How was life like when you were a muslim?

[HollowScar]

yes dear HollowScar., yes.. "Be open minded" don't be a bigot., that is right advice., right suggestion to Muslims in the first case and non-Muslim who get raged due to actions of Muslims. But the problem is not with people but with faiths .. more importantly faith that uses brain washing its followers right from the baby years and uses for political activity. So the question is how to be open minded and how to open minds of close minded people?

Well, in Islam, it is easy to be open minded, as long as you choose to look at everything as a stranger rather than a follower. Of course, my country is the best, but it has many flaws. If I do not speak and learn about them, then what's stopping my county to be the next Dictatorship country? In Islam, we are lucky, because all we have to do is study it, and it becomes clear. As a non-arabic person, I would read the Qur'an, but to me it made sense. I have never read the Bukhari, or Sahih Muslim, so I was unaware. Mr. yeezevee, thank yuo and other members to wake me up.

I am glad you heard about her and I was under the impression that your culture is NOT THAT FAR from her culture But i don't think you have read any of her books., Off course Prophet Muhammad said that "Love your daughter" and he did love his daughter Fathima very much. Prophet of Islam was NOT THAT BAD GUY until his first wife Khadija died.. He was a Good man with good family background., The problem lies with the LAST 13 years of his life.

Yeah, he was a good man, but his actions have been psychotic, after claiming to be Prophet. Unfortunately, certain religions have similar flaws. For instance, Moses did kill a man, for gathering sticks in the Sabbath, just because God ordered him to do. Maybe, we are being critical on religions which were supposed to Barbaric, when there was no laws, but miracles.

Anyways Some of these statements are UNIVERSAL in human beings for that matter animal kingdom dear HollowScar

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

" Great men with power are almost always bad men."
(..exceptions are rare..)

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

Good stuff to remember in life.. So the idea behind such statements is, some how when people realize how a good person ha gone wayward and is using power self interests., there should be a way/some mechanism to replace the guy., one need not wait for Allah to take him/her away...

Yes, Mr. yeezevee. Power does corrupt. I recommend you to watch an anime called Death Note. You can watch all 37 episodes here, http://revolution-anime.net/index.php?/Death-Note-dub/ It is full of suspense, and even if you watch two or three episodes, you will be hooked. It is about a man who finds a notebook, where he could write the name, and the details about a person's death, and kill that person anonymously. He chooses to get rid of all the criminals, but becomes an anti-hero in the process.

Any ways So holidays are over.. what else is cooking?? GET BACK TO YOUR COLLEGE BOOKS/WORK ?? whatever..

My holidays are over on January 10th, as I have school the next day. I am in my fourth semester in Instrumentation (Industrial) Engineering Technology, so it will be a bit grueling. I am happy that now that I found the truth, I won't waste time on this religion, and just am waiting for the opportunity, to make my leave official.

with best wishes & happy new year.
yeezevee

You too, Mr. yeezevee. I have to sincerely thank you and other members for being there with me in my time of confusion. May you all have a prosperous and meaningful lives, filled with knowledge and love, and may you all have the ability to shun down Islam for all it's worth. Thank you.

[vermilion8]

I became an Atheist at the age of 15.

I was lucky in that my life wasn't miserable as some Muslims. However, the more I learned about God in Sunday schools, the more I came to realize that humans made God in their image. A vengeful, angry, narcissistic being that requires utter control over our life and then begs to be differed as a merciful and a beneficial being? Talk about butchered logic.

I did not agree with the food restrictions placed upon us and I did not agree with mindless rituals. Although my family who is more liberal than the rest was very lax, the idea of following a religion like this did not feel right.

Now that I am away from home, I indulge my self (with moderation) with alcholol and enjoy all types of food. I have discovered life outside the realms of Islam. I do not have to restrict myself from having fun unless it poses a danger to me-- and being able to use my own reasoning is empowering.

[Ram]

I became an Atheist at the age of 15.

I was lucky in that my life wasn't miserable as some Muslims. However, the more I learned about God in Sunday schools, the more I came to realize that humans made God in their image. A vengeful, angry, narcissistic being that requires utter control over our life and then begs to be differed as a merciful and a beneficial being? Talk about butchered logic.

