How was life like when you were a muslim?

[debunker]

CM, I really don't think you would have any problems writing your thesis... you've got tons of energy! It really is amazing how you can handle a job + school + being a regular member in this forum, all at the same time!!!

[crazymonkie_]

Well, the writing's never really been a problem for me. It's having a point (actually making a thesis) that's the tricky bit. Though it does help to be a part-time madman. ;-)

[sword_of_truth]

Blah- I feel crap now about this: Welcome back Debunker! I feel crap about it because it's taken me so long to say it... ah well. As you well know, I do wish you all the best. I've got at least a year before my thesis comes up, but I'm planning for it already because I know how it can just creep up on you if you're not careful.

I guess I have to jump on the bandwagon, now. Welcome back, Debunker. I missed you.

I don't know if I'm starting on my thesis or not. Could turn into a thesis, I guess.

So, unfortunately, it seems I will be doing what Debunker did and bowing out for a few months or so. So, I suppose it will be goodbye very soon, as my plan is to ban myself from here starting on Tuesday until the end of the semester, to help increase my productivity. I have fallen too far behind, even though I'm putting the forum on low priority.

[debunker]

thanks for the welcome SOT...

yes, a complete ban from even viewing this forum is necessary... no compromises until you've met important deadlines.

After I got the OK from the doctoral committee to defend within 3 months, I couldn't help myself take a peek before going back to a self-imposed ban until I'm totally done.

Best of Luck!

[YellowRubberDucky]

@ abdullahinislam

Well, we shall see but I am very happy as a Muslim, far more so than when I was Christian or even when I was "driven by animal instincts and selfish desire" - and I have not been brainwashed, I have studied the documents and supporting historical accounts and come to my own conclusions about the religion - I am not being beaten on by a Mullah or Imaam.

Although not muslim I came across this on another board:-

"New converts are first taught the “beauties of islam”. They are told that islam is a religion, a religion of peace, of equality and worship of a single God. They are led to believe that islam is accepting of other religions, especially Judaism and Christianity that are monotheistic, and only disagrees with the believers of these religions in that they have corrupted their faith. They are then led to believe that islam is the only religion that has not been contaminated. Because of that it is the only religion accepted by God. Those who do not believe in islam reject the truth (deny God) and are doomed sinners. Eventually they are old that Isa and Musa of the quran are not the same as Jesus and Moses of the Bible. New converts gradually come to think of people of other faiths as the enemies of allah and will start to hate them actively. Then they are taught that only muslims are brothers to each other and that everyone else is out there trying to “get them”.

Are those the stages you have got to?

Something else for you to read http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of ... ords.Islam

Peace

[abdullahinislam]

@ abdullah

but I am very happy as a Muslim, far more so than when I was Christian or even when I was "driven by animal instincts and selfish desire" - and I have not been brainwashed

See? that's an example of how a brainwashed Muslim thinks: "Ooh, I'm so superior to everyone else because I'm a Muslim!"... I really wish you lived in a Muslim city to know who the real animals are... and I'm not talking about poor Muslim cities, even the wealthiest Muslims are behaving like animals towads each other. Envy, greed, extreme rudeness, treachery, deceit, injustice, hypocricy and a whole lot of lying! In fact, lying is the basic common denominator among average Muslims.

But I'm at loss, really. Didn't you notice any of that among your Muslim "brothers" in the UK? or are they still treating you like royalty since you converted? The thing is I can't believe they can keep up the charade for too long and sooner or later they'll drop the mask and reveal their true rotten faces. Then again, perhaps you're too blind to see their truth and are enjoying the special attention you're getting from them?... well, it won't last... as soon as you start acting rationally and question their baloney, you'll fall out of favor. I bet you wear their disgusting Muslim clothing.. you know, the funny hat or towel on the head, Afghanistani clothes and the rest of this sh!t. So tell me, were you spineless enough to change your name?! Those fuckers are not happy for you because they don't give a damn about you. To those idiots, your converting only helps inflate their own tiny self-esteem. To them, your becoming subservient enough so as to change the name your parents gave you and wear their stupid clothes helps mitigate their deep feelings of inferiority. The poor lads think that by subjugating your likes they are actually proving the inferiority of the West! I can imagine them thinking: "Look at this morally bankrupt Westerner! He came to us begging for guidance and enlightenment!"

