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really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:31 pm
by Alvin1981
hey there i wana keep my name as person X

recently i left islam in aug 2011 but i dont tell my parents and i quietly do my own things while they practice islam still.
Mind you they dont really ask me why i dont pray anymore or so forth but i try to respect thier beleive and leave it to that.

The reason why i am posting is that since i left islam which deals with the beleive in heaven/hell i been thinking the following questions every night before i sleep:

-Why am i on this planet
-what is my purpose of life
-what happens to me when i die
-why is there so much evil in the world and ppl let it go (murder , rape, robbery, etc)
-when i die do i go through any justice

these are things that have been really bothering me and i am really starting to get upset about it
has anyone gone through this and can offer me some advice of what to do. I am not athiest but i consider myself agnostic
i am not too sure if there is a god or hgher power.
One thing for sure is that if this is my only shot at life i am really going to miss all my loved ones who i have met and i wouldnt know what to do.

pls offer me some comfort or advice cause i am really starting to get to a level where i cant even function properly cause these questions really bother me

Person X

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:03 am
by Sten
Alvin1981 wrote:The reason why i am posting is that since i left islam which deals with the beleive in heaven/hell i been thinking the following questions every night before i sleep:

That's good dude, that means you are thinking. Never stop asking yourself these questions. The more you think about it, the more spiritually intelligent you will be. Most people never ask themselves these things, they are happy to let religion answer the questions for them. Be proud that you are one of the few who are not bound by dogma. I can tell you what I think the answers to your questions are, but the only person who can answer them satisfactorily is yourself.

Alvin1981 wrote:-Why am i on this planet

To change the world as much as you are capable of.

Alvin1981 wrote:-what is my purpose of life

To follow your passions and use whatever talents you have. By improving the lives of those around you, your purpose is fulfilled.

Alvin1981 wrote:-what happens to me when i die

You will find out when you die. Your body will break down and become the soil around it, and the molecules that make up your body will be passed on to the plants that grow in the soil, and then passed to the animals that eat the plants. We are all part of the earth, and when we die we return to it. Our consciousness ends upon death, but does that really matter? You weren't conscious before you were born, why should death be worse than this?

Alvin1981 wrote:-why is there so much evil in the world and ppl let it go (murder , rape, robbery, etc)

Because the law of nature is opportunism. The strong take what they want from the weak, and the only way the weak can become strong is to group together. Life isn't fair, that's one of the simple truths of the universe. Greedy and shallow people live in luxury while good hardworking people struggle to survive - the only way we can change this isn't by looking to a god to help us, but by grouping together and changing our societies from the inside through persistence and reason. Human civilization is more advanced now than in any point in history. If we don't end up destroying the world, our future as a civilization looks pretty good.

Alvin1981 wrote:-when i die do i go through any justice

Death is the great equalizer. When you're dead concepts like justice become meaningless. Good or evil, when we die we are all the same rotting organic matter that eventually becomes dirt. I think you are still looking at life as something that comes before the afterlife, when really, death ends us all.

Alvin1981 wrote:these are things that have been really bothering me and i am really starting to get upset about it
has anyone gone through this and can offer me some advice of what to do. I am not athiest but i consider myself agnostic
i am not too sure if there is a god or hgher power.
One thing for sure is that if this is my only shot at life i am really going to miss all my loved ones who i have met and i wouldnt know what to do.

pls offer me some comfort or advice cause i am really starting to get to a level where i cant even function properly cause these questions really bother me

Person X


The questions are bothering you because you have been taught that there is an easy answer to everything. You have to accept that there are things that have no easy answer, and while you may settle on an explanation, you will never be 100% sure that you are right. That's ok and normal, better to ask yourself these things and struggle with the answer than to automatically accept someone else's answer and not think about it at all. I have more questions that I ask myself, maybe you could provide insight.

- What makes a good person? How do you know if you are a good person? If you're not doing all you could be doing to help others, are you still a good person?