I did not agree with the food restrictions placed upon us and I did not agree with mindless rituals. Although my family who is more liberal than the rest was very lax, the idea of following a religion like this did not feel right.

Now that I am away from home, I indulge my self (with moderation) with alcholol and enjoy all types of food. I have discovered life outside the realms of Islam. I do not have to restrict myself from having fun unless it poses a danger to me-- and being able to use my own reasoning is empowering.

Excellent reason to leave Islam. You should be able to enjoy the things you like without the feeling of guilt. Nothing wrong with drinking alcohol. Drinking alcohol is like driving a car, you have to be careful and know how to use it.

[Eliphaz]

My life was horrible. I live in the West, where there is little persecution for religious beliefs, but I persecuted myself anyway. When I missed one prayer, the guilt would make me miss many, and then weeks would go by where I hadn't prayed. To miss a prayer deliberately is to leave Islam, so as you can imagine it is quite easy to get into a viscious circle of guilt in Islam.

Every interaction with non-Muslims was tainted with the desire to redeem Islam in their eyes, to clarify the misconceptions the media had painted of Islam, rather than to try and interact with them like a normal human being. Evey friday prayer, some international postgrad student would stand in front of the congregation and spurt forth some idealistic story about giving dawah and try to encourage everyone to give dawah to their non-Muslim colleagues. They had no idea.

I even gave a talk about the Qur'an as part of a university assignment on a 'personal interest' (my degree was in engineering). I had no interest outside Islam. I was so convinced that God would be angry if I chose anything else so, wanting to please Allah, I did it on the Qur'an. What a joke. Afterwards I was overcome with fear that I had somehow misrepresented the Qur'an, that Allah would be angry with me for THAT, and not only that, but I had alienated my peers in the process. But at least I could redeem myself, maybe pray extra prayers, right?

And so, on and on, the guilt, the fear. Wash and repeat. Go to Jummah on friday, listen to another person who can barely speak English tell me how to live in the U.K., quoting some story of the sahabahs in 7th century arabia as if this had any relevance to my life.

Eid was the only time I was happy, and that was even just for a moment. "Don't waste Eid" the speaker at Jummah would say "don't forget Allah even this one day". So even Eid Allah could not bear us to not to think about him.

In short, life was terrible, and I thank the universe, fate, whatever for freeing me from the authority of Allah.

[Wootah]

My life was horrible. I live in the West, where there is little persecution for religious beliefs, but I persecuted myself anyway. When I missed one prayer, the guilt would make me miss many, and then weeks would go by where I hadn't prayed. To miss a prayer deliberately is to leave Islam, so as you can imagine it is quite easy to get into a viscious circle of guilt in Islam.

Every interaction with non-Muslims was tainted with the desire to redeem Islam in their eyes, to clarify the misconceptions the media had painted of Islam, rather than to try and interact with them like a normal human being. Evey friday prayer, some international postgrad student would stand in front of the congregation and spurt forth some idealistic story about giving dawah and try to encourage everyone to give dawah to their non-Muslim colleagues. They had no idea.

I even gave a talk about the Qur'an as part of a university assignment on a 'personal interest' (my degree was in engineering). I had no interest outside Islam. I was so convinced that God would be angry if I chose anything else so, wanting to please Allah, I did it on the Qur'an. What a joke. Afterwards I was overcome with fear that I had somehow misrepresented the Qur'an, that Allah would be angry with me for THAT, and not only that, but I had alienated my peers in the process. But at least I could redeem myself, maybe pray extra prayers, right?

And so, on and on, the guilt, the fear. Wash and repeat. Go to Jummah on friday, listen to another person who can barely speak English tell me how to live in the U.K., quoting some story of the sahabahs in 7th century arabia as if this had any relevance to my life.

Eid was the only time I was happy, and that was even just for a moment. "Don't waste Eid" the speaker at Jummah would say "don't forget Allah even this one day". So even Eid Allah could not bear us to not to think about him.

In short, life was terrible, and I thank the universe, fate, whatever for freeing me from the authority of Allah.

Thank you for sharing your story with us.

[loveguru]

There was NO life at all.

They think they live but actually they are just passing this "Beautiful" life and waiting to die so that they can get 70 virgins in haven. That is why they are so at ease in blowing them up as a suicide bomber.

