Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

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DoubleThink
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Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by DoubleThink »

Dear all,
This is my first post here. Before beginning, I'd like to apologize if I do something inappropriate. Just to get off my chest, I really need to talk about these issues.
Warning: It CAN ( I don't know) be a long story, or perhaps somewhat rumbled up. I am asking your forgiveness.

I am a Muslim , born into such a family, of Turkish descent living in the Netherlands. Over the time there have been issues, "apparent"(I was told so) logical fallacies which I have seen in Islam. Now, Muslims might think that I know little about Islam. No, I know quite a bit, enough to supposedly answers to my questions I should have an answer to, and I have always been humble and a quite boy. These questions on which I didn;t get a satisfactory answer to are as follows: ( An answer like Who are you to question Allah? isn't considered satisfactory as you might have guessed..)

I & Islam:
For some few years, I've been quite serious with Islam, and still do my daily 5x prayers salah, zakat, sawm etc. I have never drunk alcohol, never smoked, never took drugs and never touched a girl ( I am 20 years old). I certainly wouldn't want to leave this religion to do such things. I honestly believe that many of the rules of Islam do humanity good.

1) Why do all non-Muslims go to hell? Why are only we correct? I mean: If I'd be born in the heart of the Bible Belt, SURELY my denomination would be the (only) Truth, and prob. I'd never ever get in Islam. This is the geographical proof/evidence for Pluralism, which asserts that all religions may be equally right. Such a thought is considered Kufr in Islam, and Muslims preaching such a thing are considered Kuffaar. So, even if I'd continue believing, with this extra point, I;d still be considered Kuffaar by most Muslims. Let alone the fact that by sweeping Occams Razor through this makes atheism more plausible.
2) Why is evolution considered evil , while other science is considered good AND is even provided evidence from the Quran? ( Which I wouldn;t consider a miracle, you need some fantasy to make it out of that..) I mean, evolution follows the scientific method, and I know what science is ( I study physics..)
3)Why are most Muslims good, and most (or all) non-Muslims bad? Well, this is NOTT true ofcourse, but I was believed into this for years, SURELY they must be VERY bad people to deserve eternal Hell. I reconciled this thought in me by saying that ( well, it was being said that) Kuffaar didn;t believe because of arrogance, stubbornness, materialism, individualism, and other bad traits and vices. I used to believe that they actually KNEW that Islam was right, but opposed to submerge to it because of the points cited and because they 'd like to go on partying, copulating, drinking etc..
.. Till I discovered that good/badness is quite independant of to which religion someone adheres to...
4) Why is believing without a shred of evidence considered a virtue? The argument goes like this: IF there was absolutely irrefutable evidence, or proof in this case, everyone would believe. But this makes people prone to errors, the most obvious example being the billions of people who refuse to accept Islam as they believe Christianity, which also fails to have 100% irrefutable proof. Why are Christians expected to critically study their religion, but Muslims not? "because they are already at the right track? " Isn't this hypocrisy?

I believe that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good, but I am utterly confused by these questions, and having asked them, never in fact expect a sensibly answer. This would make me ( well, I am in fact) quite liberal in my Aqeedah(=beliefs), to such an extent that many of my current beliefs fall outside the framework of Islam.
Explanation: Before throwing words like "What about 9.11?", let me clarify this. 9.11 ( and all other atrocities done in name of a religion) mis-used religion. Just like the Crusades etc.
Also, the same argumentation could be used to renounce atheism: Mao, Stalin , Hitler(I'd say, he used Catholicism to invoke antisemitism, and used eugenetics based on evo) were atheists..
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pr126
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by pr126 »

Welcome to FFI, DoubleThink.
You wrote:
Explanation: Before throwing words like "What about 9.11?", let me clarify this. 9.11 ( and all other atrocities done in name of a religion) mis-used religion. Just like the Crusades etc.
Also, the same argumentation could be used to renounce atheism: Mao, Stalin , Hitler(I'd say, he used Catholicism to invoke antisemitism, and used eugenetics based on evo) were atheists..
Let me just deal with the last part of your post where you assume your explanation.
All wrong assumptions, I am afraid.

