I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

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sidsid
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I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

So if you recall my last post (you probably don't since it was months ago--though it's titled: I'd like some advice please), It was when I first considered leaving Islam (though looking back on it, I was deceiving myself thinking I believed any of it anyway--I had not prayed or thought about God in years...until of course I was going through some crazed teenage hormonal thing).

Since that post, I've come a long way. I am an official apostate (in my head) and to some friends. I've not been on this site in months and frankly forgot my password but kept trying today till I got it. But I digress.

On to the important things. Islam is just done for and I am against Judeo-Islamic-christian theology in general and I want to do what I can in my life to bring it down further. Futile though that effort may seem, we all have to create our purpose. To me these religions represent huge malformations in human society. I won't bring up beief in God because that is something reserved for other sections of this forum. But I will say that after leaving Islam, it's been hard accepting that I'll probably never be able to tell my parents (well my mother at least) but It's worth it to be rational and to be able to do what I can for the world to be rational as well.

Life is good, I'd like to say religion stinks but I'll stick to Islam as these are testimonies of leaving Islam. I could have been more serious about this and shared many things but I won't. It is enough to know that I have left Islam and for all the right reasons. What are the right reasons? Well if you insist I might answer...

So to all of you who try to do what I do, that is to get people to see the TRUE light--the way away from Islam, I made this post just so you know your efforts are not wasted and let's do what we can to make this list of testimonies grow! I honestly expected to have to search for my post in order to find what my username was and admittedly was dissapointed that it was still on the very first page. Oh well, :)

Edit: I'm going to have my previous post deleted. It is rather painful to read how childish I was and I don't want anyone to be misconstrued by anything I said there. Also, reading through it, I saw it had become a bit of a bloody battleground. :) Although I'd like to thank everyone who participated in the discussion, even the trolls (kind-of) and especially those who were kind and helped out. ^_^
Last edited by sidsid on Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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expozIslam
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by expozIslam »

That was quite fast ;)
Congratulation for making two very big and very right decisions in one day.
a) Decision to leave islam after learning about it
b) Decision to whatever you can to spread the awareness about religious dogma in general and Islam in particular.
“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”
sidsid
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

expozIslam wrote:That was quite fast ;)
Congratulation for making two very big and very right decisions in one day.
I remember youu :). Still have those pms. andd, It was faster than you think. I decided something and then did research to see if my decision was justified.
expozIslam wrote: a) Decision to leave islam after learning about it
Careful, ExpozIslam, this decision was not made today ^_^ :P
I've had time to stew and the results are quite delicious if I may say so. No animals were harmed.
expozIslam wrote: b) Decision to whatever you can to spread the awareness about religious dogma in general and Islam in particular.
[/quote]

Again, not today. A friend helped me with this (she's not muslim, but is an atheist). I've read things on religion and God (my favourite is Richard Dawkins' The God delusion), and this was when I made the decision to act out. I was simply able to make the statement here today. Again, I know I'm being picky but it can be a good thing!

I wouldn't say I'd do whatever I could, but I'd like to leave the earth knowing that in my split-second of being alive here (relative to cosmic time-scales) I've done something to better human society even if its small, by helping in the fight against religion. Having experience (if only a little) in Islam means I'd understand the muslims' points of views and be able to effectively help them. Although of course, they won't see it as help but rather that I'm a devil in disguise. I'd like my horns, please.
yeezevee
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by yeezevee »

welcome back again dear sidsid., boy you change your views on religions and Atheism as if you change your dress every day..lol
I decided something and then did research to see if my decision was justified.
I am going to counter question you on that., What research did you do and how do you justify leaving Islam??

viewtopic.php?f=18&p=77462" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

read what you wrote and what other wrote to you in the above link

with best wishes
yeezevee
sidsid
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

yeezevee wrote:welcome back again dear sidsid., boy you change your views on religions and Atheism as if you change your dress every day..lol
I don't have a good memory. I change my mind easily. :/ and I don't wear dresses. But you could settle with changing shoes, I change those quite a bit.