I has NO life seriously. You are never at ease if you are a Muslim. What you need to do is Namaz, Pray, Keep suppressing your feelings, Keep brainwashing yourself so that your "Belief" doesn't fall. Keep asking for the forgiveness to Allah and so on..

When I came out (about 12 years back, when I was 20 years old) I experienced the life, I knew what I was missing.

Now my whole family is living with freedom.


Regards

[Eliphaz]

wow i see a lot of ex muslims who just left islam for the following reason:

- Wealth (get home by loan involving interest)

Most Muslims do this anyway in the U.K.

- Fail to control carnal desire and left Islam ( alot of muslims are failing every day to control their carnal desire, but they don't leave Islam, rather the repent to God and seek His Forgiveness. Alas man is weak..

And you would know this because? What about the Prophet of God who "used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives" (Sahih Bukhari 7:62:142)? This is more than any non-Muslims I have heard of

- Worried about Prayers and made it hard for you self by being lazy and not doing it for the sake of others (hiding from non-muslims, I do hide aswell, but i don't leave prayer)

Actually being a Muslim is to be worried about your prayers. Constantly. That's why Muslim men are going grey in their 20s. Yes, some people leave Islam because they are lazy/can't be bothered to pray, but not most. Most lazy people will stay within Islam though they are only fooling themselves.

- Fail to read Quran by yourself and fail to reflect on Quran, but rather looked at others who were doing wrong things in the name of Islam.

It was only when I READ and STUDIED the Qur'an that I realised Islam is a false religion.

- Unable to avoid alcohol etc

I have left Islam and still have not felt any inclination to drink.

- Struggle with other Muslims (specially ignorant)

Possibly. But does this not say something about Islam? If Islam cannot produce decent people then what does that say about Islam?

I feel sorry for those who left Islam just , i am very very sorry, only if you could have waited a bit more...

Yes, because that's just how unfair your God is, he will throw you in the fire if you change your mind in the 11th hour, won't he?

Absolute rubbish.

[matt2842]

The worst thing that can happen to you is to let religion in my case Islam take control of your life, it will tear your family apart.
My parent weren't religious before 1979 revolution in Iran, my dad was a politician, and my mym was a teacher.
After the revolution they started pretending to be a good muslims, but some how the idea got under their skin and they became stricktly religious, don't miss the early morning prayer, you wouldn't be allowed to go out or even school, not unless had your mid day prayer etc etc.
I was always the odd one, always late for early morning prayer, and always pretending that I am praying.
By the time I was 14 I started reading books about islam and ask question, serious ones like why muhammed killed all those people, why god exist, and it got me to loads of troubles, once I remember I got grounded for a month.
Any how after taking me to the Imam, sending me to private islamic lessons, they decided that the only way to control my wild thoughts is to get me married. It was hell of a time, because I wasnt agree they through me out of the house, and I ended up sleeping in the park for two weeks, well I was only 18 by then, so they forced me to get married to some one that I have never even seen before. But it only last for 6 months. One afternoon when I was comming home from work I saw her with her boyfriend, funny enough she admited thet he is her boyfriend and we got divorced.
There was the time that I told them I am atheist, and after a huge argument they disowned me, and asked me to leave their house, and that was it, two weeks later I was in Turkey, then moved to the UK.
Here I am now, haven't seen them for 20 years, and I doubt I'm going to see them again.
That is Islam for me, it is nothing but a destroyer of humanity, it has no moral values, and if you ask me who ever believes in it is basicaly a moron.

[iMuslim]

Im 19. You could say for 18years of my life, I was juust namesake muslim.
I was tryig to fit in to society, based on what it presented to me. But yet i still felt different
and society made me feel different. So just before i approached 19, i started surrounding
myself with good muslim people. And this hugely impacted my life. I changed my wild
life style of partying and living a life with no moral values into person who is at peace within.
Im proud to say i am a muslim. People can produce thousands of websites, you can hold a gun to me head for all
i care, you can do whatevr you want. I will die a beliver of Islam because it made me a better person.

