why do you hate and refuse islam?

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ygalg
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by ygalg »

Islam seemhan wrote: Many Jews, in the time of the prophet Mohammed, worshipped Ezra not one god.

Ezra son of Allah that is muslims falsification. jews can only take credit for their own BS. this is not one of them.
I know that The Jews now worship Jehovah who eats, drinks wine, repents and has human traits.
I like this god. :rock:
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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skynightblaze
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by skynightblaze »

Islam seemhan wrote:
You have to prove to us that he was indeed sinless and was really a prophet before you use such arguments to draw conclusions that muhammad can never act contrary to laws of quran.
I dont see an answer to my point.You clubbed what I wrote here with the next point I made to make it look as if you have answered my point but I see you didnt bother to answer what I wrote.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Secondly the author doesn’t seem to know quran well.
No, we know our religion well and study Hadith but you as nonbelievers misunderstand Islam.
The badest thing is not misunderstanding Islam but it is interpreting Islam according to desires.
If you had known your religion well you wouldnt be a muslim.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
47:19
Know it! For sure, there is no god but Allah! Seek forgiveness for your sins as well as the sins of the believing men and the believing women. Allah is Aware of their movement on earth, and their places of residence!.

So Muhammad did sin and hence your author is a liar.
Tafsir Al Jalalyn:

[Know, then, that there is no god except God, that is to say, adhere, O Muhammad (s), to knowledge of this [fact] that will benefit you at the Resurrection, <and ask forgiveness for your sin >— this was said to him, despite his infallibility (‘isma), so that his community might emulate him [in this respect]. Indeed he did do this. The Prophet (s) said, ‘Verily I do ask God for forgiveness a hundred times every day’]
so the prophet Mohammed wants to educate his nation<muslims>
So now tafsir of Al Jalalyn becomes reliable when you need it but it isnt reliable when it exposes your fake prophet! This is called hypocrisy. Dont you see a problem with this? Muhammad bin lying quoted tafsir of Al - jalalyn and you dismissed it.
Btw cant a simple question cross your mind? If muhammad didnt sin and was infallible why should he ask for forgiveness?

Islam Seemhan wrote:
you can claim that muhammad didnt drink wine. You and I both have to prove our case . I shall prove it to you that indeed muhamamd was a fake prophet and he violated quran. I have done that below.

You have no evidences but I have evidences.
Mere claims arent evidences.
Islam seemhan wrote:
Muhammad took the booty for himself even when the owners of the booty were alive so that's stealing
Every time has rules which were applied to people who were living in that time.
One of the rule of wars in that time is If one team in a war defeated the other team, the victor team must take the booty of the other team because this team achieved victory.
Your stupid mind wants to distort the truth.
I thought muhammad was a prophet of GOd and not ordinary man who would follow the same evil practices that a common man would follow. What is the difference between him and ordinary men if he did the same things as people during those times did ? Neither you nor muhammad understood that when you make tall claims like being a prophet of GOd for entire mankind then you are expected to bring reforms by abolishing the evil things and be a forerunner and not follow the same practices .How can be an example for entire mankind(especially us) in such a case?

Also the fact, that when you take away belongings of the other party without their consent its stealing doesnt change an iota even if it was a practice during those days. Whether its acceptable or not that time is a different issue but it doesnt mean that its not stealing.

Islam Seemhan wrote:
IF wine is bad then it should be bad even in the heavens but you muslims are guaranteed rivers of wine in the heavens. So can you explain this stupidity?
Allaah describes the wine of the Hereafter as being different from the wine of this world. He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Round them will be passed a cup of pure wine —

46. White, delicious to the drinkers.

47. Neither will they have Ghoul (any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, a sin) from that nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom”

[al-Saaffaat 37:45-47]

So Allaah describes the wine of the Hereafter as:

1. white

2. delicious to the drinkers, unlike the wine of this world which is distasteful when drunk

3. having no “ghoul” (hurt, abdominal pain, headache, a sin) in it, which is what affects one who drinks it in this world, of headache, pain in the stomach and loss of reason. In Soorat al-Waaq’iah it says: “Wherefrom they will get neither any aching of the head” [56:19], i.e., they will not get a headache from it.

4. “nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom”, unlike the wine of this world which causes them to lose their minds.

Tafseer Soorat al-Saaffaat by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, p. 107-109.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The wine of the Hereafter is good, and does not cause any intoxication or harm. As for the wine of this world, it is harmful and causes intoxication. In other words, in the wine of the Hereafter there is no ghawl (intoxication) and the one who drinks it will not become intoxicated; it does not cause him to lose his mind and it does not cause physical harm. As for the wine of this world, it is harmful to mind and body alike. None of the harmful effects in the wine of this world will be found in the wine of the Hereafter. And Allaah is the source of strength. End quote.
Do you understand a simple fact that if the liquid that one drinks doesnt cause intoxication then it cant be wine. If what you say is true then Allah got it wrong when he said he would offer wine. Wine is a liquid that causes intoxication and if a particular liquid doesnt cause intoxication then it isnt wine at all and hence its incorrect to say that its wine. SO either Allah made a mistake here or you need to accept that your book is stupid to the core.

Islam seemhan wrote:
I aint an arabic expert
So do not be parrot and say the same thing which idiot Arab Christians always say.
How do you know the author of the article is a christian? Btw I am not trusting the author because he is a christian but because he/she has quoted reliable arabic dictionaries.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
WikiIslam wrote:
All of the following dictionaries confirm that نبيذ (nabidh) means Wine:
ECTACO Arabic dictionary • Babylon Onl ... Translate

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammad_dran" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... on_with_it

The above site has provided plenty of evidence confirming that Muhammad indeed drank wine and yes Arabic dictionaries have been used to make a case so we are supposed to trust what dictionary says and not what you or your author says.Click the site and visit the arabic dictionaries this site has quoted.

Firstly, the dictionaries which you put are not native Arabic.
The native Arabic dictionaries are:
Al Waseet.
Al wajeez
Al Moheet
Secondly, See what Wikiislam said also:

Lisaan Al-‘Arab: <language of Arab>
النبيذ هو ما يعمل من الأَشربة من التمر والزبيب والعسل والحنطة والشعير وغير ذلك.
يقال: نبذت التمر والعنب إِذا تركت عليه الماء ليصير نبيذاً... ويقال نبيذ سواء كان مسكرا أو غير مسكر

“Nabeeth is any drink that is made from dates, or grapes, or honey, or wheat, or barley, or other than that. And it is called Nabeeth whether it is intoxicating or not.” So it can be intoxicating OR NOT!

As-Sihaah Fil-Lughah: Only gives the meaning of throwing away – NO MENTION OF WINE OR INTOXICATING!
Al-Qaamoos Al-Muheet: Gives the meaning of throwing and turing something into juice or similar to it - NO MENTION OF WINE OR INTOXICATING! Maqaayyees Al-Lughah: والنَّبِيذُ التَّمر يُلقَى في الآنيةِ ويُصَبُّ عليه الماء – An-Nabeeth are the dates which are cast into a container and water is poured on it. NO MENTION OF WINE OR INTOXICATING!

So you should not be parrot who imitates the idiots without understanding
I made a mistake once . Neither were you correct when you claimed that Nabeez doesnt mean wine. Nabeez can mean wine.
Wiki islam also said this...
Spoiler! :
om the following hadith we see that Muhammad kept drinking from the same drink for three successive days while at the time there were no refrigerators to keep things in good condition. If it became rotten he poured it down:

حدثنا ‏ ‏مخلد بن خالد ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏أبو معاوية ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الأعمش ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي عمر يحيى البهراني ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن عباس ‏ ‏قال ‏
‏كان ‏ ‏ينبذ ‏ ‏للنبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏الزبيب فيشربه اليوم والغد وبعد الغد إلى مساء الثالثة ثم يأمر به ‏ ‏فيسقى الخدم أو ‏ ‏يهراق

Sunan Abi Dawood, drinks, quality of al-Nabeez no. 3226 (Arabic version)

Translation: Raisin was younbaz (prepared to be nabeez) and he drank it, the same day, the following day and the day after till the evening of the third day. Then he commanded that the servants would drink from it or to be poured down.

In a hot country like Saudi Arabia, within three days the nabeez will be strong to some extent.

In another hadith we find that Muhammad himself drank the strong nabeez but after he broke it with water which means that it is not the material itself that matters but the states of getting drunk:
عن أبي مسعود قال : عطش النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وهو يطوف فأتي بنبيذ من السقاية فقطب , فقيل : أحرام هو ؟ قال لا : علي بذنوب من ماء زمزم , فصب عليه وشرب "

[1]


Translation: Narrated by Abi Masoud, he said: The prophet PBUH got thirsty while he was doing tawaf (walking around the Black Stone), so he was given some nabeez from the al-Sekaa (pot made from skin) but he frowned and was asked: was it prohibited (haram)? He said No, fetch some zamzam water and he poured on it and drank.
Btw you should be the last person who should speak about copy pasting something one doesnt understand.YOu have been repeatedly copy pasting crap from other sites which I have debunked.What you said applies to you. First of all you reject ibn kathir and then quote Sami Zaatri who used Ibn KAthir to make his case and on top of that you quote an article from Sami Zaatri which debunks him rather than supporting. SO both you and Sami Zaatri are stupid so its better you dont talk about people being stupid.


Islam Seemhan wrote:
Btw drinking wine in control has advantages . Too bad Allah also didnt know this .
The verse is very obvious. Allah said that wine has advantages and disadvantages but its disadvantages are greater than its advantages

Tafsir Al Jalalyn:

They ask you about wine, and divinatory arrows, gambling, and what the ruling is regarding them. Say, to them: ‘In both, that is, in the partaking of both, is great sin (a variant reading [for kabīr, ‘great’] has kathīr, ‘much’) because of the fighting, cursing and swearing that ensue from it; and profit for men, by way of delight and enjoyment in wine, and acquiring money effortlessly from gambling; but the sin in them, that is, the degenerate behaviour in which they result, is greater, graver, than the usefulness’.
Thats why your quran is in error. The statement that wine has more disadvantages than advantages is not completely true. If you have control then wine has more advantages than disadvantages but ofcourse you wont understand such a simple thing.

Islam Seemhan wrote:
Well let me tell you that a 54 old person who gets aroused by seeing a 9 year old kid is not a perfect person. This is standard opinion supported even by medical science. Psychologically healthy and decent people are not aroused by children.
Stupid man, when I say the ''perfect man'', I mean that he was sinless.
You are pathetic fool. Having sex with a 9 year old kid is a sin . Dude get this thing in your head .Perfect men or sineless men cant be aroused by 9 year old kids. A 9 year old cant consent to sex so its rape as well paedophilia but I guess you would go on to say that its not a rape and 9 year old kids are mature to consent.
Islam seemhan wrote:
IF muhammad lived today then people would have beaten him black and blue and then handed him over to the police.
If he lives today, We all will welcome him, ask him to live with us and defend him.
So you would defend muhammad if he had sex with a 9 year old kid? So essentially would you be def ending a criminal?? Having sex with a 9 year old kid is a crime.Btw if he lived today you wouldnt be able to welcome him because he would be in a jail for having sex with a 9 year old kid and also for murdering and looting people.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Dude quran says that Muhammad performed no miracle. If you claim that Muhammad performed miracles then quran must be a lie. You are shooting yourself in the foot.

6:37
They also say, 'Why has no sign (ayatun) been sent down upon him from his Lord?' Say: 'Surely God is able to send down a sign (ayatan), but most of them know not.' S

17:90-93

They say, 'We will not believe thee till thou makest a spring to gush forth from the earth for us, or till thou possessest a garden of plants and vines, and thou makest rivers to gush forth abundantly all amongst it, or till thou makest heaven to fall, as thou assertest, on us in fragments, or thou bringest God and the angels as a surety, or till thou possessest a house of gold ornament, or till thou goest up into heaven; and we will not believe thy going up till thou bringest down on us a book that we may read. Say: 'Glory be to my Lord. Am I aught BUT A MORTAL, a Messenger?'
As I say, you misunderstand Islam and insist on your errors.

Let's see what tafsirs say.

Tafsir Al Jalalyn:

[And they, the disbelievers of Mecca, say, ‘Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?’, [a sign] such as the she-camel [of the prophet Sālih] or the staff [of Moses] or the Table [of Jesus]. Say, to them: ‘Surely God has the power to send down (read yunazzil or yunzil) a sign, from among those they have requested, but most of them do not know’, that its sending down would be a trial for them, for if they then [still] denied it, they would necessarily be destroyed.
or until you [come to] have a house adorned with gold, or ascend into the heaven, upon a ladder, and [even then] we will not believe your ascension, if you were to ascend into it, until you bring down for us, therefrom, a book, in which is [confirmed] your truthfulness, that we may read’. Say, to them: ‘Glory be to my Lord — this is a statement of amazement — Am I anything but a human, a messenger [from God]?’, in other words, like all [other] messengers, for they never brought [any] signs except by God’s leave.]
The prophet said ''I am a human and messenger''. Messengers are humans who brought signs by Allah's leave or after Allah allowed them to do so.