1. The 9/11 was not a misuse of the religion, but strangely enough, following Islam to the letter. See Quran 9:5, 9:29, 9:111 for starters. There are many many more such verses. And since the Quran is considered the word of Allah, it has to be followed.

2. The crusades were a [late] response from the Christians after nearly 400 years of conquest and banditry, piracy by Muslims.

3. The atrocities of Mao, Stalin, Phol Pot was not done in the name of atheism, but because they were simply evil. They forbade religion so they themselves should be worshiped, it is called the cult of personality. Kim Jong Il of North Korea is still one of those.

I am sure others will respond to the rest of your questions.

You are quite right to question your faith, although Quran 5:101 - 102 forbids that.

If you really learned about your faith, the Quran and Muhammad, I doubt that you will remain a Muslim.

.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.
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expozIslam
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by expozIslam »

DoubleThink wrote:Dear all,
This is my first post here.
:welcome:
DoubleThink wrote: Before beginning, I'd like to apologize if I do something inappropriate.

You have not done anything and you are apologising for what?
DoubleThink wrote: Just to get off my chest, I really need to talk about these issues.

that is why we have this forum.
DoubleThink wrote: Warning: It CAN ( I don't know) be a long story, or perhaps somewhat rumbled up.

Your kind of long stories give hope to others.
DoubleThink wrote: I am asking your forgiveness.

from what, for what?
DoubleThink wrote: I am a Muslim , born into such a family, of Turkish descent living in the Netherlands. Over the time there have been issues, "apparent"(I was told so) logical fallacies which I have seen in Islam.

These are not apparent but quite obvious fallacies.
DoubleThink wrote: Now, Muslims might think that I know little about Islam.

Even the best of Imams will end his fatwa with "Allah knows best" because he knows he is not himself convinced fully about what he is saying but dare not doubt what he is saying lest he be dumped in hell for eternity.
DoubleThink wrote: No, I know quite a bit, enough to supposedly answers to my questions I should have an answer to, and I have always been humble and a quite boy.

Read and make up your own mind. People can guide you to read.
DoubleThink wrote: These questions on which I didn;t get a satisfactory answer to are as follows: ( An answer like Who are you to question Allah? isn't considered satisfactory as you might have guessed..)

I & Islam:
For some few years, I've been quite serious with Islam, and still do my daily 5x prayers salah, zakat, sawm etc. I have never drunk alcohol, never smoked, never took drugs and never touched a girl ( I am 20 years old). I certainly wouldn't want to leave this religion to do such things. I honestly believe that many of the rules of Islam do humanity good.

and if you look at what Quran promises in after life , you would wonder why the very things which are haram in this life are rewards in after life, be it the rivers of wine or the 72 white houris who do not menstruate, excrete or will have babies.
DoubleThink wrote: 1) Why do all non-Muslims go to hell? Why are only we correct? I mean: If I'd be born in the heart of the Bible Belt, SURELY my denomination would be the (only) Truth, and prob. I'd never ever get in Islam. This is the geographical proof/evidence for Pluralism, which asserts that all religions may be equally right. Such a thought is considered Kufr in Islam, and Muslims preaching such a thing are considered Kuffaar. So, even if I'd continue believing, with this extra point, I;d still be considered Kuffaar by most Muslims. Let alone the fact that by sweeping Occams Razor through this makes atheism more plausible.
2) Why is evolution considered evil , while other science is considered good AND is even provided evidence from the Quran? ( Which I wouldn;t consider a miracle, you need some fantasy to make it out of that..) I mean, evolution follows the scientific method, and I know what science is ( I study physics..)
3)Why are most Muslims good, and most (or all) non-Muslims bad? Well, this is NOTT true ofcourse, but I was believed into this for years,

