The real Jesus - if he ever existed - might have been completely different from what we know.
gupsfu wrote:When someone uses the "taken out of context" argument without explaining what it's really supposed to mean, you know he's lying.
Mohammed did not only leave Quran to us but built a nation which immediately continued his conquests after his death. Another factor is that there are remains from that time.
its just blowing my mind what influence one single person can have on humanity.
It appears a little bit absurd to me when people judge a person from 7th century A.D. on present day morals. However one has to admit that on the other hand you cant just apply everything a person from 7th century A.D. did on todays life without thinking. This is just as absurd.
eSHaHeEN wrote:First of all what you said about Mohammed is a one-sided view just like what a lot of people these days utter in the media about Islam appears one-sided to me. Sometimes I get the impression that these people think Islam and Muslims are all about killing and robbing, when Islam is of course also about helping poor people and orphans i.e.. Of course Mohamed did a lot of things which would be considered inappropriate in our times. However one has to consider the time and culture he lived in. And judging by the time and culture he lived in I cannot say he was an exceptionally immoral arab leader. Indeed in some areas he was more progressive than others. It appears a little bit absurd to me when people judge a person from 7th century A.D. on present day morals. However one has to admit that on the other hand you cant just apply everything a person from 7th century A.D. did on todays life without thinking. This is just as absurd.
eSHaHeEN wrote:Hey Frankie,
I think its still possible to have some kind of attachment to Islam and Mohamed if you start to recognize that Mohamed was primarily a leader of his time and that the Quran was a book of its time and that you cant just apply everything said in there on today. However its possible to say for example he was progressive towards women within his time, lets be progressive towards women today - I mean to see his deeds in the historical context of his time, to stop glorification of his personality, to begin to see him as what Quran actually says: a human being like you and me and to start seeing everything with more distance and difference.
Part of that is i.e. that people agree that one cannot just marry a 6year old girl today or that hudud punishments are obsolete even though it might have been normal in ancient times.
In my eyes hes more a historical personality - the leader of the Arabs and the founder of our current civilization than the holy prophet whose words were the direct commandment of god. A person from 7th century a.d.. But I believe that its more constructive to offer more religious people the approach above in order to move on in a constructive way with their religion and belief. Which is maybe the most realistic and constructive way how to reconcile past and present and to move on.
Ps: I just realized the answer above was over-the-top but I wrote it out of a really angry mood after seeing some videos on the Israeli attack early that morning. I apologize on my behalf for the harshness of the answer, but I dont want to be drawn into a boat of supporters of certain politcal agendas wether its Israeli or American agenda. This is none of my buisness.
Frankie wrote:To say Mohammed was "progressive towards women within his time" is not at all factual, even though this is put to Muslims to make them believe their prophet to be a good man.
eSHaHeEN wrote:Look hombre,
I dont want to get drawn into a discussion wether Islam is better or Christianity or Judaism. Wether Jesus was a Jew or Jesus was better than Mohamed or Mohamed was better than Jesus. Or...
you also impress me as an Iranian shi'ite, with ideology not far from those Mullahs in Tehran
rying to defend a man, who's so-called marriage to a 6 year old child
"your best friend is Jewish"
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