So i have left Islam

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Defiance21
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So i have left Islam

Post by Defiance21 »

Hi all,

So obviously i have left islam i know it is a right thing to do and i don't regret but i am still feeling some fear in me mainly hell, judgment day etc...

my question is am i the only one who is feeling this or has anyone experienced this when they left Islam?

I think it has to do with 10 years of teachings about eternal hellfire, judgment day and so on when i was boy i used to have nightmares about those things i am 22 now it's kinda amazing how the stories can stick with you.

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Sten
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Sten »

Defiance21 wrote:Hi all,

So obviously i have left islam i know it is a right thing to do and i don't regret but i am still feeling some fear in me mainly hell, judgment day etc...

my question is am i the only one who is feeling this or has anyone experienced this when they left Islam?

I think it has to do with 10 years of teachings about eternal hellfire, judgment day and so on when i was boy i used to have nightmares about those things i am 22 now it's kinda amazing how the stories can stick with you.
The threat of hell is some incredibly strong mental conditioning, it takes a strong mind to break away from the fear and reject the belief. Ex-Catholics have the same problem.

Hats off to you, sir. :hi:
The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.
- Carl Sagan

Eopithecus
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Eopithecus »

Why would it be obvious you have left Islam? Think of hell as just an aspect of culrure used to command obedience through fear. Some native Americans tell stories of were-bears that eat bad children other people have the boogie-man to scare the bad or Santa Claus to reward good children. It is the same-thing with heaven and hell. Bad people punished, good people rewarded. You left Islam but you haven't left your culturem new beliefs never may seem natural but they will to your children.

survivor
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by survivor »

Defiance21 wrote:Hi all,

So obviously i have left islam i know it is a right thing to do and i don't regret but i am still feeling some fear in me mainly hell, judgment day etc....
Welcome, dear Defiance21, to the world of Humanity. Fear, just like an unseen God, is in your mind. If you succumb to these kind of " negative imaginary forces", you cannot function well and, as a result, your actions get impaired. These very same Body-Mind lethargicity are misinterpreted as 'Curses', by the evil [religious] minds, who, all the time, are waiting to see your downfall, once you go away from the evil indoctrination they have chosen or been forced to practice. So, make sure that you do not give a chance to your 'imaginary fear' become your BOSS. I am sure, as a humanbeing, you do know that mishaps, accidents, failures or any kind of setbacks for that matter, are bound to occur at any phases of our lives regardless of our religious affiliations, convictions, actions or health.

So, all you should be doing now is rejoicing the fact that you have earned the liberty to correct and perfect your thoughts, actions, mannerisms and live life to the fullest as it comes only once to you.

Sincerely,
survivor.
Last edited by survivor on Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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manfred
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by manfred »

About this feeling of fear,let me ask you this:

Imagine you has a son.This son makes a decision you don't agree with, a big one, like he has decided to leave his job and try to be an actor.

So what do you do? Shout a lot? Lock him in his room? Kill him? Force him to marry and live abroad?

I dare say I am pretty certain what you will do: You may tell him you think the decision is wrong, but then you will do everything you can to help him make it a success, because you want to to be himself, not a clone of you. You may not likewhat he does,but you would be proud that he is so independent.

So you fear that Allah would be less compassionate than you,less undertsanding that you,less caring than you? How can you think that a just and compassionate God will punish those who in good conscience make a decision, freely, and after alot of thought? Is Allah that petty?

If Allah wanted puppets, the why did he make men?

No matter what people say to you, you do what you have started: make up your owm mind. You are free; you need not fear anyone, least of all Allah. Even if your decision was completly wrong, how can Allah punish you being honest and truthful to yourself? (and you decision was NOT wrong.)

The fear "instinct" is something you have been taught from a very young age. And yet,if you analyse this feeling of fear, it evaporates into a cloud of smoke. It is an illusion.