So according you that Muhammad could perform miracles only if God allowed him but not otherwise .I suppose you want to tell me that quran doesnt say muhammad cant perform any miracle but rather it says that he can only by grace of Allah.So lets see one more verse from your fake quran so that your argument is put to rest for forever.

17:59
And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).

Quran claims here that Allah never sent any signs with muhammad because the men of former generations treated them as false. So there you are exposed! YOur own quran says that muhamamd never performed any miracles so thank you for proving that quran is a lie.


Islam Seemhan wrote: The prophet Mohammed brought Miracles:

http://www.sunnah.org/history/miracles_of_Prophet.htm

Splitting of the Moon
• Food Multiplication
• Water Multiplication
• Supplication for Rain
• Lights to guide Companions
• Crying of the stem of the Date-palm Tree
• Glorification of Allah by the Prophet's meals
• The explusion of a liar's corpse by the Earth
• The Speech of the Wolf
• The Prophet's Night Journey to Jerusalem and Ascent to the Heavens


Start a new thread and quote each miracle and lets see how long you can defend.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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skynightblaze
Posts: 3920
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:51 am

Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by skynightblaze »

Islam seemhan wrote:
saying Islam was not spread by sword, that is ignorance on history.
Your ancestors were forcefull converted to islam.
You do not know that they felt happy because of being Muslims as we also do.
Islam saved them from their plight.
What was the "plight" from which islam saved?? How do you know they were happy?
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Who told you that reading biography is a must to understand a tafsir??? You are making up your own rules. A tafsir attempts to explain the quran and Ibn Kathir has provided the context in which quran was revealed. Now biography of Muhammad was never written to explain the quran.Btw if one reads Muhammads biography one cant stay a muslim. Its full of crimes of Muhammad. Infact reading his biography exposes your prophet more.
One who says this speech means that he is ignorant and stupid.
You shouldn't read thing and leave another thing.
To know every thing about Islam, you shouldn't read tafsirs and leave the biography of the prophet Mohammed.
To know really Islam, you should read the holy Quran, some tafsirs , Hadith and the biography of the prophet Mohammed.
If you read the biography of muhammad it shows muhammad as the worst creature to have y born on earth. You havent backed up what you said . Who told you that one has to read biography before reading a tafsir? There is no such rule so stop bullsh!ting . Your lies arent going to work here. Even if you look at biography of muhammad you clearly come to the same conclusion that muhammad was criminal who should have been killed well before he could kill others.

Islam Seemhan wrote:What you say shows that you all read nothing about Islam, you just repeat, like a parrot, the speeches of your idiot priests.
We quote the tafsirs and quotes from islamic scriptures. Muhhammad bin lying quoted tafsirs from AL- Jalalyn which clearly establishes the fact that your prophet was a hardcore criminal. You are yet to prove why the sources we quoted should be termed as idiots and dismissed. So far I see you call them idiots because they expose islam.

Islam Seemhan wrote:
First of all what is the basis on which you utter such comments like jews wanted adultery or they wanted to drink wine and therefore rejected islam? Where is the proof for such a baseless accusation? Quote me the sources that claim such things.
This is obvious. Infidels had some tyrannical habits. They also indulged in lusts. The Jews didn't prevent them from that.
At the same time they fought with the tyrannical people <infidels> against the prophet Mohammed and Muslims.
You need to prove this before making comments like this.
Islam seemhan wrote:
there is no question of they <the Jews>rejecting islam fearing the punishment for adultery
Rejecting Islam is not a problem but the main problem is breaking the treaties and combining with infidels and fighting Islam.
These are hollow claims unless you can back them with proofs.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Secondly your prophet too drank wine and drinking wine is not at all a bad thing.
The prophet Mohammed never drank wine and the native Arab dictionaries, which I mentioned above, prove that.
Muhammad did drink wine. You obviously didnt read the complete article of wiki islam.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Btw who are you or your prophet to intervene in other’s personal life? It’s their life and its their lookout whether they should drink wine or not. Its none of your prophet’s damn business!
Btw who are you or your ancestors the Barbaric shepherds Jews to intervene Muslims' life?
It's their life. The deeds of Muslims <worshiping one god-praying-fasting-hijab> are none of your barbaric ancestors the Jews' damn business.
We need to intervene because what you believe is creating a problem for the rest of the world today in form of terrorism. Your prophet was the first muslim terrorist and I see those who follow him are becoming terrorists. There is a hadith where you filthy prophet admitted himself being victorious through terror. If you muslims had kept your religion to yourself none of us would have bothered you. You can worship whatever you want until you dont cause problems for others.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Lastly even jews worship one god so why would they reject Muhammad if he was talking about the worshiping one God?
Many Jews, in the time of the prophet Mohammed, worshipped Ezra not one god. I know that The Jews now worship Jehovah who eats, drinks wine, repents and has human traits.
Jews dont consider Ezra to be son of GOd. Again you have been fed with bullsh!t. Quran claims that jews considered Ezra to be son of Allah but they never ever considered Ezra as son of GOd. This is a false statement and its because your fake prophet ignorantly made this statement.

Also its none of your dickhead prophets business to determine what jews should worship!
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Btw why worshiping one god is more logical than worshiping many gods?
The signs of this universe such as high mountains, seas, rivers and natural phenomena show that there must be one who designs all these things. If there is more than one god which one you will choose to pray to him?
Who designs the designer?? If universe and other things cant come to existence on their own and require a creator then how can a complex entity like Allah come into existence on its own ?? If you say that Allah always existed then why cant anyone claim that universe always existed ? Remember we dont know what happened before big bang .

More ever you ask me as to which God one will pray. Why cant anyone worship all the Gods one believes in???
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Btw you speak as if you are confident that there exist one god. Give me a single proof that confirms that there is only 1 God . Your prophet would have a point if he could prove :

1)There exist only 1 God
2) that 1 God is Allah
3) and he is the messenger of that God Allah.

Unless your prophet couldn’t prove this there is no reason why any sane person is supposed to pay attention to the ramblings of your prophet and hence jews and Christians or even pagans had the right to reject him.


I am confident that there is one god. I feel that there is one god Allah who creates me.
The scientific miracles ,which Allah mentioned in the holy Quran, are proved by non-Muslim scientists.
So finally you admitted that you feel that there is 1 God and you dont have convincing proofs to justify that there is indeed 1 God. Just like you others are also confident that there are multiple Gods or there is no God at all and hence they reserve the right to reject your stupid prophet.

Also now non muslims become reliable when they speak good of islam but they are liars and cheaters when they show muhammad in bad light :lol: You are clearly biased and you have been taught since childhood that anything that exposes islam must be unreliable.

If you believe that quran has a scientific miracle then start a thread in the quran and the hadith folder here and give me a single proof of scientific miracle in the quran.All these claims are rubbish and cooked up claims to justify faith in islam. Not a single of them can stand scrutiny.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
I read on wikipedia who takes a reference from Tabari saying that the king only asked to seize and bring Muhhamad before him but there was no mention of beheading muhhamad . Muslim apologists also didn’t provide any proofs for this.
Are you so stupid that you can not understand the situation?

The king of Persia was tyrannical and arrogant. He sent 2 men who talked to the prophet impolitely but the prophet was modest so he did not kill them.
Lets get this straight that your prophet didnt have good intentions . He wanted to rob Caesar and Khosrau 1 year before the battle started between muslims and persians so one can clearly see his filthy intentions.In my previous post I quoted Ibn Ishaq , 2 sahih hadiths wherein we can clearly see muhammads intentions of looting 1 year before the real problem between the parties started.

Btw Where is the proof that king of persia was tyrant???
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Romans saw islam as a threat because your prophet threatened them with a letter saying accept islam or else you wont be safe None is going to feel safe after receiving such letters. It takes no brain to understand that such threat is an offensive threat
Firstly, the prophet's letter was never threat. Read the letter:

[In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This letter is from Muhammad the slave of Allah and his Apostle to Heraclius, the ruler of the Byzantines. Peace be upon him who follows the right path. Furthermore, I invite you to Islam and if you become a Muslim you will be safe, and Allah will double your reward, and if you reject this invitation of Islam you will be committing a sin by misguiding your subjects. And I recite to you Allah's statement:
“O People of the Scriptures! Come to a word common to you and us that we worship none but Allah and that we associate nothing in worship with Him, and that none of us shall take others as Lords beside Allah. Then if they turn away, say: Bear witness that we are Muslims (those who have surrendered to Allah). (Qur’an: Surah 3, Ayah 64).]


Where is the threat?
The prophet was so modest that he said he is a slave of Allah.
Ok I misread that part .I agree that I made a mistake. The letter isnt threatening but yet you didnt answer the point that I made . Muhammad had intentions to loot the romans a long back in 627 AD. How do you explain that??

One more point . Its not a modest statement when muhammad said he is a slave of Allah .Even politicians make such claims but that doesnt mean they are modest. This is no good reason to believe that Muhammad was a modest man because even a con man can make such statement.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
So you see Muhammad had plans to loot Caesar as well Khosrau even before the tussle between muslims(i.e in 627 AD) and them started so how can they be the romans be the aggressors?
There is no relationship between the prophet's letter and the aggression of Romans on Muslims.
the letter first admired the king Heraclius.
There is no direct relation but it does prove that muhammad wanted to loot the romans and khosrau.
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Spoiler! :
Heraclius read the letter through an interpreter and then asked the people in his court, to find out if there was someone in the city, who knew the Prophet. Abu Sufyan with his companions was brought into the court.

The emperor asked Abu Sufyan, "What is his family status amongst you?"

"He belongs to a good noble family amongst us.", replied Abu Sufyan

"'Was anybody amongst his ancestors a king?" Heraclius asked.

"No," said Abu Sufyan

"Do the nobles or the poor follow him?",
Heraclius questioned again.

"It is the poor who follow him.", replied Abu Sufyan.

Heraclius was now becoming more and more interested and he went on asking questions.

His next question was, "Are his followers on the increase or decrease?"

"Increasing", Abu Sufyan replied shortly.

He then asked, 'Does anybody amongst those who embrace his religion become displeased and renounce the religion afterwards?'
I replied, 'No.'

"'Have you ever accused him of telling lies before his claim to be a Prophet"? asked Heraclius.
"No", admitted Abu Sufyan.
"Does he break his promises?", Hercules once again asked.

"Not so far. But we have to see whether he carries out the new agreement made between us and him", Abu Sufyan answered lengthily for a change.

"Have you ever fought him in wars?" Heraclius questioned.
"Yes", answered Abu Sufyan

"What has been the result?" Heraclius asked, getting more and more interested.

"Sometimes we have won, sometimes he", replied Abu Sufyan.

"What does he teach?" asked Heraclius

"Worship One God, join no partners with Him and to renounce all that our ancestors had said, carry out your prayers, be chaste, speak the truth and keep union with your relatives", answered Abu Sufyan, even surprised at his own answer as it sounded like he was preaching Islam.
Heraclius stood up and said, "If all you said is true, he will very soon occupy this place underneath my feet. I was certain that a Prophet was coming, but I didn't know that he would be born in Arabia. and if I could reach him definitely, I would go immediately to meet him and if I were with him, I would certainly wash his feet
The rubbish you quoted has been answered below..

http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/heraclius.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Islam Seemhan wrote:
Do you think people are going to like and love muhammad if he is going to issue threats?Your prophet had plans to loot the romans even when there was no conflict between romans and muslims so this clearly proves your theory that romans were the aggressors wrong!
Read accurately the story of the kings with the prophet's letter before accusing the prophet of rubbish speeches.
The same trait ''dishonesty''. You did not mention the whole story.
I do agree that I made a mistake but however you didnt answer as to why muhammad promised the wealth of romans and khosrau when there was no strife between them. This does show the character of your filthy prophet.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

Islam semen wrote:
saying Islam was not spread by sword, that is ignorance on history.
Your ancestors were forcefull converted to islam.
You do not know that they felt happy because of being Muslims as we also do.
Islam saved them from their plight.
Then why didn't they spread their religion through healings like the first apostles did after Jesus? If they felt happy, they would having willingly converted and no sword would be needed like people did at the beginning of Christianity before it became politicized.
Islam semen wrote:
if was not for the conquest campaign, there would not be al aqsa mosque nor dome of the rock on jewish temple mount.
There is no relationship between Al-Aqsa mosque and your alleged temple.
Al-Aqsa mosque was mainly built by the prophet Abraham 4011 years ago
Who says that and what is their basis for that?
Islam semen wrote: but your Jewish temple was built and destroyed more than one time. Your teachers know these facts but they don't reveal it. You, as Jews, are professional in falsifying the truths.
Even the Dead Sea scrolls didn't reveal any of the nonsense you speak of. It is Muhammad who later invented a lie and tried to hijack Judaism and Christianity.
Islam semen wrote:
Who told you that reading biography is a must to understand a tafsir??? You are making up your own rules. A tafsir attempts to explain the quran and Ibn Kathir has provided the context in which quran was revealed. Now biography of Muhammad was never written to explain the quran.Btw if one reads Muhammads biography one cant stay a muslim. Its full of crimes of Muhammad. Infact reading his biography exposes your prophet more.
One who says this speech means that he is ignorant and stupid.
Why? Because you need it to be that way?? It's a rather pointless statement if you can't explain why that is true. Just making a claim means nothing. Here, watch this. "Your wrong". See?? I can make claims out of nowhere as well. It's easy. But it's a meaningless statement unless I explain WHY you should be thought to be wrong. Can you understand that?? Has anybody ever explained that to you?? I don't think anybody has or else it would be common sense to you.

