After Apostasy: identification

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Shaunm1963
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:06 pm

After Apostasy: identification

Post by Shaunm1963 »

Hi, I have a question for anyone who has made that leap of faith and renounced islam. My question is in good faith (no pun intended).

When I hear muslims talk they are quite clear about their identity. They refer to themselves as muslim as if they are a distinct and unique 'race' of humankind. A person may wear many hats: one could be a father, a mailman, a windsurfer, a Christian, an alcoholic. They are all of these things but they are also none, as they are only really Homo sapiens wearing at different times, a different hat. But with muslims, there is no hat; muslim is what they are. Beyond that they could wear any other hat, whether it be politician, European, Iraqi, brother, sister...whatever. But at the end of the day they are still and only muslim.

When someone becomes an apostate of islam, does that person still consider themselves to be a muslim? Or does the 'label' also go and the person is then free to be all they wish to be or nothing at all?

Do apostates of islam also scrape off the label of being a muslim?



Thanks.

yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by yeezevee »

1). When someone becomes an apostate of islam, does that person still consider themselves to be a muslim? Or does the 'label' also go and the person is then free to be all they wish to be or nothing at all?
Answer is pretty much yes., if one is still living around Muslim family/community and would like to keep friendly/healthy relationship to his/her Islamic family., They may not go to Mosque.. Pray five times a day.. may not have that correct length beard or Burkha but they have to ACT as Muslim around certain group of Muslims..
Do apostates of islam also scrape off the label of being a muslim?
Some Do and they openly come out... Often loose childhood friends and even close family relationships..

with best regards
yeezevee
Last edited by yeezevee on Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Shaunm1963
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:06 pm

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by Shaunm1963 »

Thanks Yeezevee

joseph
Posts: 955
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:43 pm

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by joseph »

-

I have fully discussed Desertion and Apostasy in another thread where Atheists fled the debate.

You can wonder why.

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:)
-

Ram
Posts: 2136
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:40 am

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by Ram »

Shaunm1963 wrote:Hi, I have a question for anyone who has made that leap of faith and renounced islam. My question is in good faith (no pun intended).

When I hear muslims talk they are quite clear about their identity. They refer to themselves as muslim as if they are a distinct and unique 'race' of humankind. A person may wear many hats: one could be a father, a mailman, a windsurfer, a Christian, an alcoholic. They are all of these things but they are also none, as they are only really Homo sapiens wearing at different times, a different hat. But with muslims, there is no hat; muslim is what they are. Beyond that they could wear any other hat, whether it be politician, European, Iraqi, brother, sister...whatever. But at the end of the day they are still and only muslim.

When someone becomes an apostate of islam, does that person still consider themselves to be a muslim? Or does the 'label' also go and the person is then free to be all they wish to be or nothing at all?

Do apostates of islam also scrape off the label of being a muslim?

Thanks.
I have grown up around Muslims. Muslims will always impress upon you that they are Muslims. It does not matter what they do or who they talk to, they'll make it very clear to you that they are Muslims first and foremost and that they are superior. Even in Canada, a Muslim will make it very clear to you that he is a Muslim. Muslims wear their religion on their sleeves.

When Muslims gather in large numbers, they become more aggressive, not necessary physically but in their mannerism. That's why they will demand special privileges and rights which they know are not given even to the majority, good example is demanding designated prayer spaces in school; would become very indignant if they are not given, to the point of calling you racist.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.

Shaunm1963
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:06 pm

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by Shaunm1963 »

Ram wrote: I have grown up around Muslims. Muslims will always impress upon you that they are Muslims. It does not matter what they do or who they talk to, they'll make it very clear to you that they are Muslims first and foremost and that they are superior. Even in Canada, a Muslim will make it very clear to you that he is a Muslim. Muslims wear their religion on their sleeves.

When Muslims gather in large numbers, they become more aggressive, not necessary physically but in their mannerism. That's why they will demand special privileges and rights which they know are not given even to the majority, good example is demanding designated prayer spaces in school; would become very indignant if they are not given, to the point of calling you racist.
This is the situation in UK. But just remember folks, islam IS NOT A RACE of mankind. It is a politico-religious ideology that has as it's remit world domination. My heart goes out to anyone that breaks free from islam

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but my heart sinks when, including here in the UK, people convert to it. I really can't understand these people? Something must be seriously missing in their lives.

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RichardTheLionheart
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Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by RichardTheLionheart »

Shaunm1963 wrote:
This is the situation in UK. But just remember folks, islam IS NOT A RACE of mankind. It is a politico-religious ideology that has as it's remit world domination. My heart goes out to anyone that breaks free from islam
Muslims everywhere believe in the concept of "Ummah" this means no matter what race or nationality they are they above all belong to it. This is the only "hat" that matters in Islam.

They play the race card because it's cheap and is guaranteed to get the 'useful idiots' who defend Islam (even if they know nothing about it) to stick up for them.


Shaunm1963 wrote:but my heart sinks when, including here in the UK, people convert to it. I really can't understand these people? Something must be seriously missing in their lives.
Most of them only convert to Islam because they want to marry a Muslim! :lol: The rest are just taken in by the false propaganda the cult like to promote... scientific miracles..inventions...etc etc... >(
Ex-Muslims needed to answer my questions: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4519 Serious posts only.

time to wake up
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:07 am

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by time to wake up »

Hi Shaunm1963

I know this is not the main thrust of your argument, but for what it's worth Christians are closer to Muslims in this matter than you imply. Christians would see themselves encompassing the full range of humanity but above and beyond that being a Christian firstly and foremostly. If I were to personally describe myself, that would be my first descriptor, not as a badge, or any achievement on my part, nor as a separator from anyone else, but as an acceptance of both God's grace and Christ's victory over sin and death. Jesus is our inspiration and we aspire to follow him, to be like him, changed and renewed, forgiven and restored on a daily basis, even when we fail (that happens a lot for some of us) because we believe His life and teaching is a call from God and demands a response from us. I guess the point I'm making is that Christianity is not a bolt on extra but it intrinsically defines the Christian identity of those who profess Jesus as Christ, more so than any other worldly attribute.

