Peace be upon me

[except a few]

Hi all,

All praise and glory be to Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. Peace and blessing be upon my beloved Prophet Muhammad.

I'm already expecting to get grilled left and right in this forum by simply by mentioning the above. Being a Muslim is enough reason to get mocked and ridiculed here. After all, everything is predestined, even the condition of Muslims getting ridiculed and mocked simply because they choose to become Muslims is clearly mentioned in the Holy Quran. In a way, I see the prophesies in the Holy Quran played out in this forum.

Looking forward to see more of what Allah mentions in the Holy Quran come to pass

[ygalg]

welcome to our humble den

[charleslemartel]

Hi all,

All praise and glory be to Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. Peace and blessing be upon my beloved Prophet Muhammad.

I'm already expecting to get grilled left and right in this forum by simply by mentioning the above. Being a Muslim is enough reason to get mocked and ridiculed here. After all, everything is predestined, even the condition of Muslims getting ridiculed and mocked simply because they choose to become Muslims is clearly mentioned in the Holy Quran. In a way, I see the prophesies in the Holy Quran played out in this forum.

Looking forward to see more of what Allah mentions in the Holy Quran come to pass

Welcome to FFI, EAF.

Muslims are not grilled because they praise Allah or love Muhammad. They are grilled because they think Muhammad was the al-insaan-al-kaamil when we can all see that he committed too many crimes to be called a uswa hasana. They are grilled because, they believe Quran to be the word of Allah which is full of hatred for non Muslims and exhorts Muslims to fight them till no other religion than Islam is left on earth. They are grilled because they cannot reason and do not understand logic.

For example, your short post contains a contradiction. Did you know that? Of course not, as if you knew you wouldn't have posted that. Here is the contradiction:

You say everything is predestined, and then you say Muslims choose to be Muslims. Choosing something is an act of freewill which goes against the concept of "predestined". Do you get the point now?

[except a few]

For example, your short post contains a contradiction. Did you know that? Of course not, as if you knew you wouldn't have posted that. Here is the contradiction:

You say everything is predestined, and then you say Muslims choose to be Muslims. Choosing something is an act of freewill which goes against the concept of "predestined". Do you get the point now?

I have to agree on that.

It's true that everything is predestined. I truly believe the fact that 'I will choose to become a Muslim' has been written in the Book of Life (Lauh-ul Mahfuz) long before the creation of Adam. What I'm saying is that the events unfolding in today's world further strengthened my faith that The Holy Quran is truly the word of God(Allah)

I have to disagree when you say

they believe Quran to be the word of Allah which is full of hatred for non Muslims and exhorts Muslims to fight them till no other religion than Islam is left on earth.

because the Quran never mentions such. The Quran only tells the Muslims to fight off those who opposes Islam, never to harm those who are indifferent about Islam

[charleslemartel]

For example, your short post contains a contradiction. Did you know that? Of course not, as if you knew you wouldn't have posted that. Here is the contradiction:

You say everything is predestined, and then you say Muslims choose to be Muslims. Choosing something is an act of freewill which goes against the concept of "predestined". Do you get the point now?

I have to agree on that.

It's true that everything is predestined. I truly believe the fact that 'I will choose to become a Muslim' has been written in the Book of Life (Lauh-ul Mahfuz) long before the creation of Adam. What I'm saying is that the events unfolding in today's world further strengthened my faith that The Holy Quran is truly the word of God(Allah)

If everything is predestined, then Allah is the topmost sadist and the most cruel being. He predestined kafirs not to believe, and then he is going to roast them in hellfire for eternity. Can you tell me what is the crime of kuffar then?

I have to disagree when you say

they believe Quran to be the word of Allah which is full of hatred for non Muslims and exhorts Muslims to fight them till no other religion than Islam is left on earth.

because the Quran never mentions such. The Quran only tells the Muslims to fight off those who opposes Islam, never to harm those who are indifferent about Islam

No, Quran mentions it clearly; perhaps you do not know your Quran properly. Here it is:

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

There are many other such verses too.

[except a few]

If everything is predestined, then Allah is the topmost sadist and the most cruel being. He predestined kafirs not to believe, and then he is going to roast them in hellfire for eternity. Can you tell me what is the crime of kuffar then?

