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need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:31 pm
by KryptLord
Im a Muslim , who was recently studying different religions and history of religions , i just did some shallow study and i was pretty sure that islam is better then them!
One day i randomly thought that "Does the God even Exist?"
i saw some of Zakir Naik's videos and saw that he gave proof that Quran is God's word!
But , if he really is up there, then why evil is flourishing ? Only the Bad People in the world are flourishing , Good people are mostly left behind!
If Muslims are his chosen people then why they are being Killed in Burma? Afghanistan?
If Jews are his chosen people then why he didn't do anything during The Holocaust?
If Christians are his chosen people then why "Thirty Year Wars" & "Crusades" etc.

Why doesn't he do anything?

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:03 pm
by pr126
KryptLord wrote:Im a Muslim , who was recently studying different religions and history of religions , i just did some shallow study and i was pretty sure that islam is better then them!
One day i randomly thought that "Does the God even Exist?"
i saw some of Zakir Naik's videos and saw that he gave proof that Quran is God's word!
But , if he really is up there, then why evil is flourishing ? Only the Bad People in the world are flourishing , Good people are mostly left behind!
If Muslims are his chosen people then why they are being Killed in Burma? Afghanistan?
If Jews are his chosen people then why he didn't do anything during The Holocaust?
If Christians are his chosen people then why "Thirty Year Wars" & "Crusades" etc.

Why doesn't he do anything?

Welcome to the forum.

You have interesting questions. In fact, that you are even questioning, is a good thing. It means that you are thinking, you have doubts, and open to different ideas.
Your question is:."Does the God even Exist?" My answer is no. There never was a god except in peoples minds.

Other than other people's opinions, what proofs are there? What good is a god that only demands, never helps?

Billions of humans pray, beseech one god or another for thousands of years, but there is never an answer. They might as well pray to a bottle of milk with the same results.

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:12 pm
by ygalg
welcome to the forum KryptLord. these questions, I asked myself too. I reached to conclusion, that god is mere fiction. I realized that I've lived unrealistically.

the frighting part of realization is that you understand many people got killed and will be killed for this fib.

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:28 pm
by Auzer
Hello Kryptlord ,

You are in the wrong forum but still..Welcome.

Regarding your question... This is a good article by a man who was an Atheist but accepted Islam...you might wanna read it?

http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/philosophy-theology/the-quranic-argument-for-gods-existence/


My personal philosophy is this however : Does God exist? Who knows? Why should we even care? If you are a good man..God won't punish you (if he exists). So just be a good man. Respect your parents , treat others justly , study , work hard , get proper education , achieve something in life .... If God really exists...he will reward you because remember..you are good man. If he doesn't exist...so lets be it.

So just be a good human being and enjoy your life ...

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:13 am
by Marie
Kryptlord that is a question you will have to answer yourself.

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:51 am
by KryptLord
i dont need quranic quide on it! i know it told manythings that were later found out to be true!
My Question is that , Why doesn't God do anything to the Evil? i mean, look around , Evil flourishes everywhere , Good people never win!( 1 in 100 good people may win , but not all).

i ask this question to myself that do u believe in God , and im confused! i thought prayers would help me but they didn't!
i recently studied different religions , found out that Islam is the best religion of all (according to me) , but then one day i asked myself , "Does the God Exist?".
Im Confused! :(

i know i look fool when i say all these things but im just a 16yo kid! maybe im thinking too much!

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:55 am
by Auzer
KryptLord wrote:i dont need quranic quide on it! i know it told manythings that were later found out to be true!
My Question is that , Why doesn't God do anything to the Evil? i mean, look around , Evil flourishes everywhere , Good people never win!( 1 in 100 good people may win , but not all).

i ask this question to myself that do u believe in God , and im confused! i thought prayers would help me but they didn't!
i recently studied different religions , found out that Islam is the best religion of all (according to me) , but then one day i asked myself , "Does the God Exist?".
Im Confused! :(


Well Krypton that depends on your view of "evil" ... I don't see evil flourishing everywhere. Yes , evil might flourish..but so are the good people.