What research did you do and how do you justify leaving Islam??
Let me start by saying that I never actually felt like I ever left it....like I didn't sit down or stand up or whatever and make it official or even think about it. Why is this? Because It wasn't as if I was changing any habits. I never prayed, i never thought of God unless angry, and I hadn't read the Quran in years ( I don't even understand Arabic and only attempted breifly to read the english version before.)

For me leaving Islam did not feel like I was leaving Islam. I realize now that I was never immersed in it. I would go into detail about this but I'll spare you. This entire justification was more along the premise of believing in God in the first place. I read books on religion and God, also on various scientific theories that are irrelevant, and Evolution which IS relevant.

I don't believe in God because of the lack of evidence for he/she/it. While this lead me to agnosticism at first, I eventually went further into agnostic Atheism. Where, I cannot prove God doesn't exist, but I disbelieve in God (s) because there is no evidence for it/she/he. This is a rational disbelief.

To be honest, the whole leaving Islam part never really hit me but initially letting go of my lovely confidante at times of horrible anger AKA the one True God was a little disconcerting at first. It did sadden me, but only briefly.Science, friends, and my enthusiasm for learning more about the world kept me fueled, kept me hooked in a way that God and religion had never done. It still hooks me, and it still fuels me to go on.

I hope I've clarified why I never felt like I was ever justifying leaving Islam. Though of course, I did obviously. It was never important to me, which is why i don't miss it. you can't miss something you never had to begin with, and which was only used sparingly and can be replaced easily by other things...like a good dose of medication to keep the damned anger at bay. (just kidding)
viewtopic.php?f=18&p=77462" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

read what you wrote and what other wrote to you in the above link
If you're referring to the 9/11 thing, it was an innocent little belief onmy part at least so don't go on about how it may not be innocent for others. I've read things about skepticism and am more careful about things like that. After all, I'm only sixteen and I found it offensive that people seemed to think that correlated with my muslim background. While the majority of 9/11 conspiracy theorists may be muslims and muslims actively seek to to find conspiracy theories for the event, i think all the documentaries and movies on the subject will show that it is not only muslims who think this.

to clarify this, I don't think 9/11 was a conspiracy. I think there is something fishy and we don't know the whole truth but am neutral and have no opinions regarding the matter.
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Ibn Rushd
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Ibn Rushd »

Congrats on your journey. It took me 2 years to finally see that Islam was wrong and false.
There is no Master but the Master, and QT-1 is his Prophet.

Asimov's robot story "Reason"
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Eliphaz
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Eliphaz »

Congratulations my friend. You're the first person I know of who has apostatized more recently than I have (11th November 2009 - what a blessed day that was). :roll:

You seem younger than myself though, I am somewhat jealous that you managed to get out of Islam sooner than I did! And I totally 'get' what you're saying about needing to create a purpose for oneself after one discards that old life of living to serve the authority of Allah. I do understand that you want to do what you can to remove religion from our society, as there is that sense that we have all been betrayed by religion (I feel the same as you do about religion in general).

If, how, and when we can make these changes is something I am still pondering - after an initial period of "must...stop...Islam" activeness I kind of slumped into a sense of "meh, let them figure it out themselves, I've spent enough time dealing with this religion". But then Islam never really leaves you, so here I am again. I think you have made the first step by declaring your apostasy on this site. Well done! :rock:
sidsid
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

I've been an apostate since november and have been telling friends who are muslim. I don't back down on what i believe or disbelief. The only people i keep it from are parents and relatives to protect their little psychees.

but thanks I know what you mean. I actually haven't prayed since I was 12 or 13 among other things--like being a hypocrite. so i've been a kafirr for a long time but have recently made my apostacy official. Don't be jealous be happy you got out! some never do ):<. scratch that...most never do.
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enceladus
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by enceladus »

Welcome back, sidsid! Good on you for leaving islam!

On seeing someone leave Islam, I get the same feeling that I did seeing the East Germans celebrate when the Wall came down - just really great to see!