Why is your statement true? Simply because it meets what you need to be the truth?? Has anybody ever taught you the meaning of the word "objective"?? Look it up.
Islam semen wrote: You shouldn't read thing and leave another thing.
To know every thing about Islam, you shouldn't read tafsirs and leave the biography of the prophet Mohammed.
To know really Islam, you should read the holy Quran, some tafsirs , Hadith and the biography of the prophet Mohammed.
1) Why only some tafsirs and how do we decide which ones to read and which ones we shouldn't read?? But then again, i already know the answer to that question. You read the tafsir that says what you want it to say and ignore the tafsir that says things you don't like. Again, please look up the word "objective" because apparently you have absolutely no understanding of such a thing and you're thinking is purely "subjective", meaning that you focus on what you like and ignore what you don't. In case nobody has ever taught you, this is called a "logical fallacy". Look that one up as well.

2) Read the hadiths?? Do you mean like this hadith where Muhammad tells us the sun orbits the earth everyday and then makes a prophecy about the sun reversing it's course causing it to rise in the west and then tells us that this is the meaning behind 38:36?? Didn't he mean to say that the spin of the earth will reverse rather than the sun's course reversing?? A reversal of the sun's course will not cause it to rise in the west, but this just so happens to be what people of the 7th century mistakenly thought before they realized that the earth spins. How could someone make an impossible prophecy that clearly misunderstands the nature of the earth and sun and what creates day and night and then say God told them this?
Islam semen wrote: What you say shows that you all read nothing about Islam, you just repeat, like a parrot, the speeches of your idiot priests.
Actually, that's you. If you're not reading the Quran and repeating it like a mindless parrot, then please tell me what you thought when Allah said "I swear by the stars that run their course and hide themselves". How does the course that the stars travel cause them to be hidden from us?? It's the earth's spin that causes this. Yet another blatant error that you simply float over as though you were hypnotized. Think about it. It's right in front of your face, waving at you, winking at you, waiting to be noticed, but you're hypnotized and simply cannot see it or simply refuse to see it.
Islam semen wrote:
Lastly even jews worship one god so why would they reject Muhammad if he was talking about the worshiping one God?
Many Jews, in the time of the prophet Mohammed, worshipped Ezra not one god. I know that The Jews now worship Jehovah who eats, drinks wine, repents and has human traits.
Who told you this?? What is your basis?
Islam semen wrote: I am confident that there is one god. I feel that there is one god Allah who creates me.
The scientific miracles ,which Allah mentioned in the holy Quran, are proved by non-Muslim scientists.
I think it's a miracle that you ignore the verse where Allah swears by the stars that run their course and hide themselves. As far as the scientist go, this is a tremendous, money making scam for them. Muslims are so desperate for educated scientists to say good things about the Quran, that all a scientist has to do is to say something remotely good, and his work will sell like hotcakes all over the ignorant, backwards, uneducated Arab world and he will make a ton of money. People such as yourself are their ignorant stooges and deep down inside they probably laugh at how gullible you are. But a desperate need for something to be true will make someone tremendously gullible.
Islam semen wrote: The case of the fly is one of the scientific Miracles.

I want to ask you all, Who told the illiterate and noble man ,who was living in the desert with nomads, about the diseases of flies?
Have you ever read the hadith that said that when Ayesha was menstruating, the prophet used to rest his head on her lap and read the Quran??
Islam semen wrote: In the time of the prophet, there were no many instruments to enable people to discover new things. Allah taught him many secrets which were proved later by modern science.
Sure, like the sun reversing it's course and rising in the west. :lol: Just in case you learned science at the mosque rather than a real classroom, the sun orbits around a galaxy and the reversal of it's course would not cause it to rise in the west. For the sun to rise in the west, the spin of the earth would have to be reversed and it would have nothing at all to do with the sun's movement. But not only did Muhammad think it did, he even made a prophecy about it reversing, and all prophesies are supposed to come from Allah, right?? If it doesn't, then the person is lying when they claim Allah is telling them this. So how could Allah tell Muhammad something that is so wrong?? The answer is, he didn't, and Muhammad was either crazy or lying.
Islam semen wrote: Your non-Muslim scientists prove the validity of the holy Quran and Islam.
In addition, the prophet Mohammed brought many miracles to them.

• Splitting of the Moon
• Food Multiplication
• Water Multiplication
• Supplication for Rain
• Lights to guide Companions
• Crying of the stem of the Date-palm Tree
• Glorification of Allah by the Prophet's meals
• The explusion of a liar's corpse by the Earth
• The Speech of the Wolf
• The Prophet's Night Journey to Jerusalem and Ascent to the Heavens

http://www.sunnah.org/history/miracles_of_Prophet.htm
Every single one of those has been debunked and that's the subject of a whole other topic by itself. You're being lied to, big time. For example, because man walks on the moon, that means the moon has been split open?? Huh?? Look at the wishful thinking and stretching and distorting that is going on. Can you see it?? I guess not.
Islam semen wrote:
I read on wikipedia who takes a reference from Tabari saying that the king only asked to seize and bring Muhhamad before him but there was no mention of beheading muhhamad . Muslim apologists also didn’t provide any proofs for this.
Are you so stupid that you can not understand the situation?

The king of Persia was tyrannical and arrogant. He sent 2 men who talked to the prophet impolitely but the prophet was modest so he did not kill them.
He asked you where there is a mention of beheading Muhammad, then you call him stupid, and then you never provide that mentioning. So he is right because you couldn't back up your claim and provide evidence. Just calling him stupid in response fools nobody here. So far, you are clearly the stupid one and I've already given you a few, clearly explained reasons why that you will not be able to answer. You can't answer about the stars running their course and hiding themselves. You can't answer about Muhammad telling us the sun will reverse it's course and rise in the west.
Islam semen wrote:
I didn't repeat any speech, I quoted truthful tafsir. What did you think about it when you read it?? Did you even read it at all?
Yes, I read but what I said above about your friend skynightblaze is applied to you also.
I said, i quoted truthful, scholarly tafsir and you called that things from my filthy friends.
Islam semen wrote: your filthy friends are dishonest because they neither complete the stories and menthion verses of The holy Quran in their full context nor relate events to each others.
My filthy friends are the original and most respected scholars of Islam. Didn't you know that?? Do you even know what tafsir is?? It is scholarly commentary by Islamic scholars about the meaning of verses in the Quran. How could you call Islamic scholars my filthy friends?

The filthy friends whom I mean are never the respectful Muslim scholars but I mean those who neither completed the story of the king of Persia nor the story of the Romans.[/quote]

IBN Kathir, Al Jalalayn and IBN Abbas are among the MOST respected scholars, and they are the MOST respected scholars according to MOST MUSLIMS. So what in God's name could you possibly be talking about?? Geez, even when someone accurately quotes the most respected scholars, Muslims true to lie about it and cover it up. do you know why we should trust these scholars?? Because they are among the first and original Islamic scholars and they wrote honestly about the Quran because back then, nobody had any need to "whitewash" Islam and alter it to fit modern morality. It is the scholars of today that are lying and they have many motives to do so.
Islam semen wrote:
I did read it, and you didn't answer them at all. .
But why you repeated the same speech of your friends
Because you still haven't sufficiently answered the problems it raises. What makes you think that you did??
Islam semen wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even read the tafsir because it became too painful to read
No.
Well what did you think about the agreement with the Asham Christians where the Asham Christians outline all sorts of humiliations that they had to agree to in order to prevent Muslims from "doing what they will" to them? And they even said, "we agree to these things against ourselves". So it's i9n clear language that many humiliations were laid out to them and if they didn't humiliate themselves, Muslims could do whatever they wish with them and they are no longer protected. Protected from what?? From Muslims killing them like they did with the pagans. That was an historically documented agreement and you merely ignore it and live in denial.
Islam semen wrote:
I'm sorry that modern Muslims of today lie to you about the meaning off the Quran so that they can twist it to make it more suitable for modern sensibilities,
I think you should put the name of your friends instead of the ''Modern Muslims''' because they interpret the holy Quran according to their desires and they don't relate everything to each other.
They had no reason to reinterpret and alter the meaning of the Quran because it wasn't so offensive to people's sensibilities of that time, but it IS offensive to the sensibilities of people in modern times. So who has more motive to alter the actual meaning of the Quran, the original scholars or modern scholars?? Think about it. You must have at least a few drops of common sense in you. Maybe not.
Islam semen wrote:
I didn't say it was because they conspired against Muhammad, I merely quoted the tafsir word for word of IBN Kathir, IBN Abbas and Al Jalalayn. So even when someone quotes your own respected scholars perfectly accurately, you still try to turn it into some sort of conspiracy. What is the matter with you? Truth hurts, eh??
Every verse in the holy Quran has interpretation and reasons of revelation <historical context>.
Reading tafsirs of every verse without historical context means nothing
They gave historical context. For example, the agreement of dhimmitude between the Asham Christians and the conquering Muslims. What could you possibly be talking about??
Islam semen wrote: Come back to the historical context to realize that the non-Muslims first tortured and fought Muslims and broke the treaties.
If you complete the verse 9-29, you will find that the non-Muslims also wanted to eradicate Islam by their mouths.
That's what the Meccans did to Muhammad when he lived in Mecca and didn't have an army. Was that what the Christians of a far away land of Syria did to Muhammad?? Come on, quit with the nonsense excuses.
Islam semen wrote:
Well, perhaps Christians hated Islam because they thought Muhammad was lying about Jesus and was trying to nullify the sacrifice he made for mankind.
I should mock at you and your people because you worship dead man as you believe. :lol:
Mock me?? Listen dumb ass, the Quran itself says Jesus was never killed and instead was raised up, so therefore he is still alive and Islam talks about him returning. So you don't even know your own religion. Stupid ignoramus. You deserve every drop of disrespect that you are receiving from me. What a stupid "Mobot" you are. Have you ever even thought an original thought of your own in your entire life?? Are you honestly this hypnotized??
Islam semen wrote:

[The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.]
Book of Ezekiel 18-20

so How Jesus sacrificed himself for mankind.
That's talking human sons and human fathers, noit the relationship between the Heavenly father and the son. And Jesus very often and clearly distinguishes between the father on earth and the heavenly father. Also, it says the soul that sinneth, but even in Islam, it says Jesus was without sin. So how is it that, once again, i know your religion better than you do?? Dumbass. What is the matter with your head? It can't be a genetic thing, so it must be an Islamic thing. :lol: I swear, I've never met a more consistently stupid people in my life than Muslims.
Islam semen wrote:
Praise to Allah, I am Muslim
:lol:
Your 20% profit tried to hijack these religions and use them to create his own religion for the Arabs.
Islam semen wrote:
You first attack Islam and Muslims so I should defend my religion
Oh, it's YOUR religion?? You own Islam?? Think about how stupid that statement was. Never mind, you can't. Are you your religion?? Does your religion go away when you die?? Think about it, blockhead. Why are Muslims so handicapped when it comes to reasoning??
Islam semen wrote:
and show you the falsehoods of your religions from your bible.
You could try to show me an infinite amount of falsehoods that you claim are in the Bible, but what does that do to make Islam true?? Has it ever occurred to you that this does nothing to prove that Islam is true?? Of course it hasn't, because that is sound reasoning, and as a Muslim, you can't reason properly. So let's give an illustration of exactly what you are trying to do. Someone comes by and pokes a hole in your boat. So, what's your solution to fix the problem?? Do you fix the hole in your boat by plugging it up?? No, because for some stupid reason, you think that the most effective way to fix the hole in your boat is to try and poke a hole in someone else's boat. When we give a clear illustration or example like this, look at how utterly stupid your behavior looks. And yet, the IS precisely what you are attempting. See how stupid it is?? Who taught you how to reason?? Ask for your money back. :lol:

That's enough utter stupidity for now. My stupidity gauge has gone off the charts. Maybe later, I'll get to the rest of your stupidity if I can stomach it. :lol:
orange jews for breakfast and 20 oz he brews at night

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pr126
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by pr126 »

skynightblaze wrote:
If you had known your religion well you wouldnt be a muslim.
Unless he is a moral degenerate and a psychopath. That's why dawa in prisons so successful.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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skynightblaze
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by skynightblaze »

Islam Seemhan wrote:Who said that Khalid described Christians as dogs?

Edward Gibbon, who hated Islam and its followers, said that..
Khalid never said this speech. You and Edward Gibbon invent lies against him.
Lets for the time being assume that Gibbon was lying but the problem for you is that isn’t the first time that Khalid made such statements.

Khalid wrote a letter to governor of Persia and said the same thing .Even your own muslims aren’t ashamed to quote these words of Khalid .They are on internet everywhere.
Witness pioneer- a muslim site wrote: No sooner had Muthanna left Madina than he was joined by Khalid bin AI-Waleed at the head of an army 10,000 strong. When the two joined forces at the borders near the delta. Khalid sent a letter to Hormuz, the Persian governor and leader, offering him three options:
1. to embrace Islam;
2. to pay tribute;
3. to fight.