And, bythe way, it goes without saying, Islam does not stand up to scrutiny, and you have made the right decision. Celebrate that, instead of tying yourself in knots of fear to the ideology you have already rejected.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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expozIslam
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by expozIslam »

welcome to humanity. It took Ali Sina 2 years to get over his fears and islamic brainwashing. You are not alone. To comfort yourself, read up the testimonies of those who have left islam.
“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”

Ram
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Ram »

Defiance21 wrote:Hi all,

So obviously i have left islam i know it is a right thing to do and i don't regret but i am still feeling some fear in me mainly hell, judgment day etc...

my question is am i the only one who is feeling this or has anyone experienced this when they left Islam?

I think it has to do with 10 years of teachings about eternal hellfire, judgment day and so on when i was boy i used to have nightmares about those things i am 22 now it's kinda amazing how the stories can stick with you.
Look at this way, you left the hell of Islam. There is no judgment day. There is no Allah and Muhammad was not a prophet. So stop torturing yourself and enjoy life. Enjoyment of life without fear and helping others is the true religion. Instead of saying 5 same prayers a day listen to 5 different beautiful songs everyday. Instead of going to Haj, go to the top of a some mountain for pilgrimage, visit different countries every year. Instead of starving yourself in the month of Ramadan, enjoy cuisine from different countries. Making children so fearful is child abuse.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.

Defiance21
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Defiance21 »

Thanks all for your comments i feel a bit better now i should tell you all when i began to question islam:

My grandmother died 19 years ago (she wasn't muslim), i don't remember her at all but my mother who also isn't muslim told me she was very nice always helpful, me and my father were taking about her and i closed the conversation with ''peace be upon her'' and he shouted ''don't say that she is in hell now because she died a kafar''!!i told my mother about it and it made her cry.

I then began to question god and why he would send her to hell just because she wasn't muslim what kind of god is that? she was an extremely kind person it just didn't make any sense to me this isn't the type of god i want to worship, there were of course many other things that made me question islam but this was the start of it all.

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Fathom
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Fathom »

Defiance21 wrote:Thanks all for your comments i feel a bit better now i should tell you all when i began to question islam:

My grandmother died 19 years ago (she wasn't muslim), i don't remember her at all but my mother who also isn't muslim told me she was very nice always helpful, me and my father were taking about her and i closed the conversation with ''peace be upon her'' and he shouted ''don't say that she is in hell now because she died a kafar''!!i told my mother about it and it made her cry.

I then began to question god and why he would send her to hell just because she wasn't muslim what kind of god is that? she was an extremely kind person it just didn't make any sense to me this isn't the type of god i want to worship, there were of course many other things that made me question islam but this was the start of it all.
Perhaps what you may wish to do is further your education regarding religions. Once you have established the actual history of Islam, and also other religions similar to it such as Christianity and Judaism, your reasoning abilities will allow you to not only understand what they are really all about, but also to dismiss them all as superstitious beliefs that really don't have any evidence to support their claims.

The way to overcome your fear of things such as hell is to investigate the history of hell. Believe me, once you learn of what hell is, where the concept of it originated, and how it's original meaning was twisted to suit Islam and Christianity, you just may find that your fear will turn to laughter, because it really is quite funny.

time to wake up
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by time to wake up »

manfred wrote:About this feeling of fear,let me ask you this:

Imagine you has a son.This son makes a decision you don't agree with, a big one, like he has decided to leave his job and try to be an actor.

So what do you do? Shout a lot? Lock him in his room? Kill him? Force him to marry and live abroad?

I dare say I am pretty certain what you will do: You may tell him you think the decision is wrong, but then you will do everything you can to help him make it a success, because you want to to be himself, not a clone of you. You may not likewhat he does,but you would be proud that he is so independent.

So you fear that Allah would be less compassionate than you,less undertsanding that you,less caring than you? How can you think that a just and compassionate God will punish those who in good conscience make a decision, freely, and after alot of thought? Is Allah that petty?

If Allah wanted puppets, the why did he make men?

No matter what people say to you, you do what you have started: make up your owm mind. You are free; you need not fear anyone, least of all Allah. Even if your decision was completly wrong, how can Allah punish you being honest and truthful to yourself? (and you decision was NOT wrong.)