Very best wishes for the future - bye for now -
- enceladus
Mr Preet
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Mr Preet »

I think it is not too late for me to welcome the 2 of you, Eli and Sid to humanity.

Eli is too right about the :
....... "meh, let them figure it out themselves, I've spent enough time dealing with this religion".....
syndrome, if I may call it that. I too 'fight' Islam because it rears its ugly head into my life even when I want to have nothing to do with it. There was this chain e-mail circulating about not doing anything against Nazism, communism etc until it was too late to act.
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Eliphaz
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Eliphaz »

Mr Preet wrote:I think it is not too late for me to welcome the 2 of you, Eli and Sid to humanity.
Thanks Mr Preet, feels good to be home! :oops:
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matt2842
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by matt2842 »

Dear sidsid:
congratulations for seeing the truth, I just hope that it doesn't stop you there and you can see that is not only the islam that is full of nonesense but is all the beleif system that you need to concider.

best wishes
sidsid
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

Thanks for the warm welcomes. Yes, Matt, judeo-christian-Islamic theology is done for in my case. Any other religion...while more peaceful than those, are not what I'm looking for either. I prefer truth, facts, and science. Not delusion. :)
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Ibn Rushd
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Ibn Rushd »

Wow, and you're a girl too!! I'm glad for you. So many ppl in Islamic countries are seeing through Islam now that it's encrouching in their lives more than ever before. Happened in Nigeria, Sharia was enforced and they realised that what they were doing wasn't that, so they converted to Christianity because it was closer to what they were doing.
There is no Master but the Master, and QT-1 is his Prophet.

Asimov's robot story "Reason"
sidsid
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

I guess, Ibn Rushid. I have hope (little though it may be) that the number of apostates might increase. I don't think an increase in numbers will suffice. Muslim apostates specifically have got to come out of the closet--like homosexuals. Unfortunately, like myself, I do not think that I shall ever be able to do so to my parents and that is a sad matter indeed! :-|
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Eliphaz
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Eliphaz »

sidsid wrote:I guess, Ibn Rushid. I have hope (little though it may be) that the number of apostates might increase. I don't think an increase in numbers will suffice. Muslim apostates specifically have got to come out of the closet--like homosexuals. Unfortunately, like myself, I do not think that I shall ever be able to do so to my parents and that is a sad matter indeed! :-|
I agree with the homosexuality-apostasy parallel you have drawn, and I agree that "coming out" is probably our greatest weapon against Islam. But Islam is the only religion I know of which prescribes the death penalty for apostates, and this is what stops most people from declaring their apostasy openly.

Why don't you feel you will be able to tell your parents, sidsid?
sidsid
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

Sigh, it's complicated.
How can I tell them? Knowing this is the one life I get to live, I know I won't meet my parents in any after-life. There is to be no rejoicing in paradise. What does this mean for me? That I don't get a second family, a second chance at making them happy. They've brought us to Canada, leaving behind family in Pakistan and the past few years haven't exactly been easy. To them it would be the ultimate failure to think that they could have prevented their daughter from renouncing the Islamic faith--and if your parents are muslim you know that it's a bad thing to do (putting it mildly). I don't want to see them suffer, I don't want to have them feel they need to alienate me. This is for them and for me also. It's because I don't want to be alienated. I love my family.

When you believe something like that, and believe your child is going to burn in hell, how do you live with yourself? I don't want to put that added stress onto their shoulders when they've done so much for me and my siblings.

Also, about your apostacy comment-- the sad thing is that my muslim friends don't even know Islam. I know it better than they do but they believe it so whole-heartedly, they make excuses for it. I can't even consider any muslim country worth going to for an extended period of time. why should i force myself in an environment where people would not hesitate to kill me for the simple fact that I've decided to renounce something they believe in. So much for 'God gave us free will.' If that's true than God should let us decide to waste our life and burn in hell for eternity. Wouldn't that be enough? Do they have to kill us and remove our ability to at least appreciate what they like to call this life as---'a test'?

