Jumping between religions.

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yeezevee
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by yeezevee »

Zen.. dear Zen.. You write so well., By chance Are you a Journalist or student of Journalism?? My goodness. You know there used to be a wonderful web_friend named as "desert Rose" in FFI and at http://www.balouch.com/forum/index.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ., You guys have very similar writing styles. So what sorts books do you normally read dear Zen?? Or did you read any recently??

with best wishes
yeezevee
yeezevee
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by yeezevee »

Thank you so much, and no I'm afraid I'm still in high school. I just happen to be an opinionated teenager with writer's block.
..Oh my goodness., You will have bright future., There is a long way to go..please focus on your education.. indeed that Aristotle signatures you have is good for young and old all the way from 8 years to 80 years
- "Education is the best provision for the journey to old age." -Aristotle.
Fantasy books mostly, but I read the classics too(The Great Gatsby, Picture of Dorian Gray etc.) and I read philosophy and history as well.

Currently I'm reading Neverwhere by the fantastic author Neil Gaiman.
very smart guy., may be aiming for a book that will turn in to a movie or that JK Rowling ..lol..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LmfCGy_ZLg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Above he Talks about his short story book .. please continue to read & write but spend more time with school books

with best wishes
yeezevee
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kenmirzz
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by kenmirzz »

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charleslemartel
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by charleslemartel »

kenmirzz wrote:To Zen
Spoiler! :
Thanks for sharing your story of enlightenment. We both are in the same shoes. Apostasy cannot be concealed forever. I made a few mistakes by revealing my infidelity to some of my family members and they got a shock of their life. They even secretly put some Zam Zam water into my drinking bottle to clear away the 'dirt' that supposed to be causing my apostasy. It's stressing to hide the truth while living in a country that is predominantly Muslims. The people in my country are generally liberal Muslims but when it comes to Islam and Apostasy, the reaction will be similar; the risk of being disowned.

My advice is that for the moment, try to seek way for migration or working abroad. I am trying to do the same now.
Regarding your disbelief in God, that's naturally mean the conception of Abrahamic God that was inculcated during our childhood. The cruel God that prepare Hell fire for sinners and unbelievers. Reject this definition of "God" by all means necessary,but you can still search for alternative God. The "God" that you can feel within and without you. There's always a "Power", "Force" and "Reality" that surrounds us. The universe and galaxies operated under the balanced condition of certain Laws and Principles. This "God" does not care whether you believe in "It" or not.
:clap:
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
sword_of_truth
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by sword_of_truth »

I don't know whether it's Islam or if it's the Pakistani culture but I hate the fact that telling my parents I'm not Muslim would cause so much bother. I have friends who have denounced their religion to their parents, and apart from a bit of disappointment everything has been fine.
It is Islam. By that, I mean what is written in Islamic sources. It is, of course, possible for muslims to ignore that.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Islam is a disease. This is one of the reasons why it must be considered as a mental illness, rather than a religion, at least as far as the true, authentic Islam of Muhammad is concerned. If someone thinks their own child should be murdered for having a theological disagreement with them, it is no longer religion, but a rather a profound psychological disorder, and frankly, just outright insanity.
"...if you want my personal preference say I found out that my wife was cheating with me flogging would be too good a punishment."

--fudgy
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Ibn Rushd
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by Ibn Rushd »

Do not give up hope.
There is no Master but the Master, and QT-1 is his Prophet.

Asimov's robot story "Reason"
káty_gg
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by káty_gg »

Hey there everybody and hello to Artemis-Rose!

Your story brought me back so many memories. I can totaly relate to what you're going through. If you are going to tell your parents (which I think you're probably going to have to if you move out with your man) the one piece of advice I can give you is expect anything...Realy ANYTHING. This is what happened to me after I told my parents if your interested:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2974

Artemis-Rose said: now I need advice on how to tell my parents this and make it out so that they can't blame my mother or punish my sister because of my decision
I don't know your family but what I've found when I came out is that they will always blame it on someone else. In my case my family blame my husband for my apostasy. They will never just accept that you have a brain and you came up with your own conclusions. They can't think that because it goes against everything that they stand for - that this is the right religion and that anyone who thinks otherwise either doesn't understand or is a fruit-loop.
My parents still today blame my husband for my apostasy. It's actually quite funnily idiotic the more you think about it.
Staying with this family has extremely bad effects on me, mentally and in turn physically. I would happily stay, so that my parents can be happy and my sister can be happy, but I would like to live my life and make my difference in the world.
You know I thought the same way too but for me - mentally it was just tooooooooo much. It's exhausting and draining. If you spend all your time making others happy at the expence and at your own life - what does that reduce you to. I'm sure if they loved you as much as you love them they would want you to be happy. If the only way for them happy is for you to deny youself...then what does that say?