Someone need not be a worldly criminal (murderer, thief etc) to be in hellfire. Someone can simply die while associating partners with Allah, and he/she has already booked a ticket for eternal hell. The sin of associating partners with Allah is eternally unforgivable.

No, Quran mentions it clearly; perhaps you do not know your Quran properly. Here it is:

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

There are many other such verses too.

Those verses mentions that nonbelievers should be subdued, which is true. Nonbelievers are no better than believers, of course they should feel subdued by Muslims. Being subdued is different from being killed indiscriminately

[charleslemartel]

If everything is predestined, then Allah is the topmost sadist and the most cruel being. He predestined kafirs not to believe, and then he is going to roast them in hellfire for eternity. Can you tell me what is the crime of kuffar then?

Someone need not be a worldly criminal (murderer, thief etc) to be in hellfire. Someone can simply die while associating partners with Allah, and he/she has already booked a ticket for eternal hell. The sin of associating partners with Allah is eternally unforgivable.

How can that be unforgivable if I am already destined by your Allah to shirk? The responsibility lies with Allah and not myself. I hope you see the contradiction and obfuscation in your posts which are the main reasons the Muslims are grilled left and right.

No, Quran mentions it clearly; perhaps you do not know your Quran properly. Here it is:

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

There are many other such verses too.

Those verses mentions that nonbelievers should be subdued, which is true. Nonbelievers are no better than believers, of course they should feel subdued by Muslims. Being subdued is different from being killed indiscriminately

Allah has predestined you to be a Muslim and me to be a kafir; it is solely his doing. Then why should I be subdued by you? Moreover, he is going to punish me in hell forever for what he predestined me to do. And now he also wishes you to subdue me? How many times is he going to punish me for following his predestination? Is he just, or is he a sadist?

[skynightblaze]

Someone need not be a worldly criminal (murderer, thief etc) to be in hellfire. Someone can simply die while associating partners with Allah, and he/she has already booked a ticket for eternal hell. The sin of associating partners with Allah is eternally unforgivable.

Who predestined that i become a kafir? The answer is Allah. Now can I work against something that Allah has already decided ? The answer is no. SO who is the culprit here? Allah or me? Think for yourself.Allah first predestines me to become a non believer and then punishes me for not believing. ISnt this psychopath stuff? This is like king cutting the feet of his subjects and asking them to run and when they dont run burn them in fire.

Anyways welcome to FFI friend. Make yourself comfortable here. You will see that most of the questions that we ask about islam have no answers not because muslims are not good debators but because there are no answers to the logical fallacies that muhhamad committed.Its nothing that you guys can do. If we are to reverse the situation i.e you ask us to defend islam and you ask the same questions to us then we would not be able to defend it as it is not possible to defend lies.

[expozIslam]

Does this not mean that allah/mohammad is a racist pig? He has predestined some of us to be muslims( to be in paradise with 72 vigins) and others to be kuffar(fuel for hell fire).

[except a few]

How can that be unforgivable if I am already destined by your Allah to shirk? The responsibility lies with Allah and not myself.

This is where you get confused. The responsibility still lies with you. The same with Muslim's responsibility to uphold prayer 5 times a day. A Muslim does not declares himself a Muslim and automatically wish to be in Heaven when he himself abandons all his responsibilities to Allah (prayer, zakat, hajj etc). Every soul has their own responsibilities, including you. I will never know your ultimate fate, whether you will become a Muslim in the future or you stay a non-Muslim till death. So, I cannot pinpoint you as destined for heaven or hell until your death. If you die a Muslim, you're destined for heaven. If you die a kafir, it'll be hell. I dont know, only Allah knows.

Allah has predestined you to be a Muslim and me to be a kafir; it is solely his doing. Then why should I be subdued by you?

Those who refuse to submit themselves to Allah must be subdued by those who submit themselves to Allah. It is Allah's will, and His will be done.

Moreover, he is going to punish me in hell forever for what he predestined me to do. And now he also wishes you to subdue me? How many times is he going to punish me for following his predestination? Is he just, or is he a sadist?

He is All-Just. Those who refuse submission to Allah will feel subdued by those who do submit to Allah.

Looks just to me.