This is what cults do. They brainwash people into believing what is not even remotely true.
DoubleThink wrote: SURELY they must be VERY bad people to deserve eternal Hell. I reconciled this thought in me by saying that ( well, it was being said that) Kuffaar didn;t believe because of arrogance, stubbornness, materialism, individualism, and other bad traits and vices. I used to believe that they actually KNEW that Islam was right, but opposed to submerge to it because of the points cited and because they 'd like to go on partying, copulating, drinking etc..
.. Till I discovered that good/badness is quite independant of to which religion someone adheres to...
4) Why is believing without a shred of evidence considered a virtue? The argument goes like this: IF there was absolutely irrefutable evidence, or proof in this case, everyone would believe. But this makes people prone to errors, the most obvious example being the billions of people who refuse to accept Islam as they believe Christianity, which also fails to have 100% irrefutable proof. Why are Christians expected to critically study their religion, but Muslims not? "because they are already at the right track? " Isn't this hypocrisy?

of course it is but that is not the only place where islamic hypocrisy is obious. There are many others.
DoubleThink wrote: I believe that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good,

but none of those are original. The religions and philosophies or pre-islamic era also preached those things and some more.
DoubleThink wrote: but I am utterly confused by these questions, and having asked them, never in fact expect a sensibly answer. This would make me ( well, I am in fact) quite liberal in my Aqeedah(=beliefs), to such an extent that many of my current beliefs fall outside the framework of Islam.

The moment you question why non-muslims would go to hell for eternity is the moment you are no more a muslim.
DoubleThink wrote: Explanation: Before throwing words like "What about 9.11?", let me clarify this. 9.11 ( and all other atrocities done in name of a religion) mis-used religion. Just like the Crusades etc.
Also, the same argumentation could be used to renounce atheism: Mao, Stalin , Hitler(I'd say, he used Catholicism to invoke antisemitism, and used eugenetics based on evo) were atheists..
Mao, Stalin and Hitler all followed and believed in the similar doctrine that islam does. All these doctrines create hatred for people outside the group and in all these doctrines, there is no value for individual unless that individual happens to be the leader himself as was the case with MOhammad as well.
Infact, that is one major reason why you see Nazis, leftists and islamists working together to bring the democratic nations down.

Please continue reading and you shall not feel lost or alone.
“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”
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enceladus
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by enceladus »

Welcome, DoubleThink!

Your post was a good one. What really comes through in it is that it shows that you are a thinker. You seem to think things through very well.

I'll have a go at answering at least a few of your questions -
"1) Why do all non-Muslims go to hell? Why are only we correct? I mean: If I'd be born in the heart of the Bible Belt, SURELY my denomination would be the (only) Truth... "

Yes indeed! Just as an aside, I should mention that I'm an atheist, so I'm coming at your questions from that viewpoint. That means that I don't believe in a god or in heaven or hell.
But yes, you are indeed correct in saying that if you'd been born in the Bible Belt (or anywhere else which is non-Islamic), then yes - whatever the religion was in that place would be viewed by the locals as "the only truth".

This, of course, leads to **lots** of places with "the only truth".... ;)

What I would say is that when it comes to the Quran, all that I need to know myself (in order to know that it is not "from a god") is that it says that the stars are closer to earth than the moon. ( See my thread here on that topic - )
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6679" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is false, of course. If the stars (hot balls of gas) were closer to us than the moon, then the earth would be a roasting ball of lava, and we would not be here!

As I've said a few times, it only takes one pin to pop a balloon. Above, I have "popped" the nonsensical idea that the stars are closer to earth than the moon.

"2) Why is evolution considered evil , while other science is considered good AND is even provided evidence from the Quran?" - Ouch, this is a tricky one.... ;) I have no idea why the Quran considers evolution to be "evil". As for any other mention of "science" in the Quran, I think it can pretty much be dismissed (given how wrong the Quran gets the relationship between the earth, moon and stars.).

"3)Why are most Muslims good, and most (or all) non-Muslims bad? Well, this is NOT true of course, but I was believed into this for years".
Glad to see that you realise that this is not true! The proof that this is not true is easy to see. Us Westerners come to the aid of Muslims whenever there is a tsunami, flood, earthquake or whatever.