Anyway that's me ranting a bit. :/ :(
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Eliphaz
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Eliphaz »

No, I see your point. I have a similar situation, my mother is from Pakistan also. She knows now, whether I would have wanted her to or not (I didn't), and it has really taken its toll on her. If I could turn back the clock and stop her from finding out, I would. But what's done is done. However, she is starting to realise that belief is not something you can push others into and that it is therefore not her "fault".

I believe that it also depends on how religious one's parents are, how much they actually invested in you Islamically (or how much they think they have). I have found that Pakistani parents are amongst the most zealous in terms of "keeping up appearances" though amongst the most laid-back in terms of actually practising Islam. Of course, you know your parents best. If there was any chance of convincing them to also leave Islam without hurting them too much, I would say go for it, but I understand some parents might disown their kids (I am not sure if this will happen with me, my mother thinks I am slowly coming back to Islam) so you are probably right to keep it secret.
Ram
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by Ram »

sidsid wrote:Sigh, it's complicated.
I am impressed that you are able to articulate your thaughts so clearly at such young age.
How can I tell them? Knowing this is the one life I get to live, I know I won't meet my parents in any after-life. There is to be no rejoicing in paradise. What does this mean for me? That I don't get a second family, a second chance at making them happy.
Nobody knows what happens in afterlife. I have never heard from anyone after they have left this life. I am sure nobody has. So why worry?
They've brought us to Canada, leaving behind family in Pakistan and the past few years haven't exactly been easy. To them it would be the ultimate failure to think that they could have prevented their daughter from renouncing the Islamic faith--and if your parents are muslim you know that it's a bad thing to do (putting it mildly). I don't want to see them suffer, I don't want to have them feel they need to alienate me. This is for them and for me also. It's because I don't want to be alienated. I love my family. When you believe something like that, and believe your child is going to burn in hell, how do you live with yourself? I don't want to put that added stress onto their shoulders when they've done so much for me and my siblings.
Your parents like many people from many countries came to Canada to make a better life for themselves. I am sure thay came here for your sake and as well for their own sake. I am not saying that you should not appreciate waht your parents did for you but also remember that they came here to get away from life in Pakistan.
Also, about your apostacy comment-- the sad thing is that my muslim friends don't even know Islam. I know it better than they do but they believe it so whole-heartedly, they make excuses for it.

Young people really don’t know about their religion. This is true for Muslims and non-Muslims alike. The best way to make them understand is to ask them questions. This will get them thinking - non threatening simple comments and questions.
I can't even consider any muslim country worth going to for an extended period of time. why should i force myself in an environment where people would not hesitate to kill me for the simple fact that I've decided to renounce something they believe in.
I know exactly how you feel. I was born in Pakistan but we were forced to move to India in 1947. My family can trace their roots on my father’s as well my mother’s side family for hundreds of years. We were among the original inhabitants of Sindh before the arrival of Muhammad bin Qasim in the eighth century – the first Muslim terrorist commander to invade India. After defeating the Hindu King Dahir he beheaded every Brahmin priest. He had them lined up in rows and had his men behead them one by one.

Qasim took two daughters of the King and sent them to the Caliph as gifts. The princess realized what was about to happen to them. They knew that they will be kept as sex slaves and sold when they would get older. They told a lie to the Caliph. They told him that they were not virgins and were deflowered by Muhammad bin Qasim. The girls were put to death promptly. Qasim was executed when he got back to his country.
So much for 'God gave us free will.' If that's true than God should let us decide to waste our life and burn in hell for eternity. Wouldn't that be enough? Do they have to kill us and remove our ability to at least appreciate what they like to call this life as---'a test'
I agree. But that’s the beauty of Islam. You have free will so long as you do not exercise it. Quran repeats hundreds of times that Allah is kind and compassionate but he commands Muslims to torture and kill kaffirs if they do not submit – i.e. convert to Islam. Islamic scriptures are full of oxymoron.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.
sidsid
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Re: I'm back and I'm an apostate. CHYEAH.