- Is it ok to live comfortably while other people cannot survive? Is it wrong for me to enjoy luxuries such as TV and computer when there are children in the world who starve to death?

- Do animals have rights? Is it wrong to eat the meat of an animal that was grown in an unnatural way specifically to become meat, and who suffered throughout it's life because of this?

- When is it ok to use violence? Obviously sometimes it cannot be avoided, but what is the point when it becomes ok to deliberately hurt someone else?

- What is consciousness? How do I know that I am really in control of myself, when I could be just a machine made of meat that thinks it is conscious?

- Why are we afraid of death? Is it just because our meat bodies have an inbuilt survival mechanism, or is there something about death that is terrible?

- How do I define "Me"? What makes me me, and you you?

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:23 am
by enceladus
Hi Alvin - welcome!
Whew..... a few big questions there, but all good ones.

I'll focus on this one - "what is my purpose in life?". I fully agree with Sten's answer when he says "To follow your passions and use whatever talents you have. By improving the lives of those around you, your purpose is fulfilled."

My advice would be - enjoy yourself, and follow your interests and passions.
If you simply do this, everything else will take care of itself.

Try not to think so much about the big questions, and just "go with the flow."
Relax and enjoy your new-found freedom - you deserve it! :)

A sense of humour is a really good thing to have too. Being able to laugh at things is really good - it helps you to relax, and that's important.

I don't know how accurate this is, but from here, it sort of looks as if you've been cramped up in the tiny cage of Islam for ages, and now that you've found your way out, you're finding that the freedom takes a bit of getting used to. It probably feels almost dizzying to you.
A bit like being in a dark house for a long time, and then going outside to a very sunny day.

Such feelings are very common for those leaving Islam, and they do eventually pass.
You've been experiencing what countless others have also experienced when they left Islam.
Here are some testimonies of other former Muslims - they may help.
I'm sure you will see a few of these and think "hey - that is EXACTLY how I feel!" -
http://www.islam-watch.org/LeavingIslam/index.html

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/testimonials.htm

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/People_Wh ... estimonies
( This one is very good - a **long** list of testimonies from former Muslims. )

Very best wishes from me! Pop in here again soon, and let us know how things are going.
Bye for now -
- enceladus

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:34 pm
by Lava Lamp
Good job leaving Islam! That must’ve taken a lot of courage.

Alvin1981 wrote:-Why am i on this planet

God created us to build for the resurrected world.
-what is my purpose of life

To find stuff to improve. Since all good gets resurrected, anything good you do improves the resurrected world forever.
-what happens to me when i die

Nothing much. Your body decays while your mind is basically asleep. Then God resurrects you, putting the two back together again.
-why is there so much evil in the world and ppl let it go (murder , rape, robbery, etc)

There’s so much evil because some people hold narcissistic or hedonistic ideas (an example of which I’d say is Islam – since your objective is to get a bunch of sex slaves). A lot of people are too cowardly or lazy to fight it, so they let it go. (Luckily, you’re not one of them! Someone that’s done what you have must be thoughtful and courageous)
-when i die do i go through any justice

You do when you get resurrected. If you’re loyal to God, then your resurrected self gets improved proportional to how much good you’ve made. If you’re not, then you get demoted proportionally to the bad you did.
has anyone gone through this and can offer me some advice of what to do.

I have. You’ve gotta just take what you can know for certain (like, “I exist” to begin with) and work your way from there!
i am not too sure if there is a god or hgher power.

When I went through all this, I eventually realized that God had to exist, since “God” is defined as “the best possible being”; and because the only way to be able to make reality better is to exist, its better to exist than to not exist. So, it must also be better to have necessary existence (that is, if it can exist, then it does) than to not have necessary existence. So since God is the best possible being, and its better to have necessary existence than to not have it, God would have necessary existence. So if its even possible for him to exist, then he would…and since it is (since there’s nothing contradictory about the best possible being existing), he must.
… if this is my only shot at life i am really going to miss all my loved ones who i have met and i wouldnt know what to do.