"4) Why is believing without a shred of evidence considered a virtue?"
Ahh - this one is a bit easier to answer. It's pretty much all about **power**. About "keeping the people in line". You know the drill - "You must believe! You must not ask questions! Do not have non-believers as friends!" This one ties in a bit with the "us and them" thing too - "Dar al Islam" and "Dar al Harb". Quite a lot easier to get the masses to do your bidding if you can get them to believe that everyone else is an enemy.

Ok, that'll do for now. I hope you'll hang around here for a while and have a good look around. I should mention that when it comes to criticism, we do try to focus on Islam, the *religion* here, rather than the people. As I always say, we try to criticise the house (Islam) rather than those inside it. There are occasional exceptions, of course, but that's the general approach that is taken here.
Bye for now -
- enceladus
DoubleThink
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by DoubleThink »

Hi all,
Thanks for your comments. I have realized that by even thinking about these issues in this rational way, I will be considered a Kuffaar by the majority of the Muslims, though I am convinced of the existence of God and a Hereafter, and would continue basically as a Muslim, worshipping God, trying to make the best out of this life, talking with people with different religions etc.

It's only that I can no longer continue the lie of pretending to believe in everything which is told to me, integrity, honesty is a good thing, and whenever I will be involved in discussions about my arguments as outlined in my first post, I will give my reasoning. However, I'd rather not talk about these issues with the majority around me, as this subject really is too delicate and disturbing.
I have talked to an atheist quite much, and have discussed these issues throughly, however the idea of "nothingness" after this life doesn't make sense to me.
Mr Preet
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by Mr Preet »

I & Islam:
For some few years, I've been quite serious with Islam, and still do my daily 5x prayers salah, zakat, sawm etc. I have never drunk alcohol, never smoked, never took drugs and never touched a girl ( I am 20 years old). I certainly wouldn't want to leave this religion to do such things. I honestly believe that many of the rules of Islam do humanity good.
You make it look like to be a 'filthy kuffar' you are to indulge yourself in all vices known to man, like it is a command from the kuffar god, is that it? Lemme tell you 'holy' kid, it is not wrong to touch or to be with girls, it is not wrong or sinful to smoke, take drugs or to drink alcohol. It is wrong only if one ABUSE or OVERDO them. Mohammad or Allah should have known better. There are circumstances where one HAVE to touch or be with girls and you know that. Allah did not think hard enough. It is not just sex, sex, sex... There is nothing wrong with charging interest (riba). In the days of old there were very few lenders (mostly individual rich people) and they charge exorbitant rates WITH MINIMAL OR NO REGULATORY BODY like we have today in the form of Central Banks and Financial Authorities. By prohibiting it outright Allah is simply not ALL KNOWING.

Now, you believe that many rules of Islam do humanity good. Give us examples. Just tell us what has Islam brought to mankind that has never before being known or practised by mankind until the coming of Islam?

1) Why do all non-Muslims go to hell? Why are only we correct? I mean: If I'd be born in the heart of the Bible Belt, SURELY my denomination would be the (only) Truth, and prob. I'd never ever get in Islam. This is the geographical proof/evidence for Pluralism, which asserts that all religions may be equally right. Such a thought is considered Kufr in Islam, and Muslims preaching such a thing are considered Kuffaar. So, even if I'd continue believing, with this extra point, I;d still be considered Kuffaar by most Muslims. Let alone the fact that by sweeping Occams Razor through this makes atheism more plausible.
You are right, every belief has that "only us are good, holy, true or saved" but while MOST other religions don't translate that into physicals deeds ISLAM DOES, and that's what gets on the nerves of ALL KUFFAR in the UNIVERSE. Calling me filthy is one thing but taking it a step further by making it a divine thing to rob, kill and plunder me (just because I am a filthy kuffar) is quite another.
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enceladus
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by enceladus »

DoubleThink wrote:Hi all,
Thanks for your comments.
(snip)
You're welcome....
DoubleThink wrote: It's only that I can no longer continue the lie of pretending to believe in everything which is told to me,

That is a very good approach to things. Again, you come across as a good thinker.

