I am a Nazarene

For new members and existing members to get to know each other.
Post Reply
User avatar
Nazarene
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:28 am

I am a Nazarene

Post by Nazarene »

Shalom, Shlama, Sala'am & Hello to all,

I am a Nazarene. What's that? This is how the Church Father Epiphanius of Salamis describes us:
Panarion 29.7.2-4 wrote:...They use not only the New Testament but the Old Testament as well, as the Jews do. They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion – except for their belief in Christ, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that God is one, and that his Son is Jesus Christ... They disagree with Jews because they have come to faith in Christ; but since they are still fettered by the Law – circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest – they are not in accord with the Christians.
And Jerome:
On. Is. 8:14 wrote:The Nazarenes... accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law.
Letter 75 Jerome to Augustine wrote:They believe that Messiah, the son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary.
Basically my sect falls under the classification of "Messianic Judaism". The Nazarene sect was the earliest "Christian" sect, and hence the sect of the Apostles, which was predominent up until the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. While there are few of us left today (after 70 CE most of us were absored into the Assyrian Church of the East), we differ from other Messianic Jews in that:

a) We do not use the Greek New Testament - we use the Aramaic Peshitta, as Aramaic was the language of Yeshua Meshikha (Jesus Christ) and the Apostles. So we feel that the Peshitta is a more accurate representation of the original teachings of the New Covenant. In fact we believe that the Peshitta is the original autograph.

b) We do not hold the "Trinity" doctrine: that God is 3 persons in 1 essence. However we do accept Yeshua Meshikha's divinity, which for us is a separate issue.

So what am I doing here? It is my wish to give all those interested insight into the teachings of the Bible from the original languages of the Prophets & Apostles - Hebrew & Aramaic, which I hope will help to clear up some common misunderstandings. The bulk of my replies on theological issues will be linguistically centred.

To all the Christians here, my fellow brothers & sisters in Messiah, do feel free to ask me anything regarding my beliefs, I'll be happy to explain and clarify them for you.

PS: my signature "Push b'shlama" means "go in peace" in Aramaic.
PPS: my avatar is the abbreviated form of the Sacred Name (YHWH), i.e. "Yah" in Aramaic Estrangela script - the traditional script of the Peshitta.
Push b'shlama.
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 4354
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:31 pm
Location: Arasy

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by SAM »

Nazarene wrote:Shalom, Shlama, Sala'am & Hello to all,

I am a Nazarene. What's that? This is how the Church Father Epiphanius of Salamis describes us:
Panarion 29.7.2-4 wrote:...They use not only the New Testament but the Old Testament as well, as the Jews do. They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion – except for their belief in Christ, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that God is one, and that his Son is Jesus Christ... They disagree with Jews because they have come to faith in Christ; but since they are still fettered by the Law – circumcision, the Sabbath, and the rest – they are not in accord with the Christians.
And Jerome:
On. Is. 8:14 wrote:The Nazarenes... accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law.
Letter 75 Jerome to Augustine wrote:They believe that Messiah, the son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary.
Basically my sect falls under the classification of "Messianic Judaism". The Nazarene sect was the earliest "Christian" sect, and hence the sect of the Apostles, which was predominent up until the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. While there are few of us left today (after 70 CE most of us were absored into the Assyrian Church of the East), we differ from other Messianic Jews in that:

a) We do not use the Greek New Testament - we use the Aramaic Peshitta, as Aramaic was the language of Yeshua Meshikha (Jesus Christ) and the Apostles. So we feel that the Peshitta is a more accurate representation of the original teachings of the New Covenant. In fact we believe that the Peshitta is the original autograph.

b) We do not hold the "Trinity" doctrine: that God is 3 persons in 1 essence. However we do accept Yeshua Meshikha's divinity, which for us is a separate issue.

So what am I doing here? It is my wish to give all those interested insight into the teachings of the Bible from the original languages of the Prophets & Apostles - Hebrew & Aramaic, which I hope will help to clear up some common misunderstandings. The bulk of my replies on theological issues will be linguistically centred.

To all the Christians here, my fellow brothers & sisters in Messiah, do feel free to ask me anything regarding my beliefs, I'll be happy to explain and clarify them for you.

PS: my signature "Push b'shlama" means "go in peace" in Aramaic.
PPS: my avatar is the abbreviated form of the Sacred Name (YHWH), i.e. "Yah" in Aramaic Estrangela script - the traditional script of the Peshitta.
Hello Nazarene, Shalom, Shlama, Sala'am :welcome: Nice to know you...


Interesting. Why the Church Father Epiphanius of Salamis do not hold the Trinity doctrine "God 3 in One". Is it because that Paul the true founder of Churchianity fabricated, contradictions and abrogates the beautiful teachings of Yeshua Meshikha's. :cheers:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
User avatar
expozIslam
Posts: 3114
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:32 pm

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by expozIslam »

Hello Nazarene,
Welcome to FFI and that was quite a big list of differences. What made you join this forum?
“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”
User avatar
Ibn Rushd
Posts: 2126
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:46 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Ibn Rushd »

Hello. Then you are not a member of the Church of the East, or the Syrian Orthodox? Interesting, we have never had anyone with your background.