The fear "instinct" is something you have been taught from a very young age. And yet,if you analyse this feeling of fear, it evaporates into a cloud of smoke. It is an illusion.

And, bythe way, it goes without saying, Islam does not stand up to scrutiny, and you have made the right decision. Celebrate that, instead of tying yourself in knots of fear to the ideology you have already rejected.
What a good post Manfred

sword_of_truth
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by sword_of_truth »

There is no refuge from the threat of hell. It doesn't matter where you run. No hiding place, to my mind, has any better claim towards safety than any other. For example, even if we knew that Islam came from Allah, we still have to believe Allah that he will not just put us all in hell, anyway, even if we do what he says. If someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to do what they say, doing what they say does not guarantee you, not even in the slightest, that you will not be shot anyway. It's even worse for the case of Allah because we know nothing about him, other than what he tells us about himself, whereas, if it's a human who is threatening us, we have some experience with other humans to work from. It could be that the Quran is from Allah, but it's a test to see who is smart enough not to fall for it, and, actually, you go to hell if you practice Islam. There is no way to disprove that. Or, if Islam is not true, other religions claim you are going to hell. And what if the aliens in the galaxy of Andromeda worship a god who puts you in hell because you don't worship him?

To sum it up, being a muslim would offer absolutely no assurance that we are not going to hell. It offers no particular advantage over any other belief system as a means of avoiding hell.

Luckily, there is zero credible evidence that hell, in any form, exists. In fact, as a totally arbitrary and fairly specific claim, I think it exceeding unlikely to exist. Given that our minds seem to be totally a product of our brains, I think there is a very good bet that there is no afterlife at all, although no one can say for sure.
"...if you want my personal preference say I found out that my wife was cheating with me flogging would be too good a punishment."

--fudgy

firewall
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by firewall »

Jangan menyesal kamu keluar dari islam tahu sndiri nanti di akhirat !

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time to wake up
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by time to wake up »

Defiance21 wrote:Thanks all for your comments i feel a bit better now i should tell you all when i began to question islam:

My grandmother died 19 years ago (she wasn't muslim), i don't remember her at all but my mother who also isn't muslim told me she was very nice always helpful, me and my father were taking about her and i closed the conversation with ''peace be upon her'' and he shouted ''don't say that she is in hell now because she died a kafar''!!i told my mother about it and it made her cry.

I then began to question god and why he would send her to hell just because she wasn't muslim what kind of god is that? she was an extremely kind person it just didn't make any sense to me this isn't the type of god i want to worship, there were of course many other things that made me question islam but this was the start of it all.
Hi Defiance21

I am firmly convinced that in Jesus we have the character and nature of God fully revealed to us. Not as a heartless monster keen to inflict torture and pain and division on his creation, but as a compassionate God who hurts with us, who is there in our darkest times to bring healing and restoration. Jesus said he came to heal the broken hearted and to set the captives free. He also said he came so that we may have life, and have it to the full!

I'm not saying this insensitively to try and convert you, but as a way of contrast to the teachings of Mohammed who I believe was the exact opposite of Jesus, an antichrist. Where Mohammad made judgements, Jesus forgave, kept the company with outcasts, healed the sick and generally sought the restoration of those he met both spiritually and physically. After nearly 20 years of erratically trying to follow him if I'm convinced of one thing, it is this. If you believe in God then HE IS FOR YOU, NOT AGAINST YOU so please do not let your mind be troubled and do not fear, fear makes it's own hell.

Manfred in his post made the point that we could have been made robots that dutifully follow the programme alloted to us, but it's obvious that we are more than that. We are designed to think for ourselves, make mistakes an learn from them, in providing this model, the creator if you can accept that made us independent, and we are enabled choose good from bad, right from wrong— we are set free from just following orders blindly.

Within these possibilities there exists room for hell, we can make it ourselves, here on earth, through oppression, division, injustice and fear, but I'm convinced these are not virtues, nor are they the character traits of God. After all who would want to follow such a God as that.