People like Steve Jobs , Bill Gates etc changed this world. They were good people...they earned billions of dollars.. All the doctors , engineers , I.T experts working on high wages...I think majority of them are good people who , through their hardwork , come on top. Now obviously we all have short-comings ..we all make mistakes...but generally , all people have some good and some bad in them...so don't worry.

Can I ask you...how can you say that 'evil wins everywhere' while good people don't? Can you elaborate?

Also , this is a very good Islamic forum ...

http://www.whyIslam.com/forum/

Might wanna check this out.. Go ask your fellow Muslims all the questions you have....see what they have to say on this matter?

Majority of people here are Agnostic/Atheists or Islam-hating biased Christians....so you might have problem in communicating with us effectively..

And don't be sad buddy! Life is bigggg..you'll get all your answers with time...just relax :)

i know i look fool when i say all these things but im just a 16yo kid! maybe im thinking too much!


And no , you don't look fool! Believe me , you look very intelligent! All people here would agree. In the age of 16 , you are asking complex questions of life. This is a sign of intelligence...children of your age won't even comprehend your questions..you are ahead of the game boy! Be proud of yourself...

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:08 am
by pr126
Hello Auzer.

Are you doing dawah? Your mask is slipping.


Also , this is a very good Islamic forum ...

http://www.whyIslam.com/forum/

Might wanna check this out.. Go ask your fellow Muslims all the questions you have....see what they have to say on this matter?


I don't think asking fellow Muslims about doubt in Islam is a good idea. They might pressure him to get back into the cult, or probably beat him up and persecute him for becoming a murtad.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:51 am
by KryptLord
Auzer bhai , the thing is i dont know how to decide!
If he really is up there, then he could have found a better way to communicate with his men (i dont think that communicating with the help of a Prophet or book is good)
i have come here to connect with all the others! if i connect with only muslims they would definitely tell me to believe in what they say!
BTW Bill gates is Agnostic

im confused as sh!t! :/ :cry:

i'll check that forum anyway!

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:26 am
by pr126

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:54 am
by pr126
Kryptlord wrote:
BTW Bill gates is Agnostic

Oddly enough, Auzer also claims to be an agnostic.
But just like you, we too think that he is a "brother".

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:39 pm
by Marie
KryptLord wrote:i dont need quranic quide on it! i know it told manythings that were later found out to be true!
My Question is that , Why doesn't God do anything to the Evil? i mean, look around , Evil flourishes everywhere , Good people never win!( 1 in 100 good people may win , but not all).

i ask this question to myself that do u believe in God , and im confused! i thought prayers would help me but they didn't!
i recently studied different religions , found out that Islam is the best religion of all (according to me) , but then one day i asked myself , "Does the God Exist?".
Im Confused! :(

i know i look fool when i say all these things but im just a 16yo kid! maybe im thinking too much!


It may seem like good people never win. But when it comes to God's judgement the good always win. In the end evil people will get the punishment they deserve.

Plus evil does not reign everywhere. There is good in many parts of the world.

Ask God to show you the way.

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:17 pm
by ringmaster
pr126 wrote:Hello Auzer.

Are you doing dawah? Your mask is slipping.


Also , this is a very good Islamic forum ...

http://www.whyIslam.com/forum/

Might wanna check this out.. Go ask your fellow Muslims all the questions you have....see what they have to say on this matter?


I don't think asking fellow Muslims about doubt in Islam is a good idea. They might pressure him to get back into the cult, or probably beat him up and persecute him for becoming a murtad.

But you knew that, didn't you?



Yup......Auzer's mask definitely came off that time, although it was not really much of a mask to start with. It was a see-through mask.

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:21 am
by Auzer
KryptLord wrote:Auzer bhai , the thing is i dont know how to decide!
If he really is up there, then he could have found a better way to communicate with his men (i dont think that communicating with the help of a Prophet or book is good)
i have come here to connect with all the others! if i connect with only muslims they would definitely tell me to believe in what they say!
BTW Bill gates is Agnostic

im confused as sh!t! :/ :cry:

i'll check that forum anyway!


