One Question

[HomerJay]

HomerJay, you made some good points, but please think rationally here.
Democracy is not the proper way to settle a logical issue.
Truth is not to be decided by the numbers.
I know MANY people dislike Islam. So what?
It is SOME scientists that I am referring to.
Dont you think that if a top scientist says Islam is rational,
then he is in a position to make that judgement.
The Scientist may not be an historian, but he is a logical person.

Fair enough on the democracy point. I only raised it because so many Muslims argue the NUMBERS of people (and scientists) that support Islam.

But again, it is YOU who is not being rational. Yes, I agree (as I already agreed), credit should be given when a brilliant person admires Islam. But don't you see that you're cherry-picking? You are ignoring all the MANY other revered persons who do NOT support Islam. What kind of thinking is that? It's head-in-the-sand logic. It's like supporting the use of Thalidomide for pregnant women because ONE doctor praises it while ignoring the 10 that say it is horribly dangerous. And so you say, "but this person is a doctor, a scientist. A logical person. He is in a position to make that judgment!"

I'll respect any revered and brilliant person you mention who supports Islam, but then you have to also respect the brilliant people who do and did not support it like ... well you know I could fill pages with brilliant men and women throughout history and today who rejected/reject that ideology. Answer me this, Why would Einstein, Galileo, Da Vinci, Kepler, Copernicus, Darwin, Shakespeare, Hawking, Newton, and Dawkins, to name a VERY few, reject Islam, as these are all brilliant men? They all were literate people, they all had access to the literature, why didn't they see the light?

[joseph]

Valid argument. You have spoken very reasonably.

I am totally with you.

Thanks Homer.

It is up to the patient to weigh up the matter and then decide whether to take the blue pill or the red pill, or, none at all.

[sidsid]

.

This topic is only for those who have left Islam and joined the godless squad:

I want to see if you actually found a good enough cause to desert Prophet Mohamed.

As a convert from Atheism to Islam, I am very interested in your journey the other way.

Obviously, it would be educational to for an ex-atheist to find out why people are leaving light of Koran and going to the dark side.

I just want to know one thing:

What exactly made you leave the religion of truth. Why did you abandoned the true God.

Why?

I dont want to know hundred reasons, or ten reasons. Tell me just one reason.

Give me your REAL reason for leaving Islam.

One reason.

-----

I don't know arabic, never finished the Qur'an or finish reading it in english. I never got into religion, although I did go through breif phases (which resulted in actually wearing the hijab, and I regret that now :/). But really, I never practiced religion. Even though I stopped praying entirely and didn't even bother with the pretense of it in front of my parents, I was aware of God when I needed to be.

I don't honestly feel guilty or upset about it and I don't really care. I'm just like that. I don't think I was ever truly a muslim so it's difficult how to describe myself today. I just won't bother because it doesn't concern me. I have time.

[joseph]

Thanks for taking time to not answer the question.

[Bob]

Hello Joseph;

I'm not an ex-Muslim so perhaps you don't think I should be on this thread. Whatever, here to start with are a few 'internal' reasons for leaving Islam and which ex-Muslims often mention.

1. The koran is full of irrational myths and incredible fantasies: (hoopoes and ants using human language to express rational thought, the sun setting in a muddy pond, stars used as missiles to chase the jinns, the jinns themselves, baby Isa breathing life into clay birds - the list is far far longer but you get the gist. Anyway if these are examples of the Noor of Allah then I'm glad I live in darkness).

2. Allah is immoral. Torture is wrong, morally wrong. It is diabolical when the 'crime' is simply disbelief or 'shirk'. A being who threatens eternal torture in such cases is a pathological sadist who should be locked away in a psychiatric prison.

3. Mohammed's narcissistic immorality would disgust any sane person. Among many other incidents, he had poets murdered simply because they disclaimed verses against him and raped Safiya the day after he had her father and husband tortured and put to death.

The question that puzzles me is : how can any sane person brought up a non-Muslim in a non-Muslim country convert to Islam?

[joseph]

Bob,

Most of your answer was irrelevant to this thread.

We can talk about those others things elsewhere, if you so wish.



However,

The question that puzzles me is :

how can any sane person brought up a non-Muslim in a non-Muslim country convert to Islam?