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enceladus
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by enceladus »

Welcome, defiance21! Good on you for leaving Islam!

Manfred's post said it all, really - (another great post from him, I always enjoy his posts! )
You have nothing whatsoever to fear. Religion is a human invention, made by humans for their own various purposes, and many of those purposes were negative (e.g. maintaining control over the masses by instilling fear, hence the invention of "hell".)

For the record, I am atheist myself, although I do like many aspects of Buddhism's relaxed and very open approach to things, hence the Buddha quote in my sig.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of your posts! Bye for now - best wishes and take care -
- enceladus

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Fathom
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Fathom »

Defiance21 wrote:Hi all,

So obviously i have left islam i know it is a right thing to do and i don't regret but i am still feeling some fear in me mainly hell, judgment day etc...

my question is am i the only one who is feeling this or has anyone experienced this when they left Islam?

I think it has to do with 10 years of teachings about eternal hellfire, judgment day and so on when i was boy i used to have nightmares about those things i am 22 now it's kinda amazing how the stories can stick with you.
Isn’t it marvelous to be a human being? Have you ever thought that when you look upon another person that it is like looking into a mirror? I think that way many times, and the reason I think that way is because I believe that at the very core of our humanity, all people are the same.

I like to believe that almost all people on earth are born with the same mentality. As we begin to grow, we learn what is right and what is wrong in the way that we interact with each other. We learn the basics of what is right and wrong, and then from there it depends on which culture we belong to in which we learn such things as religious belief. We all learn that it is wrong to harm those whom we care about, or to harm anyone in our social structure.

The one thing that I believe that all cultures on the earth believe in is the Golden Rule; “do not do to anyone what you would not want to have done to yourself.” The Golden Rule, also known as “Ethic of reciprocity” is something that is practiced all over the world by almost all of the world’s cultures.

Listed below are the many different variations of the Golden Rule put into practice by all the major religions and cultures on the earth:-

1. Buddhism: “Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.”
2. Baha’i Faith: “Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not.”
3. Christianity: “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.”
4. Confucianism: “Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.”
5. Hinduism: “One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self.”
6. Islam: “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.”
7. Jainism: “Just as pain is not agreeable to you, it is so with others. Knowing this principle of equality treat each other with respect and compassion.”
8. Judaism: “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself.”
9. Taoism: “Regard your neighbor’s gain as your own gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.”

By now, you are probably wondering what my point actually is. Well, the point I am trying to make is that, at the core, almost everyone in the world knows and understands the value of the golden rule. Almost all religions and cultures place the Golden Rule at the core of their teachings and their laws. The Golden Rule is so important in our cultures because it is an innate truth among human beings. It is what we all have in common, and it is what our religious beliefs all teach. Regardless of whether or not Islam puts it into practice like the other religions (there is no good evidence that it does), it is still nonetheless a teaching of Islam. The Golden Rule implies more than just the words we read on our screen. For example, by honoring the Golden Rule you would not steal, kill, lie, commit adultery, nor do anything that would harm another person in any way. In effect, by honoring the Golden Rule, you would not sin the greatest sins against humanity.

You have said that the thing that is making you afraid of leaving Islam is the possibility that if Islam is correct, then you will suffer for all of eternity in a place called hell. Christians who thought about apostatizing also faced the same problem. This is a dilemma commonly known as Pascal’s Wager.

Pascal’s Wager is what it is; a wager. It asks us to gamble our lives on the uncertainty of the existence of God. But life should not be a gamble at all. We don’t need to gamble with our lives when life itself has so much to offer for a certainty. Why spend our lives worshiping something that has never been proven to exist when we can better spend our lives improving ourselves and all of humanity? But let’s suppose for a moment that there is some small chance that Islam is correct, and that despite the lack of evidence to support the existence of Allah, Allah actually exists. The problem then is a matter of what is “probable.”

