I'd like some advice please. :)

[debunker]

You still couldn't answer my question about Eid-ul-Adha.
The thundstorm, tornado that I have created in your head and the more you think about it the more pain you will feel.
In your own words, it was atomic bomb in your mind.
In your own words you do not want to think about it because you might losse your religon and that you do not want to lose your religion.
therefore, you decided to run.
Run, debunker, run. Run from the truth.

[AbdulRahman]

You still couldn't answer my question about Eid-ul-Adha.
The thundstorm, tornado that I have created in your head and the more you think about it the more pain you will feel.
In your own words, it was atomic bomb in your mind.
In your own words you do not want to think about it because you might losse your religon and that you do not want to lose your religion.
therefore, you decided to run.
Run, debunker, run. Run from the truth.

[AbdulRahman]

How are you doing dear AbdulRahman? When you joined FFI, I was under the impression that you were olde timer with a different nick and when you came out with "FUNCTIONAL MRI" .. brain scans and brain imaging., i was under the impression that I could learn something here. But what I am reading from you is this.. and that is Anger..anger and anger posts., I don't think such responses and challenges will solve the problems and achieve your goals whatever that goals may be dear Abdul.. In fact it appears you are creating a "CORNERED CAT SYNDROME" without you realizing it. Do you know what it is?? I wonder what brain scan of cat with Functional MRI will tell us on that. Any way what is your challenge..

....my question about Eid-ul-Adha.

The thundstorm, tornado that I have created in your head and the more you think about it the more pain you will feel.

In your own words, it was atomic bomb in your mind.....

My challange, about Quarbani/Eid-ul-Adha is so rock solid that you will not find an excuse or justification for your action and more importantly the thought about it.
Every time you think abou it It will come back to haunt you.

Oh I see., "Quarbani/Eid-ul-Adha" .. the atomic bomb ..The thunderstorm, the haunting tornado ....that YOU THINK YOU CREATED in the minds of people like "debunker "

Debunker is NOT REAL Muslim.. the way you think a "Muslim should be" .. He is FILTHY MOUTH with JUST UTTER FILTHY MOUTH. but very smart guy. So leave him alone and let me take up your challenge dear AbdulRahman., So what is your Challenge again.. guide me to the post please?? And did you read any good book recently??

with best regards
yeezevee

Yeezevee,

I am not your or FFi enemy.
Yes, I am almost finishing my one book a monthy plan now, current book "Mistakes Were Made (but not by me)" by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson.
Next in line for the month of November, is "the Brain that changes itself" by Norman Doidge, MD.

CORNERED CAT SYNDROME, Yes, I know, I have used similar term in my language but I did not know any such standard term exist in psychology or elsewhere. Is this your made up term? When I google exactly what you typed I did not find any such standard "Syndrome" term. Send me a link about it please.

You asked what is my challange, here it is again. Tell me your opinion about it.
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4598

[AbdulRahman]

Yeezevee,

You have not responded to the following.

YeeZeVee,

I like your way of arguments, very good and thank you.
I love to debate with well educated people.
YeeZeVee, Please fill in the blanks wherever I did not articulate my thought clearly enough.
In other words, try to re-present my arguments even better than how I presented, only after that give me your counter argument. I will do the same for you.

I think we have digressed from the original topic. Many new topics popped up. Yes, each of the new topics that you brought up are interesting can be discussed too.

For the time being let’s get back to the original topic.
Who should we condemn, Islam, Muslims or Both?

Your question, in what sense am I using the word “Condemn” is quite valid.
I will condemn them verbally only.
I believe, all government and media should but alas they don’t
Of course, other religions also have similar problems but not in such a degree and not in such a high number. Not only the potential danger but the forecasted danger from Islamic meme doesn’t look pretty. Please compare.
I will, concede, that as of today, no one knows how to handle the 1.3 billion parasites of the world. Only a handful of scientists are looking into this matter in a very small scale. This includes, Daniel Denette of Columbia University, Sam Harris and few others.
Obviously, you and I understand that we can’t fight these parasites with bombs and planes or wars. Yes, if we lower our higher standard of morality and reasoning to that of Muslims then it is relatively easy in theory, just wipe them off from the surface of the Earth. But we know that is not going to happen.