[eSHaHeEN]

Hi,
this is my first entry here. First I'd like to introduce myself. Im not openly non-muslim, nor do I share anti-muslim sentiment. Actually I still feel somehow connected to the culture and to Islamic thinking in a spiritual way. And I do believe in god. So somehow I still regard myself as muslim but not in the orthodox way as I consider other religions as legitimate alternative ways to god and atheism is fine for me too. I dont consider the Quran as gods word, but indeed as a spiritually inspired work and Muhammad is a historic figure/7th century Arab conqueror to me who had a spiritual side too. I know that with that definition of my belief most orthodox muslims would already consider me a kuffar, but its my personal approach to that belief and I dont care about what others say. Enough said - now what has changed.
positive aspects:
got less aggressive, more tolerant/open to new influences, socially more integrated as I live in a western country, open to personal progress in a spiritual/professional and social sense due to more questioning/self-criticism (before I felt somehow stuck like in a pot of warm chocolate - its delicious but you suffocate in there), got more freedom of action and thinking, more fun. Intellectually free to think what I want. No constant remorse anymore. More honesty/more integrity.
negative aspects:
started drinking alcohol and smoking weed (one thing you cant deny is that islamic countries DO have low rates of alcoholism), got depressive, more worrisome as before as everything was so simple and structured then. Its a strong relief if you believe in a higher being protecting you as you dont have to worry about your significance in life resp. the sense of life all the time. In that sense less self-conscious. more self-critical.
I still hang out with my muslim friends and enjoy the warm feeling of community there. I feel that Islam has somehow developed a stronger form of brother-/sisterhood - a comfortable social nest warmth - than other religions. I mean in church you find individuals doing prayer under one roof and afterwards everyone seperates. In the mosque theres a real community. They call each other brother or sister. And I regard them my brothers and sisters nontheless. However I believe that the traditional form of Islam suffocates every progress, offers no options for the future and therefore weve got to develop new concepts and open new path for our religion and society.

[yeezevee]

Hi,
....And I do believe in god. So somehow I still regard myself as muslim but not in the orthodox way as I consider other religions as legitimate alternative ways to god and atheism is fine for me too. I dont consider the Quran as gods word, but indeed as a spiritually inspired work and Muhammad is a historic figure/7th century Arab conqueror to me who had a spiritual side too.

The moment you consider Quran as NOT word of god, then you ar eno more Muslim., As far as Quran has some spiritually inspired work and Muhammad is concerened., you need to provide some proof on that dear eSHaHeEN, without such proof it is just your belief not a fact.
..................................................
I still hang out with my muslim friends and enjoy the warm feeling of community there. I feel that Islam has somehow developed a stronger form of brother-/sisterhood - a comfortable social nest warmth - than other religions. I mean in church you find individuals doing prayer under one roof and afterwards everyone seperates. In the mosque theres a real community. They call each other brother or sister. And I regard them my brothers and sisters nontheless. However I believe that the traditional form of Islam suffocates every progress, offers no options for the future and therefore weve got to develop new concepts and open new path for our religion and society.[/quote]And what is that traditional Islam dear eSHaHeEN? Is it not preached in Quran/Hadith/Sunnah?? anyways welcome to FFI.

with best wishes
yeezevee

[eSHaHeEN]

The moment you consider Quran as NOT word of god, then you ar eno more Muslim., As far as Quran has some spiritually inspired work and Muhammad is concerened., you need to provide some proof on that dear eSHaHeEN, without such proof it is just your belief not a fact.
And what is that traditional Islam dear eSHaHeEN? Is it not preached in Quran/Hadith/Sunnah?? anyways welcome to FFI.

See that’s what everyone tells you. The Shiites have their Islam. The Sunnis have another one. The Ibadis consider 95% of muslims kuffar and the Wahabis are even worse. And everyone harasses poor Sufis. Nontheless all the unique truths are somehow based on the same Quran and Sunna.

Weve got a severe problem in Islam. It’s the ubiquitous lack of pluralism better the lack of acceptance of existing pluralism as our culture is not the monolithic block westerners tend to see. Indeed we’ve got a rich diversity of belief throughout the muslim world. There are ahmadiyya, alevites, druzes, ismailites, ahbahshees, bahai and and and… but people tend to condemn this diversity as bidaa and fitna instead of appreciating it as richness of our culture.