Nah, its not. I mean, we’ve all gotta take a brief break from living for a while – but everyone will get resurrected.
pls offer me some comfort or advice cause i am really starting to get to a level where i cant even function properly cause these questions really bother me

Yeah, I was there for like 2 years :/ let’s hope it goes faster for you!

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:42 pm
by time to wake up
Hi PersonX

As a Christian I also used to believe in a God of Judgement, but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences. That basically means you no longer have to fear eternal torture in the fires of hell

I believe that in Jesus, God acted on human history, not to condemn us to hell but to free us from our worries and show us how to live life to the full in this life. Read the Christian Gospels and make your own mind up (that's different to what you've been told to think about them) Look how Jesus reacted to those around him with healing and mercy and follow what he tells you to do

This is summed up in two laws: Love God, and love other people. You don't have to be Christian to do this

It will take you a lifetime trying to work that out in practice. Many others here will say focus on your self and do what you want—your desires, but Jesus showed us we are to care for each other, and in doing so he promises our life will continue even after death. We don't define ourselves in isolation, as individuals, but only in relation to others. Relationships matter because it's what we do for others that endures and carries a blessing, not what we do for ourselves.

Justice is difficult, but Jesus said don't repay evil for evil, if you do you are acting in place of God himself. Always leave room for a change of heart, or for God to act (if you sever a man's arm for theft, how can he then be anything other than a thief, a 1 handed man can do very little indeed) I know Western Justice seems soft sometimes but brutal punishments offer no chance that you can turn a criminal from a path of his own destruction only forgiveness can do that.

I would recommend the book "Love Wins" by Rob Bell, I'm currently reading this myself and I think it answers many of your questions, he also has some videos on U-TUBE.

God bless

Kevin

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:19 pm
by uzairfarooqi
Hello Person X,

Firsly I applaud you for questioning religion as I know that it takes guts to do that especially if you've been born into a typical muslim family. I think I can relate very well to how you're feeling. By the age of 10 I was sure islam as a religion didn't make sense but I still believed in a god or a 'something'. "Why are we here?" Especially bothered me so much that eventually I ended up with depression for about 7-8 years. During this time I developed an interest in watching documentaries about the universe, evolution, how our brain works etc, the kind of topics that touch on those big questions. Eventually one day while I was watching a documentary about the brain something clicked and I realized that there can't be a god. But there were a few things I was still unclear about so I got Richard Dawkins book "The God Delusion". That book cleared up so many things for me. It is such a well written book that shows the power of science by demonstrating what we can know to a great certainty about the universe simply by thinking logically. I would highly recommend that book to you. Also, I dont know what your scientific knowledge is like when it comes to evolution or the cosmos, if its a bit weak I would recommend learning more about that as I believe knowledge was the key thing for me to escape my religion and finally answer the "Why are we here?" with a degree of satisfaction. Feel free to ask if you want recommendations in that area :)

I'll try to answer your questions but a couple of the questions might yield slightly different answers for you that you find more satisfactory
Why am I on this planet?
The answer to this could be very long depending on how you approach it. But i'll attempt a nutshell version. You're here because you are a survivor. The stuff that makes you (and indeed our planet) was originally forged in the heart of a star! That star exploded, spewed the material out, and eventually it ended up in the disc of dust that would eventually give birth to our solar system. Sun was born, planets took shape. Our early earth was hit by a mars sized planet which nearly destroyed our planet and any hope of you and me ever existing. We got our moon from this impact, this would help stabilize the earth's tilt which would be crucial for life on earth. Around 3.8 billion years ago life started on this planet. The replicators (RNA/DNA) that carried the instruction manual for life are not perfect though. They make mistakes from time to time when they make a copy. This has an interesting result. If they make a mistake that results in making the organism better at being able to reproduce, suddenely you have more of those new types of organisms and that 'mistake' is carried forward as the norm. This causes life to change over time, aka Evolution. For the last 3.8 billion years life has been undergoing this process, coming up with new solutions to the ever changing environment of our planet. Around 2 million years ago a few groups of primates that had originally evolved to live in forests found themselves in a changing landscape. Among them were homo sapiens, our ancestors. Their biggest survival tool was not an armor plating, poisonous fangs or razor sharp claws, it was their brains. We evolved a complex brain that was able to understand its world better. For thousands of years this did not distinguish us that much from the rest of the animal world but around 10,000 years ago we discovered writing and our understanding of the world started to accumulate. Progress skyrocketed. Our tools became more and more complex, we started living in bigger groups with the advent of farming, we devolped the scientific method by refining how we evaluate evidence and learnt to reason. This eventually gave us the modern world and this is why you are here to ponder that question in the first place.