Frankly, I read only a few of your posts, but I can clearly see that you have been brainwashed. Sooner or later you'll get tired of the tyranny of those dwarfs trying to ride your back. To them you're only a tool to help ease the pain of their insignificance.

I am not brainwashed nor did I say Islam was the superior religion, go read my post again, though frankly, just you read what you want to read.

You have some issues

Take care.

[abdullahinislam]

@ abdullahinislam

Well, we shall see but I am very happy as a Muslim, far more so than when I was Christian or even when I was "driven by animal instincts and selfish desire" - and I have not been brainwashed, I have studied the documents and supporting historical accounts and come to my own conclusions about the religion - I am not being beaten on by a Mullah or Imaam.

Although not muslim I came across this on another board:-

"New converts are first taught the “beauties of islam”. They are told that islam is a religion, a religion of peace, of equality and worship of a single God. They are led to believe that islam is accepting of other religions, especially Judaism and Christianity that are monotheistic, and only disagrees with the believers of these religions in that they have corrupted their faith. They are then led to believe that islam is the only religion that has not been contaminated. Because of that it is the only religion accepted by God. Those who do not believe in islam reject the truth (deny God) and are doomed sinners. Eventually they are old that Isa and Musa of the quran are not the same as Jesus and Moses of the Bible. New converts gradually come to think of people of other faiths as the enemies of allah and will start to hate them actively. Then they are taught that only muslims are brothers to each other and that everyone else is out there trying to “get them”.

Are those the stages you have got to?

Something else for you to read http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of ... ords.Islam

Peace

How do you know what "they" are told about Islam - from some second or third hand source?

[crazymonkie_]

How about you reply to debunker, abdullah? HE'S ethnically Arab, Arabic is his first language, and he knows his sources.

[abdullahinislam]

How about you reply to debunker, abdullah? HE'S ethnically Arab, Arabic is his first language, and he knows his sources.

reply to what ?

[crazymonkie_]

This (there seems to be chronic problem with Muslims and the "back" button on threads):

@ abdullah

but I am very happy as a Muslim, far more so than when I was Christian or even when I was "driven by animal instincts and selfish desire" - and I have not been brainwashed

See? that's an example of how a brainwashed Muslim thinks: "Ooh, I'm so superior to everyone else because I'm a Muslim!"... I really wish you lived in a Muslim city to know who the real animals are... and I'm not talking about poor Muslim cities, even the wealthiest Muslims are behaving like animals towads each other. Envy, greed, extreme rudeness, treachery, deceit, injustice, hypocricy and a whole lot of lying! In fact, lying is the basic common denominator among average Muslims.

But I'm at loss, really. Didn't you notice any of that among your Muslim "brothers" in the UK? or are they still treating you like royalty since you converted? The thing is I can't believe they can keep up the charade for too long and sooner or later they'll drop the mask and reveal their true rotten faces. Then again, perhaps you're too blind to see their truth and are enjoying the special attention you're getting from them?... well, it won't last... as soon as you start acting rationally and question their baloney, you'll fall out of favor. I bet you wear their disgusting Muslim clothing.. you know, the funny hat or towel on the head, Afghanistani clothes and the rest of this sh!t. So tell me, were you spineless enough to change your name?! Those fuckers are not happy for you because they don't give a damn about you. To those idiots, your converting only helps inflate their own tiny self-esteem. To them, your becoming subservient enough so as to change the name your parents gave you and wear their stupid clothes helps mitigate their deep feelings of inferiority. The poor lads think that by subjugating your likes they are actually proving the inferiority of the West! I can imagine them thinking: "Look at this morally bankrupt Westerner! He came to us begging for guidance and enlightenment!"

Frankly, I read only a few of your posts, but I can clearly see that you have been brainwashed. Sooner or later you'll get tired of the tyranny of those dwarfs trying to ride your back. To them you're only a tool to help ease the pain of their insignificance.

[abdullahinislam]

it serves little point as far as I can tell, the only thing worth saying is that I never stated that Islam was superior.