You seem like a very smart person with a bright future! I mean, not many people think this forwardly in high school, you should be very proud of yourself.
I hope I helped
:rock: whooooo
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kenmirzz
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by kenmirzz »

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R_Nelson
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by R_Nelson »

Congratulations on breaking free of Islam!
Artemis-Rose wrote:Currently I'm reading Neverwhere by the fantastic author Neil Gaiman.
yeezevee wrote:very smart guy., may be aiming for a book that will turn in to a movie or that JK Rowling ..lol..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LmfCGy_ZLg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Above he Talks about his short story book
Cool, there are Neil Gaiman fans here! The day before he did the above talk at Google, I saw him speaking HERE.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
capner
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by capner »

kenmirzz wrote:To Zen

Thanks for sharing your story of enlightenment. We both are in the same shoes. Apostasy cannot be concealed forever. I made a few mistakes by revealing my infidelity to some of my family members and they got a shock of their life. They even secretly put some Zam Zam water into my drinking bottle to clear away the 'dirt' that supposed to be causing my apostasy. It's stressing to hide the truth while living in a country that is predominantly Muslims. The people in my country are generally liberal Muslims but when it comes to Islam and Apostasy, the reaction will be similar; the risk of being disowned.

My advice is that for the moment, try to seek way for migration or working abroad. I am trying to do the same now.

Regarding your disbelief in God, that's naturally mean the conception of Abrahamic God that was inculcated during our childhood. The cruel God that prepare Hell fire for sinners and unbelievers. Reject this definition of "God" by all means necessary,but you can still search for alternative God. The "God" that you can feel within and without you. There's always a "Power", "Force" and "Reality" that surrounds us. The universe and galaxies operated under the balanced condition of certain Laws and Principles. This "God" does not care whether you believe in "It" or not.

Just my two cents.

Humanity is but one family. :)

Oh ya right! And I as a parent, don't care whether my children believe I am their parent or not......
There is some real deep thinking going on here folks..(sarc) about as deep as a teaspoon. :roflmao:
crazymonkie_
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by crazymonkie_ »

And that would make sense if god, you know, showed itself to us. That we could each talk to it like a parent. Unless we're all orphans of god and it doesn't care about us.
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kenmirzz
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by kenmirzz »

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praisehimalleluia
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by praisehimalleluia »

I know how you feel. I have been there personally.. will tell u more in detail.
praisehimalleluia
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by praisehimalleluia »

Hi Zen,

The greatest thing you have discovered is the essence of humanity itself. Religion by itself can never create a "Loving Nation" amongst many diversity of Nations on Earth. Religion has failed to bring mankind as ONE human race. Instead, we are brought up by Religious beliefs that creates a mind against other people with differences, thus we claim we are superior than the rest of the nation.

This was exactly how the Jews used to be in ancient times in believing they are the ONLY NATION LOVED by GOD and chosen by Him. Thus they failed in history to bring up mankind of righteousness. But today, Jews are most loving people and they have opened up towards other nations with open arms. The Jews evolved when times changed, and they are different today. Nothing is wrong with Israelites, its the Muslim world that wants us to hate the Jews. oh plssss....I strongly do love the Jews just as much as I love the Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and all Faith, simply because they are human beings, of the same spesies of creatures God Created on earth.

Just like you, I do not believe in the idea of having a Religion. I rather be a Human Being with a kind heart and live on righteousness. Besides, I believe in a God that is existent. I just don't like to put myself into some rules and rituals that are man-made. I hate to think that mankind assumes what God wants us to do. Well if truly God wants me to do something in rituals or prayers, please GOD, come and tell me directly. I can't listen to anyone and I am one who believe in my instincts.

I still do study other religions of the world today. Simply because I love to read and I love history.

So, do not worry about your fears. You may be seeking other faiths to see their views on humanity and a GOD that exists. If you study Buddhism or Hinduism you will notice much about spirituality and an existence in a superior SPIRIT or Creator. Their concept is just good to accept. Its more philosophical and such wisdom exists in them. But craps exists in Islam, seriously.

About informing your family on your apostasy, I would strongly advise you to consider settling with your husband first. Or perhaps just get married, then inform your apostasy. I say this simply because you have a younger sister and it won't be fair on her if ur family imposes stricter rules on her just because they assume its their fault that you chose to leave Islam. Well, they will never understand "Freedom of Choice" simply because they were taught from ancient times of the SIN of apostasy and poor them, they are threathened to the core due to the psychologically good lie Muhammad made to threathen the Muslims never to leave Islam.

Considering you in Scotland, its safe to leave Islam. But I know the family can be a huge problem while you're still their daughter and under their care or responsibility. So once you are someone else's wife, it is not their responsibility but your own choice. That will not be such a disaster, trust me. Is your lover accepting your choice in not being a Muslim? I hope he is just like you in opinion towards faith and religion.