What is my purpose of life?
This is completely upto you to define. I dont believe in an all powerful being so there is no ultimate purpose of life that the grand creator determines for everyone. For me the purpose of life is to learn as much as I can about how our universe works. We managed to evolve an extremely complex and unique brain any life has ever had (as far as we know ofcourse) so It would be a shame if we do not use it to its full capacity. I find something very beautiful about the fact that we're star matter which has now been able to learn what stars are and how they work.

What happens to me when i die?
We find this hard to imagine because ofcourse the whole time we've been able to think about anything, we've been alive. We can't imagine what it would be like to not be alive. However there is absolutely no reason to believe in an afterlife from a scientific point of view. If you find this troubling and are worried if this would be in some way painful try thinking of it this way. You didn't feel any pain or suffering before you were born did you? (i mean before you were even conceived :D) So dont worry about the afterlife and just make the most of what you've got now. Live life the way you want to live it and live it to the fullest.

Why is there so much evil in the world and ppl let it go (murder , rape, robbery, etc)
When you learn that there is no god it takes the mystery out of this question. There's good people and there's bad people. Bad people do bad things. There is no god to stop them. Only other people can do that. Ofcourse there's more of this in certain parts of the world than others. The reasons for that can be numerous but it certainly isn't because god has foresaken them or the devil's influencing them.

When I die do I go through any justice?
That's another religious idea. You can imagine how tempting it would be to believe that your god would hold your oppressors accountable after death to give you a sense of peace in the turbulent world of our ancestors. However with the knowledge we have now there is no reason to believe there would be a heaven and hell after we die.

This was actually one of the first things that made me doubt islam. I did not get the point of hell. I used to think that after I die I would just tell god to forgive all the people for the wrongs they did to me because life's over now and we'll live eternally in our afterlife so what's the point of punishing anyone? Punishment's there to teach someone a lesson. An eternal punishment doesn't make sense. Lets say if it wasn't eternal, if it was something like "you spend 10 years in hell to teach you a lesson and then you can enter heaven" Is that really necassary? If you saw god and angels and they showed you heaven and hell and told you "If you do anything wrong you're burning in hell" Would you ever do anything wrong? Knowing that the all knowing god is watching you? Would they even need a hell in that case? Its just things like that that very quickly make the heaven/hell idea look pretty silly.

I do hope this helps. If there's anything else you want to ask or talk about do feel free.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:37 am
by enceladus
Welcome, uzairfarooqi! Good on you for leaving Islam!
Looking forward to seeing more of your posts here.
- enceladus

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:20 pm
by ringmaster
Alvin1981 wrote:.....................

-Why am i on this planet
-what is my purpose of life.............




I have 3 criteria


(1) To acquire knowledge that is both useful and knowledge for its own sake

(2) To create new and sustainable wealth

(3) To create and/or nurture new life.

If we can do those things without causing harm to others, we have lived a good life.