The same message as he gave the romans and coincidentally it matches 9:29!
Khalid wrote: Submit to Islam and be safe. Or agree to the payment of the Jizya, and you and your people will be under our protection, else you will have only yourself to blame for the consequences, for I bring the men who desire death as ardently as you desire life."
Again we see the same message.

So I don’t think Gibbon must be lying because We see the same message everywhere in islamic scriptures.All the tafsir scholars agree with the message of Khalid and the verse which supports Khalid is 9:29 so in the light of the proof its not unreasonable to believe what Gibbon quoted about the words of Khalid . It isnt that such statements arent found in entire islamic history anywhere and Gibbon merely pulled this thing out of his arse.
Islam seemhan: wrote: Generally, When Khalid did wrong <Killing non-Muslims because they refused to accept Islam>, the prophet Mohammed was very furious because of this deed so he <the prophet> said that he is innocent <acquitted> of what Khalid did. If Islam was spread by sword , the prophet Mohammed would reward Khalid but he rebuked him.
Just because Muhammad didn’t approve the killing of innocent doesn’t mean he never practiced unjust killing.There are dozens of proof proving that Muhammad indeed killed people unjustly..

I will post some quotes from biographies of muhamamad ,You earlier made a claim that to understand islam one must read the biography. Lets see what the biographies of Muhammad have to offer about the character of your prophet..
Spoiler! :
Ishaq: 676
"'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"

Here Muhammad asked to kill the woman because she criticized him. How do you explain this?? I guess you would even claim here that the woman was a threat to muhammads life.

;Tabari VIII:179 Ishaq:550

"Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his.... His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa'id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her."[/quote]

Ishaq:597
"When the Apostle returned to Medina after his raid on Ta'if, word spread that he had killed some of the men who had satirized and insulted him. The poets who were left spread in all directions."
Islam Seemhan wrote: Read and ponder this situation accurately:

Three months after Khalid's arrival at Medina, Muhammad sent an envoy to the Ghassanid ruler of Syria, a vassal of Byzantine empire, with a letter inviting him to convert to Islam. While passing through Mu'tah, this envoy was intercepted and killed by a local Ghassanid chieftain by the name of Shurahbil ibn Amr. Traditionally, diplomatic envoys held immunity from attack, and the news of this act enraged Medina.[14]
An expedition was immediately prepared to take punitive action against the Ghassanids. Muhammad appointed Zayd ibn Harithah as the commander of the force. In the event of Zayd's death, the command was to be taken over by Ja`far ibn Abī Tālib, and if Jafar were to be killed, the command would be in the hands of `Abd Allah ibn Rawahah. In the event that all three were killed, the men of the expedition were to select a commander from amongst themselves.[14]
All three named commanders were slain during the battle, and Khalid was selected as the commander. He was able to maintain his heavily outnumbered army of 3,000 men against a massive army of the Byzantine Empire and Ghassanid Arabs in what would be known as the Battle of Mu'tah. Khalid assumed command of the Muslim army at the crucial moment, and turned what would have been a bloody slaughter into a strategic retreat and saved the Muslim army from total annihilation.[15]
During nightfall, Khalid sent some columns behind the main army, and the next morning prior to the battle they were instructed to join the Muslim army in small bands, one after the other, giving an impression of a fresh reinforcement, thus lowering the opponent's morale. Khalid somehow stabilized the battle lines for that day, and during the night his men retreated back to Arabia. Believing a trap was waiting for them, the Byzantine troops did not pursue.[16] Khalid is said to have fought valiantly at the Battle of Mu'tah and to have broken nine swords during the battle. After the Battle of Mu'tah, Khalid was given the title Sword of Allah for bringing back his army to fight another day.[17][18]
A year later, in 630 AD, the Muslims advanced from Medina to conquer Mecca. In the Conquest of Mecca Khalid commanded one of the four Muslims armies that entered Mecca from four different routes, and routed the Qurayshi cavalry. Later that year, he participated in the Battle of Hunayn and the Siege of Ta'if.
He was also sent to the Banu Jadhimah tribe. Khalid persuaded them to disarm by acknowledging that they had become Muslims, and then killed some of them. When Muhammad heard of this, he declared to God that he was innocent of what Khalid had done, and sent Ali ibn Abi Talib to pay the survivors compensation.
Here is the complete story and that too by a muslim who has used muslim sources to make his claims..
Spoiler! :
What an excellent slave of Allah: Khalid ibn al-Walid, one of the swords of Allah, unleashed against the unbelievers!"
[Prophet Muhammad (SAWS)]1
Three months after his arrival at Madinah, Khalid got his chance to show what he could do as a soldier and a commander for the faith which he had just embraced. The Prophet had sent an envoy to the Ghassan 2 Chieftain of Busra, with a letter inviting him to join Islam. While passing through Mutah this envoy was intercepted and killed by a local Ghassan chieftain by the name of Shurahbil bin Amr. This was a heinous crime among the Arabs, for diplomatic envoys held traditional immunity from attack no matter how hostile a power they represented. The news of this outrage inflamed Madinah.
An expedition was immediately prepared to take punitive action against the Ghassan, and the Prophet appointed Zaid bin Harithah as the commander of the force. If he were killed, the command was to be taken over by Jafar bin Abi Talib. If he were killed, the command would devolve upon Abdullah bin Rawahah. Having appointed these officers in the chain of command, the Prophet said, "If all three of these are killed, let the men select a commander from among themselves." 3
The expeditionary force consisted of 3,000 men, one of whom was Khalid, serving as a soldier in the ranks. The mission the Prophet gave to Zaid was to seek out and kill the person responsible for the murder of the Muslim envoy, and to offer Islam to the people of Mutah. If they accepted Islam, they were not to be harmed. At the time this force was sent out the Muslims had no knowledge of the enemy strength that they would have to deal with.
Spirits were high as the expeditionary force began its march from Madinah. When the force arrived at Ma'an, reports were received for the first time that Heraclius, the Eastern Roman Emperor, was in Jordan with "100,000 Romans" and had been joined by "100,000 Christian Arabs"-mainly from the Ghassan. The Muslims remained in Ma'an for two days debating their next move. There was a certain amount of hesitation and nervousness. Some suggested that the Prophet be informed of the large strength of the enemy so that he could give them fresh orders on what course of action they should adopt; but Abdullah bin Rawahah (the third?in?command) did not agree with this suggestion, as it would entail unnecessary delay and would give the impression that the Muslims were afraid. He recited a few verses and made a stirring speech to raise the spirits of the men. He concluded by saying, "Men fight not with numbers or weapons but with faith. By going into battle we have a choice of two glorious alternatives: victory and martyrdom." 4 This speech dispelled all doubt from the minds of the Muslims, and they promptly resumed their march towards Syria.
The Muslims reached a place near the frontier of Balqa-a district in the east of what is now Jordan-where they made contact with a large force of Christian Arabs. Not finding this place suitable for battle, the Muslim commander withdrew his force to Mutah. The Christian Arabs followed the Muslims, and the two forces again met at Mutah. Both sides now decided to fight. It was the second week of September 29 (the third week of Jamadi-ul-Awwal, 8 Hijri).
Zaid deployed his force in the normal pattern of a centre and two wings. The right wing was commanded by Qutba bin Qatadah and the left wing by Ubaya bin Malik. Zaid himself commanded the centre, and in the centre, too, was Khalid. The battlefield lay to the east of, and stretched up to about a mile from, the present village of Mutah. The ground here was even, but had a slight undulation, and the gentle slope of a low ridge rose behind the Muslims as they faced the Christian Arabs to the north. 5
1. Tirmidhi and Ahmad from Abu Hurayrah, Sahih Al-Jami’ Al-Saghir No. 6776.
2. A large and powerful tribe inhabiting Syria and Jordan.
3. Ibn Sad: p. 636.
4. Ibn Hisham: Vol. 2, p. 375.
5. A new mosque is being built by the Jordanian Government to mark the site of this battle.
Look at the part in red. It says the disbelievers wouldn’t be harmed if they accept Islam which means they would harmed if they don’t. Your prophet was a terrorist and any person with common sense can see that!. Now this article has been written by a muslim and he has mentioned Islamic sources but I guess according to you anything that exposes your third class prophet must be false and move to defame your prophet.
Islam seemhan wrote: speeches of anti-Islamic historians are not evidence. Those historians hate Islam so they would use all ways to make people hate it.
Neither are speeches of islamic historians 100 % accurate because they are bound to cover up lies of their prophet and save him embarrassment. Anyway your entire islamic history is full with murderous quotes and they have been documented by islamic historians themselves so really have no choice but to accept that muhamamad was thug.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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skynightblaze
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by skynightblaze »

pr126 wrote:skynightblaze wrote:
If you had known your religion well you wouldnt be a muslim.
Unless he is a moral degenerate and a psychopath. That's why dawa in prisons so successful.
True. Criminals are specially attracted to islam. Hitler was one of them who said that islam is compatible with his belief.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

Islam seemhan
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by Islam seemhan »

no mosque exist prior to islam.
•Masjid Al Aqsa was the second Masjid on earth

•It was built 40 years after the Ka'ba in Makkah

•Most scholars are of the opinion that Masjid Al Aqsa was first built by Prophet Adam.

•Ibrahim (as) rebuilt the Masjid Al Aqsa in Jerusalem as he and Ismail rebuilt the Ka'ba in Makkah.

•Prophet Daud (as) began the rebuilding of Masjid Al Aqsa.

•It was Prophet Sulayman (as) who finally completed the building of Masjid Al Aqsa.

•Masjid Al Aqsa built by Sulayman (as) was destroyed in 587 BC by Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon.

•The Jews call this same Masjid Al Aqsa built by Sulayman as their Temple.

•The Jews re-built their Temple on them same site in 167 BC but was destroyed in 70 AD and Jews banished from Jerusalem.

•The site of Masjid Al Aqsa remained barren and was used as a rubbish tip for nearly 600 years until the Great Khalifah Umar bin Khattab liberated Jerusalem in 637/8 AD.

•The Khalifah Umar bin Khattab began the foundation of Masjid Al Aqsa and a timber mosque was built.

•The Umayyad Khalifah, Abd' al Malik ibn Marwan in 691/2 [72/73 AH] began the construction of, Dome of the Rock - today this is the Golden Domed Mosque.
you're inventing a conspiracy toward Jews.
The barbaric shepherds Jews are the people of conspiracies.
Ezra son of Allah that is muslims falsification. jews can only take credit for their own BS. this is not one of them.
The discussion which the prophet Mohammed <PBUH> made with Christians and Jews showed that many Jews, at this time, worshipped Ezra.
I know that The Jews now worship Jehovah who eats, drinks wine, repents and has human traits.
I like this god.
Ok, like this man as you desire but do not attack Islam.
islam is based on these lies. duh. islam is a lie sucker!!!
Look first at your false Bible <the book of evils> then attack Islam.
You are jealous of Islam because it <Islam not Judaism> is the fastest-growing religion in the world.
Perish in your rage. :tongueout:
You have to prove to us that he was indeed sinless and was really a prophet before you use such arguments to draw conclusions that muhammad can never act contrary to laws of quran.
I dont see an answer to my point.You clubbed what I wrote here with the next point I made to make it look as if you have answered my point but I see you didnt bother to answer what I wrote.
I answered and mentioned tafsir of verse
Islam seemhan:
47:19
Know it! For sure, there is no god but Allah! Seek forgiveness for your sins as well as the sins of the believing men and the believing women. Allah is Aware of their movement on earth, and their places of residence!.