Although I am an atheist, I do have a "soft spot" for Buddhism (although I don't believe in it as such). Anyway, I think you'll like this quote by Buddha -

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
- Buddha

In other words, he's saying "don't even believe me (Buddha), just because it is me saying it." Very refreshing for a religious figure to say that!
DoubleThink wrote: integrity, honesty is a good thing, and whenever I will be involved in discussions about my arguments as outlined in my first post, I will give my reasoning. However, I'd rather not talk about these issues with the majority around me, as this subject really is too delicate and disturbing.

That is fair enough, and quite understandable.
DoubleThink wrote: I have talked to an atheist quite much, and have discussed these issues throughly, however the idea of "nothingness" after this life doesn't make sense to me.
Also fair enough!
- enceladus
Eopithecus
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by Eopithecus »

I'd like to ask a question of you. Why isn't belief in God alone not sufficient but as a Muslim you must also believe in Muhammad a vey vile and evil man? I mean to me it just doesn't make since out of all the billions and billions of worlds out in space, the Creator God of the entire universe demands people to obey a man thats been dead centuries. This would mean people of the planet Gorignak 8, even if they were blue with 8 arms but to be Muslims they must think like, and obey a 7th century Arab and then visit his homeland on Haj. What if these aliens lived on a world where it is always daylight, how would these people celebrate Ramadan by fasting, they would just starve to death. My answer to this, is the belief that the Meccans were right about Muhammad and his cobbled together fairy stories and fables. Muhammad simply wasn't a prophet and Islam is no more a religion than the flying horse he rode in on.

Christ didn't demand belief, he said follow me, obey God
Moses didn't demand belief he said follow me, obey God
Muhammad said obey me and God or I and my followers will kill you.
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enceladus
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by enceladus »

Good points indeed, Eopithecus!

Are you still here, DoubleThink? It'd be good to hear from you again. Lots of good stuff in this thread to think about, of course... ;)
- enceladus
DoubleThink
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by DoubleThink »

Sure I am here.
The thing is, you keep on claiming things about the Prophet, that he was a very bad man, and you do have evidence to support your claims. However, the Muslim community says he was a very good person and they too have lots of evidence to support their evidence.
I mean: This is getting something like holocaust denial...
yeezevee
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by yeezevee »

DoubleThink wrote:Sure I am here.
The thing is, you keep on claiming things about the Prophet, that he was a very bad man, and you do have evidence to support your claims. However, the Muslim community says he was a very good person and they too have lots of evidence to support their evidence.
I mean: This is getting something like holocaust denial...
welcome to ffi dear "DoubleThink"., you do have a point there that one side says Prophet was bad and other sides prophet was the best? that is not the point., You being well educated, you should be able to read both sides and make your own judgment. In fact in 2010, it really doesn't matter whether Muhammad(PBUH) was bad or good., it is irrelevant to me unless one is looking in to comarartive investigation of all alleged prophets., What is important how good are the Muslims.

But tell about this dear DoubleThink., you write this
I believe that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good, but I am utterly confused by these questions, and having asked them, never in fact expect a sensibly answer. This would make me ( well, I am in fact) quite liberal in my Aqeedah(=beliefs), to such an extent that many of my current beliefs fall outside the framework of Islam.
Explanation: Before throwing words like "What about 9.11?", let me clarify this. 9.11 ( and all other atrocities done in name of a religion) mis-used religion. Just like the Crusades etc.
Also, the same argumentation could be used to renounce atheism: Mao, Stalin , Hitler(I'd say, he used Catholicism to invoke antisemitism, and used eugenetics based on evo) were atheists..
Forget 9/11., forget Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, forget BAD MUSLIMS., but tell about that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good,

Could you please list them here., It is very important to educate the folks on that..

with best wishes
yeezevee
Eopithecus
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by Eopithecus »