[sunshine]

Except a few says
"if you die a Muslim you are destined to paradise. if you die a kafir it will be hell, i dont know ONLY ALLAH KNOWS."
A classic muslim answer to deny the truth.
But unfortunately this is not an ISLAMIC FORUM, you came here to show us the truth about Islam. So for that you will have to answer the question asked to you directly rather than beating around the bush (which is in fact Muslims are very good at). So Leave that 7th century Phrase of yours in the trashbin and be brave enough to explain the issue in hand.

[except a few]

Who predestined that i become a kafir? The answer is Allah. Now can I work against something that Allah has already decided ? The answer is no.

True

SO who is the culprit here? Allah or me?

You. Every soul is responsible for its well-being. Those who refuses Allah's word for the well-bring of their soul is clearly harming themselves. You can become a Muslim, but you choose not to.

Think for yourself.Allah first predestines me to become a non believer and then punishes me for not believing. ISnt this psychopath stuff? This is like king cutting the feet of his subjects and asking them to run and when they dont run burn them in fire.

Allah does predestined you to become a nonbeliever up to this moment, but what happens afterwards I will never know. There's lots and lots of people who embraces Islam after years of being a kafir. Whether you will eternally be a kafir or will soon embrace Islam I will never know, only Allah knows.

Anyways welcome to FFI friend. Make yourself comfortable here. You will see that most of the questions that we ask about islam have no answers not because muslims are not good debators but because there are no answers to the logical fallacies that muhhamad committed.Its nothing that you guys can do. If we are to reverse the situation i.e you ask us to defend islam and you ask the same questions to us then we would not be able to defend it as it is not possible to defend lies.

Thanks for the warm welcome. Actually, a hot welcome is more befitting for my situation

Does this not mean that allah/mohammad is a racist pig? He has predestined some of us to be muslims( to be in paradise with 72 vigins) and others to be kuffar(fuel for hell fire).

Allah is One and the same with the God of Abraham (God of Israel, Joseph, Moses, David etc). Its true that Allah favors the Bani Israel over all universe, favoring those who loves Him the most over those who don't. It's not racism, its how Allah demonstrates His Majesty and Power

[expozIslam]

Allah is One and the same with the God of Abraham (God of Israel, Joseph, Moses, David etc). Its true that Allah favors the Bani Israel over all universe, favoring those who loves Him the most over those who don't. It's not racism, its how Allah demonstrates His Majesty and Power

I am yet to come across allah and love in the same sentence. Anyway, why does allah have to show his power and majesty and to whom? to us humans? isn't that stupid and shallow of allah or may be it is not allah it is mohammad who desired that but then going by your arguments so far, nothing better can be expected and it is futile to discuss with you anything. Even ants and pigs use more brain power than you are using.

[except a few]

going by your arguments so far, nothing better can be expected and it is futile to discuss with you anything.

Let's first try discussing something before reaching any conclusion. It's funny how you prematurely come to this conclusion

[debunker]

Welcome EAF,

I just wanted to note that so far, reading only 6 of your posts, you kind of remind me of another Muslim member in this forum who left voluntarily, his name is "Enlightened". Do you, by any chance, know him?

I'm debunkER by the way

[Faruq]

Does this not mean that allah/mohammad is a racist pig? He has predestined some of us to be muslims( to be in paradise with 72 vigins) and others to be kuffar(fuel for hell fire).

No. Allah has given you a choice. If you take any other deity beside Allah, you will be a toast. No doubt about that.

Do you believe that YHWH and Jesus were also pigs.

[natural_person]

Who predestined that i become a kafir? The answer is Allah. Now can I work against something that Allah has already decided ? The answer is no.

True

SO who is the culprit here? Allah or me?

You. Every soul is responsible for its well-being. Those who refuses Allah's word for the well-bring of their soul is clearly harming themselves. You can become a Muslim, but you choose not to.

Think for yourself.Allah first predestines me to become a non believer and then punishes me for not believing. ISnt this psychopath stuff? This is like king cutting the feet of his subjects and asking them to run and when they dont run burn them in fire.

Allah does predestined you to become a nonbeliever up to this moment, but what happens afterwards I will never know. There's lots and lots of people who embraces Islam after years of being a kafir. Whether you will eternally be a kafir or will soon embrace Islam I will never know, only Allah knows.