This lack of realizing social facts comes along with dishonesty on part of the individual muslim. I mean cmon how many muslims do you know that pray five times a day, don’t mingle with muslims, don’t listen to music or watch tv? If you were to apply the fatwas permanently issued by the sheikhs in the ivory towers of al-Azhar about 99% muslims would have to be considered living a non-muslim life. The sheikhs in the muslim world are aware of that fact. So they invented a trick: no matter what you do you stay a muslim if you don’t call your behavior Islamic. Translated it means: no matter what you do as long as you don’t question our authority so that we may blackmail you with charges and guilt at any time and maintain our power over your life everything is fine. Who gave these sheikhs the authority to say what Islam is and what isn’t and why aren’t muslims self-conscious enough to admit and defend their life-styles.
Instead most muslims choose to live a double-life under constant remorse. Why don’t we have the honesty to say: Listen this is my understanding of Islam: Mohammad was a prophet and arab conqueror in 7th century a.d.. Quran has a beautiful rich language full of sophisticated images and metaphors and I take that as a spiritual inspiration for my own life but I wont ignore the historical context of that. And I wont force anybody to follow my private belief. Let us accept our roots on the one hand but argue on a basis of reason and logic on the other.
As for Quran I don’t believe that it’s the one-to-one word of god. But I believe that many sura like for example Al-Maun with its strong imagery language do contain a spiritual connection as if inspired by a higher force. Islam as word-to-word instructions from gods manual is a very one-dimensional view that does not meet up with the richness of muslim especially sufi spiritual literature outside quran and sunna throughout muslim history. I think that belief shouldn’t be static stoic gymnastic exercise 5 times a day but prefer a dynamic, flexible, fluid and creative approach to a personal experience of spirituality and god.

The pressure of conformity present in muslim community hides muslim pluralism and hurts cohesion of muslim society much more than a new openness to flexibility in belief would. It allows so called scholars to take control of our lives and it obstructs personal development on a social and spiritual level. Individual self-consciousness and social acceptance are the keys to a more modern, a more adequate and more useful approach to creative spirituality and identity.

[-Peace-]

eSHaHeEN, can you tell me what do you think Islam is then? Please do let us know in the comments. The moment you don't believe in Quran it means you don't believe in Islam. The Quran is the major reason I stopped being a Muslim. Quran is word of GOD even though it's man-made, and that's what most Muslims believe. Do you believe in praying 5 times a day/fasting? If not, then what is your reason for not praying 5 times a day or not fasting?

[eSHaHeEN]

eSHaHeEN, can you tell me what do you think Islam is then? Please do let us know in the comments. The moment you don't believe in Quran it means you don't believe in Islam. The Quran is the major reason I stopped being a Muslim. Quran is word of GOD even though it's man-made, and that's what most Muslims believe. Do you believe in praying 5 times a day/fasting? If not, then what is your reason for not praying 5 times a day or not fasting?