[crazymonkie_]

True. Islam itself makes the claim. Over and over. You did mention that it's the best system you've taken part in so far, implying that (AFAYK) Islam *is* the best religion. That's a bit of a red herring, though:

His point was that you're in the "honeymoon phase," and that you're pretty much blinded by the serotonin shooting off in your system. The serotonin bit was my addition, but I think it's pretty accurate. Reply to the post specifically, if you would. I only brought it up, I can't speak for the man myself.

[abdullahinislam]

True. Islam itself makes the claim. Over and over. You did mention that it's the best system you've taken part in so far, implying that (AFAYK) Islam *is* the best religion. That's a bit of a red herring, though:

His point was that you're in the "honeymoon phase," and that you're pretty much blinded by the serotonin shooting off in your system. The serotonin bit was my addition, but I think it's pretty accurate. Reply to the post specifically, if you would. I only brought it up, I can't speak for the man myself.

I didn't choose to be a Muslim, being Muslim was the last thing I ever thought I would be, but yes it is the best for me now.

Maybe I am I the honeymoon phase and I intend not to get divorced. I think that is the point, the blinding flashes don't come in Islam in the manner in which i think you are describing here. That would be more in tune with mystical and occult based practice. There is none of that per say in Islam, It is a slow, gradual process that takes time to develop - and that assumes you choose to do it on your own free choice and not because of your family, society, etc.

[crazymonkie_]

But it happened to you anyway. As you said, you may be in the "honeymoon" phase. Which means you had to get there somehow. How the human brain works, there's not really any other way besides those quick flashes, the switches popping off and on in the brain, that lead you to radical changes in your life.

[abdullahinislam]

But it happened to you anyway. As you said, you may be in the "honeymoon" phase. Which means you had to get there somehow. How the human brain works, there's not really any other way besides those quick flashes, the switches popping off and on in the brain, that lead you to radical changes in your life.

Right, and the stimulation that you choose to use is important in the type of elightenment or insight, understanding, what ever.

[crazymonkie_]

And so what? Are you making the case that you'd be an adherent of another religion if the "stimulation" was different? That sort of makes your case for Islam being the one true way weaker.

[iffo]

debunker are you muslim or atheist?

[debunker]

yes iffo. a muslim.

[emma67]

I said I used to love listening them until I came to know the real truth abt Islam from this site.

You leared Islams truth from this site????? :/ That is like learning to count by reading a cook book.

Please do tell us where we are supposed to learn about Islam from other than the Qu'ran, Hadiths and Sunnah? Since most of us here are ex-Muslims, we can logically assume that we know at least as much as you if not more about Islam. More because we dared to question and we dared to look at other scriptures and we have all conducted our own research.
A Cook book? Are we supposed to take your word for it or do you have proof to back up what you are saying? We believe in reasoning and logic, we don't take opinions as facts. This is ABC to reasoning skills and demonstrating how you reached your opinion.

I have 2 interesting Molokhia recipes for your attention. The first one is called: 'Why I'm not a Muslim' by Ibn Warraq which you can read online at the following address: http://www.scribd.com/doc/10315799/Why- ... Ibn-Warraq
if you are not in a Muslim country which blocks anything which doesn't agree with Islam, and the second one is of course The Life of Mohamad by Ali Sina which is mostly unavailable in Muslim countries of course. I say Mostly since I don't know all Muslim countries. Those cook books provide references which you can double-check as well as reasoning skills. They are not opinions thrown into the air nor are they statements without grounds.
Also do take your time to read the 'cooking' articles on this site and to gather information from non Muslim and therefore ‘cookery’ I assume, websites. A belief can only stand if you are capable of answering the questions of those who don't see eye to eye with you and if you can put your faith into perspective.

Since I came to islam, 3 years ago, my life has been hard with trying to change my bad habbits and opinions, also I have experienced so much hate and mocking against me simply because I am a white Muslim, my work life has been difficult, my social life also has been difficult - but it has also been full of blessings and happyness which outweighs the bad, and on the whole, I am much more content and pleased with my existance.

