things that liberals have achieved (gender equality, decent treatment of criminals, humane slaughter of animals etc) if they feel it would be insensitive, or (shock horror) racist towards this alternative culture to stand for these values.

Secondly, Islam appeals to some of the very worst elements in people. Especially weak and people who lack their own sense of morality. People who feel rage and humiliation at any slight. If someone steals from you, you chop off their hand. If your wife cheats on you, stone her and her lover to death. If someone won't believe the truth you tell them you subjugate them and make their life difficult. If they turn against your truth or mock it then kill them. You can rape your enemy's wives and take them as sex slaves, in addition to the 4 wives you're allowed anyway. There is no guilt or moral reproach. This is God's will, and if it just happens to coincide with your vengeful, supremacist sadism and sexual desires then so much the better.

Within these declining societies it is the most aggressive and the most motivated, and those who most keenly miss the power and prestige they feel they deserve, either through past glories or simply divine right, who turn to Islam.


This adds up to a sort of cancer which means the aggressive and the motivated have a mandate (from God no less) to dominate and subjugate others, while the weak who miss the moral certainty of the old order have a ready made replacement they can submit to.

Once this is installed the carefully crafted provisions of the various pacts of dhimmitude reinforce this arrangement and ensure that other religions are in a constant state of decline and decay while Islam is protected by law, and by aggression.


It seems that Islam is crafted precisely to fill the vacuum created by the early Arab rulers having extraordinary (and perhaps unexpected?) success at taking great swathes of territory from Byzantium and Persia, and this cult of Mohammed the warlord preacher evolved out of the necessity to have a new religion to bind these disparate people together. And after 1,400 years it's very good at this.

[Ariel]

Welcome Heathen . You can now post without waiting for a moderator. Have fun .

[Fernando]

Welcome Heathen. I look forward to seeing you in other threads.

[Heathen]

Thanks Ariel and Fernando.

[Hombre]

Heathen
thanks for the insight on Islam. Your comment that Islam thrived on other declining empires (Persia & Byzantine) indeed true. However, that can not be said about Islam of past 100 years. The fall of the Ottoman, decline in any form of economic, political, or social progress throughout the Arab-Islamic states.

The only thing that keeps Islam afloat is oil, which by the way, it also became Muslims worse enemy. It gave their leaders the funding necessary to live in luxury w/o the need to invent, work, or even lift a finger. It bred corruption - worse, with means to suppress any oppositions to the regimes.

Another important element to note, Muhammad never taught his followers to build anything from ground up - rather his mantra was "why buy the cow, if I can get the milk for free". Why work hard to build a self sustaining economy, as long as he could invade other people's land and achieve same economic wealth as the previous case.

That is the very reason we see very little trace of contributions to mankind from Islamic countries, as we see from other former empires. This record still holds true through so few Nobel Laureates in Science and technology. Lowest per capita in education & productivity. You may laugh. But have 4 wives, who's one man needs to keep fully "stocked" takes its toll during the day, with their ability to be more productive.

the main reason is mainly due to the lack in freedom of thought, and expression - necessary to unleash people's full potential as other western societies had done.

As you alluded. It is fear and the force of intimidation which keep Islam glued. The best test for it, is allow full and unrestricted freedom of expression - including matters of religion, and Muhammad. Then we will see how many will chose to remain Muslims.
The first one who will leave Islam is SAM. Why? because he can's have fun with Muslim girls as he has with 16 years non-Muslims in Europe.