It is important to spread Islam
It is important to fight unbelievers
It is important to hide women
Act offended like Muhammad
Infidel women can be raped
Non-Muslims aren't as good as Muslims
Muslims can steal from non-believers
Allah understands only Arabic
Muslim women aren't as good as muslim men
Arabs are the best Muslims
Prayer,Fasting and Haj not as important as Jihad and Muhammad.
Obeying Muhammad is obeying Allah
7th Century Arabism is Sharia Laww
Heaven is drunken sex with virgins and pearly boys
Hell is for Women
Beat women lightly
Child Brides

This garbage isn't good for humanity, it was good for Muhammad and his army of bandits. The real sad thing is, I am not exaggerating.
DoubleThink
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by DoubleThink »

Okay, you have asked me a few things, let's try to reply on them: The answers conform with the branch of Islam I was raised with. You too are aware of the fact that there are quite some interpetations. I urge you to ask Muslim themselves, let's get to answers now:

It is important to spread Islam YES
It is important to fight unbelievers HMMM, YES/NO DEPENDS
It is important to hide women NO. THEY SHOULD COVER THEMSELVES, BUT E.G. MY MOTHER COVERS NOT COZ OF FEAR FROM MY FATHER.
Act offended like Muhammad NO COMMENT ON THIS.
Infidel women can be raped CERTAINLY NO!!! EVEN FORNICATION WITH "INFIDEL" WOMEN IS STRONGLY PROHIBITED!
Non-Muslims aren't as good as Muslims THIS IS TRUE
Muslims can steal from non-believers NOOO!!
Allah understands only Arabic WELL, YES/NO. MUSLIMS PRAY IN ARABIC AS THAT IS THE DEFACTO LANGUAGE OF HEAVEN, AND THE WAY THE PROPHET TAUGHT US
Muslim women aren't as good as muslim men NOT PER SE
Arabs are the best Muslims CERTAINY NOO!
Prayer,Fasting and Haj not as important as Jihad and Muhammad. THIS IS PERHAPS THE BIGGEST BS ON THIS SITE! CERTAINLY NO!
Obeying Muhammad is obeying Allah THIS IS TRUE
7th Century Arabism is Sharia Laww WELL,... YES/NO IN FACT.
Heaven is drunken sex with virgins and pearly boys HMM, I GUESS SO. BUT THE MORE DEVOUT MUSLIMS THINK OF HEAVEN AS MEETING UP WITH ALLAH, BEING THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE
Hell is for Women MOST HELLENERS ARE WOMEN, TRUE
Beat women lightly TRUE, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN RESTRICTION
Child Brides HMM, MY IMAM DENIES THE FACT THAT HE MARRIED HER AS SHE WAS 9YEARS OLD, THE MAINSTREAM ISLAMIC COMMUNITY SAYS 16YEARS WHEN SHE MARRIED....

Now, you are accusing Muslims of using only one-sided hadeeth, emphasizing the kindly, benovelent nature of the prophet, by being kind to orphans, children, and hadeeth like "The heaven lies under Mothers' feeth." Anyone claiming to be/were a Muslims would know that one. Likewise, there are many hadeeth which preach goodness to neighbours (explicitly mentioning without discrimanating on religion), doing good to parents etc.

Don't be one-sided: There are many hadeeth like that.
Yes, this was a post in defence of Islam, as I already mentioned, I have difficulty believing in certain things, but I will consider myself a Muslim and will not turn my back against it. Just my 0.02€.
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manfred
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by manfred »

A welcome from me too... :)

Perhaps it is easier to start with one issue at the time...

You said spreading Islam is a good thing... so, what advantages would Islam bring to Holland? Suppose Holland had an Islamic majority, an Islamic government, and most churches have gone. What would daily life be like? Is this Holland a better place? Why?

What about individuals, how does Islam improve their lives?

Can we chat about this for a bit,and then look at some of the other points?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
Eopithecus
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by Eopithecus »

I don't mean to be insulting but I wasn't asking for comments on my short, but factual list of Islamic teachings. These items are not even open for debate, they simply exist as facts. That you disagree with some and stay Muslim is the true howler. I guess 1400 years of Arab excuses is good enough to believe for some people.