It puzzels me too.

Why is Islam still so attractive to Americans and Europeans, who are supposed to be educated rational people.

Why are they converting to Islam.

Why on Earth would Westerners want to become muslims, especially after 9/11 attacks which U.S. blamed on muslims.

That is just incredible, yet true.

It looks like a modern miracle happening right before our eyes. I just cant understand it.

If you watch the links I gave from YouTube videos of news reports from CNN, FOX and others networks, it is indeed puzzeling as to why would so many normal intelligent men and women convert to this religion of Islam.

As this is an off topic subject here, you can give your reply in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3276

[HomerJay]

It puzzels me too.

Doesn't puzzle me. Western women who know nothing of Islam except what their fiances tell them from the "no compulsion in religion" and "burka is for honoring women" platitude pamphlet, add in the Cassius Clays and Mike Tysons converting in prison and the sky-high birthrate, and you have ISLAM GROWING IN THE WEST.

I would like to see some (reliable) figures comparing conversion vs apostacy, though. Be good to know if there is any reason to make long-term plans to abandon N. America. Mars looks good. Though I suppose once America looks like Pakistan there will be rockets crashing into buildings on Mars:)

Ha ha. Just kidding. Islam is a peaceful religion tainted by a few bad apples. All the terrorism, strife, an warfare in the world is caused by George Bush, Fox News, oil/big business, and greedy Zionists who make Passover pastry out of muslim children's blood (see Hell's Kitchen recipes). But everyone knows that.

[joseph]

Western women who know nothing of Islam except what their fiances tell them from the "no compulsion in religion" and "burka is for honoring women" platitude pamphlet...

Are you saying that most female converts to Islam in the West are gullible,
and that they become muslim only when they fall in love with a muslim man!

Come on, please be reasonable.

If thats true, then all women converts in America and Europe would be are married to a muslim husband.

Which is not the case.

Im sorry Homer.

I dont like having a go at you. You are a nice person. But facts are facts.

I have given evidence in the God Spreading Islam topic quoted above.

It proves that marriage is not the only reason that attracts westerners into become muslims.

[HomerJay]

Are you saying that most female converts to Islam in the West are gullible,
and that they become muslim only when they fall in love with a muslim man!
Come on, please be reasonable.
If thats true, then all women converts in America and Europe would be are married to a muslim husband.

Not a very logical debater, are you Joseph?
My premise was MOST female converts are gullible, you then countered with the conclusion that ALL these women converts would have married into it. I said most, there are always miniscule exceptions that make the youtube videos and billboards. So yes, I would predict that the VAST majority of women that enter Islam do so at the behest of a Muslim man with a ring saying that "Islam means peace", and "women are to be honored and protected". You can bet they don't get down on one knee and say "Islam means Submission", and that "the majority of the dwellers in Hellfire are women", because they are "deficient in intelligence" and were "disobedient to their husbands". I'm sure these verses come out AFTER the ceremony.

I have given evidence in the God Spreading Islam topic quoted above.
It proves that marriage is not the only reason that attracts westerners into become muslims.

No, you gave evidence of PEOPLE spreading Islam, not Allah. (please use the term Allah for God. I don't refer to your God as Christ or Yahweh. Regardless of Abrahamic and monotheistic semantics, Allah is definately NOT my God).

Of course an engagement ring is not the only incentive Islam presents. For many disaffected young men, particularly those in impoverished or incarcerated circumstances, Islam offers a rallying point, a brotherhood, from which one can strike out (often with a new badge of moral impunity) against one's oppressors: the UNBELIEVERS. Performing nearly ANY action is considered ethical if one is acting "against those who oppose the spread of Islam". Pretty much carte blanche.

But that's not the only attraction Islam holds for certain people. Islam, as you of course know, offers the answers to ALL day-to-day questions. How to eat, sleep, bathe, drink, deal with family, friends, neighbors, enemies. When to eat or fast, when to pray or make war. This sort of almost military structure and life discipline can be very attractive to many people who feel lost. Of course, they could also just join the army. Wait a minute, that's really what Mohammed's Islam WAS.

[Sten]

Are you saying that most female converts to Islam in the West are gullible

I would say all converts to Islam are gullible no matter where they come from or what gender they are.