So Muhammad did sin and hence your author is a liar.
Tafsir Al Jalalyn:

[Know, then, that there is no god except God, that is to say, adhere, O Muhammad (s), to knowledge of this [fact] that will benefit you at the Resurrection, <and ask forgiveness for your sin >— this was said to him, despite his infallibility (‘isma), so that his community might emulate him [in this respect]. Indeed he did do this. The Prophet (s) said, ‘Verily I do ask God for forgiveness a hundred times every day’]
so the prophet Mohammed wants to educate his nation<muslims>
So now tafsir of Al Jalalyn becomes reliable when you need it but it isnt reliable when it exposes your fake prophet! This is called hypocrisy. Dont you see a problem with this? Muhammad bin lying quoted tafsir of Al - jalalyn and you dismissed it.
Because this thing whose name is bin lying mentioned Tafsir without the historical context of the verse.
Btw cant a simple question cross your mind? If muhammad didnt sin and was infallible why should he ask for forgiveness?
http://www.islamicsearchcenter.com/arch ... ommit-sin/
A token of humility and modesty:
One of the morals taught to man by Islam is also this: however hard and sincerely may man be trying to serve and worship his Lord and fighting and struggling in the cause of His Religion, he should never be involved in the misunderstanding that he has done and accomplished whatever he was required to do. Rather, on the contrary, he should have the feeling that he has not been able to do full justice to what was expected of him by his Lord and Master. Therefore, he should confess his errors constantly and pray to Allah saying ‘Lord, forgive me for whatever fault and error I may have committed in Your service.” , this is indeed the essence of Allah’s Command: ‘O Prophet. ask forgiveness for your fault ..” And in Hadith we find Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) praying exactly on the same lines, e.g.
اللَّهُمَّ اغْفِرْ لِي مَا قَدَّمْتُ وَمَا أَخَّرْتُ وَمَا أَسْرَرْتُ وَمَا أَعْلَنْتُ
“O Allah! Forgive me my sins that I did in the past or will do in the future, and also the sins I did in secret or in public.” (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 5919)
This does not mean that the Holy Prophet had actually committed an error willfully, but its correct meaning is that it did not even behoove the servant who was the greatest worshiper of his Lord that he should harbor even a tinge of the pride of accomplishment in his heart, but his true position also was that in spite of all his great and glorious services he should continue confessing his shortcomings before his Lord. It was under this state of the mind that the Holy Prophet often implored his Lord for forgiveness.
One also needs to understand that for a person with more responsibility and greater honor, the standards are also different. Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) received direct revelations from the Almighty so he was supposed to be the best and at times when he had actually done no wrong as we can see, he was still admonished because of the higher levels set for him.
Further, there is a Hadith that gives the answer of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) as to why did he pray to Allah so much and seek His Mercy:
عن الْمُغِيرَةَ يَقُولُ قَامَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ حَتَّى تَوَرَّمَتْ قَدَمَاهُ فَقِيلَ لَهُ غَفَرَ اللَّهُ لَكَ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِكَ وَمَا تَأَخَّرَ قَالَ أَفَلَا أَكُونُ عَبْدًا شَكُورًا
Narrated Al-Mughira: The Prophet used to offer night prayers till his feet became swollen. Somebody said, to him,” “Allah has forgiven you, your faults of the past and those to follow.” On that, he said, “Shouldn’t I be a thankful slave of Allah)?” (Bukhari, Hadith 4459)
A teaching for the followers:
Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) used to ask Allah for forgiveness as a token of his modesty and also to teach his companions and followers to do the same.
قَالَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَقُولُ وَاللَّهِ إِنِّي لَأَسْتَغْفِرُ اللَّهَ وَأَتُوبُ إِلَيْهِ فِي الْيَوْمِ أَكْثَرَ مِنْ سَبْعِينَ مَرَّةً
Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying.” By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day.” (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 5832)
Another narration makes it absolutely clear that he prayed to Allah this way as a token of modesty and more importantly to teach his followers:
يُحَدِّثُ ابْنَ عُمَرَ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَقُولُ يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ تُوبُوا إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ فَإِنِّي أَتُوبُ إِلَيْهِ فِي الْيَوْمِ مِائَةَ مَرَّةٍ
Ibn Umar narrated: I heard Allah’s Messenger saying, “O people ask Allah for forgiveness verily I ask Him for forgiveness hundred times a day.” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 17173)
The very words of the Hadith above prove that he did and said this to inspire his followers to repent to Allah often.

Another interesting point we need to consider here is that Quran 48:2 quoted above which says all the past and future sins of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) are forgiven was revelaed in 6th year after Hijrah while Abu Huraira, who is the narrator of the hadith saying that Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) repented 70 times a day, accepted Islam and came to the Holy Prophet in the 7th year after Hijrah. This proves Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) prayed even after Allah that verse was revealed. This is enough to prove that it was only out of modesty and to teach the followers.

you can claim that muhammad didnt drink wine. You and I both have to prove our case . I shall prove it to you that indeed muhamamd was a fake prophet and he violated quran. I have done that below
Mere claims arent evidences.
No, the native Arabic dictionaries and the context of Hadith are evidences.
I thought muhammad was a prophet of GOd and not ordinary man who would follow the same evil practices that a common man would follow. What is the difference between him and ordinary men if he did the same things as people during those times did ? Neither you nor muhammad understood that when you make tall claims like being a prophet of GOd for entire mankind then you are expected to bring reforms by abolishing the evil things and be a forerunner and not follow the same practices .How can be an example for entire mankind(especially us) in such a case?
It would be theft if the prophet Mohammed took the infidels' properties, which they brought with them in the war, without reasons as the infidels did with Muslims but taking the properties which the defeated army brought with them was never considered theft at their times.
Wine is a liquid that causes intoxication and if a particular liquid doesnt cause intoxication then it isnt wine at all and hence its incorrect to say that its wine
We believe in miracles. Allah has the ability to do any thing he wants so changing the wine of the afterlife to nonintoxication is not a difficult thing.
SO either Allah made a mistake here or you need to accept that your book is stupid to the core.
You are stupid because you understand nothing. You just repeat after your priests like a parrot.
Btw I am not trusting the author because he is a christian but because he/she has quoted reliable arabic dictionaries.
The dictionaries which you mentioned are not native Arabic ones.
I made a mistake once . Neither were you correct when you claimed that Nabeez doesnt mean wine. Nabeez can mean wine.
Wiki islam also said this...


Spoiler! :

Hadiths which you put proves that the prophet did never drink wine.
Thats why your quran is in error. The statement that wine has more disadvantages than advantages is not completely true. If you have control then wine has more advantages than disadvantages but ofcourse you wont understand such a simple thing.
I ask you this question:
Do you want me to tell you about the numbers of people who died of drinking wine all over the world according to medical statistics?
You are pathetic fool. Having sex with a 9 year old kid is a sin . Dude get this thing in your head .Perfect men or sineless men cant be aroused by 9 year old kids. A 9 year old cant consent to sex so its rape as well paedophilia but I guess you would go on to say that its not a rape and 9 year old kids are mature to consent.
Oh, I really feel pity for your stupidity. The prophet Mohammed never did that.
Mention Hadith and I will explain it.
So you would defend muhammad if he had sex with a 9 year old kid? So essentially would you be def ending a criminal?? Having sex with a 9 year old kid is a crime.Btw if he lived today you wouldnt be able to welcome him because he would be in a jail for having sex with a 9 year old kid
Again, Mention Hadith and I will explain it.
So according you that Muhammad could perform miracles only if God allowed him but not otherwise .I suppose you want to tell me that quran doesnt say muhammad cant perform any miracle but rather it says that he can only by grace of Allah.So lets see one more verse from your fake quran so that your argument is put to rest for forever.

17:59
And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).


Quran claims here that Allah never sent any signs with muhammad because the men of former generations treated them as false. So there you are exposed! YOur own quran says that muhamamd never performed any miracles so thank you for proving that quran is a lie.

You ignored the context of the verse and why it was revealed.
Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "The idolators said: `O Muhammad, you claim that before you there were Prophets, among whom was one to whom the wind was subjugated, and another who could bring the dead back to life. If you want us to believe in you, ask your Lord to turn As-Safa' into gold for us.' Allah conveyed to him by inspiration (Wahy): `I have heard what they have said. If you wish, I will do what they say, but if they do not believe after that, the punishment will come down upon them, because after the sign has been sent, there is no room for speculation. Or if you wish, I will be patient with your people and give them more time.' He said:

(O Lord, give them more time.)'' This was also narrated by Qatadah, Ibn Jurayj and others. Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "The people of Makkah asked the Prophet to turn As-Safa' into gold for them, and to remove the mountains (from around Makkah) so that they could cultivate the land. It was said to him (by Allah): `If you wish, I will be patient and give them more time, or if you wish, I will do what they are asking, but if they then disbelieve, they will be destroyed as the nations before them were destroyed.' He said,

(No, be patient and give them more time.) Then Allah revealed:

(And nothing stops Us from sending the Ayat but that the people of old denied them. ) An-Nasa'i also reported this from the Hadith of Jarir. Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn `Abbas said: The Quraysh said to the Prophet , "Ask your Lord to turn As-Safa' into gold and we will believe in you.'' He said,

(Will you really do that) They said, "Yes.'' So he asked his Lord, and Jibril came to him and said: "Your Lord conveys His Salam to you and says, `If you wish, I will turn As-Safa' into gold for them, then whoever of them disbelieves after that, will be punished with a torment the like of which has never be seen in creation; or if you wish, I will open the gates of repentance and mercy for them.'''



As you can see, the pagans were asking for a mighty miracle, that the prophet Muhammad turn a mountain into gold, and that if he did so they would believe in him, Allah accepts this, however so there is a major condition, if the pagans still disbelieve after this then they would be given a very severe punishment that has not been done before, so therefore the prophet declined to perform the miracle in fear that the pagans would still not believe in him or his message which would mean their doom and destruction and the prophet did not want that hence he did not perform the miracle and hence the verse was revealed
What was the "plight" from which islam saved?? How do you know they were happy?
They were happy as we also feel happiness because we all embrace the best religion.
If you read the biography of muhammad it shows muhammad as the worst creature to have y born on earth. You havent backed up what you said .
So you read and know nothing about the prophet.
Who told you that one has to read biography before reading a tafsir? There is no such rule so stop bullsh!ting . Your lies arent going to work here.
This is the truth which you want to deny.
We quote the tafsirs and quotes from islamic scriptures. Muhhammad bin lying quoted tafsirs from AL- Jalalyn which clearly establishes the fact that your prophet was a hardcore criminal.
Neither you nor bin lying mentioned the historical context of the verses.
Rejecting Islam is not a problem but the main problem is breaking the treaties and combining with infidels and fighting Islam.
These are hollow claims unless you can back them with proofs.
The evidences are obvious.
Battles showed the combinations against Muslims.
Hadiths and Holy Quran show breaking treaties by infidels.
Muhammad did drink wine. You obviously didnt read the complete article of wiki islam.
The prophet Mohammed never did that.
Your prophet was the first muslim terrorist
Liar. The prophet Mohammed suffered from pains and conspiracies of the barbaric infidels and people of book.
There is a hadith where you filthy prophet admitted himself being victorious through terror.
Be honest and mention Hadith in its full context:

Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: The Prophet said,
“I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month’s journey.2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.

3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.


4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).


5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to a ALL mankind.”
Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331:

If you muslims had kept your religion to yourself none of us would have bothered you. You can worship whatever you want until you don't cause problems for others.
We will spread Islam, by good preach, all over the world
The followers of Islam increase day after day especially in the west. :prop:
Islam will, one day, dominate the world. Allah has promised us.

Perish in your rage. :P
Who designs the designer?? If universe and other things cant come to existence on their own and require a creator then how can a complex entity like Allah come into existence on its own ?? If you say that Allah always existed then why cant anyone claim that universe always existed ? Remember we dont know what happened before big bang .
Allah is great god. Why we always say that he is god.
Because he creates but never is created.
More ever you ask me as to which God one will pray. Why cant anyone worship all the Gods one believes in???
You will find the answer from the holy Quran:

[22. If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! But glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!]

91. No son did Allah beget, nor is there any god along with Him: (if there were many gods), behold, each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have lorded it over others! Glory to Allah. (He is free) from the (sort of) things they attribute to Him!

Who has created the heavens and the earth, and Who sends you down rain from the sky? Yea, with it We cause to grow well-planted orchards full of beauty of delight: it is not in your power to cause the growth of the trees in them. (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Nay, they are a people who swerve from justice.

61. Or, Who has made the earth firm to live in; made rivers in its midst; set thereon mountains immovable; and made a separating bar between the two bodies of flowing water? (can there be another) god besides Allah. Nay, most of them know not.

62. Or, Who listens to the (soul) distressed when it calls on Him, and Who relieves its suffering, and makes you (mankind) inheritors of the earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Little it is that ye heed!

63. Or, Who guides you through the depths of darkness on land and sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His Mercy? (Can there be another) god besides Allah.- High is Allah above what they associate with Him!

64. Or, Who originates creation, then repeats it, and who gives you sustenance from heaven and earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Say, "Bring forth your argument, if ye are telling the truth!"

65. Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment).

Lets get this straight that your prophet didnt have good intentions . He wanted to rob Caesar and Khosrau 1 year before the battle started between muslims and persians so one can clearly see his filthy intentions.
you didnt answer the point that I made . Muhammad had intentions to loot the romans a long back in 627 AD. How do you explain that??

why muhammad promised the wealth of romans and khosrau

Firstly, the prophet never began the policy of aggression.
Secondly, Hadiths which you put before never show that the prophet had intention or plan to make Persia or any other kingdom Muslim.

Why do we call or name the noble man Mohammed ''prophet''?

One of the reasons is that he had prophesied and foretold actions and events which really fulfilled after that.

He prophesied that Muslims would make Egypt <Misr> and Persia <Iran> Muslim countries.
All his prophecies really fulfilled so in Hadiths which you put before, the prophet made some prophecies.


Btw Where is the proof that king of persia was tyrant???