שָׁלוֹם אָלֱךָ
There is no Master but the Master, and QT-1 is his Prophet.

Asimov's robot story "Reason"
User avatar
Nazarene
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:28 am

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Nazarene »

Thank you all for the warm welcome ;)

Now to your questions & statements:
SAM wrote:Interesting. Why the Church Father Epiphanius of Salamis do not hold the Trinity doctrine "God 3 in One". Is it because that Paul the true founder of Churchianity fabricated, contradictions and abrogates the beautiful teachings of Yeshua Meshikha's. :cheers:
Ephiphanius was in fact a Greco-Roman "Trinitarian" not a Nazarene like me, (note that I'm writing these terms in "inverted commas" because they don't appear anywhere in the Bible), he just simply gave a description of what he heard about us way back then.

As for Paul fabricating the "Trinity" doctrine, if you're referring to the Apostle Paul, this is not case as he never in any of his Epistles says the word "Trinity", and not once does he describe God as consisting of 3 persons in 1 essence. When you study Paul's Epistles in Aramaic, it'll be clear that Paul definitely wasn't "Trinitarian", the man was a Pharisee after all. The "Trinity" doctrine was only developed long after Paul died.
expozIslam wrote:Hello Nazarene,
Welcome to FFI and that was quite a big list of differences. What made you join this forum?
I enjoy inter-faith dialogue and debates, and of general online socializing and this forum has a lot of diversity. I'm also very interested in linguistics and I'm sure this forum will give me ample opportunities for Hebrew, Aramaic & Arabic cognate studies.
Ibn Rushd wrote:Hello. Then you are not a member of the Church of the East, or the Syrian Orthodox? Interesting, we have never had anyone with your background.

שָׁלוֹם אָלֱךָ
No I'm not a member of either church, though most of my ancestors ended up joining the Church of the East after the fall of Jerusalem, as this church was still throughly Jewish at the time. Actually this church is the only ancient Christian community to ever be called "Nazarenes", and to this day have retained more of their "Hebrew roots" than any other church. Here's a good book on the subject: Nestorians or the Lost Tribes. During the 1st century, the Persian empire had a much larger Jewish population than the Roman empire, and while the Romans (prior Constantine) were persecuting their Nazarene (and Jewish) populations, the Parthians tolerated us, Edessa & Adiabene actually took in many Nazarene refugees from the Roman empire. Also the Gospel was more successful among the Mesoptamian & Persian Jews than among the Greco-Roman Jews. So while the Roman church was predominantely gentile by the beginning of the 2nd century, the Persian church remained predominantely Jewish, for about another 200 - 300 years. After this things started changing: Constantine "became" a Christian (or so he said), the stanchley Zoroastrian Sassanids overthrew the Parthians, and persecuted us relentlessly because they were afraid we would ally ourselves with the new "Christian" Roman emporer. Then came the Councils and the split of the Persian church into the Church of the East and the Syrian Orthodox Church due to Greco-Roman influence & interferance.

I do have Assyrian friends who are members of the Church of the East, and what I like about this church is that any baptized Christian may partake of Holy Communion, in the other ancient churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, etc.) they tend to frown upon you taking their Communion if you're not a member. And of course the Church of the East liturgy is perfomed in Yeshua's beautiful language. :*)
Push b'shlama.
yeezevee
Posts: 6547
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by yeezevee »

PS: my signature "Push b'shlama" means "go in peace" in Aramaic. says Nazarene
Image

Image

Aramaic and Arabic languages appears to be close in their script., do you also read/write Arabic language dear Nazarene?? Welcome to ffi anbd let your friends/well wishers know about the FFI and its forum..

with best wishes
yeezevee
User avatar
Nazarene
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:28 am

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Nazarene »

Shlama yeezevee,

Yes that particular Aramaic script, which is called Serto and is used by the Syrian Orthodox Church & Maronite Catholics is based on the Arabic script. However this is not the only script which was used to write Aramaic. The Assyrian Church of the East & Chaldean Catholics use a script called Swadaya, which looks like this:

Image

And before the Persian church split into the ACE & SOC, the script called Estrangela was used. The Apostolic writings were originally transcribed into this script. This is what Estrangela looks like:

Image

And the NT authors wrote in the square "Hebrew" script, like the Dead Sea Scrolls. This script is actually the ancient Assyrian script, as it's proper name is Ktav Asshuri, the Jews picked it up during their Babylonian captivity, prior to this they used the "Paleo Hebrew" script which resembled Phoenician writing.

