spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

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ecks_why
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:00 pm

spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by ecks_why »

Hello All :D

Here is a project I'm planning and wondering about market demand ? Would this project be useful or interesting for many people ? Having all the koran data in spreadsheets is very flexible for programming.

Microsoft Excel spreadsheet:
1. rows for all verse references from Koran
2. columns for categories
3. simple sql schema normalized etc

internet widget:
1. read xls
2. sql queries for verses categories etc
3. get internet data

This will be a fun project. Very useful for quickly generating support statistics like:

koran is 5% religion
5% positive moral ethics
20% unstable
70% politics including diplomacy and war

send message if interested :cool:
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ecks_why
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:00 pm

Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by ecks_why »

more info :) ordered a koran book oxford publishing, already have a christian bible ignatius revised standard version & index etc

expand the spreadsheet data for judaism torah 5 books and xnity new testament 27 books, use jscript, xml, jet drivers already have several small projects running using this kind of code, read the books, assign verses to categories, then write a nice polemic paper describing the results :)

here are the 10 categories (current guess)
morality - positive, negative, neutral
religion - faith, works
politics - diplomacy, war, history, legal
misc - anything else goes here

the categories determine what kind of reports are available from the spreadsheet data and should yield some interesting results. the torah, new testament & koran are not too many pages, so reading & categorizing should be doable in a few months, and can include the spreadsheet data with the paper for validating

stay tuned !!
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ecks_why
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Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by ecks_why »

so how many pages are these texts ? the ignatius rsv bible (small font not much white space) has about 240 pages for xtian new testament and about 190 pages for 1st 5 books in old testament (same as torah except jewish xlates are different but i don't know how much). the koran is supposed to be about 4/5 size of xtian nt so in same format would be about 200 pages. different formats can greatly expand the number of pages i've seen xtian bibles where nt texts are 350 pages with bigger fonts, subnotes, lots of white space, pictures etc. i've already read the xtian stuff a few times but this project gives me a reason to read the evil koran :)

also looks like data stored in jet sql database for querying so the queries can combine categories like "all verses with politics+legal" etc. the xls spreadsheets might be used for exporting data for presentations. after some reviewing of new testament & torah it looks like the categories need refining :) getting the categories "right" likely will take a few passes over the text. here's current list of categories which will probably change again after reading koran etc

history, prophecy
legal
politics
theology
miracle
teaching
imperative
caring, violence
reward, punishment
believers, non-believers
health
morality
uncategorized
testimony ?
misogyny ?
literal, symbolic ?

the trick with the categories is to somehow represent all this oddball religious text in a uniform hopefully neutral manner and still be able to have good info for queries like how much text devoted to theology, teaching, punishment, rewards etc
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ecks_why
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Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by ecks_why »

woo hoo i finished reading the 1st pass thru the koran :shock: what a load of repetitive, rambling, muddled drivel. granted writing quality is not an indicator of divine status, but mohamheads 2 main strategies in dealing with unbelievers who doubted, criticized & ridiculed his b.s. were to threaten them and when that didn't work, kill them because mo didn't have any special powers to do miracles or predict future events.

anyway the project is moving forward :) i'm working on the documentation, designing sql schemas, queries, data utilities etc. next step is to read spencer's politically incorrect guide to koran :D review the categories again and start reading the torah & new testament for a small sample to get things running
Wootah
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:41 am

Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by Wootah »

Good luck with it all!
mehamgul101

Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by mehamgul101 »

i must say to you good luck
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enceladus
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Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by enceladus »

ecks_why wrote:Hello All :D

Here is a project I'm planning and wondering about market demand ? Would this project be useful or interesting for many people ? Having all the koran data in spreadsheets is very flexible for programming.
(snip)


Yes, it should indeed be useful. Good on you for doing this!
- enceladus
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ecks_why
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Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by ecks_why »

thanks for reading :) after some effort i decided to reduce the project scope to just the koran but likely still a few months schedule

i read the new testament matthew & about 1/2 of mark, setting categories from a list of 19 and the process seemed too generic and lost too much info. i'd already read the xtian texts several times but actually assigning categories to each verse required some fun thinking but very time consuming. it was looking like the paper describing torah, newts & koran categories would be interesting but not quite what i wanted.

so now i'm starting a 2nd pass thru the evil koran LOLOLOL using pickthalls translation which is more concise and harsh. haleem is good for more modern language & spin issues too. i want a better tailored list of categories to describe the koran which will make writing the results easier.

the database stuff is still on track that is a key feature :) and minimal effort compared to reading & categorizing
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Ansar al-Zindiqi
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Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by Ansar al-Zindiqi »

Cool! Keep up the good work. :)
Don't be a believer but a heretic unto yourself.
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ecks_why
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Re: spreadsheet for koran verses indexed with categories

Post by ecks_why »

thanks for all the support but sadly this project is winding down as i cannot justify the time & effort required to finish it. next time i will explore further before starting projects conceived during friday nite party sessions :D :D

some post mortem notes...