[piscohot]

.

Tell me just one reason.
-----

I cannot in good conscience believe in a religion made up by someone who slept with a 9 year old, married his daughterinlaw, took advantage of widows, made exceptions to rules for himself as well as committed murders.

[Gabriel]

Here's another reason why some women in the West convert to Islam:

Police protect girls forced to convert to Islam

[Mr Preet]

Why is Islam so still so attractive to Americans and Europeans, who are supposed to be educated rational people.

Why are they converting to Islam.

Joseph, just how many, what percentage of Americans and Europeans are attracted to Islam? Do you know there are people who worship Elvis Presley? Do you know that there are many fans/worshippers or Hitler, Pol Pot, Marcos etc ? These were not Mother Teresas but killers, plunderers and murderers. You start a cult and there will be followers! We have seen how David Koresh, Rev. Jones attract thousands. People converting to Islam is no big deal!

It is a MORTAL SIN to say Islam is from the God whom various beliefs believe to have created the world. If Allah DID created the world it must be his own sinful and evil world!

[joseph]

Why is Islam still so attractive to Americans and Europeans, who are supposed to be educated rational people.

Why are they converting to Islam.

Do you know there are people who worship Elvis Presley?
Do you know that there are many fans/worshippers or Hitler, Pol Pot, Marcos etc ?
These were not Mother Teresas but killers, plunderers and murderers.
You start a cult and there will be followers!
We have seen how David Koresh, Rev. Jones attract thousands.

People converting to Islam is no big deal!

This is one of the most absurd reply I got from an Atheist.

Atheists tend to say the most silliest things.

[Trojan]

It puzzels me too.

Why is Islam still so attractive to Americans and Europeans, who are supposed to be educated rational people.

Why are they converting to Islam.
Why on Earth would Westerners want to become muslims, especially after 9/11 attacks which U.S. blamed on muslims.
That is just incredible, yet true.
It looks like a modern miracle happening right before our eyes. I just cant understand it.
If you watch the links I gave from YouTube videos of news reports from CNN, FOX and others networks, it is indeed puzzeling as to why would so many normal intelligent men and women convert to this religion of Islam.
As this is an off topic subject here, you can give your reply in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3276

joseph,

It seems like your conversion to Islam is a logical fallacy.
Appeal to Popularity
The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:

1.Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
2.Therefore X is true.

You have given no valid reason for your conversion, other than the fact that you are amazed that many people around the globe are converting to Islam.
This is one of those darndest things that some "new" muslims say to justify their conversion blunder.

Cheers!

[iffo]

A scholar once said probability of intelligent life getting created on its own is like a torando hitting a house and in result produce a jumbo jet ...

And that's what these athesist believe that everything got created on its own, now how dumb one can be .... no disrespect

[piscohot]

A scholar once said probability of intelligent life getting created on its own is like a torando hitting a house and in result produce a jumbo jet ...

And that's what these athesist believe that everything got created on its own, now how dumb one can be .... no disrespect

this coming from someone who believed in a religion brought on by a man who was a robber, who bonked a 9 year old, bonked his daughterinlaw, have more wives than the rules laid down, committed murders and raped prisoners of war and best of all, produced verses that are simply ridiculous.

now how dumb one can be .... no disrespect

[iffo]

piscohot
this coming from someone who believed in a religion brought on by a man who was a robber, who bonked a 9 year old, bonked his daughterinlaw, have more wives than the rules laid down, committed murders and raped prisoners of war and best of all, produced verses that are simply ridiculous.

now how dumb one can be .... no disrespect

Your perception, not reallity ...

[Chiclets]

piscohot
this coming from someone who believed in a religion brought on by a man who was a robber, who bonked a 9 year old, bonked his daughterinlaw, have more wives than the rules laid down, committed murders and raped prisoners of war and best of all, produced verses that are simply ridiculous.

now how dumb one can be .... no disrespect

Your perception, not reallity ...

Years of brainwashing, result .... your delusion, not reality.

[iffo]

Your answers show your weakness, still did not address the problem about Atheism that I raised, instead you try to change the topic back to Islam

A scholar once said probability of intelligent life getting created on its own is like a torando hitting a house and in result produce a jumbo jet ...