As to your question. No I can't read & write Arabic but I hope to learn how someday. If you're interested, here's a link to a transliteration of both the Hebrew OT & Aramaic NT in Arabic script: http://sepehr.mohamadi.name/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Let me know what you think. :)

And for anyone interested here are the best online resources for studying Aramaic & the Peshitta:

http://www.peshitta.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (the discussion forum is extremely informative, it's run by an Assyrian Shamasha (Deacon) of the ACE, who is a native Aramaic speaker)
http://www.dukhrana.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Peshitta texts & lexicons including Hassan Bar Bahlul's Aramaic-Arabic-English lexicon)
http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (every Aramaic text under the sun, both Biblical and extra Biblical, plus lexicon representing every Aramaic dialect)

Enjoy!

Shlama w'burkate (peace & blessings).
Push b'shlama.
User avatar
Chief Chingachgook
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 am
Location: My Location

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Chief Chingachgook »

I have never heard of a Nazarene going berserk or impose their beliefs on others or lay claim to the sole truth and that's what matter most.

This planet is full of varieties, classes, categories, colors, families, genomes, gnomes, jinns, SAM and what-have-you. It was meant to be so from the very beginning and that's what makes this planet a beautiful place to live in. NO ONE should lay claim on it just because a deluded schizo criminal purportedly receive instruction from "THE unseen owner" telling him the planet belongs to his followers and that they should strive to be the ruler. No! NEVER have any other gods, godesses, spirits, poltergeists, Caspers instructed anybody thus except Allah who was created by the 20%Profit%.

Welcome to FF forum, errrr.... Nazarene. I am Chief Kafirgook and proud to be one :rock:
I was chingachgook in the old forum. In this new Reservation forum I was made a Chief :whistling:
User avatar
SAM
Posts: 4354
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:31 pm
Location: Arasy

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by SAM »

Nazarene wrote:Thank you all for the warm welcome ;)

Now to your questions & statements:
SAM wrote:Interesting. Why the Church Father Epiphanius of Salamis do not hold the Trinity doctrine "God 3 in One". Is it because that Paul the true founder of Churchianity fabricated, contradictions and abrogates the beautiful teachings of Yeshua Meshikha's. :cheers:
Ephiphanius was in fact a Greco-Roman "Trinitarian" not a Nazarene like me, (note that I'm writing these terms in "inverted commas" because they don't appear anywhere in the Bible), he just simply gave a description of what he heard about us way back then.

As for Paul fabricating the "Trinity" doctrine, if you're referring to the Apostle Paul, this is not case as he never in any of his Epistles says the word "Trinity", and not once does he describe God as consisting of 3 persons in 1 essence. When you study Paul's Epistles in Aramaic, it'll be clear that Paul definitely wasn't "Trinitarian", the man was a Pharisee after all. The "Trinity" doctrine was only developed long after Paul died.
Question:Is there are any ancient Jewish writings that pertain to the "Trinity". I'm curious to know. :cool:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
User avatar
Maersk
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:32 pm
Location: Mecca

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Maersk »

And Modk, for all his claims that he was contacted by Gabriel, could not tell his Muslims what happened to Mary and why Mary was used in his scheming ways to be the Best Deceiver. We have Fake Jesus from Allah, why not Islam claiming there was a fake Mary as well. Its deception would be more complete. So, what happened to Mary according to the idiots of Islam? :lotpot:
User avatar
Nazarene
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:28 am

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Nazarene »

SAM wrote:Question:Is there are any ancient Jewish writings that pertain to the "Trinity". I'm curious to know. :cool:
No, none at all. The term "Trinity" was first coined by Tertullian, who was not Jewish but a convert to Christianity from Greco-Roman paganism. Ironically though Tertullian is not regarded as a saint by any church.

The Shema declares that God is one:

{Deuteronomy 6:4} Listen, Israel, YHWH is our God, YHWH is one.

Hope that helped :cool:
Push b'shlama.
User avatar
Nazarene
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:28 am

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Nazarene »

Chief Chingachgook wrote:I have never heard of a Nazarene going berserk or impose their beliefs on others or lay claim to the sole truth and that's what matter most.

This planet is full of varieties, classes, categories, colors, families, genomes, gnomes, jinns, SAM and what-have-you. It was meant to be so from the very beginning and that's what makes this planet a beautiful place to live in. NO ONE should lay claim on it just because a deluded schizo criminal purportedly receive instruction from "THE unseen owner" telling him the planet belongs to his followers and that they should strive to be the ruler. No! NEVER have any other gods, godesses, spirits, poltergeists, Caspers instructed anybody thus except Allah who was created by the 20%Profit%.

Welcome to FF forum, errrr.... Nazarene. I am Chief Kafirgook and proud to be one :rock:
Pleased to meet you Chief Kafirgook :hug: I'm guessing you're Chinese, am I close?
Push b'shlama.
Gabriel
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:17 am

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Gabriel »

Hi Nazarene! :welcome:
User avatar
Nazarene
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:28 am

Re: I am a Nazarene

Post by Nazarene »

Shlama Gabriel, thank you for the welcome and pleased to meet you too :hug:
Push b'shlama.
Post Reply