Clean-shaven but with large moustaches, the two officers from Yemen came to Prophet Mohammad (saw) in Madinah. Abadhaweih said to him: "Khosrow Parviz, the king of kings, has written to Badhan, the governor of Yemen, commanding him to send us to take you to him. If you comply, Badhan will write to the king of kings interceding on your behalf. This will spare you a great deal of trouble. If you reject his order, you know how powerful he is. He is sure to destroy you and your people as well as your country."
Prophet Mohammad (saw) did not like their appearance. He (saw) asked them who ordered them to shave their beards and their reply was: "Our Lord", meaning Khosrow Parviz. Prophet Mohammad (saw) said: "But my Lord has commanded me to wear a beard and to trim my moustache." He also asked them to wait till the following day when he was to meet them again. In the meantime, Prophet Mohammad (saw) received information through the angel Gabriel (Jabra'il) that Allah (SWT) had caused Khosrow Parviz to be killed by Shirweih, his own son, giving him the exact time of night and the date when Khosrow Parviz was killed in Persia.
Prophet Mohammad (saw) called in the Persian messengers and told them of the killing of their King. They said to him: "Do you realize what you are saying? Your arrest has been ordered for something much more trivial than this. Do you still wish us to write this down and inform governor Badhan of what you have just said?"
Prophet Mohammad (saw) replied: "Yes. Tell him also on my behalf that my religion and my kingdom will replace that of Khosrow Parviz and will sweep all before it. Tell him also that if he accepts Islam, I will give him what he has now under his authority and will make him a ruler in the area he now governs." Prophet Mohammad (saw) also gave Kharkharah a sack of gold and silver that was sent to him as a present by another king.
The two envoys left and went back to Yemen where they told Badhan of what Prophet Mohammad (saw) had said. He told them: "This is not the sort of thing a king would say. To my mind, the man is a prophet, as he claims. If he is, what he has just told you will come to pass. If it is true that Khosrow Parviz has been killed, the man is a prophet and a messenger. If not, we will make up our mind about what to do with him."
Presently Badhan received a message from Shirweih informing him that he had killed his father, Khosrow Parviz after he had adopted despotic measures against the Persian nobility. He also commanded him to ask his commanders to swear allegiance to him as the new King. He further asked him not to disturb Prophet Mohammad (saw) until he had received further instructions.
Badhan then realized that Muhammad was truly God's Messenger. He called Abadhaweih in and questioned him further about Prophet Mohammad (saw). The latter told him that Prophet Mohammad (saw) did not keep any guard to protect him from his people or from anyone else. "Nevertheless, I have never spoken to a man who has inspired me with awe as much as he does." Badhan was then certain that Muhammad was truly the Messenger of God and he communicated his conviction to his advisers and counselors. He declared that he wished to become a Muslim and they all joined him in accepting the message of the Prophet Mohammad (saw).This was the beginning of the spread of Islam in Yemen. The majority of its population, Christians and Magians alike, started to accept Islam. They conveyed this to Prophet Mohammad (saw) and he sent them some of his companions to teach them the principles of Islam and instruct them in how to lead an Islamic life.


Its not a modest statement when muhammad said he is a slave of Allah
He is very modest.
The rubbish you quoted has been answered below..

http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/heraclius.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Where is this answer?
Then why didn't they spread their religion through healings like the first apostles did after Jesus? If they felt happy, they would having willingly converted and no sword would be needed like people did at the beginning of Christianity before it became politicized.
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34

Jesus says, “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine.


Families will be torn apart because of Jesus. “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21
It is Muhammad who later invented a lie and tried to hijack Judaism and Christianity.
It is the barbaric Jews falsified the truth to be suitable for their desires.The distorted Gospel itself proves that you are liars.
Why? Because you need it to be that way?? It's a rather pointless statement if you can't explain why that is true. Just making a claim means nothing. Here, watch this. "Your wrong". See?? I can make claims out of nowhere as well. It's easy. But it's a meaningless statement unless I explain WHY you should be thought to be wrong. Can you understand that?? Has anybody ever explained that to you?? I don't think anybody has or else it would be common sense to you.


Not I who ignore the truth but you when you do not complete your stories.
2) Read the hadiths?? Do you mean like this hadith where Muhammad tells us the sun orbits the earth everyday and then makes a prophecy about the sun reversing it's course causing it to rise in the west and then tells us that this is the meaning behind 38:36?? Didn't he mean to say that the spin of the earth will reverse rather than the sun's course reversing?? A reversal of the sun's course will not cause it to rise in the west, but this just so happens to be what people of the 7th century mistakenly thought before they realized that the earth spins. How could someone make an impossible prophecy that clearly misunderstands the nature of the earth and sun and what creates day and night and then say God told them this?
Many prophecies of the prophet Mohamed fulfilled so we never suspect his prophecies.

Who can imagine one day that there is fire under the sea?
The prophet Mohammed told us in 7th century that there is fire under the sea and sea under the fire but the modern science of 19th and 20th century discovered that there is really volcanoes under the seas and oceans.
Why only some tafsirs and how do we decide which ones to read and which ones we shouldn't read?? But then again, i already know the answer to that question.
According to many Muslim scholars, we accept only tafsirs which cope with the tolerant soul of Islam.
There are tafsirs which do not cope with Islam so we do not accept it.
that's you. If you're not reading the Quran and repeating it like a mindless parrot, then please tell me what you thought when Allah said "I swear by the stars that run their course and hide themselves". How does the course that the stars travel cause them to be hidden from us?? It's the earth's spin that causes this. Yet another blatant error that you simply float over as though you were hypnotized. Think about it. It's right in front of your face, waving at you, winking at you, waiting to be noticed, but you're hypnotized and simply cannot see it or simply refuse to see it.
this verse show and the commentators also say that by these verses it is meant those planets, which can be seen (mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn), because they are in motion, they appear sometimes and sometimes they disappear. In the Holy Quran reference of those stars is given with an oath; and people’s attention is drawn towards their special and distinct behavior and their movement and rotation and it calls attention towards the greatness of the Creator of the universe. This means, the type of those returning stars which moving and disappears.

We should also know that experts of astronomy have given those stars the name of “amaze stars” because, their movements are not on a straight line, and it seems that, they travel for certain period of time and then slightly they return, and again they continue their travel. The reason of this behavior is discussed at length in the books of astronomy and it is possible that the indication of above-mentioned verses (which has mentioned about those stars in the style which are moving and coming back) may be towards these stars’ capricious way (no doubt the way of this capricious travel has some logic which is beyond our comprehension at present).

Anyhow, these are the same wandering stars, whose special behavior makes them distinct
Many Jews, in the time of the prophet Mohammed, worshipped Ezra not one god. I know that The Jews now worship Jehovah who eats, drinks wine, repents and has human traits.
Who told you this?? What is your basis?
Your posts show to me that you do not read this debate from the beginning.
I wrote the discussion which happened between the people of Book <Jews and Christians> and the prophet Mohammed.
The Jews defended Ezra.

The Christian Delegation from Najran
While the war of words was raging between Muhammad and the Jews in full intensity, a delegation from the Christians of Najran consisting of sixty riders arrived in Medina. Among them were some of the nobles, learned men, and religious leaders of the tribe whom the emperors of Byzantium had been protecting, encouraging, financing, and assisting in the building of churches. .......... The three scriptural religions thus confronted one another in Medina. The delegation entered with the Prophet into public debate and these were soon joined by the Jews, thus resulting in a tripartite dialogue between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The Jews were obstinately denying the prophethood of Jesus as well as of Muhammad, as we have seen earlier, and pretending that Ezra was the son of God. The Christians were defending trinitarianism and the divinity of Jesus. Muhammad was calling men to recognize the unity of God and the spiritual unity of mankind...........Muhammad criticized both Jews and Christians in very strong terms for their compromise of the monotheistic faith that God is one, for tampering with the words of God in their scriptures, and for interpreting them in ways violating the understanding of the prophets whose prophethood they themselves acknowledged
[ excerpts from Historical Development of the Holy Quran]


It was to this message that Muhammad summoned Jews and Christians alike. Muslim relationships with the former were already under the governance of the Covenant of Madinah. Those of the latter depended upon the Christians' response to Muhammad's invitation. Though they did not join Islam at this time, the Christians resolved neither to oppose Muhammad nor the missionary activity of his followers. Appreciating the perfect justice of Muhammad's new order, they asked him to appoint for them a Muslim to act as judge in their own disputes at home. Muhammad sent with them Abu `Ubaydah ibn al Jarrah, who was vested with the proper judicial authority.
I think it's a miracle that you ignore the verse where Allah swears by the stars that run their course and hide themselves. As far as the scientist go, this is a tremendous, money making scam for them. Muslims are so desperate for educated scientists to say good things about the Quran, that all a scientist has to do is to say something remotely good, and his work will sell like hotcakes all over the ignorant, backwards, uneducated Arab world and he will make a ton of money. People such as yourself are their ignorant stooges and deep down inside they probably laugh at how gullible you are. But a desperate need for something to be true will make someone tremendously gullible.
Too many non-Muslim scientists embrace Islam because of the scientific miracle.
I think you are not too civilized to know that.
Have you ever read the hadith that said that when Ayesha was menstruating, the prophet used to rest his head on her lap and read the Quran??
Of course but there is a problem about that.
Islam never considers women, who are menstruating, filthy being like your distorted Bible.
Every single one of those has been debunked and that's the subject of a whole other topic by itself. You're being lied to, big time. For example, because man walks on the moon, that means the moon has been split open?? Huh?? Look at the wishful thinking and stretching and distorting that is going on. Can you see it?? I guess not.
Soon I will talk about each miracle and show your lies.
He asked you where there is a mention of beheading Muhammad, then you call him stupid, and then you never provide that mentioning. So he is right because you couldn't back up your claim and provide evidence.
Again read the whole discussion. You will find the evidence.
IBN Kathir, Al Jalalayn and IBN Abbas are among the MOST respected scholars, and they are the MOST respected scholars according to MOST MUSLIMS. So what in God's name could you possibly be talking about?? Geez, even when someone accurately quotes the most respected scholars, Muslims true to lie about it and cover it up. do you know why we should trust these scholars?? Because they are among the first and original Islamic scholars and they wrote honestly about the Quran because back then, nobody had any need to "whitewash" Islam and alter it to fit modern morality. It is the scholars of today that are lying and they have many motives to do so.
My filthy friends are the original and most respected scholars of Islam. Didn't you know that?? Do you even know what tafsir is?? It is scholarly commentary by Islamic scholars about the meaning of verses in the Quran. How could you call Islamic scholars my filthy friends?
Again,The filthy friends whom I mean are never the respectful Muslim scholars but I mean those who neither completed the story of the king of Persia <ringmaster> nor the story of the Romans <skynightblaze>.
Because you still haven't sufficiently answered the problems it raises. What makes you think that you did??
No, I answered before but you do not read the whole discussion.
Well what did you think about the agreement with the Asham Christians where the Asham Christians outline all sorts of humiliations that they had to agree to in order to prevent Muslims from "doing what they will" to them? And they even said, "we agree to these things against ourselves". So it's i9n clear language that many humiliations were laid out to them and if they didn't humiliate themselves, Muslims could do whatever they wish with them and they are no longer protected. Protected from what?? From Muslims killing them like they did with the pagans. That was an historically documented agreement and you merely ignore it and live in denial.
What do you think about the treaty which the Christians did first with Muslims then betrayed it?
What do you think about the combination of Romans <Christians> and infidels in order to fight against Muslims?
They had no reason to reinterpret and alter the meaning of the Quran because it wasn't so offensive to people's sensibilities of that time, but it IS offensive to the sensibilities of people in modern times. So who has more motive to alter the actual meaning of the Quran, the original scholars or modern scholars?? Think about it. You must have at least a few drops of common sense in you. Maybe not.
We never alter or change the meaning of the holy Quran.
They gave historical context. For example, the agreement of dhimmitude between the Asham Christians and the conquering Muslims. What could you possibly be talking about??
But they did not complete the whole story. They did not say that the treaty was betrayed by the Christians.
That's what the Meccans did to Muhammad when he lived in Mecca and didn't have an army. Was that what the Christians of a far away land of Syria did to Muhammad?? Come on, quit with the nonsense excuses.
Yes.
Mock me?? Listen dumb ass, the Quran itself says Jesus was never killed and instead was raised up, so therefore he is still alive and Islam talks about him returning. So you don't even know your own religion. Stupid ignoramus. You deserve every drop of disrespect that you are receiving from me. What a stupid "Mobot" you are. Have you ever even thought an original thought of your own in your entire life?? Are you honestly this hypnotized??
I know my religion well but you neither know Islam nor know Christianity.

Allah said in the holy Quran:

[4:156-159 "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them." ]

3:55 "Behold! Allah said: O Jesus! I will take thee And raise thee to Myself And clear thee (of the falsehoods) Of those who blaspheme; I will make those Who follow thee superior To those who reject faith, To the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, And I will judge Between you of the matters wherein ye dispute."

The end of the life of Jesus on earth is as much involved in mystery as his birth, and indeed the greater part of his private life, except the three main years of his ministry. It is not profitable to discuss the many doubts and conjectures among the early Christians sects and among Muslims theologians. The Orthodox-Christian Churches make it a cardinal point of their doctrine that his life was taken on the Cross, that he died and was buried, that on the third day he rose in the body with his wounds intact, and walked about and conversed, and ate with his disciples, and was afterwards taken up bodily to heaven. This is necessary for the theological doctrine of blood sacrifice and vicarious atonement for sins, which is rejected by Islam. But some of the early Christian sects did not believe that Christ was killed on the cross. The Basilidans believed that someone else was substituted for him. The Docetate held that Christ never had a real physical or natural body, but only an apparent or phantom body, and that his crucifixion was only apparent, not real. The Marcionite Gospel (about A.C. 138) denied that Jesus was born, and merely said that he appeared in human form. The Gospel of St. Barnabas supported the theory of substitution on the Cross. The Quranic teaching is that Christ was not crucified nor killed by the Jews, not with standing certain apparent circumstances which produced that illusion in the minds of some of his enemies; that disputations, doubts, and conjectures on such matters are vain; and that he was taken up to Allah Almighty.
That's talking human sons and human fathers, noit the relationship between the Heavenly father and the son. And Jesus very often and clearly distinguishes between the father on earth and the heavenly father.
Really, Do you think that I am too stupid and foolish like your people to believe these illogical things?