On a practical level it means I practise Ramadan because I like the feeling of warm community that develops in that month. It strengthens your soul, enhances feelings of modesty and self-control. From time to time I pray the way I was taught to pray and add individual prayers too when I like. I like to go to mosque, too or listen to speeches of my sufi imam. I do read a lot of non-Islamic spiritual literature as well. There are definitely things I do like about my religion like the strong brother/sisterhood, the importance of family, the feeling of community in the mosque, Ramadan. Others I reject like the lack of freedom of opinion and action or the backward status of women.
See, when a Christian reads in his bible he does not take it for god’s word. He treats the bible as a spiritual text and takes it as an inspiration for his life. The same goes for Jews and their Torah. When Jews learn their Torah they don’t simply learn it by heart like Muslims do with their Quran. They examine and discuss it together with their Rabbis and make creative conclusions all the time. And experience a personal individual spirituality through that. Why can’t Muslims deal with their religion the same? Why can’t we learn our history, read the quran and discuss it together without limits of freedom of thought? Why is it that we are bound to either condemn or glorify everything about our history? Why can’t we accept it as it is, examine it with free thought, identify mistakes and grow by them or identify good things and take them as a model? Accept the strength of certain very inspiring parts of Quran and hadith and add own spiritual thoughts to it and expand our system of belief?
During my childhood I shared the orthodox view of Islam. I sucked up and emulated everything they told me without questioning. I blindly followed Islam just like a child blindly follows his father. When I grew older this view changed. I grew more and more sceptical and went through an age when I rejected everything Islamic. I deliberately started to hurt Islamic rulings like drinking or taking drugs and started to curse my religion- Today I’ve got a mature and ambivalent relation to Islam. However this doesn’t mean I reject my roots just like a grown man doesn’t reject his father even after he committed mistakes.
My point of view is this: Muhammad was an Arab conqueror of the 7th century who forged together the Arab tribes that were fighting each other into a nation and created a system of law and order in an area of total anarchy. For his time he appeared to be a progressive ruler and issued a lot of progressive rulings like improving the legal status of women, enhancing the status of the poor and creating security by the law. But this doesn’t mean he was a superhuman. He never said he was, He was a human of the 7th century, committing mistakes just as anybody of us does and we’ve got to judge his behaviour according to the time & place he lived in.
Now I do believe in god and I believe that there are many ways to god. If god is really an all-knowing bodiless force why should he make any distinction between religions? Why should a Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Jew be in favour of god just because of the name of the religion they believe in? What petty-minded jealous god this would be if he cared about such superficial differences?
No, I do believe in god and I believe there are many ways to Rome. I think that in history many people had their form of spirituality and approach to god like Moses, Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad, too. However for me Islam is my path, my roots, my identity. I’m not going to break ties with that. But I don’t deny the ambivalent nature of that relation. I stand by my religion self-consciously and honestly but I don’t glorify it. In that way I might be more a theist taking Islam as my frame for the same picture.

[Ram]

My point of view is this: Muhammad was an Arab conqueror of the 7th century who forged together the Arab tribes that were fighting each other into a nation and created a system of law and order in an area of total anarchy. For his time he appeared to be a progressive ruler and issued a lot of progressive rulings like improving the legal status of women, enhancing the status of the poor and creating security by the law. But this doesn’t mean he was a superhuman. He never said he was, He was a human of the 7th century, committing mistakes just as anybody of us does and we’ve got to judge his behaviour according to the time & place he lived in.

I hope you are not living in Pakistan. What you said is blasphemous in Pakistan. But I am glad that you questioning the Quran and the Islamic doctrine. Just be careful if you are in a Muslim country.

[yeezevee]

terrific post from eSHaHeEN and they are so good to read in FFI

Hi,
this is my first entry here. First I'd like to introduce myself. Im not openly non-muslim, nor do I share anti-muslim sentiment. Actually I still feel somehow connected to the culture and to Islamic thinking in a spiritual way. And I do believe in god.

I guess you would like word it as I am openly Muslim but I question Islam and some Muslims in Closet.. lol.. But when you say culture, I don't think Islamic culture is uniform across the globe and I believe the culture very much influenced by the non-Islamic traditions that were there before Islam came dear eSHaHeEN

Now you got to explain me a bit better on that word "Islamic thinking in a spiritual way"., tell me what is it how different is that if you compare it with spiritual way way of other religions either monotheistic or polytheistic /animistic religions or religions such as Buddhism from subcontinent that were there before the birth of Islam.

So somehow I still regard myself as muslim but not in the orthodox way as I consider other religions as legitimate alternative ways to god and atheism is fine for me too.

you know what you are saying there? You are saying this " As long as religion don't interfere with my personal spiritual ways to my humanistic values , every religion is O.K with me.."

I dont consider the Quran as gods word, but indeed as a spiritually inspired work and Muhammad is a historic figure/7th century Arab conqueror to me who had a spiritual side too. I know that with that definition of my belief most orthodox muslims would already consider me a kuffar, but its my personal approach to that belief and I dont care about what others say. Enough said - now what has changed.