Regards

Kevin

yeezevee
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Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by yeezevee »

time to wake up says
....I guess the point I'm making is that Christianity is not a bolt on extra but it intrinsically defines the Christian identity of those who profess Jesus as Christ, more so than any other worldly attribute...
that is a fascinating response to Shaunm1963 post dear "time to wake up".,

As you know In Islam, Jesus "commonly transliterated as Isa" is considered one of Allah/God's important prophets, a bringer of scripture, and a worker of miracles. Jesus is normally called as Messiah", but Islam does not teach that he was divine. But It does teach that Jesus ascended bodily to heaven without experiencing the crucifixion and resurrection unlike the traditional Christian belief of the death and resurrection of Jesus. So clearly if we remove Mr. Muhammad and his criminal ayahs from Quran (which I think are more than 30%) Islam become closer to NT with the exception of "JESUS CHRIST BEING NOT SON OF GOD" but divinely ordained Messiah.

Now the question to you is .. what actually you meant by these words "Jesus as Christ"., I am trying understand the differences between Christianity and Islam after removing JUNK and MUHAMMAD THE CRIMINAL from Quran

with best wishes
yeezevee

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Trojan
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Location: Inside the kaaba

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by Trojan »

yeezevee wrote: But It does teach that Jesus ascended bodily to heaven without experiencing the crucifixion and resurrection unlike the traditional Christian belief of the death and resurrection of Jesus. So clearly if we remove Mr. Muhammad and his criminal ayahs from Quran (which I think are more than 30%) Islam become closer to NT with the exception of "JESUS CHRIST BEING NOT SON OF GOD" but divinely ordained Messiah.
yeezevee, Wow I am surprised a senior member like you would say such a ridiculous thing like the above. In what way do you think the NT is like the koran. If you had said the OT then I would somewhat understand since there are some blood curdling tales (although all within a timeframe and context) within its pages, but to compare the NT with the koran is like comparing the ideology of Hitler with Mother Teresa's life ...... would you not say?
Now the question to you is .. what actually you meant by these words "Jesus as Christ"., I am trying understand the differences between Christianity and Islam after removing JUNK and MUHAMMAD THE CRIMINAL from Quran
Oh then I am afraid you would have to dispose the whole of the koran as junk dear yeezevee, because obviously there is absolutely nothing original in it. It is a work of plaigerism from Jewish, Christian (apocrypha), zoroastrian sources and myths and fables of the 7th century. Jesus being "saved from crucifixion on the cross" does dispute with history but this heresy can be found in apocrypha.
Ask yourself what is so miraculous about a book that took 23 long years to be revealed?.... and the editing of a mere human (Uthaman) to perfect?
Why is it that Muslims are blind to the fact that Mohammed used allah as a puppet for his own selfish and lustful devices, and ironically allah complies to every whim of this sadistic, narcassistic madman.

Cheers

"Muslims are the first victims of Islam, to liberate them from this religion is the best service that one can render them..."
Ernest Renan (1823-1892)

time to wake up
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Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by time to wake up »

Hi yeezevee

My understanding of the word Christ or Messiah is of the anointed one expected by the Jewish people who would be their king, restore their nation and defeat their enemies ushering in a new golden age of peace, He would also be expected to lead all the nations to worship YHWY. It's worth pointing out that Jews believed that he would not be divine but merely a man born of human parents. In that respect if no other, Muslims and Jews are in accord.

Jesus is, and has always been a stumbling block, He said so himself, and people have been trying to get their head around Him ever since. John I think got it right when he said if he recounted all the things Jesus said and did, the whole world could not contain the books that would be written. Everyone has an opinion, whether you believe the Gospels or not, and frankly, if what they report is true then something pretty strange and wonderful happened way back in first Century Palestine. However that doesn't sit well in our empirical age, nor has it sat well for a while, theories, movements, cults, and believers have all come and gone ever since Christ walked the planet.

Many generations have troubled over this preacher from Nazareth, However Mohammad is unique I think in having the gall to sideline Christ in preference to himself as a final prophet, one who had neither the wisdom, humility or the grace of Jesus, but the depravity and cunning of a cutthroat and a bandit. As a graphic artist and occasional painter I know the work you create is often a reflection of yourself–you cannot help it, it's a mirror of your soul. I believe the reason the koran is like it is is because it is a reflection of all Mo said and did, it is a mirror of Mohammed's soul, lacking all generosity and compassion but large on fear, devision and punishment. Irrespective of source material this is what Mohammed has made of it, the material is neutral, but the koran is hateful, every bit Mohammed's image.

freeatlast2010
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Location: California

Re: After Apostasy: identification

Post by freeatlast2010 »

I would say "" follow ur heart"" -but don''t punish ur loved ones-it's not their fault.
That's what they'have been taught, just like u and me. Unfortunately, the pressures of society(depends on where u live) will not let some people think independently. Remember u can be an ex-Muslim, but u cannot be an ex human being. We are better that those hypocrites. Good luck!

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