In a hadith it is stated most important in Islam is Belief, Jihad, folowed by Haj then Prayer. Of course you won't deal with it because you won't want too.

Didn't Allah speak Hebrew first then Latin and last came Arabic. Kind of amazing their exist cultures outside the Arabic Muslim World. I don't hold out hope that you will appreciate this, since you are better than any non-Muslim in the universe. Since Allah exsted always does he have to believe in Muhammad to to be Muslim? Otherwise Allah would be diobeying Muhammad right?

Caravan raiding isn't stealing? Expelling Jews from their own homes and apprpriating them for your own use is not stealing? Muslims have bizarre beliefs but this is Muhammad's example you must follow, stealing from non-believers.

What I was asking questions about you ignored completely in my post before the one you answered

What does a Muslim's right hand possess, that is lawful to screw? Is the answer Indidel Women?

16 year old girls don't play with dolls. Your Imam simply parrots Arab excuses. Aisha was 6 and screwed at 9. Do you read newspaper headlines at all about Child Marriages, Child Selling, Child wanting divorce from 80 year old man. for fricking Allah's sake they are all over the place doa search.

Islam isn't your heritage it is your prison!!!
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pr126
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by pr126 »

Doublethink wrote:
I believe that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good,


yeezevee wrote:
Forget 9/11., forget Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, forget BAD MUSLIMS., but tell about that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good,

Could you please list them here., It is very important to educate the folks on that..
I would like narrow down that list to only those good things, which did not exist before Muhammad's Islam.

Something new and good for humanity in the Qur'an, that has not been already written in any of the books of other
religions centuries before Muhammad.

That would be very useful to know.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.
AbdulRahman
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Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by AbdulRahman »

pr126 wrote:Doublethink wrote:
I believe that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good,


yeezevee wrote:
Forget 9/11., forget Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, forget BAD MUSLIMS., but tell about that many of the things Islam preaches do humanity good,

Could you please list them here., It is very important to educate the folks on that..
I would like narrow down that list to only those good things, which did not exist before Muhammad's Islam.

Something new and good for humanity in the Qur'an, that has not been already written in any of the books of other
religions centuries before Muhammad.

That would be very useful to know.
Ditto.
Tell me the good things in Islamic teaching that are not found elsewhere?
On September 12, 2006, while lecturing on "Faith, Reason and the University" at the University of Regensburg, where he was formerly a professor, Pope Benedict quoted the opinion of Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaiologos, "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".
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Cassie
Posts: 2523
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:32 am

Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by Cassie »

DoubleThink,
It is NOT mainstream Islamic thinking that Muhammad married Aisha when she was 16. There is no valid evidence that it is true. None at all. Your Imam is lying to you. Why don't you ask him for the evidence?

Just because Muhammad was kind to Muslims doesn't mean he wasn't evil. He was a war-mongering bandit who killed people and stole their belongings, and allowed his men to pillage and rape. He sold little children as slaves. How can a good person do these things?

So what if Muhammad said, "heaven lies beneath a mother's feet"? It's common sense. Every people also love their mothers. It's not as if that is a virtue that is only practised in Islam. People before and after Islam also believe such things.
Mr Preet
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:17 pm

Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by Mr Preet »

Yeah DT, what's new in Islam? Ask your Imam! As shown by AbdulRahman this is one age old nagging question! Please respond!
Eopithecus
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: Some thoughts about Islam, need ur comments

Post by Eopithecus »

Child Rights UnIslamic

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/n ... 10-010.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sex with Animals and Babies

http://www.homa.org/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rape of non-believers

http://humanrights.change.org/petitions ... n_pakistan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Selling Children

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;\06\01\story_1-6-2010_pg12_3

More Child marriages

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/05/31 ... marriages/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rape Jihad

http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10050157.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Forced Child Marriage

http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=22563" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More Rape Jihad

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://lionheartuk.blogspot.com/2008/04 ... koran.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://simulev.blogspot.com/2005/11/rap ... weden.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://sheikyermami.com/2010/02/25/catmeat-rape-jihad/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://phinqu.com/wordpress/?p=169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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