How do you say ''In The name Of The Son, Father, and The Holy Ghost'' then say ''One God''?

The mathematic says:

3x1=3

But the mathematic of Christians says:

3x1=1

You consider 3 gods one god.

I advise Christians and Jews to read first their distorted Bible and to recognize their false religions then talk about the best religion <Islam>.

If we compare Islam to both Christianity and Judaism, your religions will be destroyed.

If we compare the holy Quran to Bible, Bible will be internationally banned and thrown in garbage.

I thank Allah, my god, for making me Muslim.
.
Oh, it's YOUR religion?? You own Islam?? Think about how stupid that statement was. Never mind, you can't. Are you your religion?? Does your religion go away when you die?? Think about it, blockhead. Why are Muslims so handicapped when it comes to reasoning??


It is my religion Islam which you want to distort but you fail.
You could try to show me an infinite amount of falsehoods that you claim are in the Bible, but what does that do to make Islam true?? Has it ever occurred to you that this does nothing to prove that Islam is true?? Of course it hasn't, because that is sound reasoning, and as a Muslim, you can't reason properly. So let's give an illustration of exactly what you are trying to do. Someone comes by and pokes a hole in your boat. So, what's your solution to fix the problem?? Do you fix the hole in your boat by plugging it up?? No, because for some stupid reason, you think that the most effective way to fix the hole in your boat is to try and poke a hole in someone else's boat. When we give a clear illustration or example like this, look at how utterly stupid your behavior looks. And yet, the IS precisely what you are attempting. See how stupid it is?? Who taught you how to reason?? Ask for your money back.


Bible is the book of :

1-Contradictions.
2-Insulting women.
3-Violence and terrorism.
4-insulting the prophets.
5-Raping.

so i should mock at you and your people. :tongueout:
Khalid wrote:Submit to Islam and be safe. Or agree to the payment of the Jizya, and you and your people will be under our protection, else you will have only yourself to blame for the consequences, for I bring the men who desire death as ardently as you desire life."
Again we see the same message.

So I don’t think Gibbon must be lying because We see the same message everywhere in islamic scriptures.All the tafsir scholars agree with the message of Khalid and the verse which supports Khalid is 9:29 so in the light of the proof its not unreasonable to believe what Gibbon quoted about the words of Khalid . It isnt that such statements arent found in entire islamic history anywhere and Gibbon merely pulled this thing out of his arse.
you did not say that:
1-the king Hormuz was arrogant and evil man so the Arab in Iraq had detested him.
2-Abu-Bakr the caliph enjoined Khalid not to force any one in Iraq to embrace Islam.
I will post some quotes from biographies of muhamamad ,You earlier made a claim that to understand islam one must read the biography. Lets see what the biographies of Muhammad have to offer about the character of your prophet..


Ishaq: 676
"'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"

Here Muhammad asked to kill the woman because she criticized him. How do you explain this?? I guess you would even claim here that the woman was a threat to muhammads life.

;Tabari VIII:179 Ishaq:550

"Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his.... His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa'id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her."

Ishaq:597
"When the Apostle returned to Medina after his raid on Ta'if, word spread that he had killed some of the men who had satirized and insulted him. The poets who were left spread in all directions."


Al-Tabari and Ibn-Ishaq and other sources are extremely doubtful and unauthenticated. Most Muslim scholars today firmly and strongly believe in this. , as most Muslim Scholars agree, we Muslims can't take these Hadiths as absolute Truth or accurate information. Much of these volumes are either corrupt or taken out of context. Again, this is according to the Muslims scholars. This is why these volumes are considered "unauthenticated".

The falsehoods of Ibn Ishaq's many sayings:

Ibn Isḥaq has been accused of being a Qadari and having Shi'i tendencies,[2] as many have questioned his reliability.[8]
In the hadith studies, which early Muslim scholars examined more seriously than biographical narratives,[7] ibn Isḥaq is generally considered as a mudallis, meaning one who did not name his teacher, claiming instead to narrate directly from his teacher's teacher.[9] Because of this and other accusations, many scholars including Muhammad al-Bukhari hardly ever used his narrations.[8] According to al-Khaṭīb al-Baghdādī, all scholars of ahadith except one no longer rely on any of ibn Isḥaq's narrations.[10] Al-Dhahabī also concluded that any narration solely transmitted through ibn Isḥaq should probably be considered munkar
<forbidden>. [11] Others, like Ahmad ibn Hanbal, rejected his narrations on all matters related to fiqh.[2]
Concerning his sīra, the most notable and widely discussed criticism was that of his contemporary, Malik ibn Anas, who leveled many accusations against ibn Isḥaq.[2][12] Malik rejected the stories of Muhammad and the Jews of Medina on ground that they were taken solely based on accounts by sons of Jewish converts.[13] These same stories have also been denounced as "odd tales" later by ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.[13] Malik and others also thought that ibn Isḥaq relied too heavily on the Isra'iliyat. Furthermore, ibn Sallam al-Jumahi and ibn al-Nadim censured ibn Isḥaq for knowingly including forged poems in his biography,[2] and for attributing poems to persons not known to have written a single line of poetry

The falsehoods of Al-Tabari's many sayings:

Al-Tabari who included Ibn IssHaaq's book in his multi-volume Tarikh Al-Tabari has the following disclaimer in the introduction to the book:
"...if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us."

Read more:

Inaccurate, Twisted & Fabricated Stories about Prophet Mohammad:

1. The alleged murder of Abu Afak
2. The alleged torture of Kinana Ibn Rabi Ibn Al-Huqaiq
3. The killing of Sallam Ibn Abul-Huqaiq
4. The killing of Sarah, a freed slave
5. The killing of the Ten Meccans
6. The killing of al-Huwayrith
7. The Killing of an anonymous One-Eyed Shepherd
8. The Killing of Abdullah bin Khatal and His Two Singing Girls
9. The alleged killing of Asma bint Marwan
10. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) said: "Will you listen to me O Quraish? By him who holds my life in His hand, I bring you slaughter." (Ibn IssHaaq, p. 130)

http://www.discoveringislam.org/ibn_isshaaq_stories.htm

I don't deny that Al-Tabri and Ibn Ishac were respectful but many of their speeches are not true and are not reliable.
Here is the complete story and that too by a muslim who has used muslim sources to make his claims..

Spoiler! :
What an excellent slave of Allah: Khalid ibn al-Walid, one of the swords of Allah, unleashed against the unbelievers!"
[Prophet Muhammad (SAWS)]1
Three months after his arrival at Madinah, Khalid got his chance to show what he could do as a soldier and a commander for the faith which he had just embraced. The Prophet had sent an envoy to the Ghassan 2 Chieftain of Busra, with a letter inviting him to join Islam. While passing through Mutah this envoy was intercepted and killed by a local Ghassan chieftain by the name of Shurahbil bin Amr. This was a heinous crime among the Arabs, for diplomatic envoys held traditional immunity from attack no matter how hostile a power they represented. The news of this outrage inflamed Madinah.
An expedition was immediately prepared to take punitive action against the Ghassan, and the Prophet appointed Zaid bin Harithah as the commander of the force. If he were killed, the command was to be taken over by Jafar bin Abi Talib. If he were killed, the command would devolve upon Abdullah bin Rawahah. Having appointed these officers in the chain of command, the Prophet said, "If all three of these are killed, let the men select a commander from among themselves." 3
The expeditionary force consisted of 3,000 men, one of whom was Khalid, serving as a soldier in the ranks. The mission the Prophet gave to Zaid was to seek out and kill the person responsible for the murder of the Muslim envoy, and to offer Islam to the people of Mutah. If they accepted Islam, they were not to be harmed. At the time this force was sent out the Muslims had no knowledge of the enemy strength that they would have to deal with.
Spirits were high as the expeditionary force began its march from Madinah. When the force arrived at Ma'an, reports were received for the first time that Heraclius, the Eastern Roman Emperor, was in Jordan with "100,000 Romans" and had been joined by "100,000 Christian Arabs"-mainly from the Ghassan. The Muslims remained in Ma'an for two days debating their next move. There was a certain amount of hesitation and nervousness. Some suggested that the Prophet be informed of the large strength of the enemy so that he could give them fresh orders on what course of action they should adopt; but Abdullah bin Rawahah (the third?in?command) did not agree with this suggestion, as it would entail unnecessary delay and would give the impression that the Muslims were afraid. He recited a few verses and made a stirring speech to raise the spirits of the men. He concluded by saying, "Men fight not with numbers or weapons but with faith. By going into battle we have a choice of two glorious alternatives: victory and martyrdom." 4 This speech dispelled all doubt from the minds of the Muslims, and they promptly resumed their march towards Syria.
The Muslims reached a place near the frontier of Balqa-a district in the east of what is now Jordan-where they made contact with a large force of Christian Arabs. Not finding this place suitable for battle, the Muslim commander withdrew his force to Mutah. The Christian Arabs followed the Muslims, and the two forces again met at Mutah. Both sides now decided to fight. It was the second week of September 29 (the third week of Jamadi-ul-Awwal, 8 Hijri).
Zaid deployed his force in the normal pattern of a centre and two wings. The right wing was commanded by Qutba bin Qatadah and the left wing by Ubaya bin Malik. Zaid himself commanded the centre, and in the centre, too, was Khalid. The battlefield lay to the east of, and stretched up to about a mile from, the present village of Mutah. The ground here was even, but had a slight undulation, and the gentle slope of a low ridge rose behind the Muslims as they faced the Christian Arabs to the north. 5
1. Tirmidhi and Ahmad from Abu Hurayrah, Sahih Al-Jami’ Al-Saghir No. 6776.
2. A large and powerful tribe inhabiting Syria and Jordan.
3. Ibn Sad: p. 636.
4. Ibn Hisham: Vol. 2, p. 375.
5. A new mosque is being built by the Jordanian Government to mark the site of this battle.


Look at the part in red. It says the disbelievers wouldn’t be harmed if they accept Islam which means they would harmed if they don’t. Your prophet was a terrorist and any person with common sense can see that!. Now this article has been written by a muslim and he has mentioned Islamic sources but I guess according to you anything that exposes your third class prophet must be false and move to defame your prophet.
Reading the red line only without reading the whole story means nothing.

The Muslim army went to revenge <the people of Mutah killed the emissaries of the prophet Mohammed> so those ,who killed the emissaries of the prophet Mohammed, either were killed or embraced Islam.

1-If they did not accept Islam; they would be killed because they first killed the emissaries of the prophet Mohammed.

2-If they accepted Islam, They would be exempted from revenge or they would not be harmed.

In the 2 cases, the prophet was right.
The prophet just wanted to invite them to Islam peacefully by sending emissaries to them but they murdered the emissaries.

Congratulations! Your evidences from Ibn-Hisham prove the aggression of infidels on Islam and Muslims.
Neither are speeches of islamic historians 100 % accurate because they are bound to cover up lies of their prophet and save him embarrassment.
lies.
Anyway your entire islamic history is full with murderous quotes and they have been documented by islamic historians themselves so really have no choice but to accept that muhamamad was thug.
Any way your history also is full with terrorism and murder.
Hitler was one of them who said that islam is compatible with his belief.
Allah damns Hitler and his belief.

Rovan
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by Rovan »

Bible is the book of :

1-Contradictions.
2-Insulting women.
3-Violence and terrorism.
4-insulting the prophets.
5-Raping.

so i should mock at you and your people. :tongueout:
i don't read bible so I will say nothing about it to defend.

But your kind refuses if people mocks Islam for the very same reason to the point of killing them for being critical?

I think your kind of people is selfish

aceaxe2
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by aceaxe2 »

Islam seemhan is good when make conclusion from OT bible , but can't see the same thing from koran . And make excuse for Koran and didn't believe when Christian make similiar excuse for OT bible . His religion really can make his brain stop working properly :lol:
If someone believe commit crime in the name of god is divine act , then he not far from becoming a terrorist

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ygalg
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by ygalg »

Islam seemhan replies sums to mumble jumble.

Masjid Al Aqsa is the temple :lol:
Image
you better look at the model, that is not an islamic style structure.

far mosque is muhammad's own concept in relation to his dream. where he claimed he reached the far mosque. but that was indeed a dream. there was no mosque he could have reach in Jerusalem.

you basing on the bible now? hinting how worthless koran is without it.

I cannot debate you anymore as you making up stuff instead dealing with facts.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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ygalg
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by ygalg »

aceaxe2 wrote:Islam seemhan is good when make conclusion from OT bible , but can't see the same thing from koran . And make excuse for Koran and didn't believe when Christian make similiar excuse for OT bible . His religion really can make his brain stop working properly :lol:
these scholars of his, entirely counted on the bible. also they do not spare misinterpretations as usual. but do claim koran contains all the answers. go figure.

here's a link http://www.stanford.edu/~jamila/Aqsa.html
they have the impudence to called it history. :roflmao:

Beteyel as the scholars of his suggest, properly pronounced Bet-EL is one of three places in Judea mountains. the other two are Hebron and Jerusalem. the idiots scholars of his confused bet-el for a mosque.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

Islam seemhan
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by Islam seemhan »

i don't read bible so I will say nothing about it to defend.