Well that doesn't work like that dear eSHaHeEN., they care what you say and if you don't listen to them and tell them that "Muhammad is a historic figure/7th century Arab conqueror to me who had a spiritual side too."., some may not care but some will certainly beat you up,

Now you got to tell me a bit more here., that is " the SPIRITUAL SIDE of Prophet of Islam", Please write concisely 60 years of life of Prophet of Islam and point out to me the spiritual side that has +ve impact on humanity in this times as well as in his times.

positive aspects:
got less aggressive, more tolerant/open to new influences, socially more integrated as I live in a western country, open to personal progress in a spiritual/professional and social sense due to more questioning/self-criticism (before I felt somehow stuck like in a pot of warm chocolate - its delicious but you suffocate in there), got more freedom of action and thinking, more fun. Intellectually free to think what I want. No constant remorse anymore. More honesty/more integrity.

frankly speaking if you were Mosques going 5 time praying Quran reading man., you are NOT supposed to do the above stuff which indeed is antagonistic to basic Islamic preachings

negative aspects:

started drinking alcohol and smoking weed (one thing you cant deny is that islamic countries DO have low rates of alcoholism), got depressive , more worrisome as before as everything was so simple and structured then.

That is true., but you have to realize that if you are rich and filthy, you can get away with all those things in Islamic countries also. And in Western countries you don't need to do that. You just went in to that mode because of certain personal problem or hide your frustration on one thing or other..

Its a strong relief if you believe in a higher being protecting you as you dont have to worry about your significance in life resp. the sense of life all the time. In that sense less self-conscious. more self-critical.

well that is true for not only to Islam but every religion, including to Humanism and even to some extent to Atheism.

I still hang out with my muslim friends and enjoy the warm feeling of community there. I feel that Islam has somehow developed a stronger form of brother-/sisterhood - a comfortable social nest warmth - than other religions.

what is the big deal about it?? I heavily criticize Islam on web and some times on dinner table., And the best person who used to dearly love me (that was my aunt) used to feed me right from the baby days was very strong believer of Allah.. She used to leave her wonderful rich life and sleep on a mat some times without food in some Muslims saint tombs.. that weeks at a time.

I mean in church you find individuals doing prayer under one roof and afterwards everyone seperates.

Frankly speaking that is better than what Muslim to do in & around the Mosques. Unlike Christians, these Islamic experts in Mosques play Politics within Islamic society and with others, after that crowd listening to a brainless Mullah/Imam ...

In the mosque theres a real community. They call each other brother or sister. And I regard them my brothers and sisters nontheless.

well initially it looks good (as long as you are 12 or 13 year old) but creepiness seeps in to life., Sorry to say this to you but it is stupid to call every one brother and sister.. Just be friendly.. that is good eneough

However I believe that the traditional form of Islam suffocates every progress, offers no options for the future and therefore we ve got to develop new concepts and open new path for our religion and society.

Good point., how do we do that and what do you think about Mr. Ghamidi's Islam., please read this thread " Is it possible to reform islam? and watch the videos.. at viewtopic.php?f=22&t=7782 ., Also if you happened to have time please scan through this thread of The Cat.. " Muhammad -Myth vs Reality." viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5518

with best wishes
yeezevee

[saj69]

wel my wife is a liberal muslim now frm conservative ,,and i was a liberal muslim ,,now i dont believe in it at all now ,,my kids ,,im teching them already about the bad thing that the mullas teach us ,,so they are already takin the mick out of them ,,hopwfully 1 day 90% of muslims will be non muslims ,,and the 1s tht choose to stay muslims ,,wid beards ,,and dressing up as NINJAS ,, the government shud kick them out of this country ,, wel lets hope so

[Gauge123]

There are many truly spiritual people that are garbed in the garb of Islam. They have an innate spirituality that voices itself through the voice of Islam due to the unfortunate fact of being born muslim. Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The spirituality they feel is real...and most of the time, they are shocked when they see the full import of Islam as not addressing their spiritual urge at all. But some live their lives without knowing while still being sterling human beings.

Do not ignore their innate self.

At the core, everyone is a human being and has similar impulses and callings...some good, some bad. Regardless of how and in which way this is couched, pay attention to the human alone to see...what are the callings within she or he.

Judge not the book by the cover.

[eSHaHeEN]

Man its such a long time I didnt write anything.
I feel like I grew a lot more mature in the meantime and developed a lot more distance towards Islam and Islamic culture in general.
These days I find it interesting to read about all possible types of mythologies wether its the norse, the ancient egyptian, the sumerian or the old arabian mythology - and to compare them with each other. I like these mythologies, they are proof for the endless richness and creativity of the human mind. They inspire me a lot.