If there is a judgment later, I will let myself be judged on how well I did those things.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:58 pm
by capner
time to wake up wrote:Hi PersonX

As a Christian I also used to believe in a God of Judgement, but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences. That basically means you no longer have to fear eternal torture in the fires of hell

I believe that in Jesus, God acted on human history, not to condemn us to hell but to free us from our worries and show us how to live life to the full in this life. Read the Christian Gospels and make your own mind up (that's different to what you've been told to think about them) Look how Jesus reacted to those around him with healing and mercy and follow what he tells you to do

This is summed up in two laws: Love God, and love other people. You don't have to be Christian to do this

It will take you a lifetime trying to work that out in practice. Many others here will say focus on your self and do what you want—your desires, but Jesus showed us we are to care for each other, and in doing so he promises our life will continue even after death. We don't define ourselves in isolation, as individuals, but only in relation to others. Relationships matter because it's what we do for others that endures and carries a blessing, not what we do for ourselves.

Justice is difficult, but Jesus said don't repay evil for evil, if you do you are acting in place of God himself. Always leave room for a change of heart, or for God to act (if you sever a man's arm for theft, how can he then be anything other than a thief, a 1 handed man can do very little indeed) I know Western Justice seems soft sometimes but brutal punishments offer no chance that you can turn a criminal from a path of his own destruction only forgiveness can do that.

I would recommend the book "Love Wins" by Rob Bell, I'm currently reading this myself and I think it answers many of your questions, he also has some videos on U-TUBE.

God bless

Kevin

Well Kevin. Your "Chrisianity " is weak and flawed. ie: "but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences"....You might want to check out how many times Jesus, The Christ, talked about hell. I know of a half dozen places but I am not going to go through quoting them because I type too slow. If you are going to be a follower of Christ, you had better start studying Him. :)

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:26 am
by capner
What? Scared?!? :???:

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:36 pm
by Ozes
capner wrote:What? Scared?!? :???:


Understanding the scripture is irrelevant if you don't understand its meaning. Even if you could name every verse in the bible by memory, you don't act like it too someone who simply aspires to be a good person, or a good Christian in his own understanding. This isn't Islam.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:47 pm
by Ozes
The reason why i am posting is that since i left islam which deals with the beleive in heaven/hell i been thinking the following questions every night before i sleep:


Why am i on this planet
One day you will have tremense knowledge on "the why , you most likely won't answer the question, but this is what you will be content with if you understand what you carry with you. I feel i already have answered this question for myself personally, even though i'm too young (20+)and i might simply be easily satisfied.
At least for me, life is so complex it seems to me, learning is something intended for us. Don't dismiss anything but don't be affraid to judge it neither.

What is my purpose of life
Becoming You, enjoying life and make it more enjoyable for others. The distance between a man fully developed,turning bald or turning grey and a young infant is nothing compared to a man who wanders through life blindly and a man who understands the arts of life, love, honor, war and so on.


What happens to me when i die
Well, i have literally no doubt there is an afterlife. Not because of hope or a gutfeeling, even though the later is not appreciated in the modern world. I'm assured through clear signs, and for some reason i have been blessed with the stories of many other friends and peers undergoing similar experiences, even from "make fun of those whacky Christians" atheists. If you want to hold on to agnostic or even atheist beliefs, which is completely fine by me, as long as you don't believe it makes you better then spiritual people nor does it exempt you from growing your charachter, then i can only advise to build a family and build a legacy of your own. Your death will be protected by your legacy and that's all the comfort you may have. I myself would be comfortable within this. If you wonder how, well, your a former Muslim and a former Muslim always has a chance to leave behind a legacy unique in over a thousand years. If you enjoy being social, philosophy or psychology, you might construct the keys needed to dismantle Islam or lessen the burden on its women and apostates. As a man you always have the chance to make your life an example to others, which is an option as well.


Why is there so much evil in the world and ppl let it go (murder , rape, robbery, etc)
Would life really make sense without these things?
Would we appreciate the birth of a child if it didn't involve pain?

Lay a man on the most comfortable bed, simply feed him the best food, tell him how much you adore and envy him and in years he will become sick. There are many sweet foods which give you cancer if it becomes all you eat everyday, its no different from comfort being all you know, ones mind will have a spiritual cancer.
To say it quite technically, horrible events set the parameters of life needed to understand life in full depth. Don't be bothered too much with world events, unless you are determined to tackle them, simply slowly but surely understand events in your own life, then move on to events further away from you. Makes more sense too me then for example a 16 year old boy being overwhelmed with the millions of horrible things he views on the news, thousands of miles away from him.