As human beings, we tend to accept the reality of things based upon factual evidence. Some human beings accept their “beliefs” as reality, when in fact there is no evidence to support their beliefs as actually being truthful. Religious statements in old books do not verify the existence of God for any certainty, for at best the only thing those statements prove for a certainty is that some human at some point in time wrote those words into that old book.

What this means is that the existence of Allah is not really probable for the simple reason that no actual direct evidence has been presented to prove Allah’s existence. This is not your fault, nor the fault of anyone else. If Allah actually existed, then it is Allah's fault that no evidence has been presented. Therefore, since there is no evidence to support the existence of Allah, then why should you gamble the only life you have on worshiping something that has never been proven to exist? Why not go with what you know for certain, with no need to gamble?

You know for a certainty that one day you will die. This is the one common thing among all humanity that we are certain of. We all will die one day. Therefore, why should you gamble your life on things that you are not certain about, such as worshiping a god? Why should you deny yourself the good things in this life that are certain to exist just because you are afraid of something that has never been proven to exist?

The actual provable evidence demonstrates that you have one life to live. And if you live your life according to the Golden Rule- and then when you die you discover that Islam was actually the truth- don’t you think that you could stand before God and say, “I have lived my life according to what was true, certain, and just. It is not my fault that you did not provide reasonable evidence that you existed. You made me this way, therefore will you now blame me for the way I was made by you?“

If God is a reasonable God, then what kind of argument could he give to you? If you spent your life loving the whole human race under the banner of the Golden Rule, and it is God’s fault that he failed to convince you that he existed, then don’t you think that if such a God was actually reasonable and “Merciful” that he would forgive you? If such a God was reasonable and merciful, then it would be a contradiction of him to not forgive you because it is his fault, and not yours.

You have one life to live as far as we know for sure. Do not gamble it on uncertainty of the existence of God as Pascal’s Wager asks you to do. Instead, live your life to the fullest by being kind to others, and harming no one. Do not worry about God, for if such a god exists he will judge you according to your deeds, and not according to your beliefs. After all, if God exists, then it is God’s fault that you do not believe. You will be blameless.

Someone made a great analogy by suggesting that we put ourselves in God’s shoes. He said, “If you were the God of your backyard, would you destroy the ants for not worshiping you?” Do you now see how silly that would be? To God, we are like the ants, so do you really think he will destroy us for not worshiping him? Think about that.

Therefore, not believing is more advantageous because you only know for certain that you have one life to live, so why not take advantage of that one life by living a good life with all of humanity in your heart instead of gambling it on uncertainty? Wouldn’t you rather go with what is certain, rather than make a gamble? If you knew for certain that you could simply get a million dollars as opposed to gambling for it, then isn’t that so much better than buying a lottery ticket?

You have one chance to love the whole world and leave behind a legacy of an exemplary human being. Do not gamble with your one chance. Don’t play the Pascal’s Wager game at all. It is my hope you will live your life well, with good cheer for all, and enduring happiness for yourself!

Peace...

Rovan
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Rovan »

firewall wrote:Jangan menyesal kamu keluar dari islam tahu sndiri nanti di akhirat !
For a religion of peace, you're acting quite like a mafia.
In Indonesian, I speak: Katanya agama pembawa damai, kata-katamu mirip mafia!

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AussieGeo
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by AussieGeo »

Defiance21 wrote:Hi all,

So obviously i have left islam i know it is a right thing to do and i don't regret but i am still feeling some fear in me mainly hell, judgment day etc...

my question is am i the only one who is feeling this or has anyone experienced this when they left Islam?

I think it has to do with 10 years of teachings about eternal hellfire, judgment day and so on when i was boy i used to have nightmares about those things i am 22 now it's kinda amazing how the stories can stick with you.
The threat of hell has been used by religions throughout history to scare people into belief, part of you rejecting islam (and say being an athiest) is to give up on this fairy tale, my advice to you is too live your life, you only have one, do not live your life worrying about the next as there probably isn't one.

Wootah
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Re: So i have left Islam

Post by Wootah »

Well done on leaving Islam. Remember that the whole world isn't that way.

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