As I have said, by condemnation, I do not mean they need to be killed or even put to jail or not given an education on right and wrong, true and false, good and bad, morality, justice, fairness. They should be given education. But I must continually condemn them until their neural network reconfigured to the correct view of the real world.
Answering your question:
I am using the word “Condemn” as it is defined in the dictionary.
1 : to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation
2 to pronounce guilty

Upon my systematic, well thought out chain of interrogation, I will corner them and then they will have to say many horrible things that you won’t believe it. I can show that most Muslim will say those horrible unjust things from their conscious and mostly from subconscious level. Only after a lot of practice lies enter and reside into subconscious mind as true in the form of firmware kind of connections. Subconscious mind is 800 times faster than our conscious mind. These lie become part of their personality. As a result most Muslims have a very different world view. Most Muslims in essence are evil.
In the process of question/answer when they are forced to express their horrible belief I then justifiably will say to them:
Your thoughts make me sick, your thoughts are evil, and your thoughts are menace to the society. Your mere expression of your unjust thoughts that you are not even aware of the fact that those are unjust make me through up.
Above paragraph is the condemnation.
In addition, we must explain all of these to all the non-Muslims as well, so that everyone else can condemn not only Islam but Muslim as well.

References
It is my just conclusion that well educated, smart online debaters do not need references from its opponent except for extremely unique situation. Citing references is old business when there was no Internet. These day’s you can validate/invalidate almost anything you and I write in a matter of few hours. The reason of my adapting this policy is that I do not keep hundreds of links handy to just send it to the other party. Yes, if I have a link handy I will send it. That would save you some time. Otherwise, just go Google for it. You will find it.

To put it in other words, for 99% of the cases, anyone who asks for references of some data or topic, obviously, is not well versed in that topic in the first place. I won’t debate with that person anyway. There is no reason for me to send a link to show that world population is about 6.6 billion or the capital of Australia is not Sydney but Canberra or the Muslim population in the US is between 1% to 1.5% - depending upon the source you want to use.

Modern debate between well educated persons should be about showing, establishing the path, the connection between the data, knowledge, facts. That give coherency and consistency in thought. I call that wisdom.

Now,
We all know that today’s neuroscience/fMRI, of course, cannot read exact detail of our thoughts. But it can tell when a person is happy, sad, angry, calm, lying, sexually aroused, feeling love, hate, cognitively processing hard, with over 80% accuracy. As a matter of fact wheel chairs are being operated by tapping directly into the brain signal.
Yes, there is a margin of error in all of the above things but even our current system is imperfect, the successive approximation and statistical methodology works. It helps us to understand the world we live in.

Of course, there was no fMRI test done right after Jeffery Dahmer mutilated a person. But fMRI test were done while the selected sadistic subjects who were allowed to kill a spider and pulled off wing of a fly. Let your imagination work to understand the point I am trying to make.

Point I was trying to make is that, there are mental disorders that make some people do horrible things from which they draw cognitive consonance and avoid cognitive dissonance. Some of these people have birth defects and some are genetics and others are learned behavior.

Let me help you to understand.
Would you accept the fact that there are Genetics and Memetics in play here?
Nature versus Nurture!
Many sadistic, mentally sick people are now in prison about who we know that the problem was at least partially Genetics or Birth defects?
Do you think those 19 suicide bombers who slammed the plane into WTC had genetic problem?
[That was a rhetorical question. Obviously, you do not need to answer that.]

So, now,
Who should you condemn more for conducting horrible acts?
1) People who did that due to Genetic disorder.
2) People who did that due to Memetic disorder.
Please keep in mind there is no ghost in the brain. Only laws of nature is working here, combination of Genetics and Memetics response triggered by body’s internal and external stimuli.
Bottom line: We must stand up against bad thoughts, ridicule, condemn, and punish bad things not for revenge, not for retribution but for restitution and deterrence.
Just to remind you, mind is the operating system of all of our acts.

[expozIslam]

Have the basic decency of leaving the thread alone for the person who started it. Start your new debates in individual threads instead of hijacking other's threads

[AbdulRahman]

Have the basic decency of leaving the thread alone for the person who started it. Start your new debates in individual threads instead of hijacking other's threads

I was responding to Yezeevee question. He asked what was the challange that is why I had to repost it here. I did not mean to hijack anyones thread.