Any belief system we are willing to adopt has a tendency to make us feel better. The same can be said for Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Satanism, Agnosticism, Atheism, Scientology and so forth and which ever order one prefers. But this no way implies that any of these beliefs are true. Sincerity and feeling better have nothing to do with TRUTH.

I was a social drinker and a social drug user when I was a teen and young man - I loved to party and be with girls too - I guess removing these bad habbits was one of the most difficult things. I had to change my glasses and see life from a new perspective, one that avoided indulging in carnal pleasure and following my own desires ( the babel tower comes to mind) as and when it pleased me, living more like an animal with animal desires and instiincts - to being a more structured, socially aware, compassionate and thoughtful person.

As far as drinking, partying and drugs are concerned, this could be said for most religions too. A good Christian or a good Jew isn't going to get drunk, party all night or use drugs. Yet I know Muslims, Christians and Jews who do. The same also applies to anyone with any sense in them, be there Atheists or whatever. If you are a Muslim because you believe Islam is right since alcohol is prohibited, you could also follow the advice of an Atheist psychiatrist and/or any advice from any other religion or from anyone with basic values and health awareness.

I'm far more concerned about the next part. It's really very difficult to believe that you have read and understood the Qu'ran when you mention 'avoiding carnal pleasure and following your own desires' or that you have repudiated your 'animal desires and instincts'. This has a lot more to do with Christian beliefs than Islam. You are not in agreement with Mohamad on these points. Let's take a few basic examples from the Qu'ran which I'll paraphrase. This may incite you to find those passages for yourself in the Qu’ran:

1- Your wife has to have sex with you whenever you feel like it. Otherwise you are to sleep alone and if she doesn't return to you, you can beat her up. If she's at her oven cooking (as if only women cooked in the 21st century...) and you want to have sex, she has to agree. So much for mastering our animal instincts and treating others as equals and individuals as opposed to functions or subservient animals.

2- As to being compassionate and thoughtful, do you think Mohamad was when he had a few 1000 Jews beheaded, including all the kids who had grown pubic hairs because they didn’t want to convert to Islam? Or is it that we don't have the same definition of Compassion and Thoughtfulness? I should add Tolerance too?

3 - Could you explain why it takes 2 women as witnesses for only 1 man? Do you believe women are deficient in intelligence as Mohamad said and that Hellfire is mostly filled with women?

4 - Could you explain why Mohamad orders his followers to kill all the unbelievers wherever you find them? Is this Compassion?

5 - Could you explain why Mohamad had so many wives and why he had sex with a 9 year old girl he married when she was 6 years old and him 50+? Do you think it's OK to have sex with your 'slaves' too, as in anyone who works for you, could be a nanny, could be a young child, could be your son's wife. The Qu'ran says it's OK.

6- Could you explain why Mohamad got it wrong about embryology?

7- Could you tell us if Pharaoh died or was saved according to the Qu'ran because it says both?

8- Could you explain why the God of the Qu'ran got it wrong about the Christian Trinity including God the Father, God the Son and Mary in the Trinity?

9 - Could you explain why the Qu'ran states that it agrees with the previous books (yes, we can prove that they have not been changed btw in case you feel like resorting to this cheap move) when it contradicts them? Could you explain how the crucifixion is denied in the Qu'ran? Do you think Allah changed his mind and if so, could we consider changing one's mind to be a divine attribute? Do you think that Jesus was meant to appear to have died on the cross? If so do you think lying is a divine attribute?
If Allah is a liar and changes his mind, IT sounds terribly like a human being.

10- As far as people laughing at you because you are a white Muslim, I think more than laughing, they are probably very concerned about you. There's a sense of pride that White Muslims derive from being just that, a white person following Islam.
Being part of Islam makes you feel special, Muslims will tell you that others have been blinded, that there is this big Western Conspiracy against Islam, that YOU will go straight to heaven because you don't come from a Muslim background most likely and so you are EVEN BETTER than a Muslim and God loves you SO MUCH! You will be welcomed with open arms. I've been there and instead of laughing at you, I hope I can help you. Someone who has managed to stop drinking etc has willpower and strength and I hope you can use your willpower to select a peaceful belief system, whichever it maybe. The search is personal but you are not here for no reasons either. You are here most probably because you have a doubt. This is how I started on this site as a Muslim.
But will you dare to question the Qu'ran and see through it as I did? Do you have enough strength to do so? Or will you skip the passages which are so gross and deny basic human rights and prefer to remain blind? If you are a Westerner, I can only hope that your upbringing will allow you to question Islam and that you will decide to use your mind to do so.
You are right to have chosen to handle and tackle your drinking habits and to wish for more than living for sex, partying and the like. I know many Atheists, Agnostics and Christians who also feel this way while again I know some Muslims who drink, party and take drugs.