Zen, this is just a thought that I wanted to share with you. We who leave, have to understand the consequences of the ones we love simply because they cannot perceive its "NORMAL" to choose our way of life. Religion is not the way of life. So they cannot fathomise our ideas or concept of humanity. They are brought up to understand that Religion is the core of humanity and without Islam they fail as human beings. So they will cast a lot of blame upon themselves as parents or family members. AND yes, the family will bring more headache to your mom and dad and its just not worth it, dear.

Give yourself a good credit in choosing your human right in choices to make in life about faith, humanity, social life. But give your mind a deep thought about declaring your apostasy to your family.

All the best to you in whatever you endeavour. I am always here should you need a girlfriend who has the same opinion like you.

Grace...
capner
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by capner »

Hey ms.kenmirzz

You , perhaps unwittingly, corroborated my statement with your first paragraph.
"You know Mr Capner, there are parents out there that wish solely for the well being of their siblings without much hope of recognition from the part of the siblings. This is not rare nowadays. Even if a son leave his parent for 20 years without ever visiting them, the parents in their sorrow and pain will still wish or even pray for their son. This is the pure virtues of parents especially mother when it comes to emotional issues.

So, dont beat around the bush by furnishing such weak examples of God-parent similitude to me. It wont work pal, try harder ok. I am expecting better comparisons."
Thank you, I am glad that we agree. :cool:
By the bye, that word 'similitude' is sure a big word. What year of college are you in? Sophomore? :lol:
Last edited by capner on Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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enceladus
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by enceladus »

Welcome, Artemis-Rose!

Good on you for leaving Islam! The future is indeed with people like you! The young, who will no longer be hoodwinked and have their potential smothered by the nonsense that is Islam.

You mention that a number of your friends have also left Islam - that's really good to hear as well!

As far as mentioning this to your parents goes, that's a tricky one. First, before doing so, I would suggest that you think of someone who you might be able to stay with - just in case they go "over the top" in their reaction. It's good to have an option like that, just in case.

You're **absolutely right** in saying that everyone chooses their own path, and you have **every right** to choose the path that you have taken!

I would look at it this way (a useful "food" analogy!) - your family has chosen to like "food X" as their favourite, and you have chosen "food Y". Quite honestly, it is no-one else's business but your own as to whether you're religious or not (I'm atheist myself).

Very best wishes to you! Bye for now -
- enceladus
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HollowScar
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by HollowScar »

As someone who is from Bangladesh, and is residing in Canada, I can relate to you. I am only 19, and living with my parents. Both of my parents rarely pray, and are very liberal, but nevertheless consider religion to be true. Believe it or not, I used to be the most religious, constantly praying five times a day and reading Qur'an, while my family never was close to the giving the dedication that I gave.

My parent's are much more controlled and strict, so a boyfriend/girlfriend scheme is nearly impossible. Even when I spend some extra time in school studying, they would call just to inquire. Last year, my father called my class mate to see if I was with the right person.

I have never had these problems, as I never had a girlfriend, and was too shy to focus on that area. Being of a cultural family, I tried to be the good son. I came home from school, and rarely went anywhere, as I cannot be bothered to answer additional questions imposed by my parents. Since they are cultural, I do not have the courage to date anyone, until I am on my own two feet, and have a full time job. On top of that, I don't think that would be much of a problem, as my parents might get me arranged married.

The problem with me, is that I am a dreamer. My parents wanted me to be good at studies, and even though I tried, I failed at that purpose. Now, all I want is to finish my schooling, and then make my own decisions, or even get my own place, if it got any worse.

If you have a boyfriend, then that is risky, more for cultural reasons, than religious. If I were you, I would not make any hasty moves, until I start earning. Again, think about the parent's that put so much effort into you, and do what's best for all of you. You are still young, so at this age, you are more at risk.

I am a fan of Neil Geiman too, and Neverwhere was awesome. His directed Interview with the Vampire, was excellent too.
"Do you remember what you told me once? That every passing minute is a another chance to turn it all around" - Vanilla Sky
"If I could just go back... if I could rub everything out... starting with myself" - The Talented Mr. Ripley
QuestForTruth
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by QuestForTruth »

Hi Artemis-Rose,

Welcome to the site.
My brother who does not believe in islam when constantly asked to attend majlis etc has told my father that he cannot be a part of the religion because it is against his principles and ethics. He asks my father that if i told you that you must believe in Scientology just because i believe and accompany me to their meetings would you? No you wouldn't because you don't believe it and would not want to be a part of it.
You could use a similar strategy and say that you believe in something else entirely.

Good luck!
How did I discover than I am God? I was praying and realised I was talking to myself.....
freeatlast2010
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Re: Jumping between religions.

Post by freeatlast2010 »

My humble opinion (feel free to disregard it)- don't publicize, just go about ur way quietly. After all, the hypo-critical nature of most Muslims can accept that better than "the truth"".
Also this will help save ur mom and sister.
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