need ur suggestions!

[KryptLord]

How do you know they never receive their due punishment?

Most of them never Get their punishment! Mostly in the World only Evil people are successful!

Looking forward to seeing more of your contributions here - bye for now -
- enceladus

watch the following videos , and answer me , this is what is keeping me confused!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKeAWobp ... ure=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtEAC7YtVDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA665OQ5ybI

I saw someone explaining this question once..Well suppose a great might being suddenly appears from the sky and say "Worship me , I'm God! the most powerful!!!" etc..Surely we ALL will start worshiping him...

Well then what is wrong with such a world? doesn't he wants everyone to be peaceful? does he wants sinners himself?

[enceladus]

watch the following videos , and answer me , this is what is keeping me confused!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKeAWobp ... ure=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtEAC7YtVDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA665OQ5ybI

Hi again -
Unfortunately, Zakir Naik is replying in Arabic (I think), which I don't understand.
Anyway - this page may be of some help - it includes a link to a few rebuttals of Naik's arguments-
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Zakir_Naik

If you can ask me questions in English (ask about the stuff that is making you confused), I'll do my best to answer them!

( Just btw - I'm an atheist, but I dropped into this forum anyway, in spite of not being supposed to..... )
Bye for now -
- enceladus

[KryptLord]

Unfortunately, Zakir Naik is replying in Arabic (I think), which I don't understand.

No no , click on the "CC" button on the bottom right corner of the video , subtitles will appear!

Anyway - this page may be of some help - it includes a link to a few rebuttals of Naik's arguments-
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Zakir_Naik

no , i dont really believe on this site that much , i saw the article on rape , and it says that Islam gives green light for it , but actually "ZINA" (RAPE) is one of the greatest sin in Islam!

[pr126]

KryptLord wrote:

no , i dont really believe on this site that much , i saw the article on rape , and it says that Islam gives green light for it , but actually "ZINA" (RAPE) is one of the greatest sin in Islam!

In Islam, there is no concept of rape.
Zina doesn't mean rape. It means unlawful sexual intercourse, such as adultery.
A female who is a property, (of the father, husband,) cannot refuse sexual intercourse.

The law is about adultery, which according to the Quran needs 4 witnesses to prove. Quran 24:4
However, there can never be 4 witnesses to a rape. It is absurd. How can a woman summon 4 male witnesses to a rape?
Were they spectators or participants?

[sum]

Hello KryptLord

There is no such thing as marital rape in Islam. A man is permitted to use force to have sex with his wife if she is not willing.

Hedaya
Hedaya is the Islamic law book used by the barristers of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, England, Ireland....

Its stipulations are codified Islamic laws. It is the law manual of Hanafi sect of Islam. Hanafi sect dominates India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Afghanistan. Ask any lawyer/imam and he will tell you the authenticity of Hedaya.

In short, Hedaya is the Islamic law book used in the court procedures.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ab ... nIslam.htm below
Here is what HEDAYA (ref. 11, p. 141) writes:

One can enjoy a wife by force

But not if she be refractory.—If a wife be disobedient or refractory and go abroad without her husband’s consent, she is not entitled to any support from him, until she return and make submission, because the rejection of the matrimonial restraint in this instance originates with her; but when she returns home, she is then subject to it, for which reason she again becomes entitled to her support as before. It is otherwise where a woman, residing in the house of her husband, refuses to admit him to the conjugal embrace, as she is entitled to maintenance, notwithstanding her opposition, because being then in his power, he may, if he please, enjoys her by force.

It is clear that Islam does not regard forced sex with one`s wife as rape although outside Islam it is rape. Islam likes to redefine words.

sum

[Nazzim ibn Abu Talib]

Hello KryptLord

There is no such thing as marital rape in Islam. A man is permitted to use force to have sex with his wife if she is not willing.

Hedaya
Hedaya is the Islamic law book used by the barristers of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, England, Ireland....

Its stipulations are codified Islamic laws. It is the law manual of Hanafi sect of Islam. Hanafi sect dominates India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Afghanistan. Ask any lawyer/imam and he will tell you the authenticity of Hedaya.