I don't want to bother you with Christianity, nor my personal spiritual beliefs right now, so i'll leave it at that.


When i die do i go through any justice

In my belief you do. I think its more of a "revolving door" process, a more natural process then an unreasonable harsh and sudden event.


these are things that have been really bothering me and i am really starting to get upset about it
In the end, its up to you to figure it out. Respect the intensitity, passion or seriousness with which you want to answer this questions. But give yourself a break and have a good time in the meanwhile. If you totally let it go though, it will simply come back at you later in life.

has anyone gone through this and can offer me some advice of what to do. I am not athiest but i consider myself agnostic
Most worthwhile people go through this.


One thing for sure is that if this is my only shot at life i am really going to miss all my loved ones who i have met and i wouldnt know what to do.
Don't worry so much and spend this time and effort to appreciate.


Hope you do well X
In all sincerity, and i tried, i cannot believe Islam comes from a good source, spiritual or non spiritual. You daring to question it, is already a great accomplishment and something admirable.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:02 pm
by time to wake up
Well Kevin. Your "Chrisianity " is weak and flawed. ie: "but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences"....You might want to check out how many times Jesus, The Christ, talked about hell. I know of a half dozen places but I am not going to go through quoting them because I type too slow. If you are going to be a follower of Christ, you had better start studying Him. :)[/quote]


Hi Capner

I don't think so.

Hell is the English translation of the Greek Gehenna as used by Jesus in the New Testament. It was the rubbish dump for Jerusalem, was continually aflame or smouldering and wild animals would fight over remains, it probably smelt quite bad too.

Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a concept of everlasting torture, in fact God's Judgement is often portrayed a short and swift.

Jesus mentions Gehenna/Hell 12 times in the New Testament, and no where does he mention eternal torture.

He does say there will be a judgement and he himself has been entrusted with that, that's very reassuring, knowing how compassionate Jesus showed himself to be in the Gospels.

As Jesus often said, ours is the possibility to choose, to constantly choose evil over good may lead to a very dark place some would call Hell,if not in this life, then the next.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:02 pm
by time to wake up
Well Kevin. Your "Chrisianity " is weak and flawed. ie: "but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences"....You might want to check out how many times Jesus, The Christ, talked about hell. I know of a half dozen places but I am not going to go through quoting them because I type too slow. If you are going to be a follower of Christ, you had better start studying Him. :)[/quote]


Hi Capner

I don't think so.

Hell is the English translation of the Greek Gehenna as used by Jesus in the New Testament. It was the rubbish dump for Jerusalem, was continually aflame or smouldering and wild animals would fight over remains, it probably smelt quite bad too.

Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a concept of everlasting torture, in fact God's Judgement is often portrayed a short and swift.

Jesus mentions Gehenna/Hell 12 times in the New Testament, and no where does he mention eternal torture.

He does say there will be a judgement and he himself has been entrusted with that, that's very reassuring, knowing how compassionate Jesus showed himself to be in the Gospels.

As Jesus often said, ours is the possibility to choose, to constantly choose evil over good may lead to a very dark place some would call Hell,if not in this life, then the next.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:03 pm
by time to wake up
Well Kevin. Your "Chrisianity " is weak and flawed. ie: "but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences"....You might want to check out how many times Jesus, The Christ, talked about hell. I know of a half dozen places but I am not going to go through quoting them because I type too slow. If you are going to be a follower of Christ, you had better start studying Him. :)[/quote]


Hi Capner

I don't think so.

Hell is the English translation of the Greek Gehenna as used by Jesus in the New Testament. It was the rubbish dump for Jerusalem, was continually aflame or smouldering and wild animals would fight over remains, it probably smelt quite bad too.

Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a concept of everlasting torture, in fact God's Judgement is often portrayed a short and swift.

Jesus mentions Gehenna/Hell 12 times in the New Testament, and no where does he mention eternal torture.

He does say there will be a judgement and he himself has been entrusted with that, that's very reassuring, knowing how compassionate Jesus showed himself to be in the Gospels.

As Jesus often said, ours is the possibility to choose, to constantly choose evil over good may lead to a very dark place some would call Hell,if not in this life, then the next.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:06 pm
by time to wake up
Well Kevin. Your "Chrisianity " is weak and flawed. ie: "but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences"....You might want to check out how many times Jesus, The Christ, talked about hell. I know of a half dozen places but I am not going to go through quoting them because I type too slow. If you are going to be a follower of Christ, you had better start studying Him. :)[/quote]


Well Kevin. Your "Chrisianity " is weak and flawed. ie: "but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences"....You might want to check out how many times Jesus, The Christ, talked about hell. I know of a half dozen places but I am not going to go through quoting them because I type too slow. If you are going to be a follower of Christ, you had better start studying Him. :)[/quote]


Hi Capner

I don't think so.

Hell is the English translation of the Greek Gehenna as used by Jesus in the New Testament. It was the rubbish dump for Jerusalem, was continually aflame or smouldering and wild animals would fight over remains, it probably smelt quite bad too.

Nowhere in the Old Testament is there a concept of everlasting torture, in fact God's Judgement is often portrayed a short and swift.

Jesus mentions Gehenna/Hell 12 times in the New Testament, and no where does he mention eternal torture.

He does say there will be a judgement and he himself has been entrusted with that, that's very reassuring, knowing how compassionate Jesus showed himself to be in the Gospels.

As Jesus often said, ours is the possibility to choose, to constantly choose evil over good may lead to a very dark place some would call Hell,if not in this life, then the next.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:28 am
by capner
time to wake up wrote:Hi PersonX

As a Christian I also used to believe in a God of Judgement, but my theology has changed recently to believe that what we have translated as 'hell' comes more from Danté and other extra scriptural influences. That basically means you no longer have to fear eternal torture in the fires of hell

I believe that in Jesus, God acted on human history, not to condemn us to hell but to free us from our worries and show us how to live life to the full in this life. Read the Christian Gospels and make your own mind up (that's different to what you've been told to think about them) Look how Jesus reacted to those around him with healing and mercy and follow what he tells you to do

This is summed up in two laws: Love God, and love other people. You don't have to be Christian to do this

It will take you a lifetime trying to work that out in practice. Many others here will say focus on your self and do what you want—your desires, but Jesus showed us we are to care for each other, and in doing so he promises our life will continue even after death. We don't define ourselves in isolation, as individuals, but only in relation to others. Relationships matter because it's what we do for others that endures and carries a blessing, not what we do for ourselves.

Justice is difficult, but Jesus said don't repay evil for evil, if you do you are acting in place of God himself. Always leave room for a change of heart, or for God to act (if you sever a man's arm for theft, how can he then be anything other than a thief, a 1 handed man can do very little indeed) I know Western Justice seems soft sometimes but brutal punishments offer no chance that you can turn a criminal from a path of his own destruction only forgiveness can do that.

I would recommend the book "Love Wins" by Rob Bell, I'm currently reading this myself and I think it answers many of your questions, he also has some videos on U-TUBE.

God bless

Kevin


Hey Bozo. You might want to read the words of Jesus about hell beginning in Matthew. If you don't. Then please stop pretending to be a Christian. :ehh:

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:31 am
by RedOak
Sten wrote:
Alvin1981 wrote:The reason why i am posting is that since i left islam which deals with the beleive in heaven/hell i been thinking the following questions every night before i sleep:

That's good dude, that means you are thinking. Never stop asking yourself these questions. The more you think about it, the more spiritually intelligent you will be. Most people never ask themselves these things, they are happy to let religion answer the questions for them. Be proud that you are one of the few who are not bound by dogma. I can tell you what I think the answers to your questions are, but the only person who can answer them satisfactorily is yourself.