[yeezevee]

dear Abdul I know you are NOT enemy of FFI and or me., In fact in one of your posts you did say that., are you a REAL Muslim?? did you read Quran? did you read Bible?? Do you know the origin of Eid Ul-Adha ??

we will discuss the subject and the origins and reasons for this so-called Islamic festival at the link you provided

viewtopic.php?p=77556#p77556

go here..

with best
yeezevee

[AbdulRahman]

Yeezevee,

I am not your or FFi enemy.
Yes, I am almost finishing my one book a monthy plan now, current book "Mistakes Were Made (but not by me)" by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson.
Next in line for the month of November, is "the Brain that changes itself" by Norman Doidge, MD.

CORNERED CAT SYNDROME, Yes, I know, I have used similar term in my language but I did not know any such standard term exist in psychology or elsewhere. Is this your made up term? When I google exactly what you typed I did not find any such standard "Syndrome" term. Send me a link about it please.

You asked what is my challange, here it is again. Tell me your opinion about it.
viewtopic.php?p=75793#p75793

Well i will give my opinion and ideally I would like to get that answer from you but please watch this video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLd9ugcOeC8 Off course I don't agree with that guy about God.. or Love of God thing., but what he says is true w.r.t. to that festival origin...

Were you a Muslim dear Abdul?? or did you a participate in ANY FESTIVAL OF ANY RELIGION when you were a kid?? do you participate now?? and I will discuss your response from other folder viewtopic.php?p=77510#p77510 here

with best regards
yeezevee

Yes, I used to stupid Muslim a long, long, long time ago. Yes, i did all the festival. I no longer participate.

YeeZeVee wrote:

I read " Compassion is the basis of all morality.".,

False. Justice/Fairness is the foundation of all morality.
Think about it.

Justice and compassion both are good but which side do you take when they collide?
When you figure that out you will have first step as the foundation of all truth, rights and good.

[AbdulRahman]

YeeZeeVee,
My method of cornering Muslims is different than many. I bypass Muslims all bull, millions of interpretation of Quran, Hadith, and Islamic History etc. Because there is no end of it. Thousands people can come up with their own interpretation of justify their action.

So, I ask them what do you believe. Whatever their believes are I take their words for it. After all that’s what matters. Quran, Hadith, Islamic History had to be interpreted and accepted by mind.

So, how Qurbani/Eid-ul-Adha ritual started is irrelevant in my chain of logic.
My question:
Do you believe Allah said to do Qurbani on Eid-ul-Adha?
If they say yes, they are trapped. Then I present my original post on this.
What percentage of Muslims do you think will say Qurbani is not directed by Allah?


Where is your response to my long post above. Please scroll up 5 posts.

Who should we condemn, Islam, Muslims or Both?
by AbdulRahman » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:19 pm

[katmandu]

@ debunker

You irritate me - you know little yet spread yourself around as an authority on subjects - only confusing Siddid!

I feel sorry for you thát you say this is 'christian THEOLOGY' on that tasteless cheapy video that shows no understanding at all of CHRIST - Yet you say CLEVER video. Clever how? Of what? A cheapy cartoon with uncivilised voices not knowing what they are saying? RED SHOES 'what a 'brilliant comparison' indeed Pfff!

More of your nonsense: "

but these letters looked the same to the untrained eye (to people who weren't familiar with ancient Arabic text). As a result, Arabs DELIBERATELY invented the marks...'

You better study up on facts!

for starters:

"A mistranslation sets Christopher Luxenberg on the trail of the original Quran written in Aramaic, but Luxenburg is not the only one who thinks that the Quran was precedented by older texts written in Aramaic and not in Arabic during the time when Arabs didn't yet have their own script.
According to Luxemberg is the present-day Quran full of Aramaic elements which were no longer understood by later muslim commentators. Even now Arabic dialects have numerous Aramaic roots. Another possibility is that Arabic was the written language and Aramaic the everyday language and that the two intermingled and used in the Quran......