Today I look on Islam primarily as a part of my identity. Something that shaped me and the environment around me and something that is going to accompany me for the rest of my life. However its not like I truly believe that the Quran is the word of god. Neither does Islam have such a pervasive impact on my life anymore. Its more kind of a tradition for me. Its maybe comparable to some of the nordic guys who praise Odin and Thor out of a jovial mood when they do not really believe that there is somebody up there banging his hammer on an amboss and plaguing humanity with thunder and storms. Sometimes I like to pray the way I learned it - the Islamic way, because thats my frame for my spirituality. But the quality of belief has changed. I dont believe in the way that I definetly know that there is something like a god and that Im scared to death from breaking one single Islamic rule. My type of belief is that sometimes I HOPE there is something like god who helps me in certain situations. Just like some people have their talisman - I have my belief. I know its irrational but thats the way it is. But I can pretty much exclude that Allah is going to send me to hell for eternity if I enjoy a glass of beer. Allah is one scary god for sure but Im gonna accept that risk.

Different thougts are going through my mind. For example I ponder about what if Mohamed really made up that religion. Do you actually realize what that means?
There are very few historic personalities whose life has been documented in such detail as that of Mohamed. According to Islamic record this guy was born as an orphan. He couldnt even properly write or read. He wasnt a very influential or rich person and when he started preaching he was nearing his 50th birthday!!! 50!!! A lot of people these days start to think about retirement when they reach that age and in ancient times life expectancy was much lower so Mohamed was a really old man for his time. Moreover Arabia was one of the most backward regions of the earth back then.
Now when I look at the scale of influence this single man, this illeterate unimportant middle-aged guy from a backward region - a human being like you and me - had on the course of human history I get goose bumps. I freeze in awe and disbelief on the impact of his legacy. Maybe Mohamed himself would have never believed how much his words would change the world if somebody had told him back then.
Let us just realize what he achieved. 20% of the current population of earth, 1.5 billion people !!! are Muslims these days in more than two dozen countries across the whole world. these people do not only worship mohamed - ONE most excellent THOUSAND AND FOURHOUNDRED YEARS LATER they praise his name several times a day in their prayers and follow every single word of this man, every single law. Laws that are not of general nature - laws that pervade even the most intimate areas of their lives. Hell some of these people even try to adopt the same sleeping position Mohammed had when he went to bed - 1400 YEARS AGO. Even in these days tens of thousands of Muslims are willing to travel half the world to fight for the honour of the prophet, willing to blow themselves up for the prophet. Some fathers and mothers are ready to kill their own children for this guy who lived 1,400 years ago. A human being like you and me.

I really like history, I have spent my whole life reading about history. However I cannot think of anybody else in history who had such a unique lasting pervasive and immediate impact on the course of humanity like Mohamed. He is the single most influential human ever. His legacy is incomparable. Neither Alexander nor Ghengis Khan nor Aristotle exerted so much influence and power over humans. Some people might now complain that Jesus was more influential taking into account that there are more christians than muslims these days. Well let me tell you this. First of all one has to remark that Jesus is not a historical personality. It might be that he never really existed. Some people say christianity just like judaism is a spin-off from the ancient egyptian religion and that Jesus is indeed Horus. I cant judge that. But I can say this: first of all what we have today in form of the bible - its not the words Jesus immediatly said. Furthermore Jesus was not a secular leader. He didnt build a nation. Christianity was indeed adopted by western culture but would the course of western history have gone a completely different direction if Europeans had stuck to their old religions? I believe that Christianity is much less important for the understanding of Western course of history than the Roman and Greek heritage.
One cannot say the same about Muslim culture as it is deeply centered around Mohamed's teaching. And if you want to assess the impact of Mohameds work just assume for one second Mohamed has never been born - what would the world possibly look like? The Arabs would have never united. They would have never left Arabia. Maybe the Byzantine empire would still be existing today. In Egypt people would be talking Greek. The old Roman provinces in North Africa and the Middle East - just basically everything would look dramatically different from what we have today.
To sum it up in one sentence: regardless of wether youre religious or not - its just blowing my mind what influence one single person can have on humanity.

to be continued...

[manfred]

Lovely to hear from you again. Thank you taking the time to write to us all.