In short, Hedaya is the Islamic law book used in the court procedures.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ab ... nIslam.htm below
Here is what HEDAYA (ref. 11, p. 141) writes:

One can enjoy a wife by force

But not if she be refractory.—If a wife be disobedient or refractory and go abroad without her husband’s consent, she is not entitled to any support from him, until she return and make submission, because the rejection of the matrimonial restraint in this instance originates with her; but when she returns home, she is then subject to it, for which reason she again becomes entitled to her support as before. It is otherwise where a woman, residing in the house of her husband, refuses to admit him to the conjugal embrace, as she is entitled to maintenance, notwithstanding her opposition, because being then in his power, he may, if he please, enjoys her by force.

It is clear that Islam does not regard forced sex with one`s wife as rape although outside Islam it is rape. Islam likes to redefine words.

sum

The laws of many countries don't recognize any relationship within marriage, forced or not, as rape. Not exclusive to Islame. It is there in Indian Penal Code, since it derives from British code I guess the old British law also allowed this? Not certain.

But certainly Zina is not rape. If a man has consensual relationship with his girlfriend most won't call it rape, but in Islam it's Zina. Ditto for a Muslim who divorces his wife while in anger, then repents what he did and then takes it back...it just doesn't work. One such case had caused a huge uproar and mass demonstrations in my village when a court ruled that this woman was not divorced. Many a death threats later (at least the Barelvis aren't as mad-core as Wahhabis, so it was never executed) the court reverted. Of course "Allah
always rushes to please Muhammad and his followers."

[enceladus]

No no , click on the "CC" button on the bottom right corner of the video , subtitles will appear!

Thanks for that. Anyway, I've decided not to watch the videos (having heard enough of Zakir Naik from others). There are a number of others in the forum here who are more familiar with him and his arguments. If you start a thread in the "Islam questioned and defended" forum - something like "Can you rebut Zakir Naik?" - maybe they will appear in that thread.

no , i dont really believe on this site that much , i saw the article on rape , and it says that Islam gives green light for it , but actually "ZINA" (RAPE) is one of the greatest sin in Islam!

Ok - I have no problem with your not believing that site......

In any case, I would again say - does the way that Islam behaves (the six things that I mentioned earlier) not raise suspicions for you? It should do.

The truth can stand on its own two feet, can't it? Does "the truth" need protection from questions? Does it need to use threats of harm if you are not convinced of it?
Does "the truth" need to say "you must believe! You must believe, or else....."

Shouldn't "the truth" be able to convince every single person in the world?

I am not Buddhist, but I find this quote from Buddha much more convincing than anything that Mohammad ever said -
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
- Buddha

And yes - I freely admit that that applies to anything I say, too. You need to use your own reason and common-sense to judge my comments (and those of anyone else).
- enceladus

[skynightblaze]

Hi again -
Unfortunately, Zakir Naik is replying in Arabic (I think), which I don't understand.

Zakir is speaking in hindi (national language of india) and not arabic and I understand hindi . It seems that a lot of people are fooled by Naik. Krptlord can just open a topic in Islam questioned and defended.

[KryptLord]

The Reason im not Going to a Islamic Forum is that i dont believe in them anymore! :/ thats why i came here to get opinions from multi-religious and non religious people! but to me, Atheism looks better than all!

Krptlord can just open a topic in Islam questioned and defended.

Ok i'll open a topic about it there! let's see what people respond to him!

Thanks for that. Anyway, I've decided not to watch the videos (having heard enough of Zakir Naik from others).

Zakir naik is just telling some of the modern discoveries , which were written in Quran 1400+ years ago when they weren't even discovered!

In any case, I would again say - does the way that Islam behaves (the six things that I mentioned earlier) not raise suspicions for you? It should do.

yes , anyone who becomes an Apostate (or thinks about Becoming one) has all those things in mind , thats why he thinks of choosing some other path!

and to others , dont know about the wife but having sex with someone else forcefully is also Zina.... so that is much of a definition of Rape!