Well yes. This point is valid that if God wants us to 'worship' him..why doesn't he show up and tell us to do it? Well , I saw someone explaining this question once..Well suppose a great might being suddenly appears from the sky and say "Worship me , I'm God! the most powerful!!!" etc..Surely we ALL will start worshiping him... but then...what will be the purpose of this world? We won't have any "free-will" ..We all be like "robots" and not humans because now...we ALL will worship him...these is no "faith" in that case...You see the point?

You don't have to decide! Just go along with your life and see how it turns out to be...

Best of luck...

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:49 am
by skynightblaze
Auzer wrote:Well yes. This point is valid that if God wants us to 'worship' him..why doesn't he show up and tell us to do it? Well , I saw someone explaining this question once..Well suppose a great might being suddenly appears from the sky and say "Worship me , I'm God! the most powerful!!!" etc..Surely we ALL will start worshiping him...
but then...what will be the purpose of this world? We won't have any "free-will" ..We all be like "robots" and not humans because now...we ALL will worship him...these is no "faith" in that case...You see the point?

You don't have to decide! Just go along with your life and see how it turns out to be...

Best of luck...


Dear muslim ,

I have questions for you..

Like your prophet there are 1000's of charlatans who also claim to be from God. SO whom do we trust and why? If your God does not provide concrete proofs then why should he be chosen ahead of others who also claim to be a prophets of GOd or Gods themselves? Every single one of them can claim the same thing that God does not show himself or give concrete proofs because he wants people to use free will. In that case whom do we chose? So you see your stupid answers do not add up and therefore God needs to provide proofs of his existence so that we can sift between charlatans and God.

Secondly what is the point of free will if we are going to get punished as a consequence of using our free will? Is it really free will ? I will repeat a analogy which has often been repeated here.Imagine you are hold at a gun point by a robber who tells you " You have free will to reject my demands and if you do that , I shall kill you". Is that really free will ? Do you or your prophet even understand what free will means?

Thirdly you claim that we should not become like robots however if you follow quran word to word without using your intelligence then you also become a robot but then why do you insist anyone follow the quran? Why not use our own intellect and decide a path for ourselves if you are so concerned about not being a robot?

Lastly, doesn't the quran claim that it created mankind so that they worship him? If getting worshiped by mankind was the purpose of Allah behind creation of mankind then why not make sure that you achieve your purpose? As far as I know muslims are approx 20% of the world population so the current strategy used by Allah is an utter failure. So do you accept that Allah could not achieve his aim?

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:21 am
by Auzer
skynightblaze wrote:
Auzer wrote:Well yes. This point is valid that if God wants us to 'worship' him..why doesn't he show up and tell us to do it? Well , I saw someone explaining this question once..Well suppose a great might being suddenly appears from the sky and say "Worship me , I'm God! the most powerful!!!" etc..Surely we ALL will start worshiping him...
but then...what will be the purpose of this world? We won't have any "free-will" ..We all be like "robots" and not humans because now...we ALL will worship him...these is no "faith" in that case...You see the point?

You don't have to decide! Just go along with your life and see how it turns out to be...

Best of luck...


Dear muslim ,

I have questions for you..

Like your prophet there are 1000's of charlatans who also claim to be from God. SO whom do we trust and why? If your God does not provide concrete proofs then why should he be chosen ahead of others who also claim to be a prophets of GOd or Gods themselves? Every single one of them can claim the same thing that God does not show himself or give concrete proofs because he wants people to use free will. In that case whom do we chose? So you see your stupid answers do not add up and therefore God needs to provide proofs of his existence so that we can sift between charlatans and God.

Secondly what is the point of free will if we are going to get punished as a consequence of using our free will? Is it really free will ? I will repeat a analogy which has often been repeated here.Imagine you are hold at a gun point by a robber who tells you " You have free will to reject my demands and if you do that , I shall kill you". Is that really free will ? Do you or your prophet even understand what free will means?