1. i did learn much and read the koran about 3 times. what a pile of drivel, how that assclown mohamhead managed to convince people to follow him based on those b.s. rantings is beyond my understanding. i guess it was an unfortunate set of coincidences that led to this scourge of islam being inflicted on humanity as i am certainly
not convinced in any way about mo's claims for divine status. all that idiot could do was talk, no miracles, no healings, no prophecies, nothing but hot air and alot of it, altho he must get some credit for his warlord skills.

2. perhaps if i was a student doing this project for class credit or a mooselimb expressing affection about my (delusional) faith, then it would have been worthwhile but i'm not either of those. i wanted some reasonably good quality apologetics that would be
useful to people & then i could take the show on the road and post it at various jewish & xtian forums, but again, the likely results i was seeing from the category approach would have been a big "so what" especially compared to the already existing info etc

3. the biggest problem i could not resolve was how to get the category approach to yield some kind of useful results. there is already a huge quantity of excellent apologetics info about islam at many websites (like here ffi, islam-watch.org answering-islam.org
prophetofdoom.net islamreview.com politicalislam.com skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran etc) and my little efforts would have only added some background noise to this material.

4. i was using 4 benchmarks for comparsion with the category approach: the verse listings at prophetofdoom.net and skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran, the statistical approach used at politicalislam.net, the koran topic indexes at answering-islam.org and islamicity.com and the fisher topical paper at answering-islam.org. the stuff at politicalislam.net is very well written but the graphs are based on some kind of "sampling" from the koran & hadiths, ie. they did not read the entire texts and classify each verse, instead they randomly(?) sampled the verses and then classified them. for some reason they do not give the details of how this sampling was done, was every 3rd verse checked ? was a random number generator used ? this methodology hiding is very irritating but nonetheless their resulting agitprop is superb :)

5. 1 category structure i was trying had 7 high level categories - mohamhead, theology, legal, believers, unbelievers, jews & xtians, women. and then underneath these categories were 2 more different structures i tried, 1 was based on generic issues like violence, intimidation, repression, prosperity, charity etc and the other was based on frequently recurring phrases in the koran like unbelievers are doomed, unbelievers will be burnt in hell fire, judgement day hour, gardens in the afterlife for believers etc. the koran is very repetitive and many phrases were appearing literally dozens of times.

6. what i was hoping for with the category approach was to define the category structure, read the koran, assign 1 or more categories to each verse, get this data into a database, and then do queries to produce statistical tables like:
6237 koran verses in pickthalls translation -
mohamhead - 1302 verses or x%
theology - 2523 verses or y%
legal - 1487 verses or z%
etc

7. the basic categorizing for the 7 top level categories would have been easy enough to do end to end including all the database stuff because i wrote some little helper programs to automate the drudgery work, but the final result seemed like a yawner. so the koran is classified in 7 categories and has these percentages big deal. from politicalislam.com
their results said about 65% of the koran verses are about unbelievers, and from what i read this seems accurate, altho i didn't actually count them all etc.

8. the real problem happens with how to extend the 7 top level categories and still use a database. adding more subcategories based on recurring phrases in the koran pushes this approach towards textual analysis, ie. devoid of much apologetics info, and adding
more subcategories based on generic issues pushes this approach towards apologetics, but then the database isn't really needed, because religious people only need 1 gdamn verse in their gdamn holy books to mount crusades so who really cares if the koran has 20, 40, or 250 verses about killing unbelievers ? just looking at the secular history of this societal cancer shows the truth about islam, and alot of database categorizing is not needed etc

9. so this was a fun & educational project was but it just wasn't worth the time & effort to do the database stuff, write a paper etc. now i need to find some other project :) :)
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