Anyways welcome to FFI friend. Make yourself comfortable here. You will see that most of the questions that we ask about islam have no answers not because muslims are not good debators but because there are no answers to the logical fallacies that muhhamad committed.Its nothing that you guys can do. If we are to reverse the situation i.e you ask us to defend islam and you ask the same questions to us then we would not be able to defend it as it is not possible to defend lies.

Thanks for the warm welcome. Actually, a hot welcome is more befitting for my situation

Does this not mean that allah/mohammad is a racist pig? He has predestined some of us to be muslims( to be in paradise with 72 vigins) and others to be kuffar(fuel for hell fire).

Allah is One and the same with the God of Abraham (God of Israel, Joseph, Moses, David etc). Its true that Allah favors the Bani Israel over all universe, favoring those who loves Him the most over those who don't. It's not racism, its how Allah demonstrates His Majesty and Power

Is this for real ?? Deductive logic ?? What kind of an answer is this ?? This is sheer stupidity - there's no other expression to be used !!

[except a few]

Welcome EAF,

I just wanted to note that so far, reading only 6 of your posts, you kind of remind me of another Muslim member in this forum who left voluntarily, his name is "Enlightened". Do you, by any chance, know him?

I'm debunkER by the way

Nope

No. Allah has given you a choice. If you take any other deity beside Allah, you will be a toast. No doubt about that.

True

Do you believe that YHWH and Jesus were also pigs.

I believe that YHWH is Allah and Jesus is one of the prophets of Allah

Allah does predestined you to become a nonbeliever up to this moment, but what happens afterwards I will never know.

Is this for real ?? Deductive logic ?? What kind of an answer is this ?? This is sheer stupidity - there's no other expression to be used !!

Yes, this is for real.

[Maersk]

Yes ... according to Allah, or more specifically Modk, Jesus is a Pig or a descendant of Pigs. Only an Arab camel herder like Moprofit would know better who's a pig and who to ape.

[skynightblaze]

Who predestined that i become a kafir? The answer is Allah. Now can I work against something that Allah has already decided ? The answer is no.

True

Since you agree with me here you should have agreed with me in the further part too. Lets see where you went wrong.

SO who is the culprit here? Allah or me?

You. Every soul is responsible for its well-being. Those who refuses Allah's word for the well-bring of their soul is clearly harming themselves. You can become a Muslim, but you choose not to.

IF every soul is responsible for his destination i.e hell or heaven then how can that thing be predestined ? It means my destination depends on my choice and it isnt predestined. ITs either predestined OR I have a choice to decide upon my destiny. YOu are committing here a logical fallacy. Let me explain with you an example. IF i want to eat the cake can I keep the cake? or if i want to keep the cake can i eat it ? Both these activities cannot co exist .

Similarly If something is predestined then I do not have any choice because i cant change what Allah has predestined.So if allah predestines me going to hell or heaven then i have no choice OR IF i have a choice then it cannot be predestined Now since it is predestined by Allah himself surely Allah is to be blamed because while its decided by Allah I am not even born.SO how can you blame me?

Think for yourself.Allah first predestines me to become a non believer and then punishes me for not believing. ISnt this psychopath stuff? This is like king cutting the feet of his subjects and asking them to run and when they dont run burn them in fire.

Allah does predestined you to become a nonbeliever up to this moment, but what happens afterwards I will never know. There's lots and lots of people who embraces Islam after years of being a kafir. Whether you will eternally be a kafir or will soon embrace Islam I will never know, only Allah knows.

SO you agree that its Allah who decides whether i should remain a kafir forever or not. IF that is the case then why should humans be blamed for the decision that Allah takes? The point is Quran is not the word of GOd otherwise we would not be faced with such logical blunders.Muhhammad didnt think properly about these logical problems and thats why we see islamic concept of GOD simply doesnt make sense.

Anyways welcome to FFI friend. Make yourself comfortable here. You will see that most of the questions that we ask about islam have no answers not because muslims are not good debators but because there are no answers to the logical fallacies that muhhamad committed.Its nothing that you guys can do. If we are to reverse the situation i.e you ask us to defend islam and you ask the same questions to us then we would not be able to defend it as it is not possible to defend lies.

Thanks for the warm welcome. Actually, a hot welcome is more befitting for my situation

I understand your emotions. You are bit a nervous i guess about people attacking your faith. Relax and take your own time to settle. Eventually you will get accustomed to this place.