[Sten]

Hi Kryptlord, there is one very interesting question about religion that you must ask yourself - why do they all demand belief more than anything else? Belief just happens to be something that gives human leaders a great deal of power. Do you think this is a coincidence?

Keep thinking, you can never think too much. Remember that when thinking about something becomes uncomfortable for you, it means you must think even harder about it and the reasons why it makes you feel uncomfortable. Too many people seal their minds off and remain ignorant about the true nature of the world.

[enceladus]

The Reason im not Going to a Islamic Forum is that i dont believe in them anymore! :/

Fair enough! It is good to be able to think critically. That is exactly what Buddha was talking about in that quote I mentioned.

thats why i came here to get opinions from multi-religious and non religious people! but to me, Atheism looks better than all!

Yep - good on you. It's good to get a range of opinions on things.
Yes - I reckon atheism is pretty good, being one myself!

Zakir naik is just telling some of the modern discoveries , which were written in Quran 1400+ years ago when they weren't even discovered!

Ahhhh.... that kind of thing. Nah - even though I haven't watched those videos, I'm not convinced. I have heard (many times) that he twists the meanings of words and phrases to make it seem as if the Quran "predicted" scientific discoveries. (I'm sure others in the forums here will be able to confirm that).

A question for you - why does the Quran say that sperm come "from between the backbone and the ribs", when even an 8-year-old boy can tell you that sperm comes from the testicles?
My answer? The Quran is simply the recorded ramblings of Mohammad (who knew nothing of physiology). I'm sure many here would agree with my answer.

One thing I will do. I will post two videos of Zakir Naik being debunked (I'm sure there are more, too... ). These are both in English -




- enceladus

[KryptLord]

now i still have question against Atheism! hope u ppl can answer this!
If Darwin theory believes in Evolution of Man from Apes , and if we still believe in Evolution , then why dont Humans develope into something more Evolutionary? something more better than Humans!
hope u understand this Question!

and the thing is that , even if i become an Atheist , i can just be a closet atheist as i live in Pakistan , there is no law about being free once ur 18yo! i would still have to practice Islam untill i move out!

[pr126]

now i still have question against Atheism! hope u ppl can answer this!
If Darwin theory believes in Evolution of Man from Apes , and if we still believe in Evolution , then why dont Humans develope into something more Evolutionary? something more better than Humans!
hope u understand this Question!

and the thing is that , even if i become an Atheist , i can just be a closet atheist as i live in Pakistan , there is no law about being free once ur 18yo! i would still have to practice Islam untill i move out!

Let me see if I understood your question.
If you mean Darwinian evolution then I think we as human species are pretty much evolved as far as we can, and since our environment is stable, it means no more evolution [modification] is necessary for the present.

If however you are referring to our moral "evolution", then that has nothing to do with Darwinian evolution. A whole different subject.
But, look up "Social Darwinism", which is a different can of worms.

[Nazzim ibn Abu Talib]

now i still have question against Atheism! hope u ppl can answer this!
If Darwin theory believes in Evolution of Man from Apes , and if we still believe in Evolution , then why dont Humans develope into something more Evolutionary? something more better than Humans!
hope u understand this Question!

and the thing is that , even if i become an Atheist , i can just be a closet atheist as i live in Pakistan , there is no law about being free once ur 18yo! i would still have to practice Islam untill i move out!

The Geological era is not such a short time. It can stretch over periods of thousands to million years. How do we know humans aren't evolving towards a certain direction? The changes that accumulate in one human generation is very small and subtle to be detected as evolution directed towards speciation. In the next thousands of years there might be gradual change in the form of human beings, maybe a specialized lung to filter out the excessive dust/carbon particles that we're so indiscriminately producing. Recently a research team claimed that the Y gene in males which is already shorter than its (hemi)analogous X counterpart is shortening further and in next centuries to come it might vanish altogether. I haven't followed up on that one though.

[enceladus]

Hi again, KryptLord -
In response to your question about present-day evolution in humans - it is indeed still happening. The biggest change I can point to is that we have become quite a bit taller and heavier since the Middle Ages (only 800 or so years ago). This is mainly due to improved diet.