I'm not questioning your need to face yourself and rise above your animal instincts, I'm questioning the gross intolerant and violent belief system you have selected in order to cure yourself from your drinking and sexual habits. You must have been fed a diluted version of Islam as I was when I became a Muslim. They may have mentioned Keith Moore or Maurice Bucaille to you (they made a lot of money for telling lies. Keith Moore retracted his statement and is quite ashamed of himself, as to Bucaille, I'll refer you to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8A9DEeglXI
It speaks for itself.
But unfortunately Islam will never allow you to rise beyond your animal instincts if you apply it. The diluted version takes mostly the parts of the Qu'ran stolen from the Bible and some pagan traditions. But if you are to be a Muslim, you can't be picky and take what you like while disregarding the rest or you cannot call yourself a truthful Muslim. And the rest is about hatred and violence. It's in many ways replacing one set of ills (drinking and the like) with another terrible one.
I wish you a lot of open-mindedness and the honesty to probe into the Qu'ran to genuinely see it for what it is. I also strongly advise you to read Zakaria Boutros on the Qu'ran. http://www.fatherzakaria.net/
He only uses the Qu'ran to dismantle Islam. He had to leave his Muslim country because many Muslims decided to convert to Christianity or to simply leave Islam and we all know, a Muslim who wishes to change his religion or abandon religion faces the death penalty. After being put in prison a few times, he had to leave his country. This is Islamic law, this is the extent of Islamic compassion and thoughtfulness you mentioned…

[emma67]

Although not muslim I came across this on another board:-

"New converts are first taught the “beauties of islam”. They are told that islam is a religion, a religion of peace, of equality and worship of a single God. They are led to believe that islam is accepting of other religions, especially Judaism and Christianity that are monotheistic, and only disagrees with the believers of these religions in that they have corrupted their faith. They are then led to believe that islam is the only religion that has not been contaminated. Because of that it is the only religion accepted by God. Those who do not believe in islam reject the truth (deny God) and are doomed sinners. Eventually they are old that Isa and Musa of the quran are not the same as Jesus and Moses of the Bible. New converts gradually come to think of people of other faiths as the enemies of allah and will start to hate them actively. Then they are taught that only muslims are brothers to each other and that everyone else is out there trying to “get them”.

Are those the stages you have got to?

Something else for you to read http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of ... ords.Islam

Peace[/quote]

How do you know what "they" are told about Islam - from some second or third hand source?[/quote]

Actually the account mentioned above is fairly accurate and I'm talking from 1st sources since this happened to me.
I would have said the same as you, Abdullahinislam, that I hadn't been brainwashed and the like because I was reading a lot of Islamic literature at the time including history and thought myself well above being capable of being brainwashed. No, no, it couldn't be brainwashing, no, no, not ME! Those Muslims were right, it was just that Westerners hated Islam because it held the truth and they didn't want to admit it. All Westerners who weren't Muslims had become lost people in my eyes. The US was the most evil country in the world (sure it's not all white but who is and at least there are human rights and democracies in the West) and the people on this forum were disgusting Atheists or stupid Christians etc etc. Because yes, how could Islam be wrong when it tells you not to drink alcohol, right or left? Alcoholic Anonymous must work for Allah too. Muslims will tell you how awful the West is, how they all drink and abuse freedom, etc, etc, especially in the UK where many people rush into pubs every evening coz there isn't much else to do there if you want to socialise. You get to the bar and grab a pint of beer. Surely there's more to life than this, we will all agree but yes, you have been brainwashed and I trust that you have to ability to undo this by yourself, by using your mind. Take care.