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The Stoning of....

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:27 pm
by IslamoCritic
No, not that film based on a true story. I mean this sahih one:

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Re: The Stoning of....

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:11 pm
by manfred
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:

Narrated ‘Amru bin Maimun: “During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”


This little tale leaves you gasping for breath for its stupidity...

I guess it is a clumsy sort of attempt to justify the stoning of an adulteress, even though the Qur'an does not specify the punishment at all.

So while the QUr'an says an adulteress should be beaten, Mohammed had them stoned. This much we know. All sorts of excuses were made why Mohammed did not follow the Qur'an on this issue, but this one must get the prize for being the daftest...

We are told that the stoning of an adulteress is a kind of natural phenomenon, even observed by monkeys, and it pre-dates Islam. Therefore it can be "taken for granted"

So, how exactly did the author discover why the monkeys where throwing stones? Did he ask them? Do we have not only talking ants, talking monkeys as well. What language did they speak?

Then, do monkeys get married? Oh, btw, there are , I am told "gay" monkeys too. Do they get stoned as well, or do they get hung, as in Iran?

So, it seems monkeys have laws too.

All in Sahih Bukhari, so it forms part of what Muslims are required to believe... :???:

The reality of social and sexual relations among monkeys is very varied and much more mundane... The generally live in groups, and there is a hierarchy, usually enforced by fights... When a dominant male spots another male monkey having sex, he has a habit of getting upset, but mostly with the other male monkey. This almost always results in a chase and a fight between them. Some monkeys also raid other monkey troops and force some of the females in particular to join them, much like some Muslims really...

I have seen monkeys throwing stones or sticks onto snakes, but when they fight each other it is usually a sort of noisy wrestling match, with biting and pinching allowed.

Still the science in Islam never ceases to amaze...

Re: The Stoning of....

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:31 am
by IslamoCritic
It all makes sense (in an Islamic context) when we consider Qur'an 2:65:

And you know well the story of those among you who broke Sabbath. We said to them: "Be apes—despised and hated by all. Thus We made their end a warning to the people of their time and succeeding generation, and an admonition for God-fearing people.


http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-t ... hp#002.065

Here's a Muslim response which makes the connection:

According to `Amr b. Maymûn : "During the days of ignorance before Islam, I saw some monkeys who surrounded a she-monkey who had committed unlawful sexual intercourse and they stoned it, so I stoned it along with them. "

Hadeeth rejectors cite this particular narration to discredit the reliability of the entire hadith collection in general and Sahih al-Bukhari in particular. The objections they raise, in regards to this narration, are as follows:

1. Are monkeys also bound by shariah?

2. The female monkey that was stoned to death should first be proved to married.

3. If the female monkey was stoned, why was the male-monkey let free ?

Now before answering these objections, please consider the details of this incident which is as follows:

"According to `Amr b. Maymûn : I was in Yemen. Amongst the female goats of my people, I saw that at a heightened place, a male monkey brought along a female monkey and slept while keeping her hand beneath his head. During this time, a young monkey came and signaled the female monkey. She softly removed her hand from beneath the male monkey's head and went with the young monkey. She fornicated with him and I was watching it. After that, the female monkey returned and was softly trying to put her hand back under the male monkey's head that he woke up bewildered and smelled her and then screamed. All the monkeys gathered thereafter. He would point towards her and scream constantly (i.e. she has committed adultery). At last the other monkeys went towards the right left and brought along that young monkey whom I recognized. They dug a hole for this young monkey and the female one and stoned them to death. So I saw monkeys stoning to death too besides the human race."

(Taiseer-ul-Baari, volume 2, Page 626)

Before responding to these objections, please kindly refer to the details of the incident, which are as follows:

1. Monkey is the only creation which is closest to human being with respect to senses and consciousness (that is why Darwin and people of his belief regard him as the ancestor of human race) and he also knows how to imitate humans very well.

2. A sect of Bani Israel that disobeyed the law of Saturday was made to be monkeys. (2:25)

3. The penalty for adultery in Bani Israel was stoning to death.

Therefore, it is very much possible that this group of monkeys belonged to the same sect of Bani Israel that was killed after being made a monkey and they had awareness about adultery. The details of this incident as explained in Taiseer-ul-Baari bridge the details of this incident very close to human comprehension. It also answers the objection of :

a, nikah (marriage) -
as the mutual agreement was, in fact, considered nikah (marriage) amongst them

and

b, "why only the female monkey was stoned to death rather than both the male and female being stoned". -

in the original narration of Bukhari, only the female monkey is mentioned. However, from the other detailed narration it is deduced that both were stoned

Now let's bring forth the other aspect of this incident. This incident is in no way attributed to the Prophet (S.A.W). In fact, nor is it even connected to any companion of the Prophet (S.A.W) for that matter. The narrator of this hadith, `Amr b. Maymûn is not a companion of the Prophet (S.A.W); but from amongst the generation after them. Moreover, he's not attributing it to anyone; in fact, he's just narrating an incident he observed with his own eyes. Therefore, accepting this incident as correct is not a part of faith nor rejecting it would expel someone out of the bounds of Islam. (As it has been propagated since the dawn of Islam) we only consider this incident correct to the extent that firstly, it's in accordance with the law of analogy and secondly, the narrators of this incident are trustworthy people.


http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread. ... ost3820282

Re: The Stoning of....

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 am
by Ansar al-Zindiqi
"According to `Amr b. Maymûn : I was in Yemen. Amongst the female goats of my people, I saw that at a heightened place, a male monkey brought along a female monkey and slept while keeping her hand beneath his head. During this time, a young monkey came and signaled the female monkey. She softly removed her hand from beneath the male monkey's head and went with the young monkey. She fornicated with him and I was watching it. After that, the female monkey returned and was softly trying to put her hand back under the male monkey's head that he woke up bewildered and smelled her and then screamed. All the monkeys gathered thereafter. He would point towards her and scream constantly (i.e. she has committed adultery). At last the other monkeys went towards the right left and brought along that young monkey whom I recognized. They dug a hole for this young monkey and the female one and stoned them to death. So I saw monkeys stoning to death too besides the human race."

(Taiseer-ul-Baari, volume 2, Page 626)


The Ballad of Amr bin Maymun