Here is an excellent vid on evolution that should be pretty convincing for you. It has **genetic proof** for evolution. Start it at 3:25 - that's where the really good stuff begins -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0

- and an article from National Geographic - "Human Genome Shows Proof of Recent Evolution" http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ution.html

Then there is the matter of bacteria evolving resistance to antibiotics. THis article is excellent -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_resistance

- enceladus

[KryptLord]

by seeing u people , i realise that im just a Kid! LOL

[Nazzim ibn Abu Talib]

by seeing u people , i realise that im just a Kid! LOL

I'm 20 lol

[manfred]

You asked if humans will further develop and if evolution is still going on...

Well, of course it is. Will we at some point become "super humans". Who knows, maybe, if we don't die out before then. If humans die out, and life on earth continues, there is no reason to assume that evolution will select the smartest creature to take over after us, either. Simply the best adapted to the conditions as they then will be strongest, that is the one who will be the strongest. Maybe a planet of cockroaches?

Perhaps it is worth saying that it is OK not to have all the answers. Nobody does.

It is also worth saying that some questions are more relevant than others. We will be all long dead before humans disappear from the planet, one way of the other.

We can't change the past. We can't control the future, either. The only thing we can exercise some degree of control over is that split second, that knife edge between the "back then" and the "not yet", the present. And yet we like to spend a great deal of our mental energy on the past or the future, maybe too much?



Nobody can tell you want you should believe. Your choice. You had a lot of good advice, in particular, it is very important to examine beliefs you hold. This site is rather good for that...


However, one thing you will not find here: Someone telling you what you should believe, a new kind of prophet or something. You can check you own ideas with people from a whole host of backgrounds and experiences, but at the end of the day you must judge for yourself. In doing so, there will invariably be some who disagree with your judgement, but that is fine too. After all, you are you.

If you want to test out Islam further, this is an excellent place for that, you will find other Muslims here, as well as ex-Muslims. Also there are people from other religious traditions, Christians, Jewish, Hindu and others, and a fair number of agnostics and atheists. You can imagine that in such a mix there are many areas of disagreement, but all of strive to find the answers with the help of all the others. Because of this mix, you can be pretty sure, that most issues will get multiple viewpoints. This is good because it will help to produce a fair picture.

Anyway, that was my little welcome to you... All the best and good luck!

[KryptLord]

Im not yet ready for choosing Atheism! i need some time! to ponder! although i guess im pretty clear! but i'll just think anyways!

I'm 20 lol

im 16 so in a sense , im a kid infront of u too!

[TheQueenOfTruth]

Im a Muslim , who was recently studying different religions and history of religions , i just did some shallow study and i was pretty sure that islam is better then them!
One day i randomly thought that "Does the God even Exist?"
i saw some of Zakir Naik's videos and saw that he gave proof that Quran is God's word!
But , if he really is up there, then why evil is flourishing ? Only the Bad People in the world are flourishing , Good people are mostly left behind!
If Muslims are his chosen people then why they are being Killed in Burma? Afghanistan?
If Jews are his chosen people then why he didn't do anything during The Holocaust?
If Christians are his chosen people then why "Thirty Year Wars" & "Crusades" etc.

Why doesn't he do anything?

You don't need to study religions, you will never find yours answers there. They all preach about how they are the one and only "truth", but the real truth is that the people who wrote those "holy" books are just PEOPLE, like you and I. Religion usually starts with one man who wants power, in search of weak minded and submissive people to brainwash. The brainwashed ones recycle the lies their so-called prophet/messenger told them, brainwash their children and further generations and it continues for centuries, unless someone breaks the evil circle( that could be you). It's how Islam was founded. We were just one of many who were unfortunate enough to be born into this cult, it's all a coincidence( isn't life just one big coincidence?). Its' not meant for you by any means, if that's what you think.

You are thinking what I was thinking few years ago. The reasons why so-called "god" doesn't do anything, is because it doesn't exist. If it did, how could it be so cruel? Why are there so much pain & suffering in this world? If god truly exists, then it's just as bad as satan!