'Slave of God' in the Quran is indicated by 'LBD' (Aramaic) and the meaning in Arabic is 'to push', 'to gather together of a crowd'and the old islamic commentators ran aground in this context as they didn't understand what it meant. Aramaic letters differ from Arabic letters and have a different meaning. In Aramaic a lot of letters look similar...instances are de letters (L) en (E), where (E) represents the Aramaic throat-sound 'ayn' which occurs in Aramaic as well as in Arabic. ....Luxenberg comes to the conclusion that an error in translation occurred by someone who transscribed the earlier Aramaic Quran...... At the end of an Arabic Quran surah is now written (LBD) but nobody understands the true meaning thereof.
Luxenberg thins he is correct as this Quran passage does get a logical meaning if (LBD) is not translated as 'urgent', but (EBD) meaning 'to serve', or 'treat like a god'. A mistake in Arabic from (EBD) to (LBD) is impossible but is easily done in Aramaic..... It is almost a dective story about the perfect deformation of a word, and when the Aramaic words had crept in amongst Arabic they were hard to detect later on. ...

Luxenberg allready indicated that he is searching for the original Aramaic Quran in his book 'Die Dunkele Anfänge'[Darkness in the Beginning'] because of the difficulty in meaning of words in the ARAMAIC language"

[debunker]

You irritate me - you know little yet spread yourself around as an authority on subjects - only confusing Siddid!

I don't give a rat's ass if I irritate you or not.

I feel sorry for you

don't.

that you say this is 'christian THEOLOGY' on that tasteless cheapy video that shows no understanding at all of CHRIST - Yet you say CLEVER video. Clever how? Of what? A cheapy cartoon with uncivilised voices not knowing what they are saying? RED SHOES 'what a 'brilliant comparison' indeed Pfff!

oh well, I didn't make the video (an atheist who used to be a Christian did)... but I do think the guy is brilliant. I couldn't care less about what you think.

More of your nonsense:

You better study up on facts!

for starters:

Cut your crap already... I don't need an idiot to tell me that I've been reading Aramiac all these years without even knowing it.

[katmandu]

@ Siddid

Please do not take any notice of the uncivilised moron DEBUNKER who is full of HATE - though he pushes that onto others instead!

Do not listen to this vulgar man who has no knowledge about Koran, nor about Christianity is simply full of HATE!

Do not let him stop your SEARCH for truth!

JUST READ THE UNCIVILISED way he thinks and writes - and you know you should not want to have anything to do with him! He could be a 'taqiya' MUSLIM - read what he writes:

You don't get it, do you? It is NOT about hate... hate is ONLY the tool to serve their GREED! 65% of *dwindling* oil reserves is in the Persian Gulf area... they wouldn't give a rat's ass if the Gulf region were Muslim or not, had it not been for oil... got it?

They want oil + a lot Muslims are fucking assholes --> Great! demonize Islam [b][b]and demand the impossible: apostasy[/b][/b]! --> since they won't apostate then invade their countries and steal their oil.

TOTAL POPPYCOCK NONSENSE!

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2699&start=20#p45635"

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a rev

Didn't you see the links I gave you? The fucking neocons, ONLY 4 days after 9/11, they didn't want to attack resourceless Afghanistan, they wanted to attack IRAQ!!! The fucking neocons won't even be patient enough to put the necessary charade of fighting the war on terror, etc... they wanted to directly bomb Baghad without addressing Kabul first!

and this so-called 'Debunker' calls this UNCIVILISED, COARSE, TOTALLY WRONG video CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY - "CLEVER"

showing how tasteless this 'Debunker' himself is:

A clever short video clearly explaining the brilliance of *CHRISTIAN* theology.

A longer version.

you! are full of HATE 'Debunker' and I feel sorry for you!

[debunker]

@ Katmandu

@ Siddid

Please do not take any notice of the uncivilised moron DEBUNKER who is full of HATE - though he pushes that onto others instead!

Do not listen to this vulgar man who has no knowledge about Koran, nor about Christianity is simply full of HATE!

Do not let him stop your SEARCH for truth!

Hey, Katmandu... this is NOT an evangilical site! If you want to evangilize Sidsid and make her fall in love with Jesus and his Daddy (Yahweh), you could PM her and give her links to some Christian site.