Alvin1981 wrote:-Why am i on this planet

To change the world as much as you are capable of.

Alvin1981 wrote:-what is my purpose of life

To follow your passions and use whatever talents you have. By improving the lives of those around you, your purpose is fulfilled.

Alvin1981 wrote:-what happens to me when i die

You will find out when you die. Your body will break down and become the soil around it, and the molecules that make up your body will be passed on to the plants that grow in the soil, and then passed to the animals that eat the plants. We are all part of the earth, and when we die we return to it. Our consciousness ends upon death, but does that really matter? You weren't conscious before you were born, why should death be worse than this?

Alvin1981 wrote:-why is there so much evil in the world and ppl let it go (murder , rape, robbery, etc)

Because the law of nature is opportunism. The strong take what they want from the weak, and the only way the weak can become strong is to group together. Life isn't fair, that's one of the simple truths of the universe. Greedy and shallow people live in luxury while good hardworking people struggle to survive - the only way we can change this isn't by looking to a god to help us, but by grouping together and changing our societies from the inside through persistence and reason. Human civilization is more advanced now than in any point in history. If we don't end up destroying the world, our future as a civilization looks pretty good.

Alvin1981 wrote:-when i die do i go through any justice

Death is the great equalizer. When you're dead concepts like justice become meaningless. Good or evil, when we die we are all the same rotting organic matter that eventually becomes dirt. I think you are still looking at life as something that comes before the afterlife, when really, death ends us all.

Alvin1981 wrote:these are things that have been really bothering me and i am really starting to get upset about it
has anyone gone through this and can offer me some advice of what to do. I am not athiest but i consider myself agnostic
i am not too sure if there is a god or hgher power.
One thing for sure is that if this is my only shot at life i am really going to miss all my loved ones who i have met and i wouldnt know what to do.

pls offer me some comfort or advice cause i am really starting to get to a level where i cant even function properly cause these questions really bother me

Person X


The questions are bothering you because you have been taught that there is an easy answer to everything. You have to accept that there are things that have no easy answer, and while you may settle on an explanation, you will never be 100% sure that you are right. That's ok and normal, better to ask yourself these things and struggle with the answer than to automatically accept someone else's answer and not think about it at all. I have more questions that I ask myself, maybe you could provide insight.

- What makes a good person? How do you know if you are a good person? If you're not doing all you could be doing to help others, are you still a good person?

- Is it ok to live comfortably while other people cannot survive? Is it wrong for me to enjoy luxuries such as TV and computer when there are children in the world who starve to death?

- Do animals have rights? Is it wrong to eat the meat of an animal that was grown in an unnatural way specifically to become meat, and who suffered throughout it's life because of this?

- When is it ok to use violence? Obviously sometimes it cannot be avoided, but what is the point when it becomes ok to deliberately hurt someone else?

- What is consciousness? How do I know that I am really in control of myself, when I could be just a machine made of meat that thinks it is conscious?

- Why are we afraid of death? Is it just because our meat bodies have an inbuilt survival mechanism, or is there something about death that is terrible?

- How do I define "Me"? What makes me me, and you you?


Sten's right, religion attempts to give you clear cut answers to the problems in your life.

The problems in life are there because without them we would not have the opportunity to do better and to make things right. Determining what is right and wrong on your own using sense and reason is much more worthy than than being given the answers.

I'm an ex muslim as of recently and I still have a fear of hell... we've been so far indoctrinated that it's hard to lose it! But at times like this I turn to the compassionate God I still believe in and put my trust in him that ill be fine... and that is more courageous than being guaranteed salvation.

Re: really getting upset and need comfort

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:39 am
by enceladus
Welcome, RedOak! Good on you for leaving Islam!
I look forward to seeing more of your contributions here.

If you have friends or family who you think may want to leave Islam (or who have doubts about it), maybe you can get them to come along here too.

Bye for now -
- enceladus