But your kind refuses if people mocks Islam for the very same reason to the point of killing them for being critical?
If you read the whole discussion from the beginning to the end, you will see that the interpretations , the biography of the prophet Mohamed and the full context of the verses of the holy Quran show that Islam is innocent of your filthy speeches.

Please, just read the the whole discussion.
I think your kind of people is selfish


You and your people want to attack, distort and insult Islam and the prophet Mohammed <Peace Be Upon Him> without understanding and when we defend our religion,you call us SELFISH.

You are unjust and unfair

What is the name of your friends who insult Islam without understanding?
Filthy or stupid or terrorist or bad or good or intelligent or what.
Islam seemhan is good when make conclusion from OT bible , but can't see the same thing from koran . And make excuse for Koran and didn't believe when Christian make similiar excuse for OT bible .
You also should read the whole debate to know that I answered many and many questions and comments about Islam but no one until now reply to my comments about the violent verses of the distorted Bible using an excuse that this forum is not about Bible. :lol:
far mosque is muhammad's own concept in relation to his dream. where he claimed he reached the far mosque. but that was indeed a dream. there was no mosque he could have reach in Jerusalem.


Al Aqsa is a place of worship not place of drinking Al-cohol as your ancestors Barbaric Jews did.
hinting how worthless koran is without it
The holy Quran never needs to your Bible.
I cannot debate you anymore as you making up stuff instead dealing with facts.
Of course,You can not debate me because you bring illusions which your people invent to kill innocent people in Palestine.
The Jews are known ,from the beginning, for killing prophets so they easily can kill any body who is not Jew.
these scholars of his, entirely counted on the bible. also they do not spare misinterpretations as usual. but do claim koran contains all the answers. go figure.

here's a link http://www.stanford.edu/~jamila/Aqsa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
they have the impudence to called it history.
Read the conclusion:

First - all the children of Israel left Jerusalem in the time of Jacob by their own will.
Second - they were unwilling to support Moses (PBUH) and return to the holy land for the sake of Allah (God).
Third - King Je-hoia-chin's tunnel has no religious significance to the Jews, it is merely a historical site. The Israelis continued excavation of the tunnel, may result in damage to Masjid Al-Aqsa.
Fourth - the Israelites abandoned Beteyel in 614 A.D., while under Persean rule.
Fifth - they took Palestine by force and aggression in 1948, and subsequently tortured many Palestinians in the process.
Finally - the Jews do not appreciate all the just treatment that they received from the Muslims throughout history, and as we see today, the Israelis have little concern for the Muslim people, their places of worship, and their property.

Islam seemhan
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by Islam seemhan »

http://www.evilbible.com/

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)



Kill Followers of Other Religions.


1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)


Kill Old Men and Young Women



"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

More Rape and Baby Killing


Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Kill everything that "breathes" from humans and animals!

Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

Suckling infants were executed by the tens of thousands:

1 Samuel 15:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

A praise for dashing little children against rocks as a form of revenge:

Psalm 137:8-9
8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.
9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!

http://www.answering-christianity.com/p ... rderer.htm

Prophet Muhammad is a Murderer for KILLING the enemies? WHAT ABOUT THE BIBLE'S PROPHETS' MURDERS that were blessed by GOD?

Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their live bodies on trees until they DIE.


this the Bible. :lol:
I advice Christians and Jews to read first their bible :tongueout: before attacking the holy quran.


The Messenger of Allaah Mohammed (peace be upon him) said [to muslims in battles]:

“Do not kill any old person, any child, or any woman.” [Abu Dawud]

“Do not kill the monks in monasteries,” or “Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship.” [Musnad Ahmad]


Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, or a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well. (Sunan Abu Dawud , Book 14, Number 2608)



Bin Lying,

You would expect that major events such as the crucifixion and the resurrection of Christ, that make up the entire case for Christianity, to be at least prophesied in the Bible's Old Testament clearly, without any ambiguity, and without any deliberate mistranslations and lies. But the Truth and the sad reality for the believers in the crucifixion, who are too also desperate to prove trinity even though the word itself, "trinity", doesn't even exist in the entire Bible, is that these major events, the crucifixion and the resurrection, were never mentioned in the entire Old Testament.

The following Biblical verses that further refute the crucifixion and resurrection lies:

Being lifted and saved:

Luke 4:10-12
10 For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you.
11 And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
12 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”

Matthew 4:5-10
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple,
6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
7 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”
8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
10 “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say, ‘You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’”

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ygalg
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by ygalg »

notice folks that Islam seemhan qouting from the link which I've able to bring here. the scholars of this link using the bible. using jewish history. using logical fallacy selective picking. misinterpreting histrocial accounts.

I've explain the flaw in their stance over mosque (allege to be the temple according to these scholars)

here a repeat of what I've wrote above and Islam seemhan missed:
Beteyel as the scholars of his suggest, properly pronounced Bet-EL is one of three places in Judea mountains. the other two are Hebron and Jerusalem. the idiots scholars of his confused bet-el for a mosque.
and it's not even Jerusalem. the rest of their interpretations sums to blah blah blah.

Islam seemhan returns quoting from that link without considering the credibility of their interpretation. replies with ad hominem and tu quoque. he cannot be taken seriously afterwards.

claims I've brought illusions.
was it I, who claim adam, a jewish fictitious figure builts the al aqsa mosque? no, it was not I. was it I, who claim abraham a jewish fictitious figure rebuilts the al aqsa mosque? no, it was not I. according to him david also rebuilds it and solomon finalize it. but the model as portraited is not a mosque.

then he claims that it is a place of worship. what to us to undertsand from this assertion? there were several constructions according to him and his source. so it cannot be imaginary compound. something for him to think of.

so when muhmmad claimed he was in the far mosque, he speaks of structure not a marked area. there are two problems. one, half of his people left. cause he claimed he left for a journey, but saw him sleeping. second, (what mosque he could have visited?) there was no such structure in Jerusalem. except for a christian byzantine place of worship. a church. and he did not even mentioned them??? when Omar caliph succeeded to conquer Jerusalem. he described a wreckage on the spot stood the temple. this was not mentioned by muhammad.

"The barbaric shepherds Jews are the people of conspiracies". Islam seemhan says. he must be jewish then. :roflmao:
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

Islam seemhan
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by Islam seemhan »

notice folks that Islam seemhan qouting from the link which I've able to bring here. the scholars of this link using the bible. using jewish history. using logical fallacy selective picking. misinterpreting histrocial accounts.
Did your Bible said that The Israelites rejected this order from Allah (God), and preferred to live in the desert of Sinai, rather than to sacrifice themselves for the sake of Allah (God)?
was it I, who claim adam, a jewish fictitious figure builts the al aqsa mosque? no, it was not I. was it I, who claim abraham a jewish fictitious figure rebuilts the al aqsa mosque? no, it was not I. according to him david also rebuilds it and solomon finalize it. but the model as portraited is not a mosque.
All the prophets which you mentioned were never ever Jewish.

The Christian missionaries tell us that when the Muslims conquered Jerusalem they found the Temple Mount filled with garbage:

"When the Arabs conquered Jerusalem they found the Temple Mount abandoned and filled with refuse. ... `Umar ordered it cleaned and performed a prayer there. The sanctuary [the Dome of the Rock] ... was built by Caliph `Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan around 72/691."

Two question now arise, who abandoned the Temple Mount and why was it filled it with rubbish? The facts become clearer when we actually fill in the blanks "..." in the Christian missionaries' quotation:

When the Arabs conquered Jerusalem they found the Temple Mount abandoned and filled with refuse. The abandonment of the Temple site was in accordance with Jesus' prophecy that not a stone would be left standing on another. `Umar ordered it cleaned and performed a prayer there.[20]

So, it was the Christians who abandoned the Temple some 600 years before the Muslims entered it. But who used the Holy place a rubbish dump?

Ever since the Persian occupation, when the Jews had resumed worship on the platform, the Christians had used the place as the city rubbish dump. When `Umar reached the old ruined gates of the Temple, says the Muslim historian Mujir al-Din, he was horrified to see the filth, "which was then all about the holy sanctuary, had settled on the steps of the gates so that it even came out into the streets in which the gate opened, and it had accumulated so greatly as almost to reach up the ceiling of the gateway." The only way to get up to the platform was to crawl on hands and knees. Sophronius went first and the Muslims struggled up behind. When they arrived at the top, the Muslims must have gazed appalled at the vast and desolate expanse of Herod's platform, still covered with piles of fallen masonry and garbage.[21]

It was the Christians! The Christian attitude towards Jerusalem can be understood by reading the New Testament. Paul's Epistles and the Book of Revelation may have defined a theological framework for the attitude towards Jerusalem, but the two synoptic Gospels of Luke (19:42-44) and Matthew did more than that. They also provided guidelines for political or quaispolitical actions after Christianity became the officially established religion of the Roman Empire. The Gospels relate how Jesus rebuked his disciples when they admired the Temple's beauty from the Mount of Olives: "His disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the Temple. But he answered them, 'You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left any stone upon another.'" (Matthew 24:1-2).

Art historians such as Nuseibah and Grabar have reached a similar conclusion concerning the Christian attitude towards the Temple Mount:

More importantly, not only was the Haram left barren, but that very barrenness was given the Christian significance of fulfilling Christ's prophecy, "There will not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down" (Mark 13:2). The ruins of the Jewish Temple and whatever else had been there were to remains as signs of the triumph of Christianity.[22]

Athanasius thought that the incorporation of Jerusalem into Christian Empire provides the proof of new religion's truth. According to Jesus' prophecy, the Holy City as well as Temple have been taken from them forever.

The Christian Jerusalem, before of the advent of Islam, had undergone subtle developments. The Christians had appropriated a body of Jewish traditions concerning the Temple Mount (some of them mentioned in the New Testament) and were now applied to the Church of Holy Sepulchre and Church of Resurrection. The process of "consecration" of Jerusalem and making it into a Christian city met with little opposition; the pagans had no opposition, while the Jews had not been permitted to reside in Jerusalem since the time of Hadrian (the Bar Kochba revolt). And as expected the Temple Mount was left in the state of pile of fallen masonry and rubbish.

Where was your ancestors Jews when Christians threw the rubbish in their place of worship, as they claimed?


It was Islam that restored the sanctity of Temple Mount, and made it a place of prostration and prayer.


"The barbaric shepherds Jews are the people of conspiracies". Islam seemhan says. he must be jewish then.
I have no honor to be like those barbaric shepherds :tongueout:

OkiDoki
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by OkiDoki »

Listen people! I have this for Ali Sina:

Sir, you may know a lot about Islam religion to debate and deny everything with arguments.

Now what about YOU prove that we are here accidently, and therefore we are the result of a long evolution: that's my challenge as a muslim.
Moreover, now that you are a ex-muslim, it's your duty to do so if you want to know the truth.

If you can't, you will not need anymore answers to your chanllenge, and to pay 50 000 $ to become again a muslim: it's what we call the proof by contradiction.

If you do prove that, unfortunately I have no money in return, but if I could, it would not be 50 000 $, but much more :)

Regards

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ygalg
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by ygalg »

Islam seemhan wrote: All the prophets which you mentioned were never ever Jewish.
I did not wrote that adam is a jew nor I wrote it about abraham.
here what I wrote: a jewish fictitious figure
IOW figments of the Jews.

Jews created these characters in the bible (Adam, Isaac...etc) and the stoires which muslims borrowed economically and wrote them in koran. leaving out the juicy stuff to the extent a lost of sense. muslims unable to interpret without peeping in the bible.
except reciting like a parakeet.

it is like arguing with Grimm brothers, that Little Red Riding Hood is actually green and the wolf is a a fox. :wacko:
Did your Bible said that The Israelites rejected this order from Allah (God), and preferred to live in the desert of Sinai, rather than to sacrifice themselves for the sake of Allah (God)?
I'm not religious. Islam seemhan confusing Koran's biblical revisionism with the genuine jewish writings of the bible.

no mosque found there by Omar. but rubbish. your own source refutes the allege journey of muhammad. time for you to examine your belief.

the temple was not restored. but false hopes.
I have no honor to be like those barbaric shepherds :tongueout:
too late for you Islam seemhan.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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ygalg
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by ygalg »

Islam seemhan opens a thread with a question "why do you hate and refuse islam?"
perhaps he can share with us what he found so far?
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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ygalg
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Re: why do you hate and refuse islam?

Post by ygalg »

OkiDoki wrote:Listen people! I have this for Ali Sina:

Sir, you may know a lot about Islam religion to debate and deny everything with arguments.

Now what about YOU prove that we are here accidently, and therefore we are the result of a long evolution: that's my challenge as a muslim.
Moreover, now that you are a ex-muslim, it's your duty to do so if you want to know the truth.

If you can't, you will not need anymore answers to your chanllenge, and to pay 50 000 $ to become again a muslim: it's what we call the proof by contradiction.

If you do prove that, unfortunately I have no money in return, but if I could, it would not be 50 000 $, but much more :)

Regards
wrong thread topic. you should start with your own thread in the right section.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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