Besides, I know that a lot of you are here to evangilize but why do you feel threatened by me?! I'm only one member and all my attacks on Christianity were provoked by smug Christians who thought they could teach me a lesson or two. I had no idea the links in my signature would cause all that pain! What would you have done if you saw my debates with some Christians in this forum?!

you! are full of HATE 'Debunker' and I feel sorry for you!

I am full of hate? You just called me an uncivlized vulgar moron for no reason whatsoever! All of that for two links?! Shall I add my debates too?

Anyway, instead of feeling sorry for me, how about you get busy praying to Yahweh to lead me to His way?

[katmandu]

@ Debunker

"for no reason"? Sure[b] only you [/b]would e.g. call this civilised:

I don't give a rat's ass if I irritate you or not

That

'Rat's ass'

is obviously you!

Nothing to do with 'evangelising' at all - but with YOU presenting yourself uncivilised; and a cheapy- tasteless video as 'my Debunker [b]in-depth knowledge of Christian theology'

[debunker]

@ Debunker

"for no reason"? Sure[b] only you [/b]would e.g. call this civilised:

I don't give a rat's ass if I irritate you or not

That

'Rat's ass'

is obviously you!

Nothing to do with 'evangelising' at all - but with YOU presenting yourself uncivilised; and a cheapy- tasteless video as 'my Debunker [b]in-depth knowledge of Christian theology'

Ok... Here's my response to you:

Some polite talk, Yahweh style!

The biggest lie Christians believe about their God is that He doesn’t like foul language. But Yahweh Himself never refrained from using the foulest language ever. In Ezekiel 23 He describes the northern and southern nations of Israel as two filthy whores! And in Ezekiel 23: 19-21 He goes to great lengths to describe the extent their whoredom. Another example is when He threatens the Israelites of their fate of eating human dung for bread and the special treatment He gives to their prophet (Ezekiel) is eating cow dung instead. (Ezekiel 4:12-15). Of course, foul language abounds in the holy Bible, these verses I listed are but a few.

So the point is: to swear is a divine behavior, and there’s no need to deprive your kids of using this type of language to creatively express themselves. If anything, you should promote swearing contests and crown as the winner the kid whose profanity outweighs that of Yahweh's.

So please Katmandu, stop lecturing me on foul language... no matter how hard I try, I will never beat Yahweh's filth.

[katmandu]

@ Debunker

Again I am NOT 'proseletizing - I do not give a HOOT who/what peope want to believe in; but Sidid asked reasonable questions, is looking for answers and has a right to GOOD replies on FFI! And there are plenty of very valuable answers to find on FFI posted over many years. So stop giving him your garbage answers as a waste of his time!

[debunker]

@ Debunker

Again I am NOT 'proseletizing - I do not give a HOOT who/what peope want to believe in; but Sidid asked reasonable questions, is looking for answers and has a right to GOOD replies on FFI! And there are plenty of very valuable answers to find on FFI posted over many years. So stop giving him your garbage answers as a waste of his time!

Awwwww! I believe you. So you just don't want me to waste her time? That's all? But why all the kicking and screaming for the links? These are in my signature, I didn't ask her to check'em.

Katamandu, dear, you're too obvious (even refering to *her* as *him* to give the impression you know nothing about her, is also obvious).

[AbdulRahman]

I already debunked the debunker.
He tries to pick on nieve people.
But he was cornerred by his own illogics about Islamic Qurbani/Eid-ul-Adha.
since then his is on the run from me.
He doesn't have an answer.

Debunker, the challange is still open for you, anywhere, anytime.

[yeezevee]

AbdulRahman

He tries to pick on nieve people.
But he was cornerred by his own illogics about Islamic Qurbani/Eid-ul-Adha.
since then his is on the run from me.
He doesn't have an answer

Common dear AbdulRahman., we got to move on., you can not be stuck with same old Gramophones.. in every post., There is more to Islam than just doing this in front of children and desensitizing them to prone to violence

So let us move on.. from that Eid-ul-Adha.

with best regards
yeezevee

[AbdulRahman]

Why should I need to move on to any other topic?
This single topic is bullet proof to show what has happened to Muslims' soul (mind)
The whole point is that even after explaining that sacrifying animal in the name of the entity one loves and amire is not a good thing they keep insisting upon it. This shows the extend of the damage of their neural circuitry.