Post by sidsid »

Eliphaz wrote:No, I see your point. I have a similar situation, my mother is from Pakistan also. She knows now, whether I would have wanted her to or not (I didn't), and it has really taken its toll on her. If I could turn back the clock and stop her from finding out, I would. But what's done is done. However, she is starting to realise that belief is not something you can push others into and that it is therefore not her "fault".
I haven't prayed in years. I say mhm, okay. I'll do it. Sometimes pretend to. Pretending is taking its toll on me, wearing the hijab is taking its toll on me, and restricting myself from truly voicing everything is taking its toll on me. Next year I hope to graduate and get away from it all but even that seems hard because financially, Uni would be affordable if i stay home...but not if I leave.

Anyway, today, my mother noticed my nail-polish yet again and asked me. "Are you really muslim?" I think deep down she knows I'm not, because I used to ask questions/make comments on Islam. She once said she needs "to get me to see someone because of my dangerous thoughts." My brother also suspects because he saw some of the things I've been reading and made a comment to my parents in passing: "She's reading things no muslim should read." This was in reference to "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. But that's another story and I won't bore you with it

"Are you really muslim?" This time I felt slight panic. Oh sh!t, I thought, can she read through my disguise? Are my emotions playing on my face? I just said yeah and dropped silent. She did her usual sigh and self-deprecating expression.

A part of me so badly yearned to say. "No." As quick as the thought came...it was gone. I felt this indescribable sense of constriction as I let my walls down.

I suppose I will never tell her. A part of me envies what you did.
I believe that it also depends on how religious one's parents are, how much they actually invested in you Islamically (or how much they think they have).
I don't know how to judge this. My parents have mentioned stories in passing and there are some things they are adamant about but while people like to protest that there are 'no cultural muslims' I'd beg to differ. I remember being told stories, I went to the masjid to recite the Quran when I was little, and my mother definitely wants me to be a 'better person." I don't think this translates to a better muslim because She would like me to be more gentle (I am usually a very outspoken and crass person), more helpful, kind, more modest in what I wear (this comes from religion/culture).

I'd say they've done a moderate amount but clearly not enough to make me buy it.

I have found that Pakistani parents are amongst the most zealous in terms of "keeping up appearances" though amongst the most laid-back in terms of actually practising Islam.
I agree with this. I guess maybe when I'm older and they guess or something, I won't deny it. I'll simply say that I won't do anything to make them 'bow their head in shame in society.' You know the whole, 'my daughter is a slut,' deal--which I think they'd find worse. Though to be fair, they didn't kill me when they found out I had a boyfriend and saw the not-so-innocent emails being passed back and forth. There was anger but there was forgiveness and my mom did slap me. It was my Dad who tried to make me eat and was kind in the days after--though he admittedly told my mother what he'd found out.

I don't want to go through that again.

I guess that kind of shows where my parents stand in reference to your comment. My mom worries more about 'what we'll do when we're in our graves." Then anything else. IT is the classic example of using fear to acheive your means. I can't remember hearing her talk about God lovingly as I feel some of the pious do--though usually those are Christians not muslims.

Of course, you know your parents best. If there was any chance of convincing them to also leave Islam without hurting them too much, I would say go for it, but I understand some parents might disown their kids (I am not sure if this will happen with me, my mother thinks I am slowly coming back to Islam) so you are probably right to keep it secret.
You have no idea how badly I want to tell them, to just be open with them. I think there may be a chance with my Dad. He is old though, and a gentle being--and to be honest tears come into my eyes while I write this and think about telling him because I feel as If I'd be crushing their souls (whatever that's supposed to be). I think I might someday though. He isn't quick to anger like my mother and me, he is most like me. We both think too much. Writing this, I begin to hope that I could tell him someday and I feel positive he wouldn't disown me.

My mother on the other hand would be devastated. I think to her, there is nothing worse than a kaffir. I would never tell her. She is too much like the rash side of me. Quick to anger but never one to hold a grudge. She may get over it and accept me eventually, but I fear she wouldn't be able to put aside the belief in God and an afterlife.

Thanks for making me think lol :P and I apologize about the length of this reply.
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