Thirdly you claim that we should not become like robots however if you follow quran word to word without using your intelligence then you also become a robot but then why do you insist anyone follow the quran? Why not use our own intellect and decide a path for ourselves if you are so concerned about not being a robot?

Lastly, doesn't the quran claim that it created mankind so that they worship him? If getting worshiped by mankind was the purpose of Allah behind creation of mankind then why not make sure that you achieve your purpose? As far as I know muslims are approx 20% of the world population so the current strategy used by Allah is an utter failure. So do you accept that Allah could not achieve his aim?


What an idiot... :lol:

Don't derail the thread....

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:25 am
by KryptLord
People often say that people who don't believe in God become Evil.... i guess the evillness and goodness is inside the person no matter what religion he has?
i have many questions to ask from God (if he exists) untill i get the answers of my questions , i will think of him as a delusion.
Marie wrote:In the end evil people will get the punishment they deserve.

Plus evil does not reign everywhere. There is good in many parts of the world.

Ask God to show you the way.


I have never seen evil people get their punishment in the World! :/ not most of them, they all die due to age , not by any punishment!

Auzer wrote:Well yes. This point is valid that if God wants us to 'worship' him..why doesn't he show up and tell us to do it? Well , I saw someone explaining this question once..Well suppose a great might being suddenly appears from the sky and say "Worship me , I'm God! the most powerful!!!" etc..Surely we ALL will start worshiping him... but then...what will be the purpose of this world? We won't have any "free-will" ..We all be like "robots" and not humans because now...we ALL will worship him...these is no "faith" in that case...You see the point?


We can never have free will when we have to follow God , no matter what religion we have...

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:41 am
by enceladus
KryptLord wrote:(snip)
i know i look fool when i say all these things but im just a 16yo kid! maybe im thinking too much!


Welcome, KryptLord!

No, you're not a fool at all! :) By asking questions, you are showing that you have more intelligence than many people twice your age (or even older).

Here, I have copied some stuff from another thread of mine. I think this may be useful -

*** start of copied text ***
If Islam were "the truth", then surely as "the truth", it should be able to cope with - indeed, it should welcome - all questions put to it, should it not? What does "the truth" have to fear from questions and scrutiny?

On the other hand, what characteristics would one expect to see of an ideology that is lies?
I suggest that such an ideology would show the following characteristics -

a) It would frown on making friends with people outside the ideology.
b) It would forbid people to leave the ideology (and punish those who tried).
c) It would forbid, severely limit or punish the asking of critical questions.
d) It would brainwash the young.
e) It would try to block access to websites that were critical of it (this is, of course, a result of (c). )
f) Related to the above items - the ideology would be big on power, control, and fear, using these to "keep the masses toeing the line", keeping them obedient. The lies on their own aren't enough to make people obey, so they are backed up by these measures. ( The flipside is that once you break the control and the fear, the ideology's lies are exposed, and its power disappears. )

As you can easily see, all of the above six statements are true of Islam.

Islam scurries around in the shadows, trying to avoid scrutiny like a thief in the night.
That is not the kind of behaviour that you would expect of an "ideology of truth".
*** end of copied text ***

Have a look at the two threads in my sig too, KryptLord. They may (possibly) help to answer a few of your questions.

Here is a page of testimonies from people who have left Islam - you might want to have a look at a few of them. I'm sure that you'll find one or two who mention similar circumstances to your own.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/People_Who_Le ... estimonies

Looking forward to seeing more of your contributions here - bye for now -
- enceladus

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:37 pm
by skynightblaze
Auzer wrote:What an idiot... :lol:
Don't derail the thread....


I can understand your frustration because you have become a mere spectator who can just watch his arguments being trashed so I have decided to give a little relief to a troll like you. I have raised 4 questions and answer any 1 of your choice. Btw your pathetic attempt at trying to convince the new comer has failed because he has already seen through the crap that you write.

Re: need ur suggestions!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:16 pm
by Marie
"KryptLord"

I have never seen evil people get their punishment in the World! :/ not most of them, they all die due to age , not by any punishment!